Page 2 of 16 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 381

Thread: Best Outfield Arm Ever:

  1. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Mt. View, CA, above San Jose
    Posts
    18,230
    Blog Entries
    1
    I do remember how Willie turned and threw to 2nd base, from 460 feet out, and he threw so hard, he actually fell down. And the ball got to 2nd before anyone could advance on the play. Now that's one mighty peg!

    I had also completely forgotten about Carl Furillo. He was supposed to carry a cannon on his shoulder.

    By the way, do we have any support for today's top guys, Jones, Hunter, Edmonds, Kotsay, Cameron? Looks like Ichiro/Guerrero have some nice support.

    What about Snider, Kaline, Ott, Virdon? Anyone heard/saw/read anything?
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 01-28-2006 at 11:30 AM.

  2. #27
    Yeah, I'll give a vote for Edmonds as 2nd best CF arm, behind Mays, have seen him make some incredible throws. Kaline's been mentioned by a couple of us. I'm curious about Snider, I know he was a pretty good CFer, don't know much about his arm strength.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    12,515
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by 64Cards
    Yeah, I'll give a vote for Edmonds as 2nd best CF arm, behind Mays, have seen him make some incredible throws. Kaline's been mentioned by a couple of us. I'm curious about Snider, I know he was a pretty good CFer, don't know much about his arm strength.
    Edmonds ahead of Andruw?
    "Everyone left here, but I remain at my post, documenting my sports writers and photos. I don't do Ty Cobb anymore. I did for him everything I could do. Work will live on. Personalities will fade.

    Fever members come and go. Not relevant. Your documentations will live FOREVER, my brother. That outweighs all the Fever jack-asses. Ignore what you must, document all you can."
    - Bill Burgess

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by BoSox Rule
    Ichiro's arm is so strong, but is also unbelievably accurate.
    Remember the throw when he got Terrance Long on third in his rookie season ? This will be the example for a perfect outfield assist for many years. The only comparable I know was Ferguson nailing that sprinter at home in the 74 series.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Western Massachusetts
    Posts
    11,560
    Quote Originally Posted by william_burgess@usa.net
    I do remember how Willie turned and threw to 2nd base, from 460 feet out, and he threw so hard, he actually fell down. And the ball got to 2nd before anyone could advance on the play. Now that's one mighty peg!

    I had also completely forgotten about Carl Furillo. He was supposed to carry a cannon on his shoulder.

    By the way, do we have any support for today's top guys, Jones, Hunter, Edmonds, Kotsay, Cameron? Looks like Ichiro/Guerrero have some nice support.

    What about Snider, Kaline, Ott, Virdon? Anyone heard/saw/read anything?
    Bill, I haven't seen nearly as many players as most others on here, but one guy who I've always heard older fans rave about is Jesse Barfield. I was surprised to see him not on your list. Most people who I've talked to have always cited him as having the best arm they're ever seen.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Mt. View, CA, above San Jose
    Posts
    18,230
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by 538280
    Bill, I haven't seen nearly as many players as most others on here, but one guy who I've always heard older fans rave about is Jesse Barfield. I was surprised to see him not on your list. Most people who I've talked to have always cited him as having the best arm they're ever seen.
    I've never even heard of him. I didn't watch baseball from 1966-early 80's.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Western Massachusetts
    Posts
    11,560
    Quote Originally Posted by william_burgess@usa.net
    I've never even heard of him. I didn't watch baseball from 1966-early 80's.
    Barfield was more of a mid to late 80s player. He was a right fielder mostly known for his throwing arm, universally regarded as the best in baseball. He also had very good power leading the league in home runs in 1986. He didn't have a good batting average though. To leave him out of discussions of the best outfield arms of all time is unfair. From what info I've gathered (statistical and anecdotal) he has had the best arm of the past 25 years, probably the past 50 years, by a wide margin.

  8. #33
    shlevine42 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by william_burgess@usa.net
    I do remember how Willie turned and threw to 2nd base, from 460 feet out, and he threw so hard, he actually fell down. And the ball got to 2nd before anyone could advance on the play. Now that's one mighty peg!

    I had also completely forgotten about Carl Furillo. He was supposed to carry a cannon on his shoulder.

    By the way, do we have any support for today's top guys, Jones, Hunter, Edmonds, Kotsay, Cameron? Looks like Ichiro/Guerrero have some nice support.

    What about Snider, Kaline, Ott, Virdon? Anyone heard/saw/read anything?
    I don't recall Ott or Virdon being credited with unusually strong arms.

    Snider had a decent arm, but Furillo set the standard for powerful, accurate arms in that era. The Pirates' Mel Queen once singled to right against the Dodgers, and Carl threw him out before Queen could reach first.

    I think he threw better than Mays and Clemente.

    Furillo's throws were low, straight and hard, and when I threw with him at Dodger Camp in 1986, they still burned my hand.

    And he was 64 at the time.

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    portland oregon, baseball country
    Posts
    127

    juan pierre + andruw jones

    he is as good as they comes. saw him make a spectacular throw to home against the senators last year.

    clemente for sure.

    wondering about reggie jackson when he was with the a's.

    best all time, not sure i am qualified to say, but here's a stab:

    mays
    snider
    mantle
    musial
    aaron
    joe jackson

    and nowadays, wow, that andruw jones is something else. I saw him play against the giants. he was fantastic. what a jump he got on every hit. a natural. one of the best in the game.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    mariners country
    Posts
    23,570
    --Barfield by a wide margin? Barfield is one of the top half dozen or so outfield arms of my lifetime (which still is short of 50 years). Kaline and Clemente were the great ones when I first started watching. Reggie Jackson and Reggie Smith were the guys who wowed me the most as a kid fan though. Dave Parker came along a little later and had a great arm. Dwight Evans and Dave Winfield were probably just a little behind the guys previously mentioned. Barfield might have had a little more zip than those guys, but he didn't exactly make me thinkign I was seeing something new.
    --Ichiro actually doesn't have quite the pure arm strength (although he doesn have an outstanding arm) as any of the guys I mentioned above. What makes him great is he always gets in a good throwing position, plus he is very accurate (certainly moreso than Clemente, Jackson or Smith). Vlad clearly has the stronger arm, but is not nearly as accurate (or smart) about using it, although he has improved his accuracy as he aged. If Barfield was the best arm of the modern era it was because he had both the cannon and the accuracy

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    270 miles East of the Arch
    Posts
    5,653
    Pretty much everyone has been mentioned so far, but another incredible arm from the modern game was Mark Whiten. Cardinals and Indians, maybe a few others.

    His throws from Right Field to Third were incredible... in that they really did not lose much altitude from one point to the other. When sitting in the box seats, especially on the first base side, his arm was something to behold.

    Certianly not in Clemete, or Ichiro's league, but worth a mention.
    "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Logan, OH
    Posts
    1,649
    Among current guys, Wily Mo Pena may well have the strongest throwing arm. Unfortunately for us Reds fans, he hasn't a clue where its going!

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    mariners country
    Posts
    23,570
    --Whiten is easy to forget because his throwing was the only thing great about him. He had a hard time just getting a starting job. That said, he probably DID have as good an arm as anybody else.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Western Massachusetts
    Posts
    11,560
    Quote Originally Posted by leecemark
    --Barfield by a wide margin? Barfield is one of the top half dozen or so outfield arms of my lifetime (which still is short of 50 years). Kaline and Clemente were the great ones when I first started watching. Reggie Jackson and Reggie Smith were the guys who wowed me the most as a kid fan though. Dave Parker came along a little later and had a great arm. Dwight Evans and Dave Winfield were probably just a little behind the guys previously mentioned. Barfield might have had a little more zip than those guys, but he didn't exactly make me thinkign I was seeing something new.
    I said the best by a wide margin over the past 25 years, or since 1980. That would take guys like Kaline and Clemente out. Both Reggies were in decline by then also. I never saw Barfield, so I can't say first hand but Jesse does do better statistically than Parker, Evans, Winfield, Ichiro, and Guerrero:

    Ass./162 gm.
    Barfield-18.92
    Guerrero-14.04
    Parker-12.41
    Evans-11.85
    Winfield-10.89
    Ichiro-10.22

    THR+ (stat in Baseball Encyclopedia which is supposed to give an accurate measure of a player's throwing ability)

    Barfield-176
    Guerrero-131
    Evans-103
    Ichiro-103
    Parker-101
    Winfield-92

    I don't have that much confidence in these measures, but when they show Barfield to be this far ahead I have to pretty much give in to the evidence.

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Sunny Sweden
    Posts
    1,635
    Quote Originally Posted by west coast orange and black
    jesse barfield
    roberto clemente
    dwight evans
    vladimir guerrero
    andruw jones
    willie kirkland
    garry maddox
    willie mays
    dave parker
    ichiro suzuki
    Garry Maddox!!! How could I forget?! BIG kudos to you for reminding me, West Coast, thanks a s***load- the 76 batting race was the first one I ever followed closely (I was 9) and still one of the best- and I mean either AL or NL (although AL went to the last game), but Maddox, man, that man had the arm of a generation. Can't say whether it was better than Evans or not, but when it's that good, what's the difference?

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Mt. View, CA, above San Jose
    Posts
    18,230
    Blog Entries
    1
    I added Vladimir Guerrero, Jesse Barfield, Carl Furillo.

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by leecemark
    --Whiten is easy to forget because his throwing was the only thing great about him.
    Mark Whiten isn't easy to forget.

    He hit 4 homeruns and drove in 12 runs in one game. That tied the alltime record, which only Jim Bottomley has equaled over the course of 370,000 games played in Major League history.

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    mariners country
    Posts
    23,570
    --And yet I had forgotten he did that. I guess he had an interesting, if not very good career.

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by 538280
    I don't have that much confidence in these measures, but when they show Barfield to be this far ahead I have to pretty much give in to the evidence.
    There are multiple sources of valid evidence.

    You don't have to give in to the statistical evidence if you're cognizant of the fact that assists can be very misleading. Jeff Francoeur and Brad Hawpe led all major league right fielders in assists last year, and they played 67 and 89 games, respectively. People almost certainly ran on them because they felt as if they could. That doesn't necessarily mean they have tremendous arms, but on paper (especially given the assists/game) they look like must have outstanding throwing arms.

    This is one case where the currently used method of statistical analysis is very much inept, and expert eyewitness opinion is what we need to defer to.

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    12,515
    Blog Entries
    1
    1. Barfield
    2. Meusel
    3. Ichiro
    4. Clemente
    5. Evans
    6. Guerrero
    7. Andruw
    8. Shoeless
    9. Mays
    10. Ruth
    11. Mondesi
    12. Parker
    13. Winfield
    14. Hooper
    15. Cravath
    16. Ott
    17. Speaker
    "Everyone left here, but I remain at my post, documenting my sports writers and photos. I don't do Ty Cobb anymore. I did for him everything I could do. Work will live on. Personalities will fade.

    Fever members come and go. Not relevant. Your documentations will live FOREVER, my brother. That outweighs all the Fever jack-asses. Ignore what you must, document all you can."
    - Bill Burgess

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Mt. View, CA, above San Jose
    Posts
    18,230
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Sultan_1895-1948
    1. Barfield
    2. Meusel
    3. Ichiro
    4. Clemente
    5. Evans
    6. Guerrero
    7. Andruw
    8. Shoeless
    9. Mays
    10. Ruth
    Nice work, Randy. I think that's a very good shot. Thanks. Got most of the usual suspects. No love for Carl Furillo?

    BB

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    12,515
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by william_burgess@usa.net
    Nice work, Randy. I think that's a very good shot. Thanks. Got most of the usual suspects. No love for Carl Furillo?

    BB
    Just sorta spat them out in the order I thought. Of course there's tons of room for shuffling, but that should be the main ones. West Coast did hit on a few that might belong in there somewhere, and this Furillo fellow of yours perhaps as well.

    Tought list to put in order due to the lack of actual evidence. Equivalent to a list of the greatest bunters of all time. Did the greatest bunters actually bunt the most often, and how often did the defense take away a great bunters main weapon.
    "Everyone left here, but I remain at my post, documenting my sports writers and photos. I don't do Ty Cobb anymore. I did for him everything I could do. Work will live on. Personalities will fade.

    Fever members come and go. Not relevant. Your documentations will live FOREVER, my brother. That outweighs all the Fever jack-asses. Ignore what you must, document all you can."
    - Bill Burgess

  23. #48
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Western Massachusetts
    Posts
    11,560
    Quote Originally Posted by csh19792001
    There are multiple sources of valid evidence.

    You don't have to give in to the statistical evidence if you're cognizant of the fact that assists can be very misleading. Jeff Francoeur and Brad Hawpe led all major league right fielders in assists last year, and they played 67 and 89 games, respectively. People almost certainly ran on them because they felt as if they could. That doesn't necessarily mean they have tremendous arms, but on paper (especially given the assists/game) they look like must have outstanding throwing arms.

    This is one case where the currently used method of statistical analysis is very much inept, and expert eyewitness opinion is what we need to defer to.
    Assists aren't perfect, I never said they are. Jeff Francoer and Brad Hawpe actually have already earned reputations around baseball for having very strong arms.

    But, in this case where Barfield is so much better than everyone else I think it had better take A LOT of expert opinion to change my mind that he had the best outfield arm of the past 25 years by a wide margin. From what I've read, expert opinion seems to support that conclusion anyway.

    One interesting thing I've heard is how people are starting to use sac flies allowed to judge an outfielders throwing arm. Intutively, I would think that is a good way to measure it. What do you guys think?

  24. #49
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Western Massachusetts
    Posts
    11,560
    Quote Originally Posted by Sultan_1895-1948
    10. Ruth
    Ruth, Sultan? Maybe I should put Reggie Jackson in my top 10. (Really, Reggie was known to have a quick zip type throw in his younger years. He led the league in assists four times. Putting him in the top 20 wouldn't be such a stretch).

    Ruth did have a very good arm when younger I know, but from what I've read he lost that ability real quick. There's no way he had a better arm than guys like Hooper, Parker, and Winfield. Even if his arm was just as good or better than those guys for a few years, he didn't stay there.

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    12,515
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by 538280
    Ruth, Sultan? Maybe I should put Reggie Jackson in my top 10. (Really, Reggie was known to have a quick zip type throw in his younger years. He led the league in assists four times. Putting him in the top 20 wouldn't be such a stretch).

    Ruth did have a very good arm when younger I know, but from what I've read he lost that ability real quick. There's no way he had a better arm than guys like Hooper, Parker, and Winfield. Even if his arm was just as good or better than those guys for a few years, he didn't stay there.
    Like I said, I threw those out there. Ruth would belong in the top 15 for sure though. Where did you read that he lost his arm? He actually maintained his arm rather well even though he lost a few steps beginning in '29. His arm was very strong, very accurate, and he never threw to the wrong base. This shouldn't be up for debate, but since you wanna make it one, show your sources my good little buddy.
    "Everyone left here, but I remain at my post, documenting my sports writers and photos. I don't do Ty Cobb anymore. I did for him everything I could do. Work will live on. Personalities will fade.

    Fever members come and go. Not relevant. Your documentations will live FOREVER, my brother. That outweighs all the Fever jack-asses. Ignore what you must, document all you can."
    - Bill Burgess

Page 2 of 16 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •