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Thread: What to expect this year from Coco Crisp...

  1. #1
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    What to expect this year from Coco Crisp...

    I hope we can put the issue of "hype" on ice long enough to discuss realistic projections for the coming season. Between those who have seen him in action before and those who rely more on the stats there should be some material for discussion. What do you all expect out of his bat, out of his glove, and out of his health?

    I tend to think he'll bat lead-off or perhaps second and will end up stealing more bases than management will be looking for. I can only suppose that his arm will be stronger than the noodle that hangs from Damon's shoulder. Despite the topographical hazards, I think he'll play a solid CF in Fenway, the question is if he can play a fine CF-CLF.

    Thoughts?

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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashGordon
    I hope we can put the issue of "hype" on ice long enough to discuss realistic projections for the coming season. Between those who have seen him in action before and those who rely more on the stats there should be some material for discussion. What do you all expect out of his bat, out of his glove, and out of his health?

    I tend to think he'll bat lead-off or perhaps second and will end up stealing more bases than management will be looking for. I can only suppose that his arm will be stronger than the noodle that hangs from Damon's shoulder. Despite the topographical hazards, I think he'll play a solid CF in Fenway, the question is if he can play a fine CF-CLF.

    Thoughts?
    .400 BA
    53 HRs
    213 RBIs
    80 Steals

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Boxer
    .400 BA
    53 HRs
    213 RBIs
    80 Steals
    With expectations like that, it's no wonder you find me depressing.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleX
    With expectations like that, it's no wonder you find me depressing.

  5. #5
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    Exclamation

    Id personnally think he'd :

    -bat around 295
    -hit more than 150 hits
    -hit more than 10 HRs
    -steel 20 bases
    and that he'd have more than 55 RBIs

  6. #6
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    My biggest concern is what will he do in the outfield? I'd like to see if he can patrol such a large area.

    Also stressed is that he'll be essentially the outfield captain, as he's in CF. He'd have to deal with Manny and Nixon out there, so I'm very eager to see what happens.

    I presume he'll do good, but it remains to be seen.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by FlashGordon
    I hope we can put the issue of "hype" on ice long enough to discuss realistic projections for the coming season. Between those who have seen him in action before and those who rely more on the stats there should be some material for discussion. What do you all expect out of his bat, out of his glove, and out of his health?

    I tend to think he'll bat lead-off or perhaps second and will end up stealing more bases than management will be looking for. I can only suppose that his arm will be stronger than the noodle that hangs from Damon's shoulder. Despite the topographical hazards, I think he'll play a solid CF in Fenway, the question is if he can play a fine CF-CLF.

    Thoughts?
    I think Crisp will bat leadoff, as long as that doesn't go horrendously wrong.

    I agree about the basestealing...I think Boston will have a hard time reigning him in on it, as I think Boston likes to do. Crisp isn't the smartest baserunner yet, but he'll still take more bags than management expects.

    His arm is comparable to Damon's from what I hear, but he does have some youth on his side, so hopefully, it will be somewhat better.

    I think Boston will be hellbent on teaching Crisp some patience at the plate, to increase his walk %, and I think he'll respond. For all the talk about how poor his OBP is, has anyone else checked out Crisp's OBP split home/away last season? In Cleveland, Crisp sported a lousy .319 OBP; on the road, he pumped that up to a .370. Hopefully, Fenway Park will stay under that "away" category. I also love that fact that Crisp, when he hits, will find himself at 2nd base more often than Damon did. Follow him up in the lineup with Loretta, Ramirez and Ortiz (with Crisp already in scoring position, and with hisspeed)...well, I like it.

    I also think Crisp will do fine in center field. He clearly has the range, and I think his defensive numbers there so far are indicative of a raw, undeveloped player. I don't think he's going to set the world on fire with his defense, but I also can't be the only one who was starting to notice some rough edges on Damon out there.

    In conclusion, I think we'll draw close to even on defense with Crisp instead of Damon, and I think we'll lose a bit on BA and overall savvy at the plate (patience and "2-strike" stamina), but gain a bit of power from the leadoff man. We'll also gain the upside of having a significantly younger player at a significantly lower price.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattingly
    Also stressed is that he'll be essentially the outfield captain, as he's in CF. He'd have to deal with Manny and Nixon out there, so I'm very eager to see what happens.
    Do you think he'll have to call off Manny on very many flyballs?!


  9. #9
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    Arrow Healthy!

    Team needs healthy people. Nixon healthy. Does Crisp have a history of bumping into walls and people like Damon? Completely unrelated: my Uncle likes him for the name alone.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousBoston
    Team needs healthy people. Nixon healthy. Does Crisp have a history of bumping into walls and people like Damon? Completely unrelated: my Uncle likes him for the name alone.

    From what I understand, Crisp has a tendency to go all out to make a play. He's not a guy who's afraid to run into something.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxSon
    Do you think he'll have to call off Manny on very many flyballs?!

    Ohhhhhhhh gawshkies.

    Just when I'm thinking that I'm finally in the groove with Sawx Nation, I finally realize I've outthought myself.

    In that case, he'd still need to play some LF after all.
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  12. #12
    .310/.370/.470 with 20 HR and above average defense in CF. About 7-7.5 wins.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxSon
    From what I understand, Crisp has a tendency to go all out to make a play. He's not a guy who's afraid to run into something.
    He can't possibly be as "all-out" as Eric Byrnes, could he? Nobody could be that intent upon getting to a ball.
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  14. #14
    I expect Crisp's power to go up a little this year, but his BA to go slightly down. I also think he'll steal 15-20 bases. Crisp has speed, but Boston is not much of a running team, and like Soxson said, Crisp doesn't have great instincts on the basepaths (and that might never develop, for instance, Bernie Williams in his younger days had terrific speed, was probably the fastest guy on team once he got going, he just had bad instincts, and thus he was never really a threat to steal more than 15 bases).

  15. #15
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    I know I've heard somewhere that some Boston coaches were supposed to be working with him? Is that an outfield coach and a batting coach? Any word of plans they'd had for him?
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  16. #16
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    Here's his splits 2005, including by park:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/player...ting&year=2005
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattingly
    Here's his splits 2005, including by park:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/player...ting&year=2005
    He hit very poorly at Fenway last year, but the sample is very small, only 10 ABs. In all, his road numbers were better than his home numbers, so perhaps leaving Cleveland will give his numbers a nice boost.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleX
    He hit very poorly at Fenway last year, but the sample is very small, only 10 ABs. In all, his road numbers were better than his home numbers, so perhaps leaving Cleveland will give his numbers a nice boost.
    Quote Originally Posted by SoxSon
    For all the talk about how poor his OBP is, has anyone else checked out Crisp's OBP split home/away last season? In Cleveland, Crisp sported a lousy .319 OBP; on the road, he pumped that up to a .370. Hopefully, Fenway Park will stay under that "away" category.
    They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...

  19. #19
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    What I don't get is why the Red Sox traded for him in the first place. Wasn't Kelly Schoppach a couple of years ago supposed to be the second coming of Carlton Fisk? Isn't Ande Marte supposed to be another Mike Schmidt? Why would you give up such once in a lifetime prospects for a run of the mill CF'er? Am I crazy, or wouldn't those two guys (not to mention Mota) be enough to land the Sox a CF like Andruw Jones or Jim Edmonds? What am I missing?
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleX
    He hit very poorly at Fenway last year, but the sample is very small, only 10 ABs. In all, his road numbers were better than his home numbers, so perhaps leaving Cleveland will give his numbers a nice boost.
    <Invisible to Red Sox Nation>Unfortunately he hit very well at Yankee Stadium</Invisible to Red Sox Nation>.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElHalo
    What I don't get is why the Red Sox traded for him in the first place. Wasn't Kelly Schoppach a couple of years ago supposed to be the second coming of Carlton Fisk? Isn't Ande Marte supposed to be another Mike Schmidt? Why would you give up such once in a lifetime prospects for a run of the mill CF'er? Am I crazy, or wouldn't those two guys (not to mention Mota) be enough to land the Sox a CF like Andruw Jones or Jim Edmonds? What am I missing?
    Simple: you've gotta have someone play CF, and I can't think of anyone more highly-rated that could've played. Vernon Wells is staying, since Toronto is upgrading. Aaron Rowand was traded, so that takes him off the market. You know anyone that's both better and available whom you can name?

    Neither Shoppach nor Marte have proven much in the bigs, and that's who they had to trade. If not, Cleveland might've looked elsewhere. I think it's called "overpaying with players".

    As to Andruw or Edmonds, they obviously weren't available, anymore than Vlad nor Pujols were available in a Manny trade.
    Last edited by Mattingly; 02-05-2006 at 05:55 PM.
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  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by ElHalo
    Wasn't Kelly Schoppach a couple of years ago supposed to be the second coming of Carlton Fisk?
    He was projected to be solid, but come on, we both know nobody ever mentioned these two in the same breath.

  23. #23
    Oh, and yeah, 10 AB's at Fenway Park is REAL significant.

  24. #24
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    From Lee Sinins here:

    http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=38981
    Code:
    SHOPPACH
    YEAR  AGE RCAA   OBA  SLG   OPS   OWP    RC/G  AVG   HR  RBI   SB   G   TEAM
    2005   25   -3  .063  .000  .063  .000   0.00  .000   0    0    0    9  Red Sox      
    CAR         -3  .063  .000  .063  .000   0.00  .000   0    0    0    9 
    LG AVG       0  .331  .425  .756  .500   4.89  .268   1    3    0 
    POS AVG      0  .316  .394  .710  .429   4.16  .258   1    2    0
    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/player...e?statsId=7493

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/shoppke01.shtml
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  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by BoSox Rule
    He was projected to be solid, but come on, we both know nobody ever mentioned these two in the same breath.
    I don't know if he was ever compared to Fisk, but I do remember him being a very highly touted prospect and largely regarded as the best in baseball a few years back.

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