Frank Thomas for HOF?! HA!

**futurehalloffamer** · 03-01-2006, 11:23 AM

I can't believe how much support that guy gets on these boards! After signing with the A's, he said that he believes there is no doubt he'll make the HOF even if he doesn't reach 500 HRs. He's a HOF joke! He had a few great seasons (ok, he was one of the best players in the game for a while) but then he switched to DH and STILL manages to get hurt on a regular basis. He couldn't even play in the World Series when Chicago finally got there again! And his numbers are really not that great, especially when he is known almost exclusively for his offense. I mean, even ELHALO, Mr. "Reggie Jackson, Robin Yount, Paul Molitor, Kirby Puckett, Ryne Sandberg, etc. don't belong in the Hall" has called Thomas a "lock" in other threads! I mean, even his managers are so fed up with his lack of playing that they wanted to get rid of him! Hall of Famer, I don't think so! (And who's idea was it to try to start a "Who's the better hitter?" poll between him and Lou Gehrig? Did you really think that would even be close?)

**Honus Wagner Rules** · 03-01-2006, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by futurehalloffamer

I can't believe how much support that guy gets on these boards! After signing with the A's, he said that he believes there is no doubt he'll make the HOF even if he doesn't reach 500 HRs. He's a HOF joke! He had a few great seasons (ok, he was one of the best players in the game for a while) but then he switched to DH and STILL manages to get hurt on a regular basis. He couldn't even play in the World Series when Chicago finally got there again! And his numbers are really not that great, especially when he is known almost exclusively for his offense. I mean, even ELHALO, Mr. "Reggie Jackson, Robin Yount, Paul Molitor, Kirby Puckett, Ryne Sandberg, etc. don't belong in the Hall" has called Thomas a "lock" in other threads! I mean, even his managers are so fed up with his lack of playing that they wanted to get rid of him! Hall of Famer, I don't think so! (And who's idea was it to try to start a "Who's the better hitter?" poll between him and Lou Gehrig? Did you really think that would even be close?)

Umm...He had more just a "few" great seasons. Try an entire decade. Also he won two MVP awards and in his prime was often referred as "The right-handed Ted Williams". That's high praise if you ask me. If you don't think he's a HOF then I don't know what to say you.

**Tigerfan1974** · 03-01-2006, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Honus Wagner Rules

Umm...He had more just a "few" great seasons. Try an entire decade. Also he won two MVP awards and in his prime was often referred as "The right-handed Ted Williams". That's high praise if you ask me. If you don't think he's a HOF then I don't know what to say you.

If you think he is, I don't know what to say to you?
I agree his is NOT HoF material. I guess we just have a difference of opinion and viewpoint, despite whatever others might throw in from sabermetrics.

**Honus Wagner Rules** · 03-01-2006, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Tigerfan1974

If you think he is, I don't know what to say to you?
I agree his is NOT HoF material. I guess we just have a difference of opinion and viewpoint, despite whatever others might throw in from sabermetrics.

Is Jeff Bagwell a Hofer? Why isn't Thomas a HoFer?

**futurehalloffamer** · 03-01-2006, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Honus Wagner Rules

Umm...He had more just a "few" great seasons. Try an entire decade. Also he won two MVP awards and in his prime was often referred as "The right-handed Ted Williams". That's high praise if you ask me. If you don't think he's a HOF then I don't know what to say you.

Hmm...a full decade and two MVP awards...sounds alot like Dale Murphy if you ask me. And comparing Thomas to Williams was always a joke. Dwight Gooden was compared to Koufax at one time, let's put him in there too, eh?!

**DoubleX** · 03-01-2006, 11:37 AM

I agree that Thomas is at times overhyped on these boards, but there is not a doubt in my mind that he is a Hall of Famer. For a decade, the guy was one of the best hitters to have played. I have him ranked 6th all-time at 1B, and had he spent more time in the field and less at DH, I'd bump him as high as 3rd. If you don't think he's a Hall of Famer, then you must have a short memory. Picture what Albert Pujols is doing now, and then add 10 points of OPS+, and that's what you get for Thomas for about a decade.

**Honus Wagner Rules** · 03-01-2006, 11:38 AM

Here are all the HoF first baseball:

Cap Anson
Jake Beckley*
Jim Bottomley*
Dan Brouthers *
Orlando Cepeda *
Frank Chance *
Roger Connor *
Jimmie Foxx
Lou Gehrig
Hank Greenberg *
George Kelly *
Harmon Killebrew*
Buck Leonard
Willie McCovey
Johnny Mize
Eddie Murray
Tony Perez *
George Sisler
Bill Terry *

I count about 11 HoF first basemen that Thomas is clearly better.

**futurehalloffamer** · 03-01-2006, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Honus Wagner Rules

Is Jeff Bagwell a Hofer? Why isn't Thomas a HoFer?

Well, much like Thomas, Bagwell was injured quite ofter, but Bagwell STILL has more HRs than Thomas and was actually able to PLAY when his team finally made the WS. I know its ridiculous to compare HR totals, but batting is really all you can discuss when Frank Thomas is the issue.

**Honus Wagner Rules** · 03-01-2006, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by futurehalloffamer

Hmm...a full decade and two MVP awards...sounds alot like Dale Murphy if you ask me. And comparing Thomas to Williams was always a joke. Dwight Gooden was compared to Koufax at one time, let's put him in there too, eh?!

Dale Murphy and his career .262 BA? Give me a break. Dwight Gooden has nothing to do with this discussion. For a while Gooden was that good anyway.

**Honus Wagner Rules** · 03-01-2006, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by futurehalloffamer

Well, much like Thomas, Bagwell was injured quite ofter, but Bagwell STILL has more HRs than Thomas and was actually able to PLAY when his team finally made the WS. I know its ridiculous to compare HR totals, but batting is really all you can discuss when Frank Thomas is the issue.

Though Bagwell was the better overall player, Thomas was the better hitter. Also first base is not a key defensive position.

**futurehalloffamer** · 03-01-2006, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Honus Wagner Rules

Here are all the HoF first baseball:

Cap Anson
Jake Beckley*
Jim Bottomley*
Dan Brouthers *
Orlando Cepeda *
Frank Chance *
Roger Connor *
Jimmie Foxx
Lou Gehrig
Hank Greenberg *
George Kelly *
Harmon Killebrew*
Buck Leonard
Willie McCovey
Johnny Mize
Eddie Murray
Tony Perez *
George Sisler
Bill Terry *

I count about 11 HoF first basemen that Thomas is clearly better.

Ah, Honus Wagner must be turning in his grave right about now with you using his name like that...to consider Thomas a first baseman is ridiculous...how long was he a first baseman as opposed to DH?

**Brooklyn** · 03-01-2006, 11:44 AM

disregard this post, mis-read an earlier one.

**RuthMayBond** · 03-01-2006, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Tigerfan1974

If you think he is, I don't know what to say to you?
I agree his is NOT HoF material. I guess we just have a difference of opinion and viewpoint, despite whatever others might throw in from sabermetrics.

48th most RBI ever
47th most XBH ever
34th most Runs Created ever
30th most HR ever
17th most BB ever
15th best SLG ever
14th best OPS+ ever
13th best OBP ever
11th best OPS ever

**abacab** · 03-01-2006, 11:56 AM

Thomas is the best hitting 1B since World War II. Not a Hall of Famer? Okay, if your Hall of Fame has about 50 players total, you could leave him out.

**Tigerfan1974** · 03-01-2006, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Honus Wagner Rules

Here are all the HoF first baseball:

Cap Anson
Jake Beckley*
Jim Bottomley*
Dan Brouthers *
Orlando Cepeda *
Frank Chance *
Roger Connor *
Jimmie Foxx
Lou Gehrig
Hank Greenberg *
George Kelly *
Harmon Killebrew*
Buck Leonard
Willie McCovey
Johnny Mize
Eddie Murray
Tony Perez *
George Sisler
Bill Terry *

I count about 11 HoF first basemen that Thomas is clearly better.

I don't see how one can think Thomas is better than Greenberg? better than Killebrew?
I 'll give you Cepeda and Perez as I think they are borderline anyway.

But I feel neither Thomas, nor Bagwell, nor Will Clark (from the other thread) will make the Hall. The next 1st baseman will be McGwire. After that, who knows?

**Imapotato** · 03-01-2006, 12:34 PM

A HOF 1b that couldn't even throw the ball to second base

Welcome to the new HOF

**abacab** · 03-01-2006, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by Imapotato

A HOF 1b that couldn't even throw the ball to second base

Welcome to the new HOF

Yeah, Thomas was a terrible 1B, no doubt about that. What if you consider him a DH instead? He's better than Molitor for sure.

**RuthMayBond** · 03-01-2006, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Tigerfan1974

I 'll give you Cepeda and Perez as I think they are borderline anyway.

Are you "giving him" George Kelly, or is Frank Thomas no George Kelly?

<But I feel neither Thomas, nor Bagwell will make the Hall.>

Wow, not even Bagwell, but you think Mickey "15 black ink" Lolich should. How about Aurelio Rodriguez, Mark Fidrych, Ron Leflore, Mickey Stanley?

**KCGHOST** · 03-01-2006, 12:52 PM

If Thomas is not good enough tobe in the HoF we may as well hold the balloting about every ten years. That's how high you will have set the bar.

**BoSox Rule** · 03-01-2006, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by Imapotato

A HOF 1b that couldn't even throw the ball to second base

Welcome to the new HOF

I agree. The new Hall of Fame is a joke.

There is no room for a guy who has hit .307/.427/.568 in his career, with a .344 Equivalent Average, 448 HR, and 115 wins above replacement. It's embarassing.

**Mike D.** · 03-01-2006, 12:52 PM

Through 2005, Thomas had played 971 games at first, 960 at DH.

His rate stats are .307/.427/.568.

Even a repeat of last year (34 games) numbers would give him over 450 HR, 450 2b's, and 1500 RBI for his career.

His defense wasn't great, but he still managed a .991 FP for his career, probably not the worst among HOF 1b.

And if you want to look at him as a DH, he's still better than Molitor, and Edgar Martinez, another DH who'll be eligible in a couple years.

**Mike D.** · 03-01-2006, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by BoSox Rule

I agree. The new Hall of Fame is a joke.

Yeah, I miss the good old days, when being friends with HOF'ers on the Vets Committee was enough to get you in!

**Tigerfan1974** · 03-01-2006, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by RuthMayBond

Are you "giving him" George Kelly, or is Frank Thomas no George Kelly?

<But I feel neither Thomas, nor Bagwell will make the Hall.>

Wow, not even Bagwell, but you think Mickey "15 black ink" Lolich should. How about Aurelio Rodriguez, Mark Fidrych, Ron Leflore, Mickey Stanley?

Sarcasm? I thought you would just swamp the thread with a bunch of sabermetrics. (yes, I know, that is sarcasm too)

**Mike D.** · 03-01-2006, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by futurehalloffamer

Well, much like Thomas, Bagwell was injured quite ofter, but Bagwell STILL has more HRs than Thomas and was actually able to PLAY when his team finally made the WS. I know its ridiculous to compare HR totals, but batting is really all you can discuss when Frank Thomas is the issue.

Bagwell is injured quite often? Other than strike shortened years, he's played less than 142 games exactly ONCE (last year), and usually was in the 150's and 160's.

Bagwell has exactly ONE more home run than Thomas. That's a big difference?

Bagwell pinch hit a few times in ONE WS at the end of his career (going 1-8), and it gives him a big advantage over Thomas?

Personally, I'll be shocked if both don't go...with McGwire, they're really the big 3 First Baseman of the time.