Worst Trades

[Dougman59]

Quick addition: In 1988 Twins traded popular Tom Brunansky after coming off the World Series win for Tom Herr who Twins played in the WS. Herr hated it here and played average to below average in 1988 and left. Bruno was big part of the heart and soul of that loose Twins group.

I think the worst twins trade is the Craig Nettles trade after the 1969 season. Although they made the playoffs the next year, they only got half a season out of Titant and one and half out of journeyman Stan Williams. Keeping Nettles they could have a regular 3rd baseman for the next 10+ years.

[josh24]

Jay Buhner traded by the New York Yankees with a player to be named later and Rich Balabon (minors) to the Seattle Mariners for a player to be named later and Ken Phelps. The New York Yankees sent Troy Evers (minors) (October 12, 1988) to the Seattle Mariners to complete the trade.

[dgarza]

A young Cupid Childs traded by the Boston Reds to the Cleveland Spiders for Paul Radford and Cub Stricker (both were out of the game in 3-4 years).
Childs went of to post these NL numbers for the next 12 years as a 2B:
.302/.414/.380 - OPS+ 114

[dgarza]

George Stone traded by the Boston Americans with cash to the St. Louis Browns for Jesse Burkett.

Stone became a 143 OPS+ OFer while Burkett gave Boston just 1 last year, batting .257.

[Iron Jaw]

In 1971, they lost their ace pitcher from 1970, Jim Merritt

your post was an excellent summary but I would never refer to Jim Merritt as an ace. 20 game wins notwithstanding, his ERA and hits to IP ratio was awful

what does that make 1973 Ron Bryant? an all-timer?

He was the second starter in the rotation that season, and the workhorse of the staff. He was, essentially, an "ace" because he consistently won and completed more starts than anyone. Gary Nolan was really their best pitcher, but he did spend an awful lot of time nursing injuries in his career, although in 1970 he was able to start 37 games. Merritt led the team in wins the previous season as well, when Nolan was out with injuries for much of the year.

When the 1970 World Series rolled around, Merritt was not healthy. Ace or not, they had a very difficult time replacing him. They finally let him start a game and he was blown out.

[Iron Jaw]

[B]]

Clay Carroll was not a member of the 1976 Reds

Clay was with the Reds from 1968-75 and was one of their prime relief pitchers during that period - and with the regular injuries to the starting staff, all of the relief staff was very important. The Reds won 4 pennants from 1970-76 and one additional division title. Clay was on the team for 3 of those World Series trips and the division title.

My point about the Reds from 1970-76 was more about the Reds not hurting themselves with the trade. Stupid trade - no doubt. But the Reds would not have won the pennant from 1966-69 with or without Frank Robinson. They just did not have the pitching, primarily because of constant injuries to the staff. The Red ace, Jim Maloney was injured in 1969. Youngster like Gary Nolan and Mel Queen showed great promise when they joined the rotation in 1967, but Nolan became injury prone and Queen never really recovered from his 1968 injury. They dabbled and dealt. Throwing in pitcher such as George Culver, Jerry Arrigo and washed up Tony Cloninger into the rotation. In the 70's, they had the combo of sufficient starting pitchers along with excellent relief pitching.

[9RoyHobbsRF]

He was the second starter in the rotation that season, and the workhorse of the staff. He was, essentially, an "ace" because he consistently won and completed more starts than anyone. Gary Nolan was really their best pitcher, but he did spend an awful lot of time nursing injuries in his career, although in 1970 he was able to start 37 games. Merritt led the team in wins the previous season as well, when Nolan was out with injuries for much of the year.

When the 1970 World Series rolled around, Merritt was not healthy. Ace or not, they had a very difficult time replacing him. They finally let him start a game and he was blown out.

Merritt's rank on the Reds 1970
most Wins 1st
most Losses 1st
lowest ERA among top 5 starters 5th
game started 2nd
complete games 1st
shutouts tied 4th
innings pitched 2nd
most hits allowed 1st
most runs allowed 1st
most earned runs allowed 1st
most home runs allowed 2nd
fewest BBs allowed among starters 1st
most strikeouts 2nd
lowest WHIP among starters 3rd of 5

I do not see anything remotely resembling an ace

injuries always hurt a pitching staff, that does not convert someone into an ace

[Iron Jaw]

Saying that the trade didnt hurt the Reds is well, putting it pretty nicely. That would be like saying if my brother burned to death it didnt hurt me. Frank obviously was still at the pinnicle of his career and who knows how the Reds would have done with him ON their team - especially in 1970 as you pointed out because they met in the Classic.

G Man

I often wonder how the Orioles would have done if they had not made the trade.

The 1966 Orioles had injuries to their starting rotation, primarily their ace, Steve Barber and could have used a Pappas.

But -would their hitting have been substantial enough without a triple crown winner?

The outfield would have been Blefary, with Blair and Snyder holding down full-time roles instead of platooning.

Then again, the Orioles were biting at the top for much of the 60's. Frank was that key that finally got them over the top.

[9RoyHobbsRF]

Clay was with the Reds from 1968-75 and was one of their prime relief pitchers during that period - and with the regular injuries to the starting staff, all of the relief staff was very important. The Reds won 4 pennants from 1970-76 and one additional division title. Clay was on the team for 3 of those World Series trips and the division title.

My point about the Reds from 1970-76 was more about the Reds not hurting themselves with the trade. Stupid trade - no doubt. But the Reds would not have won the pennant from 1966-69 with or without Frank Robinson. They just did not have the pitching, primarily because of constant injuries to the staff. The Red ace, Jim Maloney was injured in 1969. Youngster like Gary Nolan and Mel Queen showed great promise when they joined the rotation in 1967, but Nolan became injury prone and Queen never really recovered from his 1968 injury. They dabbled and dealt. Throwing in pitcher such as George Culver, Jerry Arrigo and washed up Tony Cloninger into the rotation. In the 70's, they had the combo of sufficient starting pitchers along with excellent relief pitching.

the point is

Robinson and Alexander easily beat out Pappas and Carroll

the Reds got fleeced

[Iron Jaw]

Merritt's rank on the Reds 1970
most Wins 1st
most Losses 1st
lowest ERA among top 5 starters 5th
game started 2nd
complete games 1st
shutouts tied 4th
innings pitched 2nd
most hits allowed 1st
most runs allowed 1st
most earned runs allowed 1st
most home runs allowed 2nd
fewest BBs allowed among starters 1st
most strikeouts 2nd
lowest WHIP among starters 3rd of 5

I do not see anything remotely resembling an ace

injuries always hurt a pitching staff, that does not convert someone into an ace

Who would you call their "ace" then? Or their "stopper." Nolan? Perhaps. Certainly not McGlothlin. Or Simpson who missed the last two months of the season. Or Cloninger.

Jim was consistent. I would call him the ace of that staff, at the time. Stats are not everything. Without Merritt, I doubt the Reds would have been the 1970 NL Champ or winner of the West.

[9RoyHobbsRF]

I often wonder how the Orioles would have done if they had not made the trade.

The 1966 Orioles had injuries to their starting rotation, primarily their ace, Steve Barber and could have used a Pappas.

But -would their hitting have been substantial enough without a triple crown winner?

The outfield would have been Blefary, with Blair and Snyder holding down full-time roles instead of platooning.

Then again, the Orioles were biting at the top for much of the 60's. Frank was that key that finally got them over the top.

they probably would have won the pennant in 1964 had Powell not been injured and limited to barely 400 AB

[9RoyHobbsRF]

Who would you call their "ace" then? Or their "stopper." Nolan? Perhaps. Certainly not McGlothlin. Or Simpson who missed the last two months of the season. Or Cloninger.

Jim was consistent. I would call him the ace of that staff, at the time.

some staffs dont have aces or stoppers

the 1970 Reds are a prime example

[Gee Walker]

For the worst trade in Tigers' history - worse than Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz and worse than Don Demeter for Jim Bunning...

The Tigers acquired Aaron Robinson - your basic 33 year old backup catcher - for Billy Pierce. Oh, and the Tigers threw in $10,000 to even up the deal, I guess...

[RuthMayBond]

Note: Foster has one MVP trophy not two,

but look at these developments

1971 George Foster traded to Reds
1974 traded Bobby Bonds to Yankees
1975 Dave Kingman sold to the Mets
1975 traded Garry Maddox to Phillies
1976 let Gary Mathews go as a free agent

in 1977 Foster hit .320 and had 52 HR and was named MVP
in 1977 Bonds hit .264 with 37 HR
in 1977 Maddox hit .292 with 14 HR and won a gold glove
in 1977 Mathews hit .283 with 17 HR
in 1977 Kingman hit .221 with 20 HR

the 1977 Giants outfield had
a guy who hit .252 with 13 HR, a guy who hit .285 with 7 HR and a guy who hit .267 with 8 HR

in 1979 Kingman hit .288 with 48 HR
in 1979 Foster hit .302 with 30 HR (although he missed 40 games)
in 1979 Mathews hit .304 with 27 HR
in 1979 Bonds hit .275 with 25 HR
in 1979 Maddox hit .281 with 14 HR and won a gold glove

in 1979 the Giants outfield had
a guy who hit .287 with 5 HR, a guy who hit .259 with 5 HR and a guy who hit .273 with 26 HR

You're not ...
COMPARING player statistics, are you?

[RuthMayBond]

some staffs dont have stoppers

the 1970 Reds are a prime example

If TWO guys with 84+ IP each, 16+ saves each and 2.66 ERAs or lower don't count

[Iron Jaw]

[B]
and you could add the wins that Doyle Alexander got for the O's after they acquired him from the Dodgers for Robby, including his contributions to two division champions

Doyle never quite lived up to his potential as an Oriole. He was 42-43 overall in six seasons, doing much of his work as a spot-starter.

However, when the O's traded Doyle to the Yankees, they picked up Rick Dempsey, Scott McGregor, Tippy Martinez, Rudy May and Dave Pagan.

Some of those names would be very important in the Oriole pennants of 1979 and 1983.

Actually, I think trading Frank Robinson to the Dodgers hurt the Orioles in 1972. After breezing to three straight AL pennants, the Oriole regulars began to show signs of age in '72, and their hitting went out the door. They still had the "four aces" in McNally, Cuellar, Palmer and Dobson so they were not hurting at all for starting pitchers. They were in the '72 race despite anemic bats in the lineup. The addition of Frank Robinson might have gotten the Orioles into the ALCS again in 1972 as they finished only 4.5 games out. Frank also provided leadership to the players.

[Iron Jaw]

they probably would have won the pennant in 1964 had Powell not been injured and limited to barely 400 AB

Actually, Boog played in 134 games and had 424 AB's (506 PAs) - and hit 39 HRs.

Boog was playing leftfield that season. Norm Siebern was at first.

Boog's bat in the lineup for 162 might have given them the extra two games - though he wasn't exactly "fleet" in the outfield.

[Dougman59]

1982: Phillies trade rookie Ryne Sandberg and veteran Larry Bowa to Cubs for Ivan DeJesus. Sandberg goes to Hall of Fame, DeJesus plays 3 years for Phils with OPS+ of 74, 84, and 77.

[I]The DeJesus trade is real head scratcher for me. DeJesus last season with the Cubs he was a triple "loser" (as opposed to triple crown winner) being last in HR, RBI, and batting average with enough AB to compete for the batting crown. In fact, he been the last guy to have this mythical, dubious award in MLB. [I]

[ol' aches and pains]

For the worst trade in Tigers' history - worse than Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz and worse than Don Demeter for Jim Bunning...

The Tigers acquired Aaron Robinson - your basic 33 year old backup catcher - for Billy Pierce. Oh, and the Tigers threw in $10,000 to even up the deal, I guess...

And one of the worst trades in White Sox history took place in December, 1961, when they traded Pierce to the Giants for Bob Farley, Eddie Fisher, and Dom Zanni, the proverbial bag of balls. Pierce won 16 games for the Giants in 1962, and the White Sox finished 11 games out of 1st. place.

[Captain Cold Nose]

And one of the worst trades in White Sox history took place in December, 1961, when they traded Pierce to the Giants for Bob Farley, Eddie Fisher, and Dom Zanni, the proverbial bag of balls. Pierce won 16 games for the Giants in 1962, and the White Sox finished 11 games out of 1st. place.

Eddie Fisher was never the same after he divorced Elizabeth Taylor.

[Iron Jaw]

Eddie Fisher was never the same after he divorced Elizabeth Taylor.

But he was a heck of a good relief pitcher...........who could also sing!

[Paul Wendt]

Eddie Fisher was a good pitcher, including fourth AL MVP while playing for the White Sox in 1964.

In 1962 he pitched 182 innings at ERA+ 127; compare Pierce 162 innings at 108 for the Giants. His career was ahead and Pierce's career was behind.

[Iron Jaw]

Eddie Fisher was a good pitcher, including fourth AL MVP while playing for the White Sox in 1964.
.

Make that 1965 when he was 4th. '64 was a good season for him, but '65 was amazing.

Coming out of the pen he pitched in 82 games, threw over 165 innings, saved 24, had a W-L record of 15-7, fanned 90, and had an ERA of 2.40. Fisher, along with Hoyt Wilhelm and Bob Locker, made up a tremendous trio of relievers that season.

He also greatly helped the Orioles in 1966, when he came over in a trade for Jerry Adair. Teamed with Stu Miller, Moe Drabowsky, rookie Eddie Watt (who started a few that season too), and Dick Hall, the Oriole bullpen bailed out the oft-ailing starting staff that season with long relief stints in their World Championship season.

[ol' aches and pains]

Eddie Fisher was a good pitcher, including fourth AL MVP while playing for the White Sox in 1964.

In 1962 he pitched 182 innings at ERA+ 127; compare Pierce 162 innings at 108 for the Giants. His career was ahead and Pierce's career was behind.

True, but the point of my post was the last sentence: Pierce won 16 games for the Giants in 1962, and the White Sox finished 11 games out of 1st. place.

If he had won those 16 games for the White Sox... When the team you root for only wins the pennant every 40 years or so, you tend to speculate like this. I would prefer the 16 wins to the higher ERA+.

[RuthMayBond]

True, but the point of my post was the last sentence: Pierce won 16 games for the Giants in 1962, and the White Sox finished 11 games out of 1st. place.

If he had won those 16 games for the White Sox... .

He wouldn't have. I'm guessing he got a little more run support on a team with Cepeda. Mays, Alou, Davenport, Haller ...