View Poll Results: Do you think Radar guns can be a valuable tool to use?

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  • Yes

    95 35.19%
  • no

    70 25.93%
  • doesn't matter

    28 10.37%
  • Ok as long as you stress strikes

    60 22.22%
  • Never. Only an idiot would use a gun.

    17 6.30%
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Thread: Little League

  1. #1

    Little League

    I have a question. I am coaching Little League again this year and i am wondering about my boy.
    He has what I think is an amazing arm and I recently clocked him throwing 50mph. He is ten years old.

    Does anyone know what is very good (speed) for a ten year old? Is 50mph just average, better than average, good, or great?

    Oh and BTW: Yes I do stress strikes. This is just something I am wondering about.

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    thats probably a little above for a 10yr old .I'd ay avg 10 speed is 45 to 47.I had 9 's throwing 46.Depends on a kid's physical size somewhat too.

  3. #3

    thanks

    Thanks for the reply. He is a little small for his age.
    Anyway, he throws so much better than any of the other boys on his team that I just wondered if he was way above average or what ever. I had no idea what was good or great.

    Thanks again...if anyone else has any insight I would love to hear it.

  4. #4

    Help

    is there a website shows average pitching speed for different ages? Whats the average for Highschool freshman?

  5. #5
    Average velocities is a tough comparison. I remember a kid (Kevin Graham) in the LL world series clocked at 81mph. Pretty decent for a 12 year old. I have seen several 13 year olds throwing in the high 70's and a couple getting in to the very low 80's. Average for a good 12 year old seems to be mid 60's.
    There's a lot of 15 year olds throwing 83 - 84 mph.
    I wouldn't put that much stress on velocity. I saw one 13 year old who had all the scouts drooling because he was a huge kid and was throwing 84 mph. By the time the kid was 17 he was throwing 83 mph.
    I haven't see too many people clocking a 10 year old so I'm not sure how quickly the velocity should increase.
    By the way, be careful, it's not about throwing strikes, it's about hitting the target. Alot of young kids just lean back and throw hard and never learn to hit the glove. Throwing hard won't work for long if he doesn't hit the target. Throwing strikes could really hurt him as he gets older as well.

  6. #6
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    No dang wonder my 10YO had trouble at the cages today - I had him hitting 60mph pitches and he was behind on almost every pitch. Oh well, should just quicken the motion for the slower stuff.
    I don't keep up with the pitching that much, last year we had a 9 yr old that was throwing in the mid to upper 50's (so I'm told) I never saw the clock but he could sure bring the heat and had much control issues to iron out. I am also interested in the ranges to age comparison such as (example cause I don't know): 10yo - 50mph=avg 60mph=above avg

  7. #7
    I used google and found this website.

    http://www.webball.com/scout/norms.html

  8. #8
    FYI - my son tried out last year for a travel team after his 10 year old season was just finished. All of the pitchers selected were clocked at no less the 55 mph, with two at 61 mph. I do not know what kind of radar gun or how accurate it was but 50 mph sounds a little slow, although it is early in the season for your son.

    Realistically, speed does not matter at this age. If he gets people out that's all that matters. Good luck!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparksdale
    I used google and found this website.

    http://www.webball.com/scout/norms.html

    Yup, that's what I was looking for. Thanks.

  10. #10
    61?? Wow that's pretty incredible.
    My boy turned ten about four months ago so he's not had a full year at the ten year old level to grow. Plus baseball season has just started and we've only had one practice.

    Anyway, I'm just now starting to teach him how to throw right. I never pitched so I really had no idea what I was doing when I helped him throw. Come to find out every single thing, and I mean every single thing, I told him was wrong. He's only been throwing right (or should I say with "better mechanics) for about two weeks. He is throwing at 50mph now, I think with a better coach and more practice he could go up to 55mph or so...I think.

    Itn't it funny how all of us are? WE all think we have the next John Smotz or something...lol

    Let me tell you something that happened last fall. Our boy played on the fall baseball league. When the short season was over he had a batting average of .933 - he went 28 for 30 on the season. The last game we played we played the best team in our area. They are a road team and play year round. Well during that last game my boy pitched two hittless innings (there was a limit of two innings on fall league) and also had a heck of a game batting. The other team put thier very best pitchers in to try and stop my boy. Well we lost the game 11 to seven but my boy had six RBI with a homerun a double and a single.
    I got home that night and emailed my old high school baseball coach. He coaches at the University of Alabama now. I told him about my boy and asked his advice. He put me in my spot in a hurry. He told me not to get caught up in all of it but to make sure my boy had fun. He said what ever I do make sure he has fun. He is right of course.

    Ok....everyone else brag now ;-)

  11. #11
    Don't get caught up in numbers for a ten year old. A lot depends on physical development. The important thing is to get his mechanics sound and keep his arm healthy. 50 isn't great for this level, but it's good enough if he can place it and throw a changeup now and then. The important thing is that he's "in the game" -- talented enough that he'll be a valuable member of his team appreciated by his teammates. Glad your old coach has the right perspective.

    One of the fun things about chatting with HiddenGem is that, even though he's a top pro player, he's got his head screwed on straight about making sure that kids have fun at this age.

  12. #12
    We had practice today. My boy threw 49mph but threw quality pitches and most were either strikes or close to a strike.
    One of the other boys threw 47 but was all over the place.

    It looks like my boy has a pretty good arm but not great. Then again I think he can do much better with better coaching. I was never a pitcher so what little I have taught him is from videos and such. Still the video's help.

    My goal is to have him pitch and strengthen his arm. Personally, I hurt my arm as a child and that is the last thing I want for him to do. So I am going to give 1000% attention to making sure he has a good arm when he gets older.

    All I can say is if you have a 10year old throwing high fifties to low sixties then that kid is bringing some cheese. Just make sure you take care of his arm and don't let him throw to many innings.
    Last edited by Sparksdale; 03-25-2006 at 03:09 PM.

  13. #13
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    I have been involved with LL for about twenty years. A word of caution.... I have more of an issue with clocking a ten year old than whatever it is he is throwing for speed. You may be setting him up for failure. He should be throwing whatever it is he can properly throw using good mechanics, if it's 50 so be it. If it's 30 so what... Be carefull. Put the Gun away until he's playing in high school.
    Last edited by Jake Patterson; 03-26-2006 at 03:58 PM.

  14. #14
    Learning to throw with control is one thing. Learning to throw hard is another thing. Learning to throw hard with control is a third thing. If you wait till high school to learn to throw hard with control, you probably won't. Reason being, there is no opporunity to fail for awhile as you learn control while throwing hard. IOW, you will have less and less freedom to experiment as you move up the ladder because there will be more and more pressure to WIN NOW. The high school coach has a career riding on it.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparksdale
    Anyway, I'm just now starting to teach him how to throw right. I never pitched so I really had no idea what I was doing when I helped him throw. Come to find out every single thing, and I mean every single thing, I told him was wrong. He's only been throwing right (or should I say with "better mechanics) for about two weeks.

    Now I'm worried. I shudder to ask what "throwing right...with better mechanics" means.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark H
    Learning to throw with control is one thing. Learning to throw hard is another thing. Learning to throw hard with control is a third thing. If you wait till high school to learn to throw hard with control, you probably won't. Reason being, there is no opporunity to fail for awhile as you learn control while throwing hard. IOW, you will have less and less freedom to experiment as you move up the ladder because there will be more and more pressure to WIN NOW. The high school coach has a career riding on it.
    Mark, who was this directed at??

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Patterson
    Mark, who was this directed at??
    Not to answer for Mark, but looks like it was a general observation.

  18. #18
    What I meant was he is at least starting to do things a little better. He isn't by in stretch doing things right....not yet anyway.
    I have talked with him (and all of our LL'ers) that I would much much rather they throw 35 mph for a strike than 50mph that wasn't a strike.

    I just wanted to know how fast my boy could throw compared to other kids his age....that's all. Now we know and we have it out of our system.
    We aren't at all worried about how fast he "pitches". I would always ALWAYS rather he throw for strikes.

    He is a very good all around player so my goals for him are this.
    1. make sure he has fun and LOVES the game.
    2. I will always make sure he takes care of his arm. That is priority one with me and he really gets mad at me because of it. I ruined my arm as a kid and I don't want that to happen to him. Last year we were playing in a game and the other team brought in a new pitcher. The umpire let the other pitcher pitch at least 15 warm up pitches (probably more) before he said play ball. My boy came in during one of the last innings to pitch and the umpire said play ball. I told him no that I wanted him to take a few warm up pitches. The ump said no we didn't have time that they were just kids anyway. I took my boy off the mound and put him back at short.

    I hope I haven't gotten the wrong impression on this thread. My #1 concern in my boy and his health and LOVE FOR THE GAME. My hope is the can learn to love the game as I do and maybe be a good player for as long as he wants to play.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparksdale
    What I meant was he is at least starting to do things a little better. He isn't by in stretch doing things right....not yet anyway.

    .
    How do you decide what "doing things right" is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparksdale

    I have talked with him (and all of our LL'ers) that I would much much rather they throw 35 mph for a strike than 50mph that wasn't a strike.

    .
    If your first consideration is winning games, then you are on the right track. If your first consideration is guiding them on a path more likely to help them achieve their potential, then no, you are not on the right track.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparksdale
    He is a very good all around player so my goals for him are this.
    1. make sure he has fun and LOVES the game.
    2. I will always make sure he takes care of his arm. That is priority one with me and he really gets mad at me because of it. I ruined my arm as a kid and I don't want that to happen to him.
    Sparks, seems like you have a good handle on this if these are you priorities. In addition to having coached up through the high school ranks I also hold a M.Ed and a BS in youth counselling. Parents who push their children (Consciously or unconsciously) beyond their capabilities, regardless of their talent potential create problems. "You can pay me now or pay me later." Years ago I had a youngster that showed great talent potential at the age of twelve. Dad (an ex-collegiate pitcher) did the psycho dad deal and it was 24/7 pitching. Long story short - he peaked in high school, doesn't play college, resents his dad, and no longer plays baseball. On the other hand I also had a kid on the same team - parents had a healthy perspective on development. The player's talent peaked in college and he went on to play a succsessful baseball career and is now looking at coaching as a young man.

  21. #21
    Pushing a kid or not is a different question than I am addressing. If the kid is looking to dad to help him figure out how to reach his potential is the question I am addressing.

  22. #22

    Pushing

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark H
    Pushing a kid or not is a different question than I am addressing. If the kid is looking to dad to help him figure out how to reach his potential is the question I am addressing.
    Remember, he is ten years old. Right now all he cares about is how to get out of doing homework and playing with his friends. He loves baseball but it's not like itís all he thinks about. He knows he is better than the rest of the kids he plays with and to be honest I think he gets a kick out of being the best. He was also the best at soccer and his coach named him captain of the team and MVP. He said he had never done that for a young kids group but he wanted to reward my boy for his hard work and outstanding play.

    Listen, I'm one of these guys who played in high school but didn't have the talent to go further. I can always tell you what Chipper Jones is doing wrong and I'll scream at Bobby Cox for making a wrong call. I love baseball but I am being extra cautious with my boy because quite frankly I think he has a special gift. Now maybe he will outgrow it I don't know.
    A few weeks ago I bought a pitching CD from Cal Ripkin and so far it has at least taught me some of the basics to show my boy. That is a start. Hey he's only ten, he has a lifetime to learn. Right now I want to make sure he has fun and takes care of his arm.
    Our local college has a pitching camp in a couple of months and we're going to sign him up. Maybe he can get a good grasp on mechanics and how to best take care of his arm there.

    Also I don't think you should be so quick to get on someone. I've been coaching little league for two years and like thousands of others around the country I do this for free because I love the game and I love these kids. Coaching a little league team is a pretty big job and it takes several hours a week of my time. Mind you I wouldn't change it for the world. There is nothing better I would rather do.

    At this point I am finding places like this on the internet to help give me a better idea how to help my boy and the others kids...that's all.

    Do I want my boy to win? No I want him to lose every game. What kind of stupid question is that? Do I want him to win so bad that I will let it hurt his arm? I think I answered that question above when I said I took him off the pitchers mound because the ump wouldn't let him warm up.

    Finally to answer your question. Can I help him reach his potential? The honest answer is no. I can't. I don't have the knowledge. I will say this; since he was old enough to walk I have gone to the back yard and thrown the ball with him. I have never said no when he asks. My work (I am a writer) allows me the position to give him all the time he needs and believe me he gets probably more time than he wants.
    In the end I hope we can find him a coach that can help him improve in areas that I can't. Till then I'll pick up the glove when he asks and I'll throw the ball.

  23. #23

    53

    Yesterday my area had a big get together for all of the area little league teams. It was an all day event and each team played two (two inning) games and we had a cookout and everything. It was a lot of fun.

    At the end we had a homerun/pitching contest. My boy won the homerun derby and came in second on the pitching. He threw 53 mph (again he is ten years old). One boy who came from out of town threw 54 mph and beat him in the pitching. So it looks like my boy has a pretty good arm compared to all of the other kids his age. What is most important is that when he threw his pitches they were either strikes or very close. WE did not stipulate before the contest that the pitcher had to throw a strike so the boy who threw 54mph threw a pitch that hit 10 feet in front of home plate but we had to count the pitch. Regardless the boy did well.

    We also had the same contest for the 11 and 12 year olds. If my boy had competed in that contest he would have one 3rd place in pitching and second place in hitting. The 11 and 12 year olds (at least in my city) didn't throw much harder than my boy does at 10 years old. We do have a 12 year old that did very well and threw 61 mph....he is probably the best player around here.

    Anyway, just thought I would update the thread a little on everything.

    We all had a great time at the event and I was very proud of my boy...

  24. #24
    There's been a lot of chatter on this thread about this issue of 10 year olds and how hard they can throw. Someone way back suggested putting the radar gun away and that's the best advice you've been given so far. Please pay attention to it.
    I have coached for many years and have seen many successes and many failures and alot has to do with coaching and parenting (especially when the two go together).

    I agreed to help out a friend who selecting a group of players for an elite team. As an aside he showed me a young guy who was 13 years old trying out for the team (17 year olds) and was so impressed with this kid. He was huge for his age and was throwing 85mph. The kid played JV and I watched him at one of his games. The most impressive thing was the number of junior scouts with their guns on the kid. The next most impressive thing was watching this same kid about 3 years later. The same kid was throwing 83 mph and nobody was watching.

    Did the guns ruin him? Almost certainly.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverdog

    The next most impressive thing was watching this same kid about 3 years later. The same kid was throwing 83 mph and nobody was watching.

    Did the guns ruin him? Almost certainly.
    I am not sure I follow you here. I am not advocating radar guns on young kids, but I am curious how they alone ruin a kid. Who is to say that he wasn't like so many other good 13 year olds and just more physically mature? He might have topped out. Did he long toss and lift weights?

    Besides the radar gun, the other possibilities are that he was satisfied with himself, and got lazy, or he physically topped out, and went from juniors stud, to simply above average. Happens all the time.

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