JC Homerun, double

[LClifton]

This is my daughter...let me know what you think
The good, the bad, the ugly....Please tell me what you see.


The linked clip is a homerun from January.

(link to the swing from January)


Jenna homerun


The clip playing in the post is a double to right from Tuesday (3-28)

LClifton

[Ohfor]

I love this swing. Why? Because I think I see/feel a slopless launch. I think I see/feel about as short a time frame as possible from the time the brain says "go" until contact.

Is it perfect? Doubt it. She just started learning this stuff recently. She goes out to the ball a little. Is it mechancal? Or is she just dealing with new found quickness? I'm curious what Steve or other "posse" members say about it. And also, the "stride to a no-stride" technique?

But, this is quickness. I have a feeling it can be better. By better I mean more powerful. And if it can be quicker...........lord help them sombitches (pitchers).

And, I will brag for a modest dad. This girl went from hitting under .300 to over .600 after meeting Steve and some good ole hard work.

Enough weight shift for you, buster? I thought PCR lacked weight shift.

[jbooth]

This is my daughter...let me know what you think.
The linked clip is a homerun from January.
The clip playing in the post is a double to right from Tuesday (3-28)

LClifton

From the waist up, I think she is almost perfect. Reached a little bit, but it's a game swing, not BP, sometimes that happens. She launches the the bat toward the ball perfectly, IMO.

The lower body is a bit off IMO. She is shifting back and then forward, might even be pushing from back foot to front. On THIS swing she doesn't start turning her hips until the front foot is FULLY weighted. Better, is to turn into front foot plant. She DOES hold the shoulders back though and lets the hips turn the shoulders.

A minor issue and again, it's a game swing and it might just be an issue of timing the pitch. It's a very good swing.

[bigdaddy]

Loren,

I'd love to see her "firm up" her front leg a little sooner and see how that effects rotation. I think it would cut down on the hip slide. Of course the hip slide could be her adjusting to a change-up ala A-Rod.

I'm with the others, she's well on her way to an elite swing! Tell her we're proud of her OBVIOUS hard work.

Keith

[Stealth]

Nice swing - I will say one thing I notice is that when she "loads up" her hands go back and I don't see her shoulders go back with them. If you notice on a recent clip of hidengem his shoulder AND hands go back together. I believe that's the ideal scenario. I would like to see her upper body be a little more involved in the "load up" process. I am pretty sure that would give her even more power.

[Curly]

JC nice swing I hope we do not have to walk you at Nationals when we see you, because I hear you are on fire!

Since both swings are extra bases (one a HR) I would simply say nice adjustments to the pitches.

I think the only adjustment or swing thought I would suggest trying would be the visual of Michelle Smith, where her front hip is flexed/loaded toward the pitcher and she is carrying her middle (a la Dixon) into heel plant.

I am trying to get my daughter to carry the middle rather than step (reach out with the front leg) and turn. This visual would be to load, carry the middle and rotate into foot plant rather than load back, step, carry and turn.

Good Luck and keep working hard!

[jbooth]

Nice swing - I will say one thing I notice is that when she "loads up" her hands go back and I don't see her shoulders go back with them. If you notice on a recent clip of hidengem his shoulder AND hands go back together. I believe that's the ideal scenario. I would like to see her upper body be a little more involved in the "load up" process. I am pretty sure that would give her even more power.

That isn't necessary. The key issue in loading the hands, is to remove slack or slop at the front shoulder, and insure that when the front shoulder turns to swing, that the hands immediately move due to being pulled by the front shoulder.

The hands also need to stay back at the rear shoulder and not move independently away from the back shoulder. (Turn the box.)

She has no slack in the front shoulder. Her hands move when the shoulder moves and she keeps the hands back.

The move you are referring to, can help remove slack in the torso/hip area so that the shoulders are turned by the hips, but she does that pretty well also.

The only thing I see is what I stated; she shifts back, then pushes sideways onto the front foot, then turns the hips. That can be improved, but her rotation, once it starts, is darn good. It just isn't starting as well as it could.

[fungo22]

The lower body is a bit off IMO. She is shifting back and then forward, might even be pushing from back foot to front. On THIS swing she doesn't start turning her hips until the front foot is FULLY weighted. Better, is to turn into front foot plant.

I think this is OK for now. She has kind of a funky loading pattern in which her stride has no real part. She loads after her stride with a variation on a "forward by turning" move similar to that of Michelle Smith. Eventually she might consider something else to get her started, but this could work for her for now.

But when she does start her turn, it doesn't look like her front leg/side is supporting/contributing to her rotation. She needs to turn from both sides. Also, she needs, really needs to turn her back foot inwards. I don't know whether she gives up her rotation and disconnects because she is out in front or whether she disnonnects because she gives up her rotation. I suspect this may be her normal pattern. Turn her back foot in and more stability in the upper front leg.

But more than all of these needs, her biggest need is to get her HS season over with so she can work with her old man on these things.

[Mark H]

Loren,

I'd love to see her "firm up" her front leg a little sooner and see how that effects rotation. I think it would cut down on the hip slide. Of course the hip slide could be her adjusting to a change-up ala A-Rod.

I'm with the others, she's well on her way to an elite swing! Tell her we're proud of her OBVIOUS hard work.

Keith

I don't see the hip slide.

[fungo22]

I don't see the hip slide.

Me too. It ain't hip slide.

[Baseballking15]

From the waist up, I think she is almost perfect. Reached a little bit, but it's a game swing, not BP, sometimes that happens. She launches the the bat toward the ball perfectly, IMO.

The lower body is a bit off IMO. She is shifting back and then forward, might even be pushing from back foot to front. On THIS swing she doesn't start turning her hips until the front foot is FULLY weighted. Better, is to turn into front foot plant. She DOES hold the shoulders back though and lets the hips turn the shoulders.

A minor issue and again, it's a game swing and it might just be an issue of timing the pitch. It's a very good swing.

yea, she was a little early causing her to sort of reach at the ball. that really doesnt have to do with mechanics though. besides that, she does everything almost perfect. she uses her lower body to its fullest, she stayst through the ball, and she doesn't slice at it. the only thing that i saw is when she loaded up after she brought her bat back she wrapped it. after you bring you bat back, ideally 4-6 inches, you shouldn't move it (until the start of your swing) because it makes your swing slower and less smooth.

to wrap it up, if you fix the wrapping of the bat, its a near perfect swing.

[Baseballking15]

also, keep in mind that the closer your hands are to your body at the point of contact, the more power you will get, as you can see in the two mlb clips.

[tom.guerry]

For hip slide,see home run clip.

Mechanics have been changed by something since then, ? attempts at "PCR" ?

[Ohfor]

Every time you open your mouth you prove your agenda.

[LClifton]

For hip slide,see home run clip.

Maybe a little. This really depends on how you view "hip slide."

Mechanics have been changed by something since then, ?

Not on purpose, but I agree.

attempts at "PCR" ?

There is a difference in mechanics.
The posture is better in the home run clip.
The connection / rotation is better in the homerun clip.
So, you are right about the mechanics changing, but IMO, not due to "attempts" at PCR........All three (PCR) were
better in the home run clip and she has regressed to some to old habits.

Also the ball (black uniform) was hit about 6 feet inside the right field line.
So, I would suspect that the rotation may look less complete.

Thanks for weighing in here Tom, do you see anything you like? Or are your just here to take your little jabs?
Either way, fine by me, just curious.


LClifton

[fungo22]

I just talked to Cletus and I'll let him post why he thinks what he thinks (I'm recklessly disagreeing with him), but one thing I do agree about is that her timing is off. Jim suggested it might be that she was fooled a little on the pitch and is a little out in front. However, every swing I've seen (including the dinger swing) is essentially the same.

As I admitted above, I don't know whether she gives up her rotation and disconnects because she is out in front or whether she disconnects because she gives up her rotation. I think she may be out in front of everything and so she has to stop her rotation and reach for the ball with her hands. Cletus thinks she is not making a timely transition between lateral hip shift (there is some coil, but not much) and beginning the rotation. I don't see that (and my posse membership is being reevaluated), but if he's right, being early in her lateral momentum shift may very well be the cause: She has to delay her hip turn because she's started her load/unload sequence too early.

Eventually, she needs to learn to carry her middle forward with her "stride" so that she starts her turn as her front heel touches down. Either than or lose the stride and just shift her middle forward by coiling in a way that her front heel is lifted and then rotate into heel touch down. I was reluctant to say anything about her method of "striding" and then shifting as two moves because she is doing other things pretty well and being pretty successful doing it this way.

If it is a timing thing, then this explains why her hip rotation starts less than optimally and my other attempts to account for it (lack of "synergistic" contribution from the front side and inefficient back foot angle) may be wrong, althought it is always good to turn the back foot in.

I'm not convinced she has a real good "kinesthetic image" of what her swing should look/feel like and so she's not sure of how to time it. I think her little "stride" is adding complexity to her timing.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Pretty good lookin' swing.

Gotta say though. Looks like it wouldn't hurt for her to be widened up a bit to eliminate her stride. If the stride is that far off timing, there's no point in having one imo. It's one thing to be slightly out front of a pitch, and to make the necessary adjustments to still make solid contact, but this seems like something different. I think she needs to "feel" what it's like to by in sync with everything. With just a heel lift for a timing mechanism, she'll feel what it's like to sit back and trust her hands, not being so anxious. Good swing overall though.

[Mark H]

For hip slide,see home run clip.

?

I don't think she is really planted and rotating in the frame you are interpreting as hip slide. I interpret it at more like rotating into heel plant. Non-standard stride/no stride action like this can fool a viewer. How many frames do you count?

[bigdaddy]

Mark,

Help me "see" this hip slide thing! In the double clip, I see her heel plant then her front hip moves toward the pitcher for a frame or two before she begins rotating. Isn't that hip slide? Or is it NOT hip slide because once she starts rotating she stops moving her hip toward the pitcher?

Keith

[tom.guerry]

Clif-

I will reply when time allows. In the meantime as the posse says,just expect Tom messages #1,2,3,etc.

The more things change,the more they stay the same.

[Ohfor]

I finally understood a post of yours.

Good job. Keep it up.

[jbooth]

Mark,

Help me "see" this hip slide thing! In the double clip, I see her heel plant then her front hip moves toward the pitcher for a frame or two before she begins rotating. Isn't that hip slide? Or is it NOT hip slide because once she starts rotating she stops moving her hip toward the pitcher?

Keith

Her front hip isn't moving toward the pitcher after heel plant. It starts to rotate. It helps in viewing to look at everything. Look at what her back hip is doing. It is starting to rotate at front heel plant and there is no more sideways movement. Hip slide is when the hips move sideways for quite a distance after the front foot is fully weighted. She doesn't turn until the foot is weighted, so it looks like hip slide, but she turns immediately after foot plant, her center doesn't continue to go sideways.

You have too look very closely at her front foot. The dirt looks like it is very soft. Look until you find the difference between when her foot first TOUCHES the ground, versus when it is FULLY weighted. Her knee is bent and it stays bent and her front hip moves forward as the foot touches and it appears to be slide because the hip keeps moving until the front foot is fully weighted before she rotates. But, as soon as the weight is down, she rotates. She should rotate at contact instead of after weighting, but the definition of hip slide is continuing to lunge forward after the foot is fully weighted, and she doesn't do that, IMO.

[FlippJ]

Two clips with two very good results!!!

With that said, I see disconnected swings dominated by the arms/hands. IMO the side by side clips posted by Sandman do a good job of illustrating the differences in how the high level hitters get the barrel around compared to how Jenna is doing it. IMO the MLB guys use the connected rotation of their body to bring the barrel around. This includes the positioning of their body (i.e. posture). Jenna stands up and takes her hands to the ball.

Jason

[Ursa Major]

JimBooth said: Her front hip isn't moving toward the pitcher after heel plant. It starts to rotate. It helps in viewing to look at everything. Look at what her back hip is doing. It is starting to rotate at front heel plant and there is no more sideways movement. Hip slide is when the hips move sideways for quite a distance after the front foot is fully weighted. She doesn't turn until the foot is weighted, so it looks like hip slide, but she turns immediately after foot plant, her center doesn't continue to go sideways.

You have too look very closely at her front foot. The dirt looks like it is very soft. Look until you find the difference between when her foot first TOUCHES the ground, versus when it is FULLY weighted. Her knee is bent and it stays bent and her front hip moves forward as the foot touches and it appears to be slide because the hip keeps moving until the front foot is fully weighted before she rotates. But, as soon as the weight is down, she rotates. She should rotate at contact instead of after weighting, but the definition of hip slide is continuing to lunge forward after the foot is fully weighted, and she doesn't do that, IMO.

Excellent analysis, Jim. When MarkH said he couldn't see hip slide, I was wondering what he'd been smoking, but since he's never been wrong so far, I had to scratch my head. Now that you explain it, I can see it. Gee, you oughta do this kinda stuff for a living, Jim.

Still, even if she was fooled, the false start and bobbing back and forth had her head moving around. The home run, which she'd obviously timed much better, at full speed shows her quickness and suggest that she should try to work on waiting a bit more "quietly."

Since I like the home run swing better and the better timing suggests that it represents more of her "optimum" (albeit pre-Steve E.) swing, I thought I'd bring that to the fore as a .gif, and slow it down. Because we're talking hip slide, I stopped it briefly at her heel plant and started counting frames as her hips moved forward until it seemed like her rotation started. (But, I'll let you guys fight over which frame it is; don't take my word for it.) Hope it helps with the analysis. Even in slow motion, I'll take that swing, though.

(But who's the bozo taking a practice swing and obstructing your video of your daughter's home run swing! Isn't that a felony in some states?)

[Ohfor]

Two clips with two very good results!!!

With that said, I see disconnected swings dominated by the arms/hands. IMO the side by side clips posted by Sandman do a good job of illustrating the differences in how the high level hitters get the barrel around compared to how Jenna is doing it. IMO the MLB guys use the connected rotation of their body to bring the barrel around. This includes the positioning of their body (i.e. posture). Jenna stands up and takes her hands to the ball.

Jason

I think you're missing the good in this swing. It's not perfect. I'd like to see the hands not go to the ball. But before they do that, there is some real quality stuff going on. You can't be this quick if it's all arms.

There is a big difference between having no connection at the beginning of a swing and having good connection at the beginning and losing it or giving it up. She goes to the ball. Yep. But, the beginning of this swing is very good for a young girl less than a year into it.