JC Homerun, double

[Batsics1]

Taking the plunge for the first time, I would say there are lots of positives in her swing. The two issues I see are that she is going after the ball rather than waiting for the ball to come to her; and that there is nothing of any significance happening in the stride.

View the double clip in two parts: from beginning to toe touch, and toe touch forward. Nothing much happens in the first part except she opens her front leg slightly and tests the waters with her toe. Compare this clip to one of the Benyi clips viewed in the same way.

From toe touch forward there is a pretty darn good swing with one exception: her shoulders/upper body moves forward after the hips stop and rotation is beginning. My guess is that it is more an intent/focus issue - going after the ball vs. waiting - rather than a mechanical issue. The stride is irrelevant from a power perspective - there is no significant loading to unload at footplant and probably is causing her to have a tendency to start the swing too early. But, my opinions come with a shaker of salt, take as many grains as you like.

[jbooth]

Excellent analysis, Jim. When MarkH said he couldn't see hip slide, I was wondering what he'd been smoking, but since he's never been wrong so far, I had to scratch my head. Now that you explain it, I can see it. Gee, you oughta do this kinda stuff for a living, Jim.

Still, even if she was fooled, the false start and bobbing back and forth had her head moving around. The home run, which she'd obviously timed much better, at full speed shows her quickness and suggest that she should try to work on waiting a bit more "quietly."

Since I like the home run swing better and the better timing suggests that it represents more of her "optimum" (albeit pre-Steve E.) swing, I thought I'd bring that to the fore as a .gif, and slow it down. Because we're talking hip slide, I stopped it briefly at her heel plant and started counting frames as her hips moved forward until it seemed like her rotation started. (But, I'll let you guys fight over which frame it is; don't take my word for it.) Hope it helps with the analysis. Even in slow motion, I'll take that swing, though.

(But who's the bozo taking a practice swing and obstructing your video of your daughter's home run swing! Isn't that a felony in some states?)

Her foot isn't fully weighted until your +3 and by +4 she rotates. She obviously has been told to rotate around the front leg, so she has taken it literally and rotates when her brain senses that the front leg is weighted. She needs to understand that the rotation starts before full weight and then completes rotation around the fully weighted front leg.

Also, her center doesn't slide, she touches down, stays centered until full weight and then rotates. Hip slide is when the hips don't stay centered.

[LClifton]

(But who's the bozo taking a practice swing and obstructing your video of your daughter's home run swing! Isn't that a felony in some states?)

I have video of the entire at bat and of course, no problem, until that swing.

Kinda at a crucial point too.

LClifton

[jbooth]

Two clips with two very good results!!!

With that said, I see disconnected swings dominated by the arms/hands. IMO the side by side clips posted by Sandman do a good job of illustrating the differences in how the high level hitters get the barrel around compared to how Jenna is doing it. IMO the MLB guys use the connected rotation of their body to bring the barrel around. This includes the positioning of their body (i.e. posture). Jenna stands up and takes her hands to the ball.

Jason

Her swing isn't DOMINATED by the arms/hands, the initial forces to launch the bat are exactly the same as Pujols. The initiation is the critical part. She "arms" it a bit, after the vast majority of force has already been correctly applied to start the swing. An arm dominated swing is one that has the hands leaving the shoulder area early. She does NOT do that. Her shoulder, hands and bat move as a unit, as they should. She disconnects very late which has almost no effect on batspeed by that time. She loses the final arc of the hands which prevents her from getting additional batspeed, but she has already generated enough speed to hit the ball well, but not as well as she could.

Also, her hips turn the shoulders. Her hips turn later than Albert's and A-rod's, but they do turn the shoulders, and the critical part of her upper body movement is identical to Albert's.

I think your analysis is quite a bit off.

Her hips turn her shoulders, and the shoulders are pulling the hands and the hands are staying at 90 degrees to the forearm, with late bathead release. Those are the CRITICAL elements of a swing, and she executes them. She could turn the hips a little sooner and with more violence, and keep the hands going around the body, but other than that she generates a lot of power.

[Mark H]

Mark,

Help me "see" this hip slide thing! In the double clip, I see her heel plant then her front hip moves toward the pitcher for a frame or two before she begins rotating. Isn't that hip slide? Or is it NOT hip slide because once she starts rotating she stops moving her hip toward the pitcher?

Keith

To me this is really a no stride swing preceded by a step to get her into the position she want to be in for her weight shift/momentum development no stride swing. When she decides to rotate, I see little if any hip slide (60fps would be nice) once she starts rotating. The results of these two swings say she did a pretty good job of momentum transfer (into rotation).

[jbooth]

I think you're missing the good in this swing. It's not perfect. I'd like to see the hands not go to the ball. But before they do that, there is some real quality stuff going on. You can't be this quick if it's all arms.

There is a big difference between having no connection at the beginning of a swing and having good connection at the beginning and losing it or giving it up. She goes to the ball. Yep. But, the beginning of this swing is very good for a young girl less than a year into it.

Amazing! For once, I totally agree with you.

[tom.guerry]

Flipp said:

"With that said, I see disconnected swings dominated by the arms/hands."


Agree (with words at least if not intent/further interpretation).

The hands/arms MUST disconnect, because loading and rotation are poor. Coil is lacking. There is not enough separation/stagiing of momentum transfer to drive the swing quickly to contact, so arms take over.

I like a swing that is dominated by the arms in such a way that coil/load is good and the swing can then be driven from lauch to contact quickly without disconnecting.

I think this is also what Garrett is geting at in

"rotation, arm action, connection, BARREL"

His words are good. I can't speak for the full intent/interpretation.

http://s6.invisionfree.com/Hitting/i...?showtopic=289

PCR alone will not fix this.

[FlippJ]

I think your analysis is quite a bit off.

It's okay Jim, I feel the same way about your analysis.

You can be quick and still be inefficient. I don't see Jenna being connected at all. I see a frame or two of shoulder rotation without any barrel movement (i.e. bat lag). As a result her hands get stuck behind the rotation of her body and she's forced to use them to catch up. Sandman's clips do a good job of illustrating this in my opinion.

Rotation isn't just about turning the body. It also involves turning the barrel. But then again, what do I know.

Jason

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Looks like she's staying "flat through the ball" very nicely on that homer

[LClifton]

You can be quick and still be inefficient. I don't see Jenna being connected at all.

Or you could be totally efficient and not quick.
I'm sure you've seen enough clips to validate this.
Which clip are you referring to?
Both? and both have no connection?

LClifton

[jbooth]

It's okay Jim, I feel the same way about your analysis.

Fine but, mine is correct and yours isn't.

I see a frame or two of shoulder rotation without any barrel movement (i.e. bat lag).

I don't know what you're looking at. The bat is moving with the shoulders in the stills below;

Rotation isn't just about turning the body. It also involves turning the barrel. But then again, what do I know.

The barrel IS moving and it moves when the shoulder moves the hands if you keep the hands firm.

[ShawnB]

I somewhat agree with the disconnection. I get the feeling she top hand dominate and there is very little pull from the lead arm (or a strong connection with the lead arm).

Even with that much extension in the swing the lead side should stay connected. I get the feeling on the HR swing that the shoulders stop and become a platform for the arms.

I think her lead side (front arm) is weak on it's role. It's somewhat tougher with girls and narrow shoulders with long skinney arms.

I'll look at it closer when I get home from the game.

[ShawnB]

Took a quick look, I think I like the double better. It's to tell sometimes with girls with long skinny arms and narrow shoulders. They look arm-y, because they are arm-y.

Still I believe the front arm is being under used.

[ShawnB]

There a good clip a Tairia Flowers in the Right View Pro clips, you can really see the lead arm working much greater then in these clips. The no stride is about the same with both hitters.

[douger]

Glad to hear Jenna is doing well Loren, what a stud! I think a useful line of questioning for her would be ... "what is the location of the ball where you want to unload the barrel at (through unhinging of the wrists)?". I am not talking specifically about these swings, but in a general case and what she believes is optimal. Gametime swings will of course vary based on starting too late, being fooled by the pitch, etc. I think this will indicate if she is aware and can manipulate her wrists unhinging and releasing the bat head ... and what she perceives is the perfect position of the ball when this should occur.

Doug

[Ohfor]

...I see a frame or two of shoulder rotation without any barrel movement...

Poppeycock.

For a player with less than a year of work at this....

and, for a player that went from under .300 to over .600......at a high level.....with power........

You can't be saying she did that with her arms.

You are picking nits.

What I believe is, you don't know what it is that is making the difference.

You need the "trainers perspective".

That being said, she needs to explore the "hands to the ball" thing and fix it.

[MSandman]

[Ohfor]

If I were you I wouldn't say anything either.

[MSandman]

I've already spoken privately w/ Loren. That's all that really counts. Getting YOU to agree w/ my points is extraneous.

[Ohfor]

Then I'll say it differently.

If I were you, I'd keep my thoughts private.

Just a little Friday night levity. Don't get so serious.

[GoDeep]

Hey Ohfur,

Guess what... you're not him, so why don't you keep your thoughts private? you seem to want to take up Paul's obnoxious demeanor. what's with that? disagreeing is cool, but you need to lighten up. or maybe it's just me, since i've only been in your neighborhood a couple of weeks... you own the playground and the ball probably, too...

[LClifton]

Hey guys I got some new clips from our workout tonight and I'm gonna post them as soon as I'm done editing....Just tee work, hopefully some improvement with some things....many more reps to go, I know....but she's pretty dang coachable. Course I may be bias.

LClifton

[fungo22]

I'm with JB and O-fer on this. She shows none of the symptoms of a top hand dominant arm swinger: Her front foot does not land open and there is no bat drag.

[map]

Question for you guys. On JB's lower right still shot it looks to me like knob to the ball. Is this an example of disconnection that is always being discussed? Also,just wanted to add, great video and analysis on all the topics. Much appreciated. Thanks, Mark

[LClifton]

Question for you guys. On JB's lower right still shot it looks to me like knob to the ball. Is this an example of disconnection that is always being discussed? Also,just wanted to add, great video and analysis on all the topics. Much appreciated. Thanks, Mark

I think so. The hands should be on a different path at this point in the swing, I think. This is where she stops rotating (due to being too early) and all that's left is this move you see....Throwing the hands, disconnect.
The swing needs about another frame of connection to be close.
LClifton