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Thread: Discussion on Wood Bats

  1. #4261
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    (just outside) Boston, MA
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    45
    Considering getting a CNC lathe. I was wondering if anyone here was familiar with the Motioncat TC650E. How is the Motion Cat CNC $57,000 new when all other true CNC's that most bat companies use are over 100K? I know it's made in the USA but that cannot account for a $40,000 difference. I could be wrong but maybe part of it is because there is only one main cutting blade? Also, where would one start to find a horizontal wood boring machine to cup bats? Thanks boys!!

  2. #4262
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Louisville, Ky
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    1,083
    Most other companies are using lathes with at least 4 axis though most don't use all four. This lathe only has two axis. From the video's I watched it doesn't seem like a very quick machine, but with having to use a 1-2mm knive for the main cutting you have to go slow. Overall it doesn't seem like a bad machine just don't expect 600-700 bats a day off of it in an eight hour shift.

    I can't help you with the cupping machine, we built ours from scratch around 30-40yrs ago.

  3. #4263
    I have seen cupping techniques at some bat companies ranging from the horizontal wood boring-type machines to simple drill presses and wood clamps. Some companies I have seen use a gram- or ounce-scale, and use the cupping to get the weight of the bat right. Others factor in the cup size and weight when selecting the billet before cutting a bat, then cup the bat after sanding.

  4. #4264
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Tokyo, Japan
    Posts
    315
    did the cupping spec change to 1 1/4" depth for this year?
    on espn, the reporter called the end cup "scooping"
    haha!

  5. #4265
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    Mar 2006
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    Louisville, Ky
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    Yeah, we use a very sharp ice cream scoop

    Yes, the spec changed to 1.25in to help knock off some more weight.

  6. #4266
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    PA
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    1,566
    Have you ever made bats for Ryan Howard or Jimmy Rollins. They seem to be very loyal to their brands and have wondered if they have ever ordered elsewhere.
    See ball, hit ball.

  7. #4267
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    Yeah, Ryan Howard ordered from us on a few occasions and Jimmy Rollins has off and on but nothing of late. We quit chasing Howard since his involvement with Marucci.

  8. #4268

    What brand is this?

  9. #4269
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Louisville, Ky
    Posts
    1,083
    Phoenix Bat Company, out of Ohio.

  10. #4270
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    PA
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    I have purchased from Lefty at Phoenix Bats. I have a B356 and an S123. Both flame tempered with clearcoat. They look awesome. Lefty is a good guy to deal with.
    See ball, hit ball.

  11. #4271
    domingo now has his own bat.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upn4OjDxitM
    I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

  12. #4272
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    PA
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    Entertaining.

    I must add that I miss Granite Bats. Anyone else have one?
    See ball, hit ball.

  13. #4273
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Montgomery, AL
    Posts
    262
    Quote Originally Posted by dominik View Post
    domingo now has his own bat.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upn4OjDxitM
    Looks like they based it off "The Torch" model. My son has one and really likes it.

  14. #4274
    I have read this wonderful thread since page 1 and am now up to 158!

    Firstly, I want to thank the wealth of information provided by the main resources of information, BMH etc... and also those asking the questions - fantastic stuff!

    I just joined a 25+ wood bat league, after using wood in the (machine) cage for a year. I purchased a LS M9 T141 for $79.99 that I used for the majority of the year, but after my second practice with the team, it broke in BP!
    I used my brand-new LS GI13EL MLB Player (bought the week before for $89.99) the rest of the practice, and used it once in the (machine) cage, and brought it to practice the next week, and it brakes in BP!
    The bat was used for a week and a half!
    I mean I know that wood breaks, and stuff happens, but what are the odds that two top of the line Louisville Slugger bats break within the same week, one of which is barely 2 weeks old and used 2 1/2 times?!

    I seriously would love your guys' input on this matter, as I need to know what kind of wood to get. I loved the feel (while somewhat different) of both bats, and really enjoy the tradition of LS, but what gives?

    Based on BMH's recommendation (pages ago!) I just put in an order for 2 Phoenix Bats (one ash 161, one maple I13) and I am really hoping for the best. I just can't afford to blow through wood like this at $80+ a pop (literally), even at $50, this would be ridiculous. I intend on saving one bat for gameday, but whose to say what can happen...

    Any advice, comments or ideas would be much appreciated.

    Thanks!

  15. #4275
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Bend, Oregon
    Posts
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by tomhagen View Post
    I have read this wonderful thread since page 1 and am now up to 158!

    Firstly, I want to thank the wealth of information provided by the main resources of information, BMH etc... and also those asking the questions - fantastic stuff!...............................

    I seriously would love your guys' input on this matter, as I need to know what kind of wood to get. I loved the feel (while somewhat different) of both bats, and really enjoy the tradition of LS, but what gives?

    Based on BMH's recommendation (pages ago!) I just put in an order for 2 Phoenix Bats (one ash 161, one maple I13) and I am really hoping for the best. I just can't afford to blow through wood like this at $80+ a pop (literally), even at $50, this would be ridiculous. I intend on saving one bat for gameday, but whose to say what can happen...

    Any advice, comments or ideas would be much appreciated.

    Thanks!
    Tom Hagen: I'm going to make a series of statements about wood bats. In the interest of full disclosure, I'm the inventor and manufacturer of a laminated all wood bat, the PowerWood bat. Also, BMH (or anybody) may want to chime in if they see things differently. As far as BMH recommending you buy a Phoenix bat, I didn't go back and look but perhaps you missed in your reading that the "H" is for Hillerich. Thus his expertise on LS bats. Before making bats I was a master carpenter and designed and built homes for 30 years and learned a lot about wood in general. I've also coached the game for many years and focus on hitting and pitching mechanics. I have a son who pitches in college and one who plays in high school.

    1. Every wood bat has just so many "bad" hits in it. Some more and some less depending on the piece of wood.
    2. The forces in the bat/ball collision are huge. It only lasts one millisecond but averages 8000 psi.
    3. If you hit the ball on the "sweet spot" of the bat all the time, your conventional wood bat will last a long time (generally).
    4. As the contact point moves away from the sweet spot, either direction, those forces put the bat into sometimes catastrophic bending modes. (see high speed video from Baseball Research Center on my website)
    5. All the maple and ash for bats come from the same general forests, mostly in the Appalachian range. Some areas may be more conducive to growing trees that are more favorable for bats but this can jump around as well depending on climate, soil types and mix of hardwoods in the area. No bat maker has a monopoly on "good" wood.
    6. Quality of conventional wood bats depends more on the bat maker and how much time they spend "culling" what they perceive as good bat wood from "bad" bat wood.
    7. Even with best efforts by a conscientious bat maker, it is still wood. It's not magic. If you hit on the label or on the end of the barrel, the bat can break and it doesn't matter if you spent $130 or $50. I've seen bats that cost $130 break in the first at-bat and $50 bats that lasted a long time. (see #3)
    8. Learning to hit with wood if you've always used metal can be expensive using conventional wood bats due to the fact that you didn't have to "pay" for bad swings while swinging metal bats. You got helped out by NASA metallurgical engineers. Swinging with wood requires more emphasis being placed on getting the "right" part of the bat on the ball than does swinging with metal. The sweet spot counts more that just swinging hard. If you play golf, you know this.
    9, I can't attest to the number but I understand that the average MLB players goes through about 100 bats per season. (Don't quote me on this)
    10 You will hear guys swear by this brand of bat or that brand of bat but again, none of them are magic and unbreakable. This depends more on you. Baseball players like different bats for all kinds of reasons and some of them may be pretty strange. Don't try to figure it out. You'll pop a vein in your head.
    11. The game of baseball should be played with wood bats. (Whoops, I devolved into opinion. I better stop)

    I just want to shed some light on the world of wood bats so that you don't have unrealistic expectations. Just remember that when you get a hit with a wood bat, you really got a hit based on your skill with the bat and it just plain feels better.

    Good luck in your journey.

  16. #4276

    Powerized logo missing

    Here is a Spring training image of a Louisville Slugger without the Powerized logo. Does not seem right. Had been there since 1931 (I think). Big government..LOL.

    NoLogo.JPG

  17. #4277
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    7,936
    Quote Originally Posted by CB22 View Post
    Here is a Spring training image of a Louisville Slugger without the Powerized logo. Does not seem right. Had been there since 1931 (I think). Big government..LOL.
    That does look weird.....do you know why they took it off this season?
    In memory of "Catchingcoach" - Dave Weaver: February 28, 1955 - June 17, 2011

  18. #4278
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Louisville, Ky
    Posts
    1,083
    Quote Originally Posted by Batman53 View Post
    Tom Hagen: I'm going to make a series of statements about wood bats. In the interest of full disclosure, I'm the inventor and manufacturer of a laminated all wood bat, the PowerWood bat. Also, BMH (or anybody) may want to chime in if they see things differently. As far as BMH recommending you buy a Phoenix bat, I didn't go back and look but perhaps you missed in your reading that the "H" is for Hillerich. Thus his expertise on LS bats. Before making bats I was a master carpenter and designed and built homes for 30 years and learned a lot about wood in general. I've also coached the game for many years and focus on hitting and pitching mechanics. I have a son who pitches in college and one who plays in high school.

    1. Every wood bat has just so many "bad" hits in it. Some more and some less depending on the piece of wood.
    2. The forces in the bat/ball collision are huge. It only lasts one millisecond but averages 8000 psi.
    3. If you hit the ball on the "sweet spot" of the bat all the time, your conventional wood bat will last a long time (generally).
    4. As the contact point moves away from the sweet spot, either direction, those forces put the bat into sometimes catastrophic bending modes. (see high speed video from Baseball Research Center on my website)
    5. All the maple and ash for bats come from the same general forests, mostly in the Appalachian range. Some areas may be more conducive to growing trees that are more favorable for bats but this can jump around as well depending on climate, soil types and mix of hardwoods in the area. No bat maker has a monopoly on "good" wood.
    6. Quality of conventional wood bats depends more on the bat maker and how much time they spend "culling" what they perceive as good bat wood from "bad" bat wood.
    7. Even with best efforts by a conscientious bat maker, it is still wood. It's not magic. If you hit on the label or on the end of the barrel, the bat can break and it doesn't matter if you spent $130 or $50. I've seen bats that cost $130 break in the first at-bat and $50 bats that lasted a long time. (see #3)
    8. Learning to hit with wood if you've always used metal can be expensive using conventional wood bats due to the fact that you didn't have to "pay" for bad swings while swinging metal bats. You got helped out by NASA metallurgical engineers. Swinging with wood requires more emphasis being placed on getting the "right" part of the bat on the ball than does swinging with metal. The sweet spot counts more that just swinging hard. If you play golf, you know this.
    9, I can't attest to the number but I understand that the average MLB players goes through about 100 bats per season. (Don't quote me on this)
    10 You will hear guys swear by this brand of bat or that brand of bat but again, none of them are magic and unbreakable. This depends more on you. Baseball players like different bats for all kinds of reasons and some of them may be pretty strange. Don't try to figure it out. You'll pop a vein in your head.
    11. The game of baseball should be played with wood bats. (Whoops, I devolved into opinion. I better stop)

    I just want to shed some light on the world of wood bats so that you don't have unrealistic expectations. Just remember that when you get a hit with a wood bat, you really got a hit based on your skill with the bat and it just plain feels better.

    Good luck in your journey.
    I did recommend Charlie "Lefty" from Phoenix, a good friend of mine. He is a competitor but I can't say anything bad about his product. When I wrote that statement, we were not offering a large barrel maple bat for retail. That is about to change and we will be offering another species for retail too.
    Last edited by BMH; 03-06-2012 at 09:05 AM.

  19. #4279
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Louisville, Ky
    Posts
    1,083
    Quote Originally Posted by CB22 View Post
    Here is a Spring training image of a Louisville Slugger without the Powerized logo. Does not seem right. Had been there since 1931 (I think). Big government..LOL.
    One of the rules they are trying to strictly enforce this year is the center brand has to start 18in from the knob. We use very old machinery to put these brands on bats, most of these machines have been in use by us since the 1920's. It's tradition. The problem for us is a lot of the newer models have more aggressive/curved tapers leading to the barrel so it isn't as flat. Usually we move the CB around to get it on properly. With this rule it isn't as easy with some models so we chose to leave off the "Powerized" logo to make the CB go on easier.

    We are currently working with MLB on new logos so hopefully we will see something soon.

  20. #4280
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Bend, Oregon
    Posts
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by BMH View Post
    I did recommend Charlie "Lefty" from Phoenix, a good friend of mine. He is a competitor but I can't say anything bad about his product. When I wrote that statement, we were not offering a large barrel maple bat for retail. That is about to change and we will be offering another species for retail too.
    Good on ya for doing that. I do the same when called for. Some guys worry WAY too much about stuff like that. Would that be Fagus Sylvatica?

    Notice on the Spring Training pic above where the ball marks are.
    Last edited by Batman53; 03-06-2012 at 09:24 AM.

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