View Poll Results: Should Yadier Molina be a Hall of Famer when he retires?

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  • Yes

    9 16.67%
  • No

    24 44.44%
  • Maybe

    16 29.63%
  • Not a Hall of Famer, but he has Hall of Fame potential

    5 9.26%
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Thread: Yadier Molina

  1. #1
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    Yadier Molina

    Yadier Molina has been in the big leagues for eight seasons and has hit .274 with 55 home runs and 390 RBI in 944 games. He has been an All-Star three times and he has won four straight Gold Glove Awards. In addition, he has received MVP votes twice, placing as high as 21st in the balloting.

    He has always performed well in the postseason, hitting .309 with 54 hits, 13 doubles, two home runs and 23 RBI in 50 playoff games. He has hit over .333 in a series four times, peaking at .412. In large part due to his solid hitting, his team has lost only three of the 11 series in which he's played, and he already has two World Series rings to his name.

    Molina has led catchers in defensive games at that position twice, as well as assists twice and caught stealing percentage three times. In the last category, he is currently second among active catchers. He is 27th all-time in catcher fielding percentage.

    Statistically, Molina is similar to Sammy White, Al Todd, Pat Borders, Ray Fosse, Clint Courtney, Brian Schneider, Ray Mueller, Ed McFarland, John Flaherty and Harry Danning. His third-most similar comp through age 28 is Hall of Famer Al Lopez.

    The Fan EloRater places Molina at #878, ahead of Jimmy Johnston, Rick Burleson and Michael Cuddyer, but behind Eric Karros, Bill Virdon and Don Slaught.

    What do you think about Yadier Molina? When all is said and done, will he have had a Hall of Fame career? Does he have Hall of Fame potential?

  2. #2
    Molina reminds me of shortstop Ed Brinkman (I grew up in DC), who had a totally mediocre career until he put together 2 reasonably decent years at age 27-28, then descended into the rest of a mediocre career. Both played key defensive positions and were average or slightly below average in OPS+ (except for 1 or 2 years).

    Like Brinkman, Molina has zero HoF points in my book. Even if he were to repeat his 2011 season for a few more years, (which is likely not to happen at all), he will barely reach 100 OPS+ and 20 WAR. One and done at voting time.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by drstrangelove View Post
    Molina reminds me of shortstop Ed Brinkman (I grew up in DC), who had a totally mediocre career until he put together 2 reasonably decent years at age 27-28, then descended into the rest of a mediocre career. Both played key defensive positions and were average or slightly below average in OPS+ (except for 1 or 2 years).

    Like Brinkman, Molina has zero HoF points in my book. Even if he were to repeat his 2011 season for a few more years, (which is likely not to happen at all), he will barely reach 100 OPS+ and 20 WAR. One and done at voting time.
    Based on position and age decline trends, Molina is on track for a 30 WAR career, not 20. Still not a HOFer, of course.
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  4. #4
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    He will need to rack up some more significant defensive seasons, while repeating his offensive numbers from last year for a few more seasons. The guy is ridiculous with a glove in his hand or the ball in his hand and runners on the move. He leads all current players in pick-off's (I believe) at a blistering 41 in 8 years and simply shuts down the running game by putting on his gear. He's never been outside the top 3 in Caught Stealing % in his 8 year career (even as a 21 year old), but is 11th in total number caught stealing among active C's. He is #2 behind Ivan Rodriguez in Caught Stealing %, just 0.72 behind. Both are a full % point ahead of the next guy and twice as good as those towards the bottom of the list.

    For some running game perspecitve, he has allowed a similar number of stolen bases in his 8 year career that McCann and Suzuki allowed LAST SEASON combined and he's picked off more than 7 time more runners. Good lord... Silver Slugger, perrennial All-Star and all that, but McCann has allowed 519 stolen bases in 7 seasons? Didn't know he was THAT bad.

    Molina will need a few more special postseason performcances and a few moments, some more defensive numbers, and at 28, might have the time to do enough to hang around on the ballot for a few years. Perhaps the C's that are eligible around the time he is may be few?

    I'm voting Maybe....
    Last edited by StanTheMan; 03-11-2012 at 12:48 PM.
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  5. #5
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    Molina may be the best defensive catcher since Johnny Bench. Unfortunately, he doesn't hit like Johnny Bench. He's a lot of fun to watch, but not a Hall-of Famer.
    What's the rumpus?

  6. #6
    He's made a big improvement with the stick, but has a long way to go before he could be a serious HOF candidate. Best defensive catcher I've ever seen with the Cardinals.
    It Might Be? It Could Be?? It Is!

  7. #7
    great defender but I don't think his bat is good enough. the requirements for a catcher is lower for other positions but I think even a very good defender should have at least a 105 OPS+.

    I really like yadier but his 88 OPS+ is just average (maybe a tad above for a catcher). last season was very good but since he turns 30 this year I don't expect his OPS+ raise by much from now on.

    he also has only 14 WAR to date. I know WAR is unfair against catchers (because they play a lot fewer games) but still he is only on pace for about 35 WAR at best. this is very low even for a catcher considering HOF standard.

    he would need to have unusual longevity and a "late peak" for a catcher to have a chance. basically at least repeat 2011 5 times which is highly unlikely considering that he turns 30 and catchers decline earlier because it is tougher than standing around in the OF.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanTheMan View Post
    Hbut McCann has allowed 519 stolen bases in 7 seasons? Didn't know he was THAT bad.
    In McCann's defense, part of the reason he allows so many stolen bases is Tommy Hanson's slow and deliberate delivery. People ran like wild on Tommy the past two years (63 SB, 7 CS). McCann isn't a defeensive wizard by any stretch of the imagination, but I think that skews the numbers a little.

    Molina reminds me of Del Crandall historically, so that's a good sign. if he can get a step up better than that, he's a Hall of Famer.

  9. #9
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    Crazy numbers w Hanson. Holy *^%# that's bad but that's only 1/3 of his SB allowed last year.
    "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

  10. #10
    I love his game but he seems very Tony Pena to me. Not really having any sort of shot at the Hall.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanTheMan View Post
    Crazy numbers w Hanson. Holy *^%# that's bad but that's only 1/3 of his SB allowed last year.
    Derek Lowe had a huge amount last year too, 26-30. Hanson's going to try a quicker delivery and Derek Lowe isn't with the team anymore.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post
    In McCann's defense, part of the reason he allows so many stolen bases is Tommy Hanson's slow and deliberate delivery. People ran like wild on Tommy the past two years (63 SB, 7 CS).
    Reminds me of the 2007 Padres. Players went for 44 SB and 0 CS on Chris Young. The Padres as a team allowed 189 steals and gunned down only 20. Josh Bard was their primary catcher. The previous year, players ran for 41 steals in 45 tries on Young, making his two year total 85 and 4.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew C. View Post
    Based on position and age decline trends, Molina is on track for a 30 WAR career, not 20. Still not a HOFer, of course.
    You are exactly right....I read the wrong column! So, my post is useless now.

    Ok, second chance: I agree he could hit around around 30 WAR, but that still is weak for the HoF.

  14. #14
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    The fabulous Molinas:
    Code:
    Player          WAR/pos OPS+ Rfield   PA From   To   Age    G  HR RBI   BA  OBP  SLG                      Tm
    Yadier Molina      14.1   88     81 3497 2004 2011 21-28  944  55 390 .274 .331 .377                     STL
    Bengie Molina       8.1   86      5 5159 1998 2010 23-35 1362 144 711 .274 .307 .411     ANA-LAA-TOR-SFG-TOT
    Jose Molina         3.4   66     35 1961 1999 2011 24-36  666  29 163 .241 .286 .344 CHC-ANA-LAA-TOT-NYY-TOR
    Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

    Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

  15. #15
    how would you rate yadiers defense? not that I think that makes him a HOFer but I think his defense is really great. especially that arm is amazing.

    Is he on par defensively with a prime Ivan rodriguez?
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  16. #16
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    Yadier's easily the best defender at catcher in the game today, he's coming off a career season at the plate, and he's been the everyday catcher for two WS winners. He's got four straight GG and three straight All-Star nods

    He's barely halfway into his career, so way too soon to say, but this is the trajectory of a guy who'll have a good argument, particularly if he continues to improve or even hold this peak for a few years.

  17. #17
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    I don't see it happening. People talk as if Molina hit like Babe Ruth last year..and maybe he did compared to some of his other seasons, but he still only had 3.9 WAR. This is a pretty good total, but if that's your career high, you're not going to be a HOF candidate. To put it into perspective, Pudge Rodriguez matched or surpassed that total 9 times in his career. Keep in mind that Molina is 29, and last year was FAR better than any of his previous seasons. If he managed to match last season's stats for the next 10 years, then he would probably be a borderline candidate.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by willshad View Post
    I don't see it happening. People talk as if Molina hit like Babe Ruth last year..and maybe he did compared to some of his other seasons, but he still only had 3.9 WAR. This is a pretty good total, but if that's your career high, you're not going to be a HOF candidate. To put it into perspective, Pudge Rodriguez matched or surpassed that total 9 times in his career. Keep in mind that Molina is 29, and last year was FAR better than any of his previous seasons. If he managed to match last season's stats for the next 10 years, then he would probably be a borderline candidate.
    I agree with your post. however I do think that WAR is unfair to catchers because of the lower playing time so the WAR cutoff for catchers should probably be lower than for other position players. maybe 45-50 instead of 55-60. still molina is not getting anwhere near that. catchers decline earlier so having the first really good season at the plate at 29 is not a good sign.
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  19. #19
    I voted Maybe.
    He's like a Bob Boone with even better defense.
    Molina's gonna need a long career (18+ seasons) , several more ASGs, a continued defensive rep. (more GGs will help in the voters' eyes), stay with a contender. Even then, he still would only barely be a HOFer, not an obvious choice. So Maybe, because he's not quite out of the race yet.

  20. #20
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    As good as Yadier's defense is, it's not measurably better than Boone's, who was a genuine all-timer behind the dish.

    Quote Originally Posted by dgarza View Post
    I voted Maybe.
    He's like a Bob Boone with even better defense.
    Molina's gonna need a long career (18+ seasons) , several more ASGs, a continued defensive rep. (more GGs will help in the voters' eyes), stay with a contender. Even then, he still would only barely be a HOFer, not an obvious choice. So Maybe, because he's not quite out of the race yet.

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