Kevin Brown HOFer?

[soberdennis]

For the record, Brown did retire (with a noteworthy lack of fanfare) before spring training began this season.

He won't ever make the Hall. He's borderline on the traditional numbers, and as much as sabermetrics helps him, intangibles hurt him at least as much.

Then who starte d the game Tuesday night wearing a Detroit uni?

[KCGHOST]

Old thread, but I wonder if he could be compared to Mussina or Schilling in any way?

They are very, very similar. They have very similar neutral won loss records, RSAA scores, and DERA's. Almost peas in a pod. Unfortunately for Brown, the other two are still pitching and can do things to capture the popular imagination. Mussina can easily reach 250+ wins next season. Schilling could get to 220+. And both of those guys might get the opportunity to do something in the post-season that will enhance their reputations.

[Myankee4life]

Then who starte d the game Tuesday night wearing a Detroit uni?

Not Brown.

[Outta Here]

I'm nit saying he deserves to be there, but I think he'll be elected.

[Blackout]

Brown's 96 and 98 seasons are pure dominance, and his last season in LA wasn't too shabby either

[digglahhh]

I think his career is a lot more impressive than he generally gets credit for I could understand selecting him, I have mixed feelings myself.

One thing that makes me somewhat sympathetic to his cause is that I think a hitter who compared to his peers the way Brown does to his pitching contemporaries would make the Hall. That's just a feeling I have.

[SABR Matt]

I think his career is a lot more impressive than he generally gets credit for I could understand selecting him, I have mixed feelings myself.

One thing that makes me somewhat sympathetic to his cause is that I think a hitter who compared to his peers the way Brown does to his pitching contemporaries would make the Hall. That's just a feeling I have.

Brown's career is kinda short in terms of total IP but I have him is a good solid middle-tier HOF candidate. He's got the DIPS credentials and a lot of the traditional stats look good as well...

[Matthew C.]

Brown's career is kinda short in terms of total IP but I have him is a good solid middle-tier HOF candidate. He's got the DIPS credentials and a lot of the traditional stats look good as well...

This will save a lot of posts...I agree with you on this one.

[Mariano_Rivera]

He seems to have the same problems as Mussina, meaning they never won a Cy Young award.

[baseball junkie]

Aren't we talking about the same pitcher who a few years back punched a wall and broke his hand in the middle of a playoff race? I seem to recall that left his team in a fairly bad spot. I voted no. He is borderline and if he had stayed healthy through out his career he'd be a lock -- but how many players can that be said about?

That being said he's probably better than a third of the pitchers currently enshrined in Cooperstown.

[Mariano_Rivera]

Aren't we talking about the same pitcher who a few years back punched a wall and broke his hand in the middle of a playoff race? I seem to recall that left his team in a fairly bad spot. I voted no. He is borderline and if he had stayed healthy through out his career he'd be a lock -- but how many players can that be said about?

That being said he's probably better than a third of the pitchers currently enshrined in Cooperstown.

Then shouldn`t he deserve to be in?

[baseball junkie]

Then shouldn`t he deserve to be in?

No, the HOF doesn't need to be watered down any more than it already is.

[Mariano_Rivera]

No, the HOF doesn't need to be watered down any more than it already is.

But what about the era. Think about how well he did in an incredibly offensively bloated era

[SABR Matt]

This will save a lot of posts...I agree with you on this one.

LOL...well STLCards2 on the issue of Glavine I may yet come to agree with you if my current research project tells me something the DIPS-based research did not. We shall see...

[baseball junkie]

But what about the era. Think about how well he did in an incredibly offensively bloated era

Going into the season Brown ranks 45 all-time in ERA+, behind such great pitchers as Mike Timlin, Barry Zito, Mark Buehrle and Kent Tekulve.

But his 214 ERA+ in 1996 is impressive.

[RuthMayBond]

Going into the season Brown ranks 45 all-time in ERA+, behind such great pitchers as Mike Timlin, Barry Zito, Mark Buehrle and Kent Tekulve.

How many innings did you say those workhorses had?

[SABR Matt]

Going into the season Brown ranks 45 all-time in ERA+, behind such great pitchers as Mike Timlin, Barry Zito, Mark Buehrle and Kent Tekulve.

But his 214 ERA+ in 1996 is impressive.

You do realize that comparing reliever and starter ERA+ figures is stupid, right? The fewer innings you throw...the larger the standard deviation in ERA+ (the bigger the swings in ERA).

Kent Tekulve (one of the greatest relievers of all time, though often forgotten) and Mike Timlin are not fair comparisons to Brown...and by the time he's done, Mark Buehrle (who is also short on innings because his career is young) and Barry Zito may themselves be hall of famers.

[DoubleX]

Going into the season Brown ranks 45 all-time in ERA+, behind such great pitchers as Mike Timlin, Barry Zito, Mark Buehrle and Kent Tekulve.

But his 214 ERA+ in 1996 is impressive.

Let's put a qualifier on this and see where Brown ranks. Say 2000 IP, which is really a pretty modest figure. This will filter out all of the relievers who really can't be compared to starters, all the current young players that will likely drop off as they age and decline, and players that had very short careers (like Joe Wood, Jim Devlin, and Spud Chandler).

So now Brown's ranking is 24 (down from 41). Not too bad.

[538280]

At first my reaction was "definitely not". When I looked at the statistics I think he probably is deserving actually. Quantity is a bit lower than I'd want, but he's also pitching in the era of low IP totals, so it's not as bad as it looks. His quantity stats are very solid even for this era, and DIPS measures are very friendly to him. I think he has a good case to be right after Maddux and Clemens for 1990s pitchers. I would say yes to Kevin Brown after looking at him more.

[Mariano_Rivera]

Can somebody please explain what ERA+ is

[538280]

Can somebody please explain what ERA+ is

The player's ERA compared to league and park adjusted. The actual formula is (leagueERA/playerERA)*Park Factor. .

[Mariano_Rivera]

The player's ERA compared to league and park adjusted. The actual formula is (leagueERA/playerERA)*Park Factor. .

Ahh thanks

[baseball junkie]

You do realize that comparing reliever and starter ERA+ figures is stupid, right? The fewer innings you throw...the larger the standard deviation in ERA+ (the bigger the swings in ERA).

Kent Tekulve (one of the greatest relievers of all time, though often forgotten) and Mike Timlin are not fair comparisons to Brown...and by the time he's done, Mark Buehrle (who is also short on innings because his career is young) and Barry Zito may themselves be hall of famers.

If Barry Zito (1,355.1 IP) or Mark Buerhle (1,347 IP) ever make the Hall of Fame, I'll eat my hat! And since when is 1,350 IP short on innings? That virtually seven full seasons.

[yankillaz]

Too bad for him, he's the 10th best pitcher of his time...

At least for me...

1. Pedro
2. Clemens
3. Johnson
4. Maddux
5. Glavine
6. Schilling
7. Mussina
8. Cone
9. Smoltz
10. Brown

Thet doesn't gets him in the Hall.

[Pine Tar]

Too bad for him, he's the 10th best pitcher of his time...

At least for me...

1. Pedro
2. Clemens
3. Johnson
4. Maddux
5. Glavine
6. Schilling
7. Mussina
8. Cone
9. Smoltz
10. Brown

Thet doesn't gets him in the Hall.

There are certainly reasons to believe that Brown was better than 6-9 on this list. Actually, you would be really hard pressed to convince that anyone other than the top 5 on your list are better than Brown. Still, I say no for Mr. Nasty. Just too many injuries.