View Poll Results: Should Gil Hodges be inducted into the HOF?

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  • Yes, as a player, only.

    16 17.20%
  • Yes, as a manager only.

    0 0%
  • Yes, based on the combined value of his playing and managing

    39 41.94%
  • No.

    38 40.86%
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Thread: Gil Hodges

  1. #176
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    Gil Hodges HOFer anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by RuthMayBond
    How easy do you think it was to play in Cleveland for thirty-plus years figuring you'd never be in the postseason? I think the guys at that level have such a desire that they'd take being under pressure. But it reminds me of something a neighbor said. He complained in the mid-90s when the Tribe started doing something, saying he couldn't walk down the day of the game and get great seats. I said, huh?, you've been able to do that for almost FORTY YEARS, how about the playoffs for a change?
    If you are a good player it can't be easy being on a loser but there is no pressure like being on a pennant winner so they are basically playing for their stats. I feel bad for you Indians fans who never had anything real to root for after July most years, I'm happy they turned it around in the 90's because I'm a baseball fan. Your friend that complained was just happy to go to the game and get good seats I guess he was so use to losing that he didn't care anymore. Then the Indians have fans like you that were tired of losing and now you have been rewarded with better teams since the 90's, you have a pretty good team this year Shapiro has done a good job.
    Lets support Gil Hodges for The Hall of Fame in 2011.

  2. #177
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    Gil Hodges HOFer anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleX
    Interesting side-note to this point. Those loser Cubs teams have 3 Hall of Famers (Banks, Williams, Jenkins), though Santo should really be in. While Hodge's winner Dodgers teams have 7 Hall of Famers - Robinson, Campanella, Snider, Reese, Koufax, Drysdale, and Alston. I'd say that those winning teams have been compensated in the Hall of Fame. I'm not saying this as an argument to keep Hodges out, just pointing out that the success of Hodges' teams has been recognized by the Hall.
    You can't consider Koufax or Drysdale they made there HOF stats in LA, if a player is deserving it doesn't matter how many teammates are in the HOF, Gil Hodges was a big part of those Dodgers teams and is deserving.
    Lets support Gil Hodges for The Hall of Fame in 2011.

  3. #178
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    Gil Hodges HOFer anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by RuthMayBond
    The myth continues

    <most players in that situation are playing for their next contract it is human nature.>

    It all depends upon whether they just signed a contract or not
    Back when these guys played they played on one year contracts, Ralph Kiner led the National league in home runs and Branch Rickey cut his salary, Ralph asked why and Branch said we could have finished last without you.
    Lets support Gil Hodges for The Hall of Fame in 2011.

  4. #179
    wamby Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by kramer_47
    In 1947 the Dodgers needed a first baseman so Jackie got the nod Stanky was at second in 1947 but in 1948 they traded Stanky to the Braves to make room for Robby at second and Gil at first.
    That's not true about Hodges. In Spring Training 1948 the Dodgers had about seven candidates to take over at first and Hodges was not one of those candidates. The Sporting News (4/7/48) listed the Dodgers first base candidates as Tommy Brown, Dick Whitman, Preston Ward, Eddie Miksis, Jackie Robinson, Ray Sanders (injured at the time and soon to be returned to the Boston Braves) and Pete Reiser, who TSN made it sound like as being all but washed up. early in spring training, Durocher said that his best second baseman was Eddie Miksis. I don't know if Durochers was examining Robinson's waistline when he said that. Preston Ward began the season at first for Brooklyn, Gil Hodges was the opening day catcher for Brooklyn.
    From the beginning of the season until the end of June, Ward and Robinson alternated at first, neither performing all that well. Ward was a 20 year old kid who probably belonged at Montreal and Robimson was struggling with his weight problem and was still playing out of position. The first day that I have seen an account of Hodges playing first was June 29, 1948 when the Phillies played at Ebbets Field. Hodges began a hot streak at bat and stuck as first baseman. I think moving Hodges was probably the last productive thing that Durocher did for the Dodgers.

    Hodges ended up playing 96 games at first (he caught in 38 games), Robinson played 30 games at first (also 116 at second and 6 at third), Ward played 38 games at first. Tommy Brown played one game at first.

    Rickey may have had a plan for Robinson, but there didn't seem to be any plan in the off-season for Hodges exceot to hold on to as a catcher.

    The Dodgers infield seemed pretty unsettled for almost the entire first half of the 1948 season. I've read accounts about the Flatbush Faithful ready to run both Rickey and Durocher out of town after an extended losing streak at the end of May.

  5. #180
    wamby Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleX
    Interesting side-note to this point. Those loser Cubs teams have 3 Hall of Famers (Banks, Williams, Jenkins), though Santo should really be in. While Hodge's winner Dodgers teams have 7 Hall of Famers - Robinson, Campanella, Snider, Reese, Koufax, Drysdale, and Alston. I'd say that those winning teams have been compensated in the Hall of Fame. I'm not saying this as an argument to keep Hodges out, just pointing out that the success of Hodges' teams has been recognized by the Hall.
    If you're counting Alston as a Hall of Famer for the Dodgers than you should add Leo Durocher to the Cubs list.

  6. #181
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    Gil Hodges HOFer anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by RuthMayBond
    The point was, why would they move Jackie OFF first if he was already playing it and Hodges was capable of playing second?
    Because 2nd base was Jackie's natural position.
    Lets support Gil Hodges for The Hall of Fame in 2011.

  7. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by wamby
    That's not true about Hodges. In Spring Training 1948 the Dodgers had about seven candidates to take over at first and Hodges was not one of those candidates. The Sporting News (4/7/48) listed the Dodgers first base candidates as Tommy Brown, Dick Whitman, Preston Ward, Eddie Miksis, Jackie Robinson, Ray Sanders (injured at the time and soon to be returned to the Boston Braves) and Pete Reiser, who TSN made it sound like as being all but washed up. early in spring training, Durocher said that his best second baseman was Eddie Miksis. I don't know if Durochers was examining Robinson's waistline when he said that. Preston Ward began the season at first for Brooklyn, Gil Hodges was the opening day catcher for Brooklyn.
    From the beginning of the season until the end of June, Ward and Robinson alternated at first, neither performing all that well. Ward was a 20 year old kid who probably belonged at Montreal and Robimson was struggling with his weight problem and was still playing out of position. The first day that I have seen an account of Hodges playing first was June 29, 1948 when the Phillies played at Ebbets Field. Hodges began a hot streak at bat and stuck as first baseman. I think moving Hodges was probably the last productive thing that Durocher did for the Dodgers.

    Hodges ended up playing 96 games at first (he caught in 38 games), Robinson played 30 games at first (also 116 at second and 6 at third), Ward played 38 games at first. Tommy Brown played one game at first.

    Rickey may have had a plan for Robinson, but there didn't seem to be any plan in the off-season for Hodges exceot to hold on to as a catcher.

    The Dodgers infield seemed pretty unsettled for almost the entire first half of the 1948 season. I've read accounts about the Flatbush Faithful ready to run both Rickey and Durocher out of town after an extended losing streak at the end of May.
    Great research Wamby, I knew Hodges played part of the year at catcher but I thought they had in mind to switch Robinson to his natural 2nd base position when they traded Stanky. Obviously they didn't have a plan if they said Miksis was their best 2nd baseman and played Ward at first, it had alot to do with Leo he never saw eye to eye with Jackie maybe Rickey twisted his arm and they made the 2 best moves they could by June 1948.
    Lets support Gil Hodges for The Hall of Fame in 2011.

  8. #183
    wamby Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by kramer_47
    Great research Wamby, I knew Hodges played part of the year at catcher but I thought they had in mind to switch Robinson to his natural 2nd base position when they traded Stanky. Obviously they didn't have a plan if they said Miksis was their best 2nd baseman and played Ward at first, it had alot to do with Leo he never saw eye to eye with Jackie maybe Rickey twisted his arm and they made the 2 best moves they could by June 1948.
    I think that Rickey had a definite plan to move Robinson to 2B in 1948 and I'm guessing that Leo probably thought the same thing. But I think Leo was also unhappy about losing Stanky. Stanky didn't help matters by going to press saying that Leo left him in the lurch.

    My feeling is that Leo played up guys like Miksis and Ward as a heavy handed way to motivate Robinson. I think Leo was excited about the prosppect of managing a player like Robinson and was extremely mad to see Robinson come to camp 30 pounds overweight. I've read that Leo took it personally, that he didn't get the same Robinson that Burt Shotten had.

    I think that Leo's first great move with the Dodgers was to bench himself and install Pee Wee Reese at short. I think his last great move was to install Hodges at first, before he moved to the Giants

  9. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by wamby
    I think that Rickey had a definite plan to move Robinson to 2B in 1948 and I'm guessing that Leo probably thought the same thing. But I think Leo was also unhappy about losing Stanky. Stanky didn't help matters by going to press saying that Leo left him in the lurch.

    My feeling is that Leo played up guys like Miksis and Ward as a heavy handed way to motivate Robinson. I think Leo was excited about the prosppect of managing a player like Robinson and was extremely mad to see Robinson come to camp 30 pounds overweight. I've read that Leo took it personally, that he didn't get the same Robinson that Burt Shotten had.

    I think that Leo's first great move with the Dodgers was to bench himself and install Pee Wee Reese at short. I think his last great move was to install Hodges at first, before he moved to the Giants
    It was Leo's own fault he didn't get to manage Robinson when he came up, he was suspended for gambling in 1947. I think Leo not seeing eye to eye with Jackie because of his weight and I guess other things got him fired in 1948 but it didn't take the Giants long to pick him up as their manager. Bu t Leo is the guy to make the big changes in the Dodgers, Hodges to 1st, Robinson to 2nd and in the middle of 1948 Campy became the catcher before Leo was fired. I don't think Leo really wanted to move to the rival Giants I think he preferred being in Brooklyn but he just couldn't get along with Branch Rickey and the Dodgers didn't like his life style.
    Lets support Gil Hodges for The Hall of Fame in 2011.

  10. #185
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    Gil Hodges

    I have posted this topic in other forums, but I think it's a good one. I believe that Gil Hodges' HOF candidacy brings up certain issues unique to his candidacy.

    I am a resident of Indian River County, FL, and I attend Dodger spring training games. Even now, there are some oldtimers who still speak about Gil Hodges, and how he should be in the HOF. I also attend Met spring training games, and there, some oldtimers remember the Miracle Mets (I do, too!) and talk of how Hodges, the manager, should be in the HOF.

    Hodges isn't in the HOF, of course. Not as a player, not as a manager. I believe that Hodges is the most highly regarded baseball MAN that is NOT in the HOF.

    I'm leery of proposing the idea, but if Hodges is short as a player, and if he's short as a manager, is it POSSIBLE that Hodges' playing and managing careers could be evaluated together as one, and he be inducted into the HOF on the strength of both combined?

    There isn't really much precedent for this. I thought of Eckersley, and his relieving and starting combined, but Eck really got in on his relief, alone. Same with the Babe; he'd be the greatest ever if he never pitched an inning.

    Hodges is different, though; he had greatness as a player and greatness as a manager, but both were cut short, one on the front end, and one by an early death.

    Hodges, the player, is similar to Tony Perez in BA and in career HRs, but Hodges achieved his career totals in much shorter time. There is an 11 season swath where Hodges built his credentials.

    Hodges had a cup of coffee in 1943 at age 19; a tip that he was a potential star back then. He served in WWII after that; and when he came back to the Dodgers, he encountered two roadblocks. He was blocked off from his position of catcher by Bruce Edwards (who hit .295 in 1947 and was a surprisingly good prospect who was pushed aside by a better prospect, Roy Campanella) and from first base by Jackie Robinson (who played first all of 1947). Hodges split time between 1B and C in 1948 before establishing himself at 1B the next year. He held the position through the end of 1959. His stats in 1958 and 1959 are skewed because he played in the weirdly shaped L. A. Coliseum, which had short foul poles and a deep, deep, deep CF with deep power alleys. The park cut down on power alley HRs, and also cut down on BA.

    Hodges was one of the top four stars of the most successful Dodger teams in history. The Dodgers won six pennants and two world championships with Hodges at first, and he was a critical player; the Dodgers probably would not have won some of those pennants without Hodges. His performance was considered central to the Dodgers' success. Hodges rates behind Snider and Robinson, and, in most years, ahead of Campy, but CLEARLY ahead of Furillo, Drysdale, and some others. Subjectively, I consider Hodges to be more important to the Dodgers than Tony Perez was to the Reds. He was an 8 time all-star, and was the best 1B of the 1950s. He retired second in career HRs for NL right handed batters.

    As a manager, Gil Hodges took a terrible Senator team that was populated with the expansion draft bottom of the barrel personnel and improved it every year. Hodges was 76-85 his last year with the Senators. Those of you who know nothing but free agency have no idea how tough it was to build a talent base back in the reserve clause era when your expansion team started with the crummiest players around. As Met manager, he improved them a whole lot in 1968 (12 games), then came the Miracle. The Miracle happened, in no small part, because of Hodges' genius in platooning:

    In RF, Hodges platooned Ron Swoboda and Art Shamsky

    At 3B, Hodges platooned Wayne Garrett and Ed Charles

    At 2B, Hodges platooned Ken Boswell and Al Weis.

    At 1B, Hodges platooned Ed Kranepool and Donn Clendennon

    In two of these cases (Boswell and Garrett), Hodges made these guys first time platoon regulars. Hodges recognized their ability to get on base. In RF, Hodges recognized Shamsky as a pre-Phelps Ken Phelps; a platoon superstar, and played him at the expense of Ron Swoboda, who was a fan favorite, but who was clearly not living up to the hype.

    Hodges also discovered his top fireman; Tug McGraw, taking him out of the rotation and making him a star reliever. He used a 4 man rotation, but the back end was a bit weak. Hodges used Don Cardwell, Jim McAndrew, and a young and erratic Nolan Ryan as his 4th starter. (Hodges hoped Ryan would step forward and take the job, but that didn't happen in 1969.)

    The 1970-71 Mets each went 83-79 finishing 3rd each time. The Mets were 6 games out in 1970, but 14 out in 1971. Hodges died suddenly in 1972 spring training.

    Had he lived, Hodges would, I am sure, have been a HOF manager. Had he come up 2-3 seasons earlier, Hodges would have had 400 HRs, and probably would have made the HOF with that. He didn't. No manager has made the HOF managing as few seasons as Hodges, and most players who do what Hodges do are NOT in the HOF.

    So what about the combined value of his playing and managing? At the risk of setting a bad precedent, would it be appropriate to induct Hodges as both a player AND a manager? By that, I mean inducting him for the value of his entire career in baseball.

    If it could be sui generis, if Hodges's case could not be a precedent, I would support his induction based on the combined value of his playing and his managing career. Hodges was famous, and he was special. And he was a great human being as well; Don Cardwell has said that Gil was the greatest man he ever knew in baseball, and the Mets were not a team riddled with dissension. Hodges was a great baseball man, with a great career in baseball, and I support honoring him that way.
    "I do not care if half the league strikes. Those who do it will encounter quick retribution. All will be suspended and I don't care if it wrecks the National League for five years. This is the United States of America and one citizen has as much right play as another. The National League will go down the line with Robinson whatever the consequences. You will find if you go through with your intention that you have been guilty of complete madness."

    NL President Ford Frick, 1947

  11. #186
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    Hodges had one good season as a manager, which isn't enough to really alter how I view him as a player. Managers have to have multiple successes to impress me. "Success" begins at being above .500. If you do well with project teams but don't get the wins and playoff appearances and more as a manager, you're nowhere. Ask Gene Mauch, whose chops as a manager are far better proven than Hodges', IMO. Hodges also gets no slack for his untimely demise.

    I have no doubt Hodges was a wonderful guy, but that means nothing to me in a HOF debate, sorry to say. The "morals clause" may be a legitimate reason to keep a guy out, but I have no desire to let anyone in through that door, or we'll never hear the end of variations on "he was a nice guy".

    Which gets us to Hodges' play. He played the equvialent of 1 1/2 to 2 seasons less than Perez (800 PA IIRC), and I'm comfortable saying that Perez with his greater playing time is in, though not by much, and Hodges, with his lesser playing time, is out, though not by much.

    The one escape hatch I have for Hodges is that although he didn't perform for a couple of seasons after returning from the service, if someone can demonstrate a persuasive case in terms of specific aspects of the game Hodges needed to develop that his years in the service in WWII impeded, I might be persuaded to raise Hodges over the line, though still a tad behind Perez. To date, no one has made that case to me.

    Jim Albright
    Last edited by jalbright; 06-09-2006 at 07:53 PM.
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  12. #187
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    At some point he may get in but if his former Dodger teammates never voted him in why would the other veterns.

  13. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalbright
    Hodges had one good season as a manager, which isn't enough to really alter how I view him as a player. Managers have to have multiple successes to impress me. "Success" begins at being above .500. If you do well with project teams but don't get the wins and playoff appearances and more as a manager, you're nowhere. Ask Gene Mauch, whose chops as a manager are far better proven than Hodges', IMO. Hodges also gets no slack for his untimely demise.
    I disagree strongly with your assessment of Hodges as a manager. I don't know how old you are, but if you are not old enough to remember baseball before free agency, you may not be able to appreciate the job Hodges did with the Washington Senators.

    When Hodges took over the Senators, there was no free agency. An expansion team did not have the option of signing a free agent superstar to generate immediate improvement. Teams had to make trades to improve, and most trades involved rearrangement of talent, or trading today's star for younger minor leaguers in the hope of increasing the team's overall talent base.

    Trading out of trouble was hard for a team like the expansion Senators, however, because of how lousy they were to begin with. The pool of players for the Senators to pick from was nowhere near as good as the pool that, say, the Marlins and Rockies picked from. It was the worst pool ever; the pool pretty much consisted of the guys no one wanted.

    And as for building through the minor league system, there was no free agent draft; that didn't begin until 1965. It was the era of the "bonus baby", and this process favored the richer teams, such as the Yankees, Dodgers, and Cardinals. Besides, such a player was years away from helping the team.

    Consider Hodges' record in that context:

    Managerial Record Glossary

    Year League Team Age G W L WP Finish
    +----+-----------+--------+---+-----+----+----+------+------+
    1963 American Lg Washngtn 39 121 42 79 .347 10
    1964 American Lg Washngtn 40 162 62 100 .383 9
    1965 American Lg Washngtn 41 162 70 92 .432 8
    1966 American Lg Washngtn 42 159 71 88 .447 8
    1967 American Lg Washngtn 43 161 76 85 .472 6

    1968 National Lg NewYorkM 44 163 73 89 .451 9
    1969 NL East NewYorkM 45 162 100 62 .617 WS 1
    1970 NL East NewYorkM 46 162 83 79 .512 3
    1971 NL East NewYorkM 47 162 83 79 .512 3
    +----+-----------+--------+---+-----+----+----+------+------+
    NewYorkM 649 339 309 .523
    Washngtn 765 321 444 .420
    +----+-----------+--------+---+-----+----+----+------+------+
    TOTAL 1414 660 753 .467

    Note the consistent improvement with Washinton; they were ALMOST at .500 by 1967. At that time, no expansion team, save for the Angels, had ever finished above .500. Furthermore, no expansion team showed the consistent improvement the Senators did. The Angels stole some seasons near, or even OVER .500, but they were up and down. (The Angels were the best expansion team of the 61-62 group; they lucked out by finding Dean Chance and Leon Wagner in the expansion draft, as well as a few guys who could hit 20 HRs every so often; they seem to have drafted better than the other teams.)

    Hodges did a great job managing the Senators; that they didn't post a winning record was the result of the awful talent they had. The Mets traded for Hodges, and he brought immediate improvement to the Mets. The 1969 Mets are well documented, but it shouldn't be forgotten that Hodges (A) didn't let them give up, (B) beat a better team to win it all, and (C) did this while platooning at four positions. This is remarkable, and a reflection on the manager, in that he was able to recognize weaknesses and compensate.
    "I do not care if half the league strikes. Those who do it will encounter quick retribution. All will be suspended and I don't care if it wrecks the National League for five years. This is the United States of America and one citizen has as much right play as another. The National League will go down the line with Robinson whatever the consequences. You will find if you go through with your intention that you have been guilty of complete madness."

    NL President Ford Frick, 1947

  14. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalbright
    Hodges had one good season as a manager, which isn't enough to really alter how I view him as a player. Managers have to have multiple successes to impress me. "Success" begins at being above .500. If you do well with project teams but don't get the wins and playoff appearances and more as a manager, you're nowhere. Ask Gene Mauch, whose chops as a manager are far better proven than Hodges', IMO. Hodges also gets no slack for his untimely demise.
    jalbright:

    A little perspective on "one good season as a manager".
    Do you have any concept of the early history of the
    New York Mets?

    This was a team that lost over 100 games in five of
    its first six seasons including a record 120 games in
    their debut year of 1962. I remember those days
    very well.

    This was when the Mets were a national joke-a
    guaranteed punchline for every TV and night club
    comic in the land.

    All Gil Hodges did (in only his second year as Mets
    generalissimo) was to take this seemingly misbegotten
    ragtag team and win 100 games and the NL pennant
    and then upset an Oriole juggernaut in a five game
    World Series.

    That in itself is one hell of an accomplishment, IMHO.

    As to his playing days, he was a starting regular on
    a powerful team that won six pennants and two
    world series over eleven seasons. This accomplishment
    and Hodges' statistics far outshine those of the most
    recent inductee, Bruce Sutter, again IMHO.

    Gill Hodges should have long ago been in the HOF.

    Brownie31

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    I agree that Gil Hodges workings as a manager has faded over time and it's a shame. I still view the "Miracle Mets" of '69 as one of the most improbable stories in sports history.

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    --Hodges might have been a great manager, but he wasn't a successfull manager (excepting 1969). Managers don't get into the Hall of Fame by turning terrible teams into mediocore ones. They get in by winning championships or at least winning alot of games and contending for championships. Hodges had only one Hall of Fame type season as a manager. And that may be one more HoF season than he had as a player.

  17. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by leecemark
    --Hodges might have been a great manager, but he wasn't a successfull manager (excepting 1969). Managers don't get into the Hall of Fame by turning terrible teams into mediocore ones. They get in by winning championships or at least winning alot of games and contending for championships. Hodges had only one Hall of Fame type season as a manager. And that may be one more HoF season than he had as a player.
    Hodges turned a dreadful, godawful team into a world champion.
    This wasn't McCarthy, Stengel, Alston or Houk stepping into an
    already powerful team and winning.

    This was making something out of as near nothing as you can
    get.

    Brownie31

  18. #193
    Well if Hodges were to get in as a combination Manager/Player than Joe Torre should be considered too. It may be redundant as he likley gets in as a straight manager but his playing accomplishments are pretty good too.

    Gold Glove catcher 1965
    MVP 1971
    HOF monitor 96
    HOF stnadards 40.1

    Career .297 hitter 2342 hits, 1185 RBIs

  19. #194
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    I can't believe there are 3 people deluded enough to think that Gil Hodges is a HOF calibar player.

  20. #195
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    No, Gil Hodges shouldn't be within a mile of the HOF. He was a first baseman who put up some nice raw numbers, but when you adjust for context they're not all that great. As a manager, he may have turned an awful team into an okay one, but he only had one year when his team was truly successful. Managers get into the HOF by winning pennnants, not by managing mediocre teams.

    The people who see Hodges as the best 1Bman outside of the Hall, ahead of Dick Allen, are completely delusional.

  21. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by 538280
    No, Gil Hodges shouldn't be within a mile of the HOF. He was a first baseman who put up some nice raw numbers, but when you adjust for context they're not all that great. As a manager, he may have turned an awful team into an okay one, but he only had one year when his team was truly successful. Managers get into the HOF by winning pennnants, not by managing mediocre teams.

    The people who see Hodges as the best 1Bman outside of the Hall, ahead of Dick Allen, are completely delusional.
    Agree with u 100%

  22. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by 538280
    No, Gil Hodges shouldn't be within a mile of the HOF. He was a first baseman who put up some nice raw numbers, but when you adjust for context they're not all that great. As a manager, he may have turned an awful team into an okay one, but he only had one year when his team was truly successful. Managers get into the HOF by winning pennnants, not by managing mediocre teams.

    The people who see Hodges as the best 1Bman outside of the Hall, ahead of Dick Allen, are completely delusional.
    Now I'm sure he belongs. Just kidding,.And as far as Torre, he's a shoe-in.
    Last edited by Yankwood; 06-10-2006 at 09:49 AM.

  23. #198
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    As pointed out here, Hodges may have had some success in improving bad teams--but you don't get into the HOF that way. You get there with multiple contenders/pennant winners/world champs--and maybe not even then. Hodges only managed a little over 1400 games, and had a .467 winning percentage. He had only one team that finished higher than third and/or closer to the lead than six games. He only had three seasons over .500, and two were 83-79 jobs. Those are just not anywhere near HOF credentials--and to me, the only way the combined manager/player bit works is if both parts are close but not quite HOF caliber. So, Hodges' managerial work means nada to me. Sorry.

    Jim Albright
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  24. #199
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    May 2006
    Location
    Under the Knickerbocker beer sign at the Polo Grounds
    Posts
    4,198
    Torre will get in the HOF as a manager, alone. He MIGHT even get in as a player alone. No one doubts that Torre rates ahead of Hodges on both scores at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by jalbright
    As pointed out here, Hodges may have had some success in improving bad teams--but you don't get into the HOF that way. You get there with multiple contenders/pennant winners/world champs--and maybe not even then.
    Maybe you SHOULD get in the HOF that way under some circumstances.
    Last edited by Fuzzy Bear; 06-10-2006 at 06:01 PM.
    "I do not care if half the league strikes. Those who do it will encounter quick retribution. All will be suspended and I don't care if it wrecks the National League for five years. This is the United States of America and one citizen has as much right play as another. The National League will go down the line with Robinson whatever the consequences. You will find if you go through with your intention that you have been guilty of complete madness."

    NL President Ford Frick, 1947

  25. #200
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Western Massachusetts
    Posts
    11,571
    Does anyone have Hodges' RCAP numbers handy? The average 1Bman usually has about a 115 OPS+, Hodges at 120 was barely over that. I would think such a metric would silence the annoying support that generates for Hodges every once in a while. His numbers, when placed in league and park context, are not impressive at all. The number of people voting yes to Hodges as just a player is rather disheartening, and surprising as well, to me.

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