View Poll Results: Is the HOF hype on Pudge true?

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  • Yes!

    114 90.48%
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    12 9.52%
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Thread: Ivan Rodriguez

  1. #126
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    Iam not sure why threads are made about people who are no doubt Hall of Famers like Rodriguez. What position is there to say he is not?

  2. #127
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    Well, this thread started 5 seasons ago, when he had yet to accumulate the amount of counting stats that he has. It was more of a fair question 5 seasons ago for those who look at his counting numbers, even though I agree that he was an easy selection even back then.

    The recent comments seem to focus on if he will get more support than Piazza and if any of the young catchers today could ever catch up to him. I don't see anyone questioning his election.
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  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjpm74 View Post
    I was referring to unparalleled longevity+an excellent offense peak+the highest defensive WAR of any catcher in the history of the game. There's a reason why no one except I-rod has had 2500+ games as a catcher in the history of the game. Even Bob Boone and Carlton Fisk couldn't manage that feat. The only catcher with his level of durability I can think of is Deacon McGuire who wasn't nearly as productive offensively as I-rod. I wouldn't rank I-rod the #1 catcher of all time, but there are very few I'd rank ahead of him.
    Maybe it's me, but I've never been very impressed with Pudge offensively. Even in his prime he seemed to be a guy who hit for a good average, but with only fair power, and no plate discipline. The only time he seemed to be a really good hitter was in 2000, when he missed 70 games, and his rate stats would have likely gone way down if he hadn't gotten hurt. I don't know, maybe it's because he was usually on teams that had much better hitters, he didn't seem that great. Throw in the likely steroid use, and he seems like a league average hitter to me overall. Like I said, he is the Brooks Robinson of catchers...more defensive value than anyone, a certain hall of famer, but in no way top 5 all time at the position. Mauer has already had a superior peak.
    Last edited by willshad; 05-13-2011 at 10:01 PM.

  4. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Bravesfan1984 View Post
    Iam not sure why threads are made about people who are no doubt Hall of Famers like Rodriguez. What position is there to say he is not?
    Canseco named Pudge as a roid user; he said he injected Pudge during their Texas days.

    In an interview, Pudge sort of confessed:

    When asked — in an interview with the Associated Press — about whether his name appears alongside Alex Rodriguez and the other 100+ players who tested positive in the 2003 MLB steroid “survey” the only pitiful response Ivan "Pudge" Rodriguez could muster was, “Only God Knows.”

    He didn't say "of course not" and laugh off the question, he didn't cry "hell no" and grow angry at the insinuation; all he could divulge, all he could manage was a meekly uttered "Only God knows."

    Read more: http://blogcritics.org/sports/articl...#ixzz1N30H32BX









    .
    Last edited by redban; 05-21-2011 at 08:18 PM.

  5. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by willshad View Post
    Maybe it's me, but I've never been very impressed with Pudge offensively. Even in his prime he seemed to be a guy who hit for a good average, but with only fair power, and no plate discipline. The only time he seemed to be a really good hitter was in 2000, when he missed 70 games, and his rate stats would have likely gone way down if he hadn't gotten hurt. I don't know, maybe it's because he was usually on teams that had much better hitters, he didn't seem that great. Throw in the likely steroid use, and he seems like a league average hitter to me overall. Like I said, he is the Brooks Robinson of catchers...more defensive value than anyone, a certain hall of famer, but in no way top 5 all time at the position. Mauer has already had a superior peak.
    His power is actually very good for a catcher. He is 4th among catchers all time in HRs (only behind piazza, fisk and bench). he will certainly end his career with more HRs than mauer.

    But you are right about his patience. his lack of walks really hurt his value a lot. He just didn't walk enough, a .334 career OBP off a .297 average is just terrible.
    Last edited by dominik; 05-22-2011 at 05:35 AM.
    I think walks are overrated unless you can run. If you get a walk and put the pitcher in a stretch, that helps, but the guy who walks and cant run, most of the time hes clogging up the bases for somebody who can run. Dusty Baker.

  6. #131
    Now that he has retired, based on his final career record, how will the voting go for Pudge? Will he garner at least 90% of the vote in his first year on the ballot?

  7. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Cowtipper View Post
    Now that he has retired, based on his final career record, how will the voting go for Pudge? Will he garner at least 90% of the vote in his first year on the ballot?
    no. I'm not even sure if he makes it at all considering the steroid thing. if you just judge his performance of course he is a first ballot guy, probably top3 catcher.
    I think walks are overrated unless you can run. If you get a walk and put the pitcher in a stretch, that helps, but the guy who walks and cant run, most of the time hes clogging up the bases for somebody who can run. Dusty Baker.

  8. #133
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    Pudge was one of my favorite players to watch. A guy on first better not sleep with Pudge behind the plate, mainly because I have never seen anybody catch like him before. I have watched Pudge pick a guy off of first more than once. And forget about stealing on this guy. I believe we watched the greatest defensive catcher ever. And the fact that his career CS%(50% better than the league avg for his career) is an unbreakable record. I hope the steroid rumors are false. If they are false, then Pudge is easily a first ballot HOFer. I believe he's the best all-around catcher since Bench.

  9. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by pheasant View Post
    Pudge was one of my favorite players to watch. A guy on first better not sleep with Pudge behind the plate, mainly because I have never seen anybody catch like him before. I have watched Pudge pick a guy off of first more than once. And forget about stealing on this guy. I believe we watched the greatest defensive catcher ever. And the fact that his career CS%(50% better than the league avg for his career) is an unbreakable record. I hope the steroid rumors are false. If they are false, then Pudge is easily a first ballot HOFer. I believe he's the best all-around catcher since Bench.
    didn't he admit them?
    I think walks are overrated unless you can run. If you get a walk and put the pitcher in a stretch, that helps, but the guy who walks and cant run, most of the time hes clogging up the bases for somebody who can run. Dusty Baker.

  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by dominik View Post
    didn't he admit them?
    I believe Pudge's quote was taken out of context. He has denied taking steroids. He later said that "only God knows". I.e, he couldn't prove that he didn't take them, like anybody else. Also, he never showed up on the Mitchell report. I guess anything is possible. That's what stinks about this era. I have know idea who cheated and it's frustrating. Did Pudge actually cheat? It's definitely a possibility, despite never testing positive. For all I know, Pujols took steroids too. He's bigger than 90% of the players that got caught. He's a monster in size. I sure hope he didn't. Of all of the players I really enjoyed watching during the past 20 years, most cheated. This era is a disgrace. At least I have my Twins.

  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by pheasant View Post
    For all I know, Pujols took steroids too. He's bigger than 90% of the players that got caught. He's a monster in size. I sure hope he didn't. Of all of the players I really enjoyed watching during the past 20 years, most cheated. This era is a disgrace. At least I have my Twins.
    But he has only gained 25 pounds in 12 seasons. Not a big deal. Not that size can really tell you about PEDs anyway.
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  12. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by pheasant View Post
    Pudge was one of my favorite players to watch. A guy on first better not sleep with Pudge behind the plate, mainly because I have never seen anybody catch like him before. I have watched Pudge pick a guy off of first more than once. And forget about stealing on this guy. I believe we watched the greatest defensive catcher ever. And the fact that his career CS%(50% better than the league avg for his career) is an unbreakable record. I hope the steroid rumors are false. If they are false, then Pudge is easily a first ballot HOFer. I believe he's the best all-around catcher since Bench.
    Almost certainly the best there ever was defensively:

    http://bb_catchers.tripod.com/catchers/8cfldcspct.htm

  13. #138
    http://members.tripod.com/bb_catcher...0BestCSCar.pdf

    First Campy was mired in the Negro Leauges- missed several years at the Big Time there....then the accident. What a rout.

    He's so far ahead of everyone else that ever played in arm it's ridiculous....

  14. #139
    Strictly speaking offense, I would put in Ted Simmons before IRod. The questions of him taking PED's locks it up for me.

  15. #140
    Despite being linked to Canseco, Pudge has generally faced very little steroid scrutiny, and by the time he's eligible, there will probably already be steroid users enshrined in the HOF (possibly Bonds and Clemens). Then again, maybe he'll have to wait a few years, but I'm pretty sure he will get in.

  16. #141
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    Looking back at his stats, I don't know how the hell he won the MVP in 1999 over Manny, Jeter, or Pedro.
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  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
    Looking back at his stats, I don't know how the hell he won the MVP in 1999 over Manny, Jeter, or Pedro.
    ...or Nomar, or Alomar...
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  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiambiJuice View Post
    ...or Nomar, or Alomar...
    Yeah, any of those guys would have been better, no idea how he won.
    Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!

  19. #144
    But it's not as if Pudge had a bad year.

    35 HR, .330+ BA, 100 RBI, etc, along with gold-glove defense.

    He made history by stealing 25 bases. No other catcher in MLB history has ever hit 25 HR and stole 25 bases in a single-season.

    (For the record, if it was my call, I would have given the MVP to Jeter. I'm just saying that Pudge winning wasn't that bad.)

  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by redban View Post
    But it's not as if Pudge had a bad year.

    35 HR, .330+ BA, 100 RBI, etc, along with gold-glove defense.

    He made history by stealing 25 bases. No other catcher in MLB history has ever hit 25 HR and stole 25 bases in a single-season.

    (For the record, if it was my call, I would have given the MVP to Jeter. I'm just saying that Pudge winning wasn't that bad.)
    Oh, I never said he was bad. He had a great year. I just don't see how he could get it over those other guys. I'd have no problem giving it to Manny, Jeter, or Pedro.
    Lou Gehrig is the Truest Yankee of them all!

  21. #146
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    I-Rod's an automatic.

    Those of you that follow my posts know that I could care less if he used PEDs or not.
    "I do not care if half the league strikes. Those who do it will encounter quick retribution. All will be suspended and I don't care if it wrecks the National League for five years. This is the United States of America and one citizen has as much right to play as another. The National League will go down the line with Robinson whatever the consequences. You will find if you go through with your intention that you have been guilty of complete madness."

    NL President Ford Frick, 1947

  22. #147
    Even if Pudge used steroids and it inflated his batting numbers, I think he belongs in the HOF because of his defense. If Ozzie Smith can get in for his defense, why can't Pudge?

  23. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenrir View Post
    Even if Pudge used steroids and it inflated his batting numbers, I think he belongs in the HOF because of his defense. If Ozzie Smith can get in for his defense, why can't Pudge?
    Why can't Keith?
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  24. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
    Why can't Keith?
    You won't get any argument from me about Keith Hernandez, though I don't think his defense was anywhere near as historic was Pudge's was. Being arguably the greatest defensive catcher ever is a major accomplishment
    Last edited by fenrir; 06-13-2012 at 01:51 PM.

  25. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by fenrir View Post
    You won't get any argument from me about Keith Hernandez, though I don't think his defense was anywhere near as historic was Pudge's was. Being arguably the greatest defensive catcher ever is a major accomplishment
    Who would you rank in his league? Boone? Bench? Carter? Fisk? Berra? Molena Brothers? Honestly, I do not know many defensive masters pre-70's.

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