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Thread: Negro League data

  1. #51
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    Here's the data I've gathered for Christobal Torriente

    Expert Evaluations
    Bill James -- #2 Negro-League CF, #67 in top 100 players all-time
    CPPD -- 96% of experts vote for HoF induction
    Holway -- 9 all-star selections; first-string outfielder on his all-time Negro-League all-star team, with Oscar Charleston and Turkey Stearnes (second team is Cool Papa Bell, Pete Hill, and Wild Bill Wright)

    From Holway

    1913 .383 (23-60) for Cubans (west); Holway all-star
    35-104 in Cuban play (.337)
    1914 .358 for Cuban Stars, 4-3 as pitcher; Holway all-star
    48-186 in Cuban Play (.387)
    1915 . 317 for Cuban Stars; Holway all-star
    9-23 (.391) vs. ABCs in Cuba
    56-139 (.403) in Cuban Play
    1916 .357 for Cuban Stars; Holway all-star
    1917 .500 for Cuban Stars, .250 for All Nations
    1918 .318 for Cuban Stars; 2-2 as pitcher Holway all-star
    1919 .280 for Chi Am Giants; 5-1 as pitche; Holway all-star (dh)
    21-73 vs. major-league competition in Cuba
    36-100 in Cuban Play
    1920 .361 for Chi Am Giants; Holway all-star, 0-1 as pitcher
    9-31 vs. major-league competition in Cuba
    29-98 (.296) in Cuban Play
    1921 .346 for Chi Am Giants, 6-1 as pitcher
    4-15 in playoff vs. Hilldale
    7-20 (.350) in Cuban Play
    1922 .393 for Chi Am Giants
    3-19 vs. Bacharachs in World Series
    61-194 (.351) in Cuban Play
    1923 .395 for Chi Am Giants; Holway all-star
    1-6 vs. Detroit Tigers
    .377 in Cuban Play
    1924 .333 for Chi Am Giants
    62-163 (.380) in Cuban Play
    1925 .241 for Chi Am Giants
    43-122 (.344) in Cuban Play
    1926 .371 for KC Monarchs; Holway all-star
    11-31 in playoff vs. Chi Am Giants
    1927 .326 for Detroit Stars
    1928 .333 for Detroit Stars listed as in a utility role

    Career Totals
    15 documented seasons as regular
    856-2548 (.336) lifetime in Negro-League Play, 53 HR
    mean avg. .343 in 15 seasons as regular
    mean avg. .352 adj. for Chi Am Giants park
    48-110 (.436) vs. major-league competition
    386-1149 (.336) lifetime in Cuban Play
    17-9 as pitcher

    From Riley

    Avgs. 1919-23 of ..325, 411, .338, .342, .412
    Avg. 1926 .381
    Avgs. 1927-28 .339, .320

    Hit .352 in 13 Cuban Winter League seasons, with avgs. Of
    .265, .337, .387, .402, .360, .296, .350, .346, .380, .344, .375, .222

    Avg. vs. major-league competition, .313

    WINS t-155th with 18 wins

    LOSSES t-294th with 6 losses

    DECISIONS t-206th with 24 decisions

    WINNING PCT .750
    (50 Decisions Minimum) DNQ
    (25 Decisions Minimum) DNQ
    (10 Decisions Minimum) 11th

    ADJ PCT OF TEAM DECISIONS 5.8%
    (50 Decisions Minimum) DNQ
    (25 Decisions Minimum) DNQ
    (10 Decisions Minimum) 329th (of 225)

    WAT 69th with 3.4

    WAT PER DECISION .142
    (50 Decisions Minimum) DNQ
    (25 Decisions Minimum) DNQ
    (10 Decisions Minimum) 27th

    He didn't pitch much, but when he did, he was very effective.



    Hit .352 in 13 Cuban Winter League seasons, with avgs. Of
    .265, .337, .387, .402, .360, .296, .350, .346, .380, .344, .375, .222

    Avg. vs. major-league competition, .313
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  2. #52
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    Quincy Troupe's Mexican League Performances

    Mexican Counting Stats
    Year Team Age G Ab H Tb 2b 3b Hr Bb Sb
    ----------------------------------------------
    1939 Mon 26 38 137 42 71 11 3 4 24 7
    1940 Mon 27 76 276 93 150 25 7 6 48 9
    1941 Mon 28 98 363 111 171 25 4 9 66 9
    1942 Mex 29 70 269 98 171 27 5 12 62 20
    1943 Mex 30 76 276 83 143 18 3 12 60 5
    1944 Mex 31 57 197 47 82 12 1 7 40 4
    1950 Jal 37 67 206 58 92 10 0 8 55 3
    1951 Jal 38 63 177 45 70 6 5 3 52 2
    ==============================================
    Total 545 1901 577 950 134 28 61 407 59
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  3. #53
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    Willie Wells Seasonal and Career Data, from Holway

    Teams: 24-31 Stl Stars, 32 Det/Homestead/KC, 33-35 Cole’s Am Giants, 36-39 Newark Eagles, 40-41 Mexico, 42 Newark, 43-44 Mexico, 45 Newark, 46 several teams

    1924 .263 for Stl; ss
    1925 .270 for Stl; 14 sb (5th); ss
    4-27 in playoff vs. KC
    1926 .371 for Stl; 4th in ba, 23 hr/550 (5th); ss, all-star
    1927 .380 for Stl; 5th in ba, 23 hr (1st), 34 hr/550 (3rd), 20 2b (2nd); ss, all-star, MVP
    1928 .353 for Stl; 17 hr (4th), 32 hr/550 (5th), 22 2b (2nd); ss, all-star
    8-25 in playoff vs. Chi Am Giants
    1929 .373 for Stl; 4th in ba, 27 hr (1st), 44 hr/550 (2nd), 21 sb; ss, all-star, MVP
    8-16 in World Series vs. Homestead
    9-22 vs. major-league competition
    57-177 in Cuban play
    1930 .403 for Stl; ba 2nd, 15 hr (1st), 29 hr/550 (2nd), 32 2b (1st), 17 sb (2nd); ss, all-star, MVP
    1931 .263 for Stl; 5 hr (2nd), 30 hr/550 (1st); ss
    3-10 vs. major-leageu competition
    1932 .330 for Det, .255 for KC; 14 2b (2nd), 3 3b (4th), 7 sb (3rd); ss
    2-3 vs. major-league competition (home run)
    1933 .265 for Chi Am Giants; ss
    1934 .264 for Chi Am Giants; 10 2b (3rd), 8 3b (1st), 3 sb (4th); ss
    3-15 in playoff vs. Phi Stars
    1935 .270 for Chi Am Giants; 7 sb (2nd); ss
    2-4 vs. major league pitching (backed by semipro teams)
    1936 .237 for Newark Eagles; ss
    30-88 in Cuban Play
    1937 .320 for Newark Eagles; ss
    0-18 in World Series vs. Chi Am Giants
    36-126 in Cuban Play
    1938 .404 for Newark Eagles; ba 1st, 6 hr (5th), 34 hr/550 (3rd), 4 2b (5th), 3 sb (1st); ss, all-star
    36-117 in Cuban Play
    1939 .355 for Newark Eagles; ba 5th, 3 sb (1st); ss, all-star
    1-14 in playoffs
    6-20 on Homestead’s Cuban tour
    63-192 in Cuban Play
    1940 In Mexico
    117-330, .345
    1941 In Mexico, 140-403, .347; ss
    In Puerto Rico, .378, 17 2b (2nd)
    1942 .358 for Newark Eagles; ba 3rd, 6 hr (3rd), 24 hr/550 (3rd), 5 sb (1st); ss, all-star
    1943 In Mexico
    1944 In Mexico and .500 for NY Black Yankees; ss
    1945 .216 for Newark Eagles; ss and manager

    Career
    1306-3981, .328
    138 hr, 20/550 ab
    41-116, .353 vs. major-league competition
    Mean avg. 316

    Willie Wells, Mexican League

    Yr--G---AB---H--D-T-HR---R-RBI-BB-SO-HP-SH-SB-AVE-OBA-SLG
    40-084-339-117-30-2-03-095--57-35-21--3-06-17-345-411-472
    41-100-403-140-29-6-09-102--77-57-20--1-07-14-347-430-516
    43-087-319-094-15-4-04-041--51-44-11--2-06-10-295-384-404
    44-083-293-086-13-3-10-063--52-65-11--1-10-09-294-423-461

    Totals
    G-354
    AB-1354
    H-437
    D-87
    T-15
    HR-26
    R-301
    RBI-237
    BB-201
    SO-63
    HP-7
    SH-29
    SB-50
    AVE-.323
    OBA-.413
    SLG-.467
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  4. #54
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    Chaney White Data

    Seasonal Data from Holway

    1919 no data, rookie with Hilldale Daisies; cf
    1920 .094 for Hilldale; cf
    2-15 in playoff vs. Bkn Royal Giants
    3-24 vs. major-league competition
    1921 .270 for Hilldale; cf
    2-10 in playoff vs. Bacharachs
    6-17 in World Series vs. Chi Am Giants
    1922 .270 for Hilldale; lf
    1923 .295 for AC Bacharach Giants; cf
    1924 .287 for AC Bacharach Giants; cf
    1925 .321 for AC Bacharach Giants; cf
    1926 .281 for AC Bacharach Giants; cf ;17 2b 1st in league, 4 3b 3rd
    8-33 in World Series vs. Chi Am Giants
    1927 .279 for AC Bacharach Giants; cf
    5-33 in World Series vs. Chi Am Giants
    1928 .342 for AC Bacharach Giants; rf
    1929 .357 for AC Bacharach Giants; rf; 12 3b 1st in league
    1930 .312 for Homestead Grays; cf
    .315 for Hilldale; cf
    9-38 in World Series for Grays vs. NY Lincoln Giants
    1931 .272 for Phi Stars/Hilldale; cf
    1932 .173 for Hilldale; cf
    .240 for Bal Black Sox; ut
    2-11 vs. major-league pitching
    1933 .318 for Phi Stars; cf; all-star
    1934 .295 for Phi Stars; cf
    1935 .258 for Phi Stars; cf
    1936 .410 for NY Cubans; ut

    Career, calculated from Seasonal data

    .286 mean avg. for 17 seasons with data
    5-35 vs. major-league competition
    27-113, ,239 in post-season play
    1-time all star
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  5. #55
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    Here are the published numbers on Smokey Joe Williams from Riley and Holway.

    Smokey Joe Williams Data

    From Riley

    1905-1909 (in Texas play) 28-4, 15-9, 20-8, 32-8

    1911 – 10-7 in Cuban play; 22-15 lifetime in Cuba
    1912 – 9-1 for Chi American Giants against PCL teams; 8-2 for NY Lincoln Giants
    1913 – 18-3 for NY Lincoln Giants
    1914 – 41-3 vs. all levels of competition; 12-2 vs. black teams, 100 K in 17 games, all for NY Lincoln Giants
    1921 18-2 “through mid-August” for NY Lincoln Giants
    1929 12-7 for Homestead Grays

    20-7 vs. major-league competition, lifetime

    Batting
    1912-1914 Hit .320, .299, .175
    1917 hits .281

    From Holway

    1910 3-4 for Chicago Giants, TRA 3.12 (4th in West – 4 teams, top TRA 2.00)
    7 decisions out of 13 recorded for team.
    1911 1-0 for Chicago Leland Giants (of 5 team decisions)
    10-7 in Cuban play (Frank Wickware 10-4, Jose Mendez 9-5, Dick Redding 4-8)
    1912 3-2 for NY Lincoln Giants, TRA 2.20 (9 team decisions)
    9-7 in Cuban play (Dick Redding, 7-2, Jose Mendez 7-5)
    2-0 vs. major-league competition (beat a Giants/Yankees mixed squad, 6-0, 6-0). May have won a third game against the Giants, 2-0
    1913 12-5 for NY Lincoln Giants, TRA 3.87 (23 team decisions); Holway all-star, Holway George Stovey award
    1-0 vs. major-league competition (beat Phillies & Pete Alexander, 9-2)
    1914 6-4 for NY Lincoln Giants, (29 team dec.)
    1-0-1 vs. major-league competition (beat Phillies, 10-4, tied Rube Marquard & a part-Giants team 1-1)
    1915 2-0 for NY Lincoln Giants (5 team dec.)
    Missed time due to broken arm and broken wrist
    2-2 vs. major-league competition (beat Buffalo of Federal League, 3-0, lost to NY Giants, 2-4, beat the Phillies (less Gavvy Cravath), 1-0, lost to the Phillies, 2-4)
    3-3 in Cuban play (Dolf Luque 12-5, Frank Wickware 2-4)
    1916 5-6 for NY Lincoln Giants (19 team dec.), TRA 4.60
    1-0 vs. “Major-League” competition – beat Rube Marquard, backed by a minor-league squad, 5-4.
    2-1 in resort ball in Florida
    1917 9-1 for NY Lincoln Giants, 3.22 TRA (of 14 team decisions); Holway All Star, George Stovey award, Fleet Walker award
    1-1 vs. major league competition (beat Joe Bush & a weak, part big-league squad 6-2, lost to Bush and a stronger squad 4-10) .
    1918 7-2 for NY Lincoln Giants, TRA 2.23 (19 team decisions); Holway all star, George Stovey award, Fleet Walker award
    1-0 vs. major-league competition (won by forfeit while trailing 3-4 in the ninth), 4-0 vs. big-league pitchers backed by minor-league squads (8-0, 2-0, 1-0, 14-1)
    1919 9-2 for NY Lincoln Giants, 2.32 TRA (of 20 team decisions); Holway all-star, George Stovey award
    1920 0-3 for NY Lincoln Giants (two losses to Dick Redding; Redding pitched shutouts in both) (4 team decisions)
    1921 7-1 for NY Lincoln Giants (17 team decisions); Holway all-star, George Stovey Award
    1922 4-1 for NY Lincoln Giants (12 team decisions), 5.40 TRA
    1923 5-4 for NY Lincoln Giants (38 team decisons)
    1924 3-4 for Bkn Royal Giants (35 team decisions)
    1925 2-2 for Homestead Grays (? Team decisions)
    1926 1-0 for Homestead Grays (6 team decisions)
    1-0 vs. major-league competition (beat AL all-star team (good team!), 6-5)
    1927 2-0 for Homestead Grays (7 team decisions)
    1-0 vs. major league competition (beat good AL all-star team, 5-0. Joe’s pitching was obviously good; opposing pitcher Rube Walberg was pitching his second game of the day)
    1928 2-1 for Homestead Grays (13 team decisions)
    1-0 vs. major-league competition (beat good AL all-star team, no box score, but Holway says he and his opponent, Rube Walberg, were “hit hard.”)
    1929 8-2 for Homestead Grays (58 team decisions), 4.76 TRA
    1930 7-2 for Homestead Grays (18 team decisions), 3.00 TRA
    1-2 in playoff vs. Lincoln Giants (2-6, 11-3, 2-6)
    1931 10-6 for Homestead Grays (65 team decisions), 2.54 TRA
    0-1, 6.57 TRA in “World Series” against KC Monarchs
    1932 6-2, 3.29 TRA for Homestead Grays (82 team dec)

    Holway’s listed career totals
    107-57, .652 wp
    8-4 vs. major-league competition.

    From Holway’s listed seasonal records, I count
    114-52, .687 wp

    10-4-1, .700 wp vs. major-league competition (counts forfeit win as a loss, doesn’t count victory against Rube Marquard & a minor-league squad, does count victory vs. Federal League team, calculates the tie as 1/2 win)

    Total score in 13 games with box-scores: 64-36, so Williams’ record is pretty much in line with expectation, given the scoring.

    In the 11 seasons for which Holway lists a total run average for Williams, he pitched 107 games. Treating each game as complete, Williams' career TRA comes out at 3.47. (4 of the 11 seasons are the last 4 of Williams' career.)


    SMOKEY JOE WILLIAMS PLACEMENTS ON CAREER NGL LEADERBOARDS (1920-1948)

    I guess this represents a little less than half of Williams's career, and, like Redding, it's not a particularly well document phase either.

    WINS t-40th with 57

    LOSSES t-91st with 29

    DECISIONS t-55th with 86

    WINNING PCT .663
    (50 Decisions Minimum) 17th
    (25 Decisions Minimum) 28th
    (10 Decisions Minimum) 50th

    ADJ PCT OF TEAM DECISIONS 23%
    (50 Decisions Minimum) 30th
    (25 Decisions Minimum) 42nd
    (10 Decisions Minimum) 66th

    WAT 31st at 7.3

    WAT PER DECISION .085
    (50 Decisions Minimum) 25th
    (25 Decisions Minimum) 41st
    (10 Decisions Minimum) 70th

    APPEARANCE ON YEARLY WINS LEADERBOARDS

    1921 3rd in East with 7 wins.

    1922 4th in East 4 wins.

    1923 6th in ECL with 5 wins.

    1929 t-7th in ANL with 8 wins.

    1930 4th in East with 7 wins.

    1931 3rd in East with 10 wins, 5th in NgLs.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  6. #56
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    Here's the real-life info on Artie Wilson

    NEGRO LEAGUES
    TM
    YEAR LG TM AGE PO G G AB H TB 2B 3B HR SB BB K AVG SLG
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    1944 NAL BIR 23 SS 70 65 266 92 113 9 6 0 17 .346 .425
    1945 NAL BIR 24 SS 69 63 249 90 111 8 2 3 17 .361 .446
    1946 NAL BIR 25 SS 37 2 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 .000
    1947 NAL BIR 26 SS 53 212 79 100 .373 .473
    1948 NAL BIR 27 SS 76 76 333 134 175 19 8 2 10 .402 .526

    PCL
    SD/
    1949 PCL OAK 28 SS 187 165 607 211 248 19 9 0 47 62 58 .348 .409
    1950 PCL OAK 29 SS 200 196 848 264 328 27 17 1 31 68 79 .311 .387
    1951 PCL OAK 30 SS 168 81 349 89 99 8 1 0 6 14 36 .255 .284
    1952 PCL SEA 31 SS 180 160 683 216 250 15 8 1 25 35 20 .316 .366
    1953 PCL SEA 32 SS 180 177 638 212 269 23 14 2 9 76 25 .332 .422
    SS/
    1954 PCL SEA 33 IF 162 163 660 222 278 24 16 0 20 32 28 .336 .421
    2B/
    1955 PCL POR 34 1B 172 155 616 189 219 20 2 2 12 34 36 .307 .356
    SEA/
    1956 PCL POR 35 IF 168 101 273 80 97 9 4 0 6 24 19 .293 .355
    1957 PCL SAC 36 2B 168 75 315 83 105 10 6 0 3 11 12 .263 .333
    2B/
    1962 PCL POR 41 3B 25 55 9 11 0 1 0 0 .164 .200

    AA
    IF/
    1951 AA MIN 30 OF 152 17 59 23 33 2 1 2 0 13 8 .390 .559

    NL SS/
    1951 NL NY 30 IF 154 19 22 4 4 0 0 0 2 2 1 .182 .182

    INT
    1951 INT OTT 30 OF 150 2 7 2 3 1 0 0 1 .286 .429

    NWL
    1962 NWL KEN 41 2B 14 42 9 9 0 0 0 1 .214 .214

    PRWL
    1947 PRWL MAY 26 SS 60 252 102 137 .405 .542
    1948 PRWL MAY 27 SS 80 338 126 163 3 9 .373 .481
    1949 PRWL MAY 28 SS 77 262 87 117 .332 .445
    1950 PRWL MAY 29 SS 65 232 56 83 10 1 5 2 .241 .358
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  7. #57
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    Jud Wilson Data

    Seasonal Data from holway

    1922 .438 for Bal Black Sox (too few ab to qualify for title); 1b; all-star
    1923 .369 for Bal Black Sox; ba 3rd; 1b; all-star
    1924 .381 for Bal Black Sox; ba 2nd; 1b; all-star
    4-7 vs. major-league competition
    1925 .419 for Bal Black Sox; ba 1st, 5 3b (5th); 1b; all-star
    64-149 in Cuban Play (top in league)
    1926 .351 for Bal Black Sox; ba 1st, 6 sb (3rd); 3b
    1927 .416 for Bal Black Sox; ba 2nd, 10 hr (3rd), 22 hr/550 (4th), 22 2b (1st), 9 3b (2nd), 8 sb (4th); 3b; all-star (as SS??)
    50-118 in Cuban Play (1st in league)
    1928 .375 for Bal Black Sox; ba 4th, 13 2b (3rd); 2b; all-star (as 3b??)
    3-4 vs. Major-league competition
    1929 .405 for Bal Black sox; ba 5th, 11 hr (5th), 24 hr/550 (5th), 20 2b (5th), x 3b (4th); 1b (should have been all-star, but Holway gives it to Pop Lloyd)
    4-8 vs. major-league competition
    58-160 in Cuban Play
    1930 .415 for Bal Black Sox, ba 4th, 10 2b (3rd); 3b; all-star (dh)
    1931 .352 for Homestead, ba 2nd, 6 hr (3rd); 13 hr/550 (3rd), 13 2b, (4th), 5 3b (3rd); 3b
    11-28 in World Series vs. Monarchs
    1932 .317 for Pgh Crawfords/Homestead; ba 5th; 3b; all-star
    9-28 vs. major-league competition
    3-6 vs. major-league pitching (2 hr)
    1933 .416 for Phi Stars; ba 2nd; 3b; all-star
    1934 .333 for Phi Stars, 10 hr (5th); 1b
    5-16 in playoff vs. Chi Am Giants
    1935 .312 for Phi Stars; 1b
    1-11 vs. major-league competition
    1936 .333 for Phi Stars; 10 hr (5th); 1b
    1937 .351 for Phi Stars; 1b
    1938 .222 for Phi Stars; 2 3b (1st); 3b
    1939 .276 for Phi Stars; 9 2b (3rd); 3b
    1940 .250 for Homestead; ut
    1941 .454 for Homestead; 6 2b (5th); ut; all-star (3b)
    1942 .243 for Homestead; 2b
    2-7 in World Series vs. Monarchs
    1943 .327 for Homestead; 13 3b (1st); 2b
    1944 no data
    1945 .400 for Homestead; ut


    Career, according to Holway
    1484-4188, .354
    94 home runs, 12/550 ab
    39-132 vs. major-league competition, 6 hr

    Career data from MacMillan, 10th ed.
    781 g, 2763 ab, 960 hits, 151 2b, 32 3b, 63 hr, .347 ba, .494 slg
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  8. #58
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    Nip Winters

    Expert Assessments

    Received 20% of expert vote for HoF in _Cool Papas_
    6-time Holway all-star
    5.5 times listed as best pitcher in his league by James or Holway
    Ranked by Holway as #3 left-handed Negro-League pitcher of all time (I think -- don't have the book with me at work and forgot to double-check this one)

    Here's the data I've gathered on Nip Winters from Holway.

    Nip Winters

    Negro-League Record
    1920 no data, pitched for Baltimore Black Sox
    1921 3-3 for AC Bach Giants, team 34-28; 0-1, 4.50 TRA in playoff vs. Hilldale; 1-0-1, 0.50 TRA in World Series vs. Chicago Am Giants
    1922 7-10 for AC Bacharach Giants, team 20-24; 1-0 in World Series vs. Chi Am Giants
    1923 10-3, TRA 3.03 for Phi Hilldales, team 32-17; GSA, All-Star
    1924 27-4 for Phi Hilldales, team 58-23; GSA, All-star; 3-1, 1.16 ERA in WS vs. Monarchs
    1925 21-13, TRA 3.88 for Phi Hilldales, team 65-26, all-star; 1-0, 3.00 TRA? In WS vs. Monarchs
    1926 23-4, 2.23 TRA for Phi Hilldales, team 58-34; GSA, all-star
    1927 18-16, 2.96 TRA for Phi Hilldales, team 47-70; all-star
    1928 10-11 for Phi Hilldales & NY Lincoln Giants, teams 26-27, 17-21
    1929 2-4 for NY Lincoln Giants, team 38-18
    1930 No data, may not have pitched for a top team
    1931 1-2 for Phi/Hilldale Stars, team 44-16
    1-1 for Nwk Browns, team 3-9
    0-2 for NY Bacharach Giants, team 0-4
    pitched for Was Potomacs, no record
    1932 1-2 for Was Pilots, team 16-35
    1933 no data, pitched for AC Bacharach Giants, who were not in league

    Totals
    124-75, .623
    Holway lists 126-74, .630

    Teams 405-309, .567
    Teams without Winters, 281-234, .546
    Record adj. to .500 teams behind him 115-84, .577


    Vs. Major-League competition
    1923 2-1 vs. Phil Athletics
    1926 2-0 vs. All-Star team (a good one), lp Lefty Grove, Rube Walberg

    NIP WINTERS PLACEMENTS ON CAREER NGL LEADERBOARDS

    WINS 8th with 127 wins.

    LOSSES 7th with 79 losses.

    DECISIONS 8th with 208 decisions.

    WINNING PCT .617
    (50 Decisions Minimum) 29th
    (25 Decisions Minimum) 48th
    (10 Decisions Minimum) 81st

    ADJ PCT OF TEAM DECISIONS 28.5%
    (50 Decisions Minimum) 8th
    (25 Decisions Minimum) 12th
    (10 Decisions Minimum) 24th

    WAT 6th with 18.1 WAT

    WAT PER DECISION .088
    (50 Decisions Minimum) 23rd
    (25 Decisions Minimum) 39rd
    (10 Decisions Minimum) 66th

    RANKINGS ON YEARLY WINS LEADERBOARDS

    1922 2nd in East with 6 wins.

    1923 Led ECL with 10 wins (tied), 5th in NgLs.

    1924 Led ECL and NgLs with 27 wins.

    1925 Led ECL and NgLs with 21 wins.

    1926 2nd in ECL and NgLs with 23 wins.

    1927 t-2nd in ECL with 18 wins, t-3rd in NgLs.

    1928 t-3rd in ECL with 10 wins, t-7th in NgLs.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  9. #59
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    Wild Bill Wright Data

    From Riley

    Born June 6, 1914

    Teams: Elite Giants of Nashville (1932-34), of Columbus (1935), of Washington (36-37), of Baltimore (1938-39, 42, 45). In Mexico, 1940-41, 43-44, 46-56

    From Holway

    1932 .300; cf
    1933 .328, rf
    1934 .252, 3 3b (5th in league); cf
    1935 .298; lf
    1936 .356, 7 3b (1st); lf, all-star
    1937 .370 (5th), 10 hr (3rd), 29 hr/550 (4th) , 8 2b (2nd), 5 3b (1st); cf, all-star
    1938 .273, 5 2b (2nd), 3 sb (1st); cf
    1939 .398 (2nd), 4 3b (1st), 2 sb (2nd); lf, all-star
    1940 .360 in Mexico, 3rd in ba
    1941 .390 in Mexico, 1st in ba, 17 hr (3rd), 24 hr/550 (3rd), 26 sb (1st)
    1942 .273, 8 2b (3rd); rf
    1943 In Mexico, no data in Holway
    1944 In Mexico, no data in Holway (he says no Americans went to Mexico, but he’s incorrect)
    1945 .397, 3rd in ba, 5 hr (2nd), 21 hr/550 (2nd), 9 2b (1st); cf, all-star
    1946-on All play in Mexico

    career
    488-1429, .341
    11-39, .282 vs. major-league competition
    .332 mean avg., including listed Mexican seasons

    career data from Macmillan 8th
    251 g, 915 ab, 287 hits, 33 2b, 21 3b, 20 hr, 22 sb, .314 ba, .461 sa

    Mexican League Info for Wild Bill Wright.

    LG LG LG
    YEAR TEAM G AB AVG OBP SLG AVG SLG OBP OPS+
    ------------------------------------------------------
    1940 SR/MX 87 350 .360 .436 .571 .290 .420 .379 151
    1941 MEX 100 387 .390 .486 .633 .288 .396 .390 184
    1943 MEX 88 352 .366 .419 .577 .273 .367 .366 172
    1944 MEX 87 334 .335 .410 .539 .284 .387 .380 147
    1946 MEX 85 316 .301 .369 .434 .281 .381 .362 116
    1947 MEX 79 249 .305 .359 .414 .278 .366 .363 112
    1948 MON 66 258 .333 .377 .419 .273 .378 .364 114
    1949 MEX/TOR 73 293 .276 .333 .416 .276 .369 .370 103
    1950 MEX 63 248 .302 .364 .375 .260 .335 .361 113
    1951 MEX/NUE 30 104 .365 .416 .558 .272 .367 .384 160
    ================================================== ====
    TOTAL 758 2891 .335 .402 .501 .279 .379 .372 140

    MEXICAN LEAGUE CAREER RELATIVE AVERAGES
    AVG+ = 120
    OBP+ = 108
    SLG+ = 132
    OPS+ = 140


    Some quick notes:
    1) Wright was born in 1914, per Riley and confirmed by Cisneros, so these seasons represent his age 26-37 seasons.

    2) I do not have any park factors available for these seasons, so you're seeing unadjusted numbers.

    3) The AVG and SLG for each season are based on pitcher-excluded batting totals, as are the OBP data for seasons 1939 and 1948-1951. Due to time constraints (I'm going to a wedding and moving in the next five days) I used BB data that was already available in the Re-eval NgL Pitchers thread, basing my calcultions on BB/H because it proves easier to use that combo than any others when I have to extrapolate walk rates into NgL seasons.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  10. #60
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    Pitching Leader Boards

    These leader boards are a bit preliminary because I've still have got a few identity questions to resolve and some data-neatening to do (they look pretty rough, I know), but I think I'm close enough along that it won't make a tremendous difference. Also, I don't know if I'll finish it by Monday, so I figured better to post now. If/when any of these change, I'll repost.

    Remember, everything is based on Holway's data except where Gary has kindly supplied new data. That means only U.S. league and regional data is supplied for the years 1920-1948. (I may return to the pre-league years in the near future, no promises). This also includes data for the 1931 Negro Southern League because a) Holway supplied complete W-L data and b) a lot of top players were in the league that year. Holway's published career data often conflicts with itself (as Chris and Gary have recently pointed out), and I'm basing % of team decisions strictly on the sum of individual pitchers' wins and losses.

    Top 25ish totals are shown for each leaderboard.

    PRELIMINARY CAREER LEADER-BOARD LISTS

    WINS
    brown, ray …………………158
    paige, satchel ………154
    bell, william …………145
    foster, bill ……………144
    rogan, bullet …………144
    byrd, bill …………………133
    cooper, andy ……………130
    winters, nip ……………127
    holland, bill …………118
    mcdonald, webster 117
    …
    LOSSES
    holland, bill ……………105
    mcdonald, webster …96
    paige, satchel …………93
    byrd, bill ……………………84
    yokely, laymon …………80
    …
    DECISIONS
    paige, satchel ………247
    holland, bill …………223
    byrd, bill …………………217
    brown, ray …………………214
    foster, bill ……………214
    …
    WAT (wins above team)
    brown, ray …………………32.75639
    cooper, andy ……………21.75161
    salmon, harry …………21.63823
    byrd, bill …………………18.98093
    foster, bill ……………18.9751
    winters, nip ……………18.1168
    paige, satchel ………17.75274
    mchenry, henry ………16.07841
    rogan, bullet …………13.7111
    rector, connie ………13.63975
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  11. #61
    Some partial stats for Baseball's greatest unknown - Cannonball Bill Jackman.

    1925: 15-2 record in known games for the Philadelphia Giants. Victories over major league pitchers Buck O'Brien (2), King Bader and Earl Hanson. No decisions or saves versus major league pitchers Bump Hadley, Chippy Gaw and Cy Morgan.

    1926: 14-6 in known games for the Philadelphia Giants. Victories over major league pitchers Haskell Billings and King Bader. 2-0 record versus Class B New England League teams. 14-strikeout game versus top semi-pro team. 2-hit shutout and 14 K game versus Cape Cod League (with major leaguers) All-Star team.

    1927: 18-6 record in known games for the Philadelphia Giants. 3-0 versus opposing pitchers with big league time. 16-K game versus a semi-pro team that had 7 players in the lineup with big league time. 10 or more strikeouts in 7 of 22 known starts.

    1928: 12-8 record in known games for Philadelphia Giants. Tossed 3-hit shutout versus Pop Lloyd-lead Lincoln Giants and 2-hit shutout versus Boston Colored Tigers. Lost a one-hitter with 12 K's versus Cape Cod League All-Star team. 3-2 record versus Cape Cod League teams and 1-4 record versus Lincoln Giants. Note that players with professional experience, including many with big league time, were eligible and did play in the Cape Cod League up through 1934.

    1929: 16-7 record in known games for the Philadelphia Giants. 0-1 versus Lincoln Giants and 1-0 versus Brooklyn Cubans. Pitched perfect game versus the Philadelphia Red Caps. 15-K, 3-hit shutout versus Cape Cod League all-star team in which Vito Tamulis was the opposing pitcher. Also had 14-K game while pitching for the East Douglas team in the Blackstone Valley League where future major league Hank Greenberg was his first baseman and Gene Desautels was his catcher.


    Keep in mind this data just reflects a small portion of Jackman's career, and that he pitched professionally from 1917 to 1952.

    Schoolboy Johnny Taylor tossed a no-hitter verus Satchel Paige in the Polo Grounds in 1937. A few years earlier Taylor beat Jackman, 5-4 in 22 innings. In 1938 Taylor told the Boston Chronicle that he win versus Jackman, and not his no-hitter versus Paige, was his biggest accomplishment to date. He also called Jackman a "smarter" pitcher than Paige.

  12. #62
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    Some pitching data from Shades of Glory (from the HOF's study of Negro League stats for the recently elected class of Negro Leaguers).

    Please note that the data begins in 1920 and is limited to the American Negro Leagues (not Mexico or the winter leagues), so I won't report Joe Williams because the best of his career was already over. I've also taken the career data and translated it to 275 IP. I used the ERA and winning percentage from the book, rather than calculating it from the data presented.

    Code:
     Name  	      games     GS  	CG  	IP  	hits  	runs  	ER  	ERA  	K  	BB  	WP  	HB  	SV  	W  	 L  	 Pct   name
    Leon Day 	44 	35 	21 	275.0 	235 	138 	91 	2.98 	154 	83 	1 	4 	3 	20 	10 	.661   Leon Day
    Bill Foster 	43 	30 	24 	275.0 	225 	103 	73 	2.40 	150 	76 	2 	5 	3 	21 	10 	.675   Bill Foster
    Satchel Paige 	48 	36 	20 	275.0 	215 	101 	62 	2.02 	225 	46 	3 	3 	2 	19 	11 	.628   Satchel Paige
    Hilton Smith 	49 	28 	18 	275.0 	228 	103 	52 	1.68 	159 	33 	2 	4 	2 	24 	11 	.696   Hilton Smith
    Last edited by jalbright; 06-25-2006 at 06:23 AM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  13. #63
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    I'll try my two pitcher-hitters, Martin Dihigo and Bullet Joe Rogan. The caveats from the previous post about this material only being from post 1920 American summer Negro Leagues and that pitchers are converted to 275 IP hold here. I've also done hitting on a 550 AB basis. ERA, winning percentage, average and slugging are taken from the book rather than calculated from this converted career data.

    Code:
    Name         games GS  CG      IP   hits  runs  ER  ERA     K   BB  WP  HB  SV  W    L   Pct   Name
    Martin Dihigo  43    29   23  275.0  247  122   89  2.92  137  62    2    3    2  20  15  .578  Martin Dihigo
    Joe Rogan      40    29   25  275.0  294  112  79   2.59  162  69    5    2    3  22  10  .699  Joe Rogan
    
    Name           AB  runs  hits  2B  3B  HR  RBI  BB  Sac  SB  avg    obp  slg     Name
    Martin Dihigo  550  114  169  24   7  25    89  56    8    16  .307  .371  .511  Martin Dihigo
    Joe Rogan      550   99  186  28  16  12    68  66    15    28  .338  .409  .515  Joe Rogan
    Last edited by jalbright; 06-25-2006 at 08:20 AM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  14. #64
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    Some hitting data from Shades of Glory, with career numbers from 1920 (the earliest year of stats given in the book) modified to 550 AB. Average and slugging percentages come from the book rather than calculated from the converted numbers. Also, please note these stats come only from the American Negro Leagues, not winter leagues or Mexico.

    Since I initially didn't get it to display very well (at least IMO), I've attached a word document with the same info.

    Code:
    
    Name                 AB runs  hits 2B  3B  HR  RBI  BB  Sac  SB  avg  obp  slg  Name
    Cool Papa Bell      550  118  175  25   8   6   38  54   7  23  .317  .379  .425  Cool Papa Bell
    Oscar Charleston----550  127  192  34  11  23   91  74  13  33  .348  .425  .576  Oscar Charleston
    Ray Dandridge-------550   81  174  22   9   2   41  29   2  12  .315  .351  .400  Ray Dandridge
    Josh Gibson         550  138  197  32  12  34  128  75   2   7  .359  .435  .648  Josh Gibson
    Monte Irvin         550  117  197  32   8  22  137  53   9  14  .358  .415  .564  Monte Irvin
    Judy Johnson        550   88  161  23   9   5   54  29  10  12  .293  .328  .395  Judy Johnson
    Buck Leonard        550  132  176  27  10  22  103  96  12   9  .320  .421  .527  Buck Leonard
    Pop Lloyd           550   99  189  28   6   6   53  46  15  19  .343  .394  .450  Pop Lloyd
    Turkey Stearnes     550  112  190  32  16  29  113  61   7  20  .345  .411  .618  Turkey Stearnes
    Willie Wells        550  123  175  33   8  19    7  66  11  19  .319  .391  .510  Willie Wells
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by jalbright; 01-19-2008 at 05:06 AM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  15. #65
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    I can get the HTML to display correctly at home, but not in the post. What gives?
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  16. #66
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    Thanks to Ubi and SABR Matt, I've got the data displayed halfway decently.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  17. #67
    This is some fantastic data on these players. Best I've seen so far. Thanks for sharing.

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by jalbright
    Josh Gibson Data

    Seasonal data from Holway

    ....
    1940 .167 for Homestead, part-season only
    1940 In Mexico, 43-92, .467, 11 hr (2nd), 65 hr/550 (1st)
    1941 In Mexico, 134-368, .374 (2nd); 33 hr (1st), 49 hr/550 (1st)
    . Major-league competition, 2 hr

    Gibson has some Cuban play, I think, and a number of winter seasons in Puerto Rico, for which data is also available, and I’m sure there are better stats available for his Mexican League seasons, but this is good for a start.


    His Cuban record consisted of two seasons:

    1937-38 - Habana (apparently signed late in season)
    61 AB, 11 R, 21 H, 3 2B, 2 3B, 3 HR, 13 RBI, .344

    1938-39 - Santa Clara (won pennant)
    163 AB, 50 R, 58 H, 7 2B, 3 3B, 11 HR, 39 RBI, 2 SB, .356

    Led league in runs and HR. Set season record in HR. (I'm not sure what the previous record was, but thumbing through the book the highest earlier total I could find was 7 by Mule Suttles. The Cuban ballparks prior to 1942 were huge -- the main park in Havana, La Tropical, was listed as 498 to left, 505 to center, and 398 to right.)

    Josh Gibson's Mexican League batting (he joined Veracruz late in the season, but was still only only 1 HR behind the league leader, Cool Papa Bell):

    1940
    G-22
    AB-92
    H-43
    D-7
    T-4
    HR-11
    R-32
    RBI-38
    BB-16
    SO-6
    HP-0
    SH-0
    SB-3
    AVE-.467
    OBA-.565
    SLG-.989

    And 1941, also with Veracruz:
    G-94
    AB-358
    H-134
    D-31
    T-3
    HR-33
    R-100
    RBI-124
    BB-75
    SO-25
    HP-1
    SH-0
    SB-7
    AVE-.374
    OBA-.484
    SLG-.754

    Totals:
    G-116
    AB-450
    H-177
    D-38
    T-7
    HR-44
    R-132
    RBI-162
    BB-91
    SO-31
    HP-1
    SH-0
    SB-10
    AVE-.393
    OBA-.496
    SLG-.802

    There's also his Dominican League stats from 1937, from Holway, which I think nobody's mentioned. Gibson hit 24 for 53 (.453). Next highest was Clyde Spearman, at .352, then Dihigo at .351 (in 97 ABs). Holway doesn't give extra base hits, or anything else.
    Joshua "Trucutru" Gibson played baseball in Venezuela in 1940 and 1941 in our prior profesional league. He is mentioned as the player with the longest homerun in our baseball, around 570 ft which go out from San Agustin Stadium, crossed one street and land in the backyards of a auto repair garage.
    In fact there is similar story in Dominican Republic with a homerun hit in a park beside the sea that landed in a ship property of the dictator Trujillo.
    There is not much stats regarding our championships in those times but Gibson is well remember (and beloved) for people who saw him playing here.
    You have to suffer a revolution to know what are you talking about.

  19. #69
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    Minnie Minoso

    The best data I have is from The Negro Leagues Book by Dick Clark and Larry Lester. There are two Negro League seasons without data. I also provided the Cuban Winter League data. Remember, Negro League seasons were often short. We also do not have walk data here, so it's hard to determine just how good he was. Nevertheless, it's clear he wasn't overwhelming in these seasons before he got himself established in the majors.

    Code:
    Year	G	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	SB	AVG	SLG
    1945	….	….	….	….	….	….	….	….	….	….	….
    1946	33	123	22	32	7	3	3	16	1	0.260	0.439
    1947	55	228	56	67	14	0	3	…	7	0.294	0.395
    1948	….	….	….	….	….	….	….	….	….	….	….
    totals	88	351	78	99	21	3	6	16	8	0.260	0.410
    per 550 AB	550	34	50	11	5	5	25	2	0.260	0.410
    
    Cuba											
    45-46	37	143	14	42	7	2	0	13	5	0.294	0.371
    46-47	64	253	36	63	9	5	0	20	7	0.249	0.324
    47-48	70	270	43	77	15	13	1	36	7	0.285	0.448
    48-49	69	260	42	69	8	5	4	27	9	0.265	0.381
    49-50	didn't	play	(?)								
    50-51	66	252	54	81	12	6	4	41	10	0.321	0.464
    totals	306	1178	189	332	51	31	9	137	38	0.265	0.401
    per 550 AB	550	20	32	4	2	2	13	4	0.265	0.401
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

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