Why is Joe Dimaggio in the HOF?

[Dodgerfan66]

a simple question why is Joe Dimaggio in the hall?

he has a nice avg of .325 but only 361 Hr's not great especially a guy who peaked in the 30's. he only has 1537 which is about the same amount as tony pena had. he only won 1 batting title and not much more. his mvp's were not deserved. he was a decent outfielder because he played so deep. his career obp is under .400. he only played 13 full seasons.

how come he's in the hall........was it because he was a yankee?

[csh19792001]

a simple question why is Joe Dimaggio in the hall?

he has a nice avg of .325 but only 361 Hr's not great especially a guy who peaked in the 30's. he only has 1537 which is about the same amount as tony pena had. he only won 1 batting title and not much more. his mvp's were not deserved. he was a decent outfielder because he played so deep. his career obp is under .400. he only played 13 full seasons.

how come he's in the hall........was it because he was a yankee?

Ah, I needed that. Thanks for the hearty chuckle, Dodgerfan66.

[Gee Walker]

a simple question why is Joe Dimaggio in the hall?

he has a nice avg of .325 but only 361 Hr's not great especially a guy who peaked in the 30's. he only has 1537 which is about the same amount as tony pena had. he only won 1 batting title and not much more. his mvp's were not deserved. he was a decent outfielder because he played so deep. his career obp is under .400. he only played 13 full seasons.

how come he's in the hall........was it because he was a yankee?

Because he married Marilyn Monroe!

Bo Belinsky married Mamie Van Doren - he'll be in Cooperstown any day now.

[Dodgerfan66]

seems like no one can come up with an explanation

[AG2004]

a simple question why is Joe Dimaggio in the hall?

he has a nice avg of .325 but only 361 Hr's not great especially a guy who peaked in the 30's. he only has 1537 which is about the same amount as tony pena had. he only won 1 batting title and not much more. his mvp's were not deserved. he was a decent outfielder because he played so deep. his career obp is under .400. he only played 13 full seasons.

how come he's in the hall........was it because he was a yankee?

Let's see ...

*He only played 13 full seasons because he was in the United States Army for three seasons during World War II. He was a great baseball player for those three seasons, but he couldn't play in the major leagues because of the war.

*He was an All-Star for each and every one of those 13 seasons.

*Without the war, he would have had at least 400 HRs. However, he averaged 34 HRs per 162 games during his career.

*DiMaggio had 1537 RBIs, or 143 per 162 games. Tony Pena had 708 RBIs, or
58 per 162 games. 708 is not "about the same amount" as 1537.

*DiMaggio won 2 batting titles, 2 RBI titles, 2 home run titles, 2 slugging average titles, 1 runs scored title, and 1 triples title. I would like to know how 1 batting title, 2 RBI titles, and 2 home run titles qualify as "not much more."

*DiMaggio won MVP awards in 1939, 1941, and 1947. According to the win shares system, he didn't deserve the 1947 award, but he did deserve the 1939 and 1941 awards, and he should have earned the 1937 award.

*The Yankees teams he was on won nine World Series and ten pennants during his thirteen years on the team, and he was the best Yankee during that span.

Next Up: Does anyone want to argue why Mickey Mantle doesn't belong in the Hall?

We could make a thread. Pick someone like Mantle, Ty Cobb, or Walter Johnson and argue why he doesn't belong in the Hall. We could move this discussion to the "Between Innings" forum.

[jalbright]

a simple question why is Joe Dimaggio in the hall?

he has a nice avg of .325 but only 361 Hr's not great especially a guy who peaked in the 30's. he only has 1537 which is about the same amount as tony pena had. he only won 1 batting title and not much more. his mvp's were not deserved. he was a decent outfielder because he played so deep. his career obp is under .400. he only played 13 full seasons.

how come he's in the hall........was it because he was a yankee?

Try reading this page: http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/dimagjo01.shtml which says much of what AG2004 said and more. Add to that the fact he's fifth among all CF in career win shares, 5th among all CF in his top three seasons, and 5th among all CF in his best five consecutive years in win shares, I think it fair to say he's among the top 140 major league position players ever (which is approximately how many Cooperstown has).

Jim Albright

[Dodgerfan66]

dimaggio's career just wasnt long enough. most of the greats of that era had more leads examples

gehrig led in BA 1X, obp 5X, slg 2X, runs 4X, h 1X, tb 4X, hr 3X, rbi 5X

foxx led in ba 2X, obp 3X, slg 5X, runs 1X, tb 3X, hr 4X, rbi 3X

they face much tougher competition

joe d was not the best player on those teams as that honor goes to gehrig

he was not a deserving all star every year

his numbers are good but not hof like

his only great seasons were 1937 and 1941

he didnt steal bases either and his only comptetion throughout his career wa ted williams

dimaggio is similar to vernon wells or bernie williams...good but not hof

[Dodgerfan66]

Try reading this page: http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/dimagjo01.shtml which says much of what AG2004 said and more. Add to that the fact he's fifth among all CF in career win shares, 5th among all CF in his top three seasons, and 5th among all CF in his best five consecutive years in win shares, I think it fair to say he's among the top 140 major league position players ever (which is approximately how many Cooperstown has).

Jim Albright

dont win shares have to fo with team sucess if so his teams won plenty that is why hes top 5 on the list

[jalbright]

dont win shares have to fo with team sucess if so his teams won plenty that is why hes top 5 on the list

Teams win because players produce tangible results, which win shares attempt to measure. If you were truly conversant with the win share system, you'd know that James has shown repeatedly how similar seasons for good or bad teams yield similar win share results.

Jim Albright

[ElHalo]

dimaggio's career just wasnt long enough. most of the greats of that era had more leads examples

If you're going to start picking arguments, at least choose ones that make sense.

And get your information correct. You say he only won one batting title; he won 2, with .381 in 1939 and .352 in 1940. I'd love for you to explain to me how exactly he didn't deserve the MVP award in 1939.

He's 14th all time in OPS, and 23rd in OPS+. He's 55th all time in RC, despite, as you said, only playing 13 years. He was the last player to touch 1 run and 1 RBI a game for a full season (151 R, 167 RBI in 151 games in 1937). His /162 averages are:

130 R, 207 H, 36 2B, 12 3B, 34 HR, 143 RBI, 368 TB.

Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig... there's the complete list of players in this history of baseball who best those TB and RBI numbers (Albert Pujols also currently has a slight lead in TB, but it's too early to tell yet whether that will hold up). Nobody in history, of course, matches all of them.

[Dodgerfan66]

If you're going to start picking arguments, at least choose ones that make sense.

And get your information correct. You say he only won one batting title; he won 2, with .381 in 1939 and .352 in 1940. I'd love for you to explain to me how exactly he didn't deserve the MVP award in 1939.

He's 14th all time in OPS, and 23rd in OPS+. He's 55th all time in RC, despite, as you said, only playing 13 years. He was the last player to touch 1 run and 1 RBI a game for a full season (151 R, 167 RBI in 151 games in 1937). His /162 averages are:

130 R, 207 H, 36 2B, 12 3B, 34 HR, 143 RBI, 368 TB.

Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig... there's the complete list of players in this history of baseball who best those TB and RBI numbers (Albert Pujols also currently has a slight lead in TB, but it's too early to tell yet whether that will hold up). Nobody in history, of course, matches all of them.

those seasonal averages are skewed by the fact he only played 13 seasons.

the 1941 mvp belong to ted williams....
i'll leave the 1939 mvp alone....but really 34 hr's a year isnt that impressive..many a player top that in their career....he only hit 40 once..other than that he was basically .320/30/120 which are good numbers but when you only play 13 seasons is not good enough.

[ElHalo]

those seasonal averages are skewed by the fact he only played 13 seasons.

Yes, that's true.

Sorry; this is a stupid conversation, and I really don't think anyone's going to go through the effort to continue on it any more. Yes, DiMaggio only played 13 seasons (although most people additionally credit him for the three he missed to WWII). For those 13 seasons, he was one of the top handful of players of all time. It'd be as if Sandy Koufax had the same level of peak, but lasted twice as long. There's no remotely legitimate argument that that's not a HoF'er.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

how come he's in the hall........was it because he was a yankee?

Actually, you could say that he's in the hall despite being a Yankee, since he played in a graveyard for righty spray hitters. Give him his war seasons and a fair park and you're talkin' well over 500 homers when 500 homers still meant something. Of course you realize he did much more than just hit homers though.

If you look at the members official opinions thread, you'll get an idea where people rank DiMaggio. I won't put screen names down, but here is where DiMaggio ranks among many Fever members. Also, if you're genuinely curious about DiMaggio, especially his defense, maybe you should contact SABRMatt and ask for PCA numbers. Never hurts to get as many opinions as possible.

14
6
16
38
13
16
19
14
10
22
12
16
23
14
8
12
14
13
15
19

[cbenson5]

Well, I was going to write an in depth argument of why Dimaggio should be in the Hall of Fame, but I'll just say if we are going to start kicking people out of the Hall Of Fame their should be a long list ahead of Joe Dimaggio. There wouldn't be but a handful of players left in by the time we got to debating Dimaggio.

[AstrosFan]

So you're basically saying you wouldn't put a player who sustained .320 30 120 over 13 seasons in the Hall of Fame?

Oh, and if memory serves me, Joe DiMaggio ranks either first or second on the list of players who lost the most home runs to their home park.

[LouGehrig]

dimaggio is similar to vernon wells or bernie williams...good but not hof

Please do NOT insult or denigrate Vernon Wells.

Your arguments have, after all these years, convinced me. You are right about DiMaggio. I really don't know what I was thinking all this time.

[Dodgerfan66]

joe was maybe when he played a top 20 player but really a guy who only played 13 seasons and only hit 40 hrs once and never walked more than 80 X a season. imo the only way dimaggio can get to the hall with those numbers is cause of defense which i heard as decent to good. ( due to his deep playing).....really for a top 5 centerfielder i really dont kno what puts him above griffey jr

[cbenson5]

DOdgerFan

You keep glossing over the fact that he missed three years due to the war.

[Dodgerfan66]

DOdgerFan

You keep glossing over the fact that he missed three years due to the war.

2 things on that

we really cant give credit for what didnt happen..its not fair to other players to perform...its like takin joe schmo from the street and projecting his major league numbers...no credit should be earned

also

his last season in 1942 showed a decline for joe...so he may have actually saved 3 bad seasons by goin to war......in 1942 he hit only .305/21/114 his worst season to date.....

[AstrosFan]

joe was maybe when he played a top 20 player but really a guy who only played 13 seasons and only hit 40 hrs once and never walked more than 80 X a season. imo the only way dimaggio can get to the hall with those numbers is cause of defense which i heard as decent to good. ( due to his deep playing).....really for a top 5 centerfielder i really dont kno what puts him above griffey jr

The three best players in DiMaggio's years were Williams, Musial, and DiMaggio, although I would rank DiMaggio third in that group. Oh, and he was a superb defensive outfielder.

[csh19792001]

those seasonal averages are skewed by the fact he only played 13 seasons.

the 1941 mvp belong to ted williams....
i'll leave the 1939 mvp alone....but really 34 hr's a year isnt that impressive..many a player top that in their career....he only hit 40 once..other than that he was basically .320/30/120 which are good numbers but when you only play 13 seasons is not good enough.

Should I even bother?

Dodger, have you seen Dimaggio's career homerun splits? Have you seen the splits for other Yankee righthanders of his era? Have you seen the right handed park factors for Yankee Stadium during his career? Have you even seen a schematic of Yankee Stadium in Dimaggio's era? Absolutely brutal for right handed power hitters.

Add to that he was one of the best outfielders in baseball (many believe one of the best centerfielders in history).

You also keep bringing up 13 seasons. He lost 3 seasons right smack in the middle of a baseball player's prime to WWII. You might want to consider how much Dimaggio lost before continuing to harp on the "short career" proposition.

[cbenson5]

"Joe DiMaggio was the greatest all-around player I ever saw. His career cannot be summed up in numbers and awards. It might sound corny, but he had a profound and lasting impact on the country."
— Ted Williams

I don't believe DImaggio is the greatest player of all time by any means, but he was certainly one of (if not the) the best players in his era. If Dimaggio is not the best centerfielder of his time, then who was?

[Dodgerfan66]

his numbers dont jump out to you like ruth and his 60 hr's or gehrig and his 184 or foxx's 58....theyre good numbers but he didnt last long enough....manny ramirez is/was a better offensive player should he be among the all-time greats at this point.....hes a good player but hes way hyped.....and he had none of the magical numbers........3000 hits, 500 hr's none of that.

he should of adjusted to yankee stadium then....williams played in fenway and dominated it.....thas part of greatness how do u face an obstacle....again he should not desereve any credit

[soberdennis]

dimaggio's career just wasnt long enough. most of the greats of that era had more leads examples

gehrig led in BA 1X, obp 5X, slg 2X, runs 4X, h 1X, tb 4X, hr 3X, rbi 5X

foxx led in ba 2X, obp 3X, slg 5X, runs 1X, tb 3X, hr 4X, rbi 3X

they face much tougher competition

joe d was not the best player on those teams as that honor goes to gehrig

he was not a deserving all star every year

his numbers are good but not hof like

his only great seasons were 1937 and 1941

he didnt steal bases either and his only comptetion throughout his career wa ted williams

dimaggio is similar to vernon wells or bernie williams...good but not hof

have you ever tried to be a power hitting RH batter in the old Yankee Stadium, where Left Field was where Homeruns went to die. Under those conditions, Joe did pretty well.
Gehrig was a teammate only 3 years and a small part of a 4th. Only during one of those years was Lou definitely the best player on the team-1936. In 1937, they were about even. In 1938, the disease that would eventually kill him was already beginning to take its toll on Lou. The rest of the time Joe was definitely the best player on the team.
How many power hitters strikeout only 8 more times than they hit homers. Joe made contact. And .325 is not something to ignore in any book.
He averaged over 100 RBI a year. Not that many players can claim that.
Joe is usually mentioned among the best defensive CFers of all time, often only behind Mays and Speaker.
I can accept that he probably should not have been named the Greatest Living Player in 1969. But not a HOFer. That I have to disagree with.

[csh19792001]

his numbers dont jump out to you like ruth and his 60 hr's or gehrig and his 184 or foxx's 58....theyre good numbers but he didnt last long enough....manny ramirez is/was a better offensive player should he be among the all-time greats at this point.....hes a good player but hes way hyped.....and he had none of the magical numbers........3000 hits, 500 hr's none of that.

he should of adjusted to yankee stadium then....williams played in fenway and dominated it.....thas part of greatness how do u face an obstacle....again he should not desereve any credit

Not worth the effort. This must be one of 538280's buddies.