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Thread: Unbelievable Little League Story.

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike D.
    When I was a kid (and I'm only 30), I played sandlot ball..and everyone played, everyone hit, and even when problems arose, we found ways around it to keep the game going.
    I'd been thinking almost exactly the same words as I'd been reading through some of the horror stories on the baseball fundamentals forum. There were two great things about sandlot ball: the one I appreciated at the time was that all day there weren't any grown-ups around. The one I appreciate now is that we had to choose up sides--sometimes with an odd number of players--decide disputed calls, when to quit and start over with new teams, all by ourselves. We all played very competitively, and some of us didn't even like one another very much, but as you say, we had to keep the game going, so we had our own conventions and intuitions about what was fair and not, and we relied on them. Never got much good as a ballplayer, but learned a lot about life.
    Last edited by Sliding Billy; 08-09-2006 at 02:44 PM.
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike D.
    To those who seem to think the coaches are in the right here...you really think coaches should be calling for intentional walks in little league games so they can win games?
    Then's what the point of playing a championship game which this was?

    Why? Wouldn't it be better for the pitcher to pitch to the big hitter, and either win or lose based on his abilities? Isn't it better for the big hitter to do the same? Whatever happened, the players woudn't have been crushed, and they'd have won or lost on their own merit, not on the workings of some coach who thinks he's Tony LaRussa or something.
    How about the kids who won? People keep accusing the coaches of trying to win "for themselves". What, the coach's team didn't deserve to win. Didi those kids work hard all summer to get to this point? Shouldn't the coach do all he can to help his kids do the best they can?

    I think the less adults have to do with kids playing (other than making sure they're safe), the better.
    I can agree with that.

  3. #28
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    Why are the adults so much more upset by this than the cancer kid? These adults should take a lesson from him. He's not pouting or giving interviews trashing the opposing coach for walking the other hitter to get to him. He took it in stide. Imagine that. He's not going to carry this stigma for the rest of his life. It's the upset adults that need to grow up.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honus Wagner Rules
    Why are the adults so much more upset by this than the cancer kid? These adults should take a lesson from him. He's not pouting or giving interviews trashing the opposing coach for walking the other hitter to get to him. He took it in stide. Imagine that. He's not going to carry this stigma for the rest of his life. It's the upset adults that need to grow up.
    Because people think they have a right to get upset over anything.... even tho they do not

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike D.
    The line "I'd have done the same thing. It's just good baseball strategy" is very telling.

    Does anyone else find it wrong that when we're talking about 9 and 10 year olds, that "baseball strategy" comes into play at all?

    If you're a coach of little kids, and you're playing to win, you should go buy a copy of MLB 2006 for Playstation, and leave little kids alone. It's not about you and your manager fantasy, it's about the kids having fun.

    Ugh...disgusts me.
    My thoughts exactly

    Your are not a 'manager' in little league, you are a mentor to teach the game and get kids off of their vide games and learn the greatest game ever invented

    No one should have an intentional walk in little league

    and the kid with cancer SOBBED himself to sleep that night....that is ok with you??????

    As for the kids

    I don't recall one win, lose or tie in little league

    I remember after the game, we got a free snowcone
    Last edited by Imapotato; 08-09-2006 at 03:59 PM.

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Astro
    Because people think they have a right to get upset over anything.... even tho they do not
    Interesting. I know our current administration is having its way with our constituional rights but I did not know our own emotions are now regulated.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imapotato
    My thoughts exactly

    Your are not a 'manager' in little league, you are a mentor to teach the game and get kids off of their vide games and learn the greatest game ever invented

    No one should have an intentional walk in little league

    and the kid with cancer SOBBED himself to sleep that night....that is ok with you??????

    As for the kids

    I don't recall one win, lose or tie in little league

    I remember after the game, we got a free snowcone
    It's life, read Ubi's post.....

    Life isnt fair, not everyone can be happy.... there are winners and losers, the mentality many people have today of "Everyone's a winner" is not even close....

    It is sad, yes, but it's life, life isnt always fair.... if you want to protect a child from the harsh realities of life, dont let him out... keep him inside his entire life then when they leave they can become exposed to reality....

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honus Wagner Rules
    Why are the adults so much more upset by this than the cancer kid? These adults should take a lesson from him. He's not pouting or giving interviews trashing the opposing coach for walking the other hitter to get to him. He took it in stide. Imagine that. He's not going to carry this stigma for the rest of his life. It's the upset adults that need to grow up.
    Actually any Adult with an ounce of moral fiber would be upset that coaches of 9-10 year olds would put winning infront of victimizing a sickly child.

    If Romney had come up with the game on the line and failed w/o the Intentional Walk, then thats life. Like I said before the baseball stratagy excuse is complete garbage. If their town league was anything like mine was for kids that age then there were no tryouts and every kid who wants to play plays. You go through the batting order and let the kids play. And parents who want their child to be treated normally are should be upset when another supposed adult decides to turn said inclusion in to an opportunity to victimize and single out for personal gain.

  9. #34
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    To everybody who says that the boy shouldn't have been playing if he was so weak, which do you think would be more cruel:

    What happened to him in this article or...

    Telling him that he can't play.

    At that age it's all about equal opportunities for anybody who wants to play so singling out children and telling them they can't play because they aren't in good enough condition is going to affect a child much worse than one incident in a game.

    Also, this incident could have been handled a lot better by the parents and coaches. Instead of bickering about whether it was right or not they should have been comforting and encouraging him. I'm sure that the reaction made would just have made him feel worse and the last thing a child with a disability needs is to have their disability put on display and paraded in public.
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astro
    It's life, read Ubi's post.....

    Life isnt fair, not everyone can be happy.... there are winners and losers, the mentality many people have today of "Everyone's a winner" is not even close....

    It is sad, yes, but it's life, life isnt always fair.... if you want to protect a child from the harsh realities of life, dont let him out... keep him inside his entire life then when they leave they can become exposed to reality....
    Youth Baseball is not life.

    Youth Baseball should be a diversion for him so he can enjoy being a kid, Not something to remind him that not only do you have cancer but adults, who should be caretakers of a fun activity and know better, will use it agisnt him and his team. That is unfair and unacceptable.

    Life is what that child and his family have to deal with every time the bring him in for treatment TO KEEP HIM ALIVE.

    Parents should not have to worry about protecting children from "harsh realities of life" when they send a 9 year old to play a ballgame.
    And this kid knows more about "harsh realities" than god willing you I, or anyone we know and love ever will.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ESPNFan
    Youth Baseball is not life.

    Youth Baseball should be a diversion for him so he can enjoy being a kid, Not something to remind him that not only do you have cancer but adults, who should be caretakers of a fun activity and know better, will use it agisnt him and his team. That is unfair and unacceptable.

    Life is what that child and his family have to deal with every time the bring him in for treatment TO KEEP HIM ALIVE.

    Parents should not have to worry about protecting children from "harsh realities of life" when they send a 9 year old to play a ballgame.
    And this kid knows more about "harsh realities" than god willing you I, or anyone we know and love ever will.
    He was playing baseball, he got up and he struck out.... how does that make the other coach's "villains"? Were they supposed to let him get a hit because he had cancer?

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Astro
    He was playing baseball, he got up and he struck out.... how does that make the other coach's "villains"?
    If you haven't figured that out by now then we can't tell you.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elvis
    If you haven't figured that out by now then we can't tell you.
    Dont get me wrong, I think it was a sad move... but if you did not want something like this to happen, then dont allow him to play.... and if something like this does happen, dont complain about it afterward, you knew what you were getting him into, and something like this should be expected

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Astro
    Dont get me wrong, I think it was a sad move... but if you did not want something like this to happen, then dont allow him to play.... and if something like this does happen, dont complain about it afterward, you knew what you were getting him into, and something like this should be expected
    It was the wrong thing to do. It's called sportsmanship. That's what little leagues should be about teaching - sportsmanship, character and fair play, not "let's win at all costs no matter who gets hurt".

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astro
    Dont get me wrong, I think it was a sad move... but if you did not want something like this to happen, then dont allow him to play....
    If you refer to my earlier post you'll see my view on this. It just doesn't seem right to deny a 9/10 year old the right to play baseball.
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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astro
    Dont get me wrong, I think it was a sad move... but if you did not want something like this to happen, then dont allow him to play.... and if something like this does happen, dont complain about it afterward, you knew what you were getting him into, and something like this should be expected
    Your kidding me right?

    If you think something like this should be EXPECTED then your out of your mind.

    His parents knew very well what they were getting him into when they signed him up for Little League. What they did not know was that there were adults who would deliberately target him for his health related lack of ability.
    And lets not forget that these coaches also took an oportunity to shine away from the good player in an everyone plays league. At this level of baseball thats just sad. Let the kids decide the game themselves.

  17. #42
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    So lets say that the kid doesn't have cancer lets just say he is just some uncoordinated string bean they stick out in Right Field. Do we even hear about it? Nope. Is intentionally walking the kid ahead of him to get to the string bean right? Well probably a lot of you would say yes. But think about this, remember your own days in TBall and little league. Did you play every batter the same? Did you play every fielder the same? Did you try to hit it to the best fieler on the team or did you try to hit it towards the get picking his nose and looking into the stands? When some weak hitting uncoordinated little kid came up did you play him the same as the "big" kid? I'm willing to bet that if you played little league baseball at all or even pick up games you didn't treat everybody equally.


    Finally I would like to add that we know next to nothing about this game and what actually happened. We honestly don't even know if it was a blatant intentional walk. All Reilly said was that they decided to walk "Jordan". We don't even know how Romney was used, For instance in our league our teams had about 14 or so kids in it near the end of the game the batting order would get thrown out the window so that kids could get at bats. It could very well be that Romney was sitting on the bench the entire game and because of the rule his coach had to put him in there that inning or the inning before. So it is quite possible that his own team wasn't even treating as utopically as you guys would wish. Bottom line is we only have Reilly's version and it doesn't have a lot of details but it has a lot of emotional manipulation.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
    So lets say that the kid doesn't have cancer lets just say he is just some uncoordinated string bean they stick out in Right Field. Do we even hear about it? Nope. Is intentionally walking the kid ahead of him to get to the string bean right? Well probably a lot of you would say yes. But think about this, remember your own days in TBall and little league. Did you play every batter the same? Did you play every fielder the same? Did you try to hit it to the best fieler on the team or did you try to hit it towards the get picking his nose and looking into the stands? When some weak hitting uncoordinated little kid came up did you play him the same as the "big" kid? I'm willing to bet that if you played little league baseball at all or even pick up games you didn't treat everybody equally.
    I would agree that at one stage or another people tend to try to take advantage of weaknesses in players. But these tend to be heat of the moment type of decisions and compared to a premeditated choice by an adult coach who's supposed to be teaching good sportsmanship to young impressionable athletes, they don't seem that bad.
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  19. #44
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    If I had been the opposing coach, I doubt if I would intentionally walk anyone at that level. This is moot, though, because I would never, ever coach youth baseball.

    If I were that kid's coach, I would suck it up and try to explain to that kid that not everyone sees your condition as a crutch. I would not go so far as to say get used to it, however.

    If I were the parents of a kid in that condition, I would be pretty leery of having him play in a competitive league like that. I would also be wishing that the other parents on both sides would shut up about it.

    This actually sounds like a good life lesson for the kid. Nearly every kid gets taken advantage of in some way, what happened to this kid was just more public than others.

    I've always that Youth baseball stinks, even when I played it. This story (if it's true) is another reason why.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
    So lets say that the kid doesn't have cancer lets just say he is just some uncoordinated string bean they stick out in Right Field. Do we even hear about it? Nope. Is intentionally walking the kid ahead of him to get to the string bean right? Well probably a lot of you would say yes. But think about this, remember your own days in TBall and little league. Did you play every batter the same? Did you play every fielder the same? Did you try to hit it to the best fieler on the team or did you try to hit it towards the get picking his nose and looking into the stands? When some weak hitting uncoordinated little kid came up did you play him the same as the "big" kid? I'm willing to bet that if you played little league baseball at all or even pick up games you didn't treat everybody equally.


    Finally I would like to add that we know next to nothing about this game and what actually happened. We honestly don't even know if it was a blatant intentional walk. All Reilly said was that they decided to walk "Jordan". We don't even know how Romney was used, For instance in our league our teams had about 14 or so kids in it near the end of the game the batting order would get thrown out the window so that kids could get at bats. It could very well be that Romney was sitting on the bench the entire game and because of the rule his coach had to put him in there that inning or the inning before. So it is quite possible that his own team wasn't even treating as utopically as you guys would wish. Bottom line is we only have Reilly's version and it doesn't have a lot of details but it has a lot of emotional manipulation.
    Ubiquitous, me personally I honestly believe that at that age, unless its some type of select team, that the coaches should coach, teach and mentor the children and not insert themselves into game situations. Pitching around children in a league like this just shows how patheticly shallow the coaches are, reguardless of the health of the batter they are facing. The Children should decide the game, not adults living out their bigleague managerial fantasies. I understand and agree with your point about kids playing kids differently ,but you have to realise the difference between kids interacting and reacting to the abilites of the other kids, and an adults decision to not only deprive a child who excells a opportunity at success but to do so to capitalize on the disability of another kid.

    As far as what actually happend in the game goes, we do only have Reilly's version but his description of the reactions of all who witnessed the walk would seem to imply that there was some type of blatant disrespect involved. If that truely is the case, such disgraceful behavior should warrent town officials to seriously question weather the coaches of that team should be allowed to coach or be in any position where they could be looked on as rolemodels.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ESPNFan
    Ubiquitous, me personally I honestly believe that at that age, unless its some type of select team, that the coaches should coach, teach and mentor the children and not insert themselves into game situations. Pitching around children in a league like this just shows how patheticly shallow the coaches are, reguardless of the health of the batter they are facing. The Children should decide the game, not adults living out their bigleague managerial fantasies.
    This is what I don't get. How are these coaches trying to live out their fantasies? They're just trying to win the championship game, probably just as much for the kids as for themsevles. Walking this kid Jordan to face Romney gave them almost a sure win (and championship) so they took it. This is not unfair, this is playing by the rules, and it's NOT them "living out their fantasies".

    I understand and agree with your point about kids playing kids differently ,but you have to realise the difference between kids interacting and reacting to the abilites of the other kids, and an adults decision to not only deprive a child who excells a opportunity at success but to do so to capitalize on the disability of another kid.
    Capitalizing so they can win? Maybe they should get a taste of the real world here, and make an actual baseball decision. I don't care what age these guys are, this is a championship game (meaning, since standings, etc are kept they're already making it competitive), and they should be playing to win.

    When I play sports (or baseball), I play to win the game. It doesn't matter if the other guys suck. If I"m playing football, and on the other side the team gives the ball to a weak, sickly kid who can't run, what do you want me to do? Not tackle him behind the line for a 5 yard loss, and instead let him gain yards? It's the same type of situation.

    As far as what actually happend in the game goes, we do only have Reilly's version but his description of the reactions of all who witnessed the walk would seem to imply that there was some type of blatant disrespect involved. If that truely is the case, such disgraceful behavior should warrent town officials to seriously question weather the coaches of that team should be allowed to coach or be in any position where they could be looked on as rolemodels.
    Blatant disrespect? I know if I was on the other team (not Jordan or Romney's) I would be upset is they didn't walk Jordan.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by 538280
    This is what I don't get. How are these coaches trying to live out their fantasies? They're just trying to win the championship game, probably just as much for the kids as for themsevles. Walking this kid Jordan to face Romney gave them almost a sure win (and championship) so they took it. This is not unfair, this is playing by the rules, and it's NOT them "living out their fantasies".



    Capitalizing so they can win? Maybe they should get a taste of the real world here, and make an actual baseball decision. I don't care what age these guys are, this is a championship game (meaning, since standings, etc are kept they're already making it competitive), and they should be playing to win.

    When I play sports (or baseball), I play to win the game. It doesn't matter if the other guys suck. If I"m playing football, and on the other side the team gives the ball to a weak, sickly kid who can't run, what do you want me to do? Not tackle him behind the line for a 5 yard loss, and instead let him gain yards? It's the same type of situation.



    Blatant disrespect? I know if I was on the other team (not Jordan or Romney's) I would be upset is they didn't walk Jordan.
    It's not about the legality of the decision its the morality of the decision. We can all agree that it was the right choice in regards to a stratigic point of view, but at childhood level it's about what goes on on the field and the outcome of a game should be decided by how the children play.

    And with your football scenario, I don't think it's the same thing. It's about the fact that he walked the player before and not the fact that he struck out this Romney kid.
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  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padday
    It's not about the legality of the decision its the morality of the decision we can all agree that it was the right choice in regards to a coaching and stratigic point of view, but at childhood level it's about what goes on on the field and the outcome of a game should be decided by how the children play.
    In a championship game? You're going to play not to win in a championship game? By there being a championship game you're already saying you want competition and drive to win. Otherwise they wouldn't keep standings. Competition is what fuels the kids to play. As much as you may want it this way or try to make it this way, it's almost always going to be about winning and losing. I know, playing sports, that I could never be happy unless my team was doing all we can to win.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by 538280
    In a championship game? You're going to play not to win in a championship game? By there being a championship game you're already saying you want competition and drive to win. Otherwise they wouldn't keep standings. Competition is what fuels the kids to play. As much as you may want it this way or try to make it this way, it's almost always going to be about winning and losing. I know, playing sports, that I could never be happy unless my team was doing all we can to win.
    I never said that you should play not to win but play to be fair and a good rolemodel in the case of the coach. At their level the game should be about learning about the game, learning about life, making friends, learning about good sportsmanship and most importantly about having fun and if you happen to win then that is an added bonus.
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  25. #50
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    Again though we have no real idea how "Jordan" got walked. But let us ignore that and ask the question again. What if Romney doesn't have cancer? In fact what if Romney simply isn't as good as Jordan? What if Jordan is a really good player?

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