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Thread: Unbelievable Little League Story.

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astro
    Dont get me wrong, I think it was a sad move... but if you did not want something like this to happen, then dont allow him to play.... and if something like this does happen, dont complain about it afterward, you knew what you were getting him into, and something like this should be expected
    Your kidding me right?

    If you think something like this should be EXPECTED then your out of your mind.

    His parents knew very well what they were getting him into when they signed him up for Little League. What they did not know was that there were adults who would deliberately target him for his health related lack of ability.
    And lets not forget that these coaches also took an oportunity to shine away from the good player in an everyone plays league. At this level of baseball thats just sad. Let the kids decide the game themselves.

  2. #42
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    So lets say that the kid doesn't have cancer lets just say he is just some uncoordinated string bean they stick out in Right Field. Do we even hear about it? Nope. Is intentionally walking the kid ahead of him to get to the string bean right? Well probably a lot of you would say yes. But think about this, remember your own days in TBall and little league. Did you play every batter the same? Did you play every fielder the same? Did you try to hit it to the best fieler on the team or did you try to hit it towards the get picking his nose and looking into the stands? When some weak hitting uncoordinated little kid came up did you play him the same as the "big" kid? I'm willing to bet that if you played little league baseball at all or even pick up games you didn't treat everybody equally.


    Finally I would like to add that we know next to nothing about this game and what actually happened. We honestly don't even know if it was a blatant intentional walk. All Reilly said was that they decided to walk "Jordan". We don't even know how Romney was used, For instance in our league our teams had about 14 or so kids in it near the end of the game the batting order would get thrown out the window so that kids could get at bats. It could very well be that Romney was sitting on the bench the entire game and because of the rule his coach had to put him in there that inning or the inning before. So it is quite possible that his own team wasn't even treating as utopically as you guys would wish. Bottom line is we only have Reilly's version and it doesn't have a lot of details but it has a lot of emotional manipulation.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
    So lets say that the kid doesn't have cancer lets just say he is just some uncoordinated string bean they stick out in Right Field. Do we even hear about it? Nope. Is intentionally walking the kid ahead of him to get to the string bean right? Well probably a lot of you would say yes. But think about this, remember your own days in TBall and little league. Did you play every batter the same? Did you play every fielder the same? Did you try to hit it to the best fieler on the team or did you try to hit it towards the get picking his nose and looking into the stands? When some weak hitting uncoordinated little kid came up did you play him the same as the "big" kid? I'm willing to bet that if you played little league baseball at all or even pick up games you didn't treat everybody equally.
    I would agree that at one stage or another people tend to try to take advantage of weaknesses in players. But these tend to be heat of the moment type of decisions and compared to a premeditated choice by an adult coach who's supposed to be teaching good sportsmanship to young impressionable athletes, they don't seem that bad.
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  4. #44
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    If I had been the opposing coach, I doubt if I would intentionally walk anyone at that level. This is moot, though, because I would never, ever coach youth baseball.

    If I were that kid's coach, I would suck it up and try to explain to that kid that not everyone sees your condition as a crutch. I would not go so far as to say get used to it, however.

    If I were the parents of a kid in that condition, I would be pretty leery of having him play in a competitive league like that. I would also be wishing that the other parents on both sides would shut up about it.

    This actually sounds like a good life lesson for the kid. Nearly every kid gets taken advantage of in some way, what happened to this kid was just more public than others.

    I've always that Youth baseball stinks, even when I played it. This story (if it's true) is another reason why.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
    So lets say that the kid doesn't have cancer lets just say he is just some uncoordinated string bean they stick out in Right Field. Do we even hear about it? Nope. Is intentionally walking the kid ahead of him to get to the string bean right? Well probably a lot of you would say yes. But think about this, remember your own days in TBall and little league. Did you play every batter the same? Did you play every fielder the same? Did you try to hit it to the best fieler on the team or did you try to hit it towards the get picking his nose and looking into the stands? When some weak hitting uncoordinated little kid came up did you play him the same as the "big" kid? I'm willing to bet that if you played little league baseball at all or even pick up games you didn't treat everybody equally.


    Finally I would like to add that we know next to nothing about this game and what actually happened. We honestly don't even know if it was a blatant intentional walk. All Reilly said was that they decided to walk "Jordan". We don't even know how Romney was used, For instance in our league our teams had about 14 or so kids in it near the end of the game the batting order would get thrown out the window so that kids could get at bats. It could very well be that Romney was sitting on the bench the entire game and because of the rule his coach had to put him in there that inning or the inning before. So it is quite possible that his own team wasn't even treating as utopically as you guys would wish. Bottom line is we only have Reilly's version and it doesn't have a lot of details but it has a lot of emotional manipulation.
    Ubiquitous, me personally I honestly believe that at that age, unless its some type of select team, that the coaches should coach, teach and mentor the children and not insert themselves into game situations. Pitching around children in a league like this just shows how patheticly shallow the coaches are, reguardless of the health of the batter they are facing. The Children should decide the game, not adults living out their bigleague managerial fantasies. I understand and agree with your point about kids playing kids differently ,but you have to realise the difference between kids interacting and reacting to the abilites of the other kids, and an adults decision to not only deprive a child who excells a opportunity at success but to do so to capitalize on the disability of another kid.

    As far as what actually happend in the game goes, we do only have Reilly's version but his description of the reactions of all who witnessed the walk would seem to imply that there was some type of blatant disrespect involved. If that truely is the case, such disgraceful behavior should warrent town officials to seriously question weather the coaches of that team should be allowed to coach or be in any position where they could be looked on as rolemodels.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ESPNFan
    Ubiquitous, me personally I honestly believe that at that age, unless its some type of select team, that the coaches should coach, teach and mentor the children and not insert themselves into game situations. Pitching around children in a league like this just shows how patheticly shallow the coaches are, reguardless of the health of the batter they are facing. The Children should decide the game, not adults living out their bigleague managerial fantasies.
    This is what I don't get. How are these coaches trying to live out their fantasies? They're just trying to win the championship game, probably just as much for the kids as for themsevles. Walking this kid Jordan to face Romney gave them almost a sure win (and championship) so they took it. This is not unfair, this is playing by the rules, and it's NOT them "living out their fantasies".

    I understand and agree with your point about kids playing kids differently ,but you have to realise the difference between kids interacting and reacting to the abilites of the other kids, and an adults decision to not only deprive a child who excells a opportunity at success but to do so to capitalize on the disability of another kid.
    Capitalizing so they can win? Maybe they should get a taste of the real world here, and make an actual baseball decision. I don't care what age these guys are, this is a championship game (meaning, since standings, etc are kept they're already making it competitive), and they should be playing to win.

    When I play sports (or baseball), I play to win the game. It doesn't matter if the other guys suck. If I"m playing football, and on the other side the team gives the ball to a weak, sickly kid who can't run, what do you want me to do? Not tackle him behind the line for a 5 yard loss, and instead let him gain yards? It's the same type of situation.

    As far as what actually happend in the game goes, we do only have Reilly's version but his description of the reactions of all who witnessed the walk would seem to imply that there was some type of blatant disrespect involved. If that truely is the case, such disgraceful behavior should warrent town officials to seriously question weather the coaches of that team should be allowed to coach or be in any position where they could be looked on as rolemodels.
    Blatant disrespect? I know if I was on the other team (not Jordan or Romney's) I would be upset is they didn't walk Jordan.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by 538280
    This is what I don't get. How are these coaches trying to live out their fantasies? They're just trying to win the championship game, probably just as much for the kids as for themsevles. Walking this kid Jordan to face Romney gave them almost a sure win (and championship) so they took it. This is not unfair, this is playing by the rules, and it's NOT them "living out their fantasies".



    Capitalizing so they can win? Maybe they should get a taste of the real world here, and make an actual baseball decision. I don't care what age these guys are, this is a championship game (meaning, since standings, etc are kept they're already making it competitive), and they should be playing to win.

    When I play sports (or baseball), I play to win the game. It doesn't matter if the other guys suck. If I"m playing football, and on the other side the team gives the ball to a weak, sickly kid who can't run, what do you want me to do? Not tackle him behind the line for a 5 yard loss, and instead let him gain yards? It's the same type of situation.



    Blatant disrespect? I know if I was on the other team (not Jordan or Romney's) I would be upset is they didn't walk Jordan.
    It's not about the legality of the decision its the morality of the decision. We can all agree that it was the right choice in regards to a stratigic point of view, but at childhood level it's about what goes on on the field and the outcome of a game should be decided by how the children play.

    And with your football scenario, I don't think it's the same thing. It's about the fact that he walked the player before and not the fact that he struck out this Romney kid.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padday
    It's not about the legality of the decision its the morality of the decision we can all agree that it was the right choice in regards to a coaching and stratigic point of view, but at childhood level it's about what goes on on the field and the outcome of a game should be decided by how the children play.
    In a championship game? You're going to play not to win in a championship game? By there being a championship game you're already saying you want competition and drive to win. Otherwise they wouldn't keep standings. Competition is what fuels the kids to play. As much as you may want it this way or try to make it this way, it's almost always going to be about winning and losing. I know, playing sports, that I could never be happy unless my team was doing all we can to win.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by 538280
    In a championship game? You're going to play not to win in a championship game? By there being a championship game you're already saying you want competition and drive to win. Otherwise they wouldn't keep standings. Competition is what fuels the kids to play. As much as you may want it this way or try to make it this way, it's almost always going to be about winning and losing. I know, playing sports, that I could never be happy unless my team was doing all we can to win.
    I never said that you should play not to win but play to be fair and a good rolemodel in the case of the coach. At their level the game should be about learning about the game, learning about life, making friends, learning about good sportsmanship and most importantly about having fun and if you happen to win then that is an added bonus.
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  10. #50
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    Again though we have no real idea how "Jordan" got walked. But let us ignore that and ask the question again. What if Romney doesn't have cancer? In fact what if Romney simply isn't as good as Jordan? What if Jordan is a really good player?

  11. #51
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    Would I intentionally walk a kid in the last inning with two outs and a runner on third? No, not at that level. The skill level of the kids involved makes it likely a steal of home on a miscatch of one of those intentional balls or even while Romney is up to bat likely. I would tell the pitcher to give Jordan nothing good to hit but I wouldn't want my pitcher trying to hit a moving target or my catcher moving while trying to catch.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padday
    I never said that you should play not to win but play to be fair and a good rolemodel in the case of the coach. At their level the game should be about learning about the game, learning about life, making friends, learning about good sportsmanship and most importantly about having fun and if you happen to win then that is an added bonus.
    Being a good role model? If I were on that team, and they didn't walk Jordan I wouldn't be happy with the coach for what he did.

    Again, if it's about learning the game why are they having a championship game. Sports is about competition, not learning life lessons or making friends. I think we disagree on the meaning.

    When I play, I play with good sportsmanship, not cheating or anything like that, but I also play, first and foremost, to win. And if that means I have to take advantage of someone else's weakness I would not stop at it. Would you object to a team applying a shift on that level? Throwing a curveball because they know a certain kid can't hit it? It sounds to me like you're against a team trying to win if they apply any sort of strategic element.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
    Again though we have no real idea how "Jordan" got walked. But let us ignore that and ask the question again. What if Romney doesn't have cancer? In fact what if Romney simply isn't as good as Jordan? What if Jordan is a really good player?
    Good question and since nobody has answered the original question you asked I'd guess nobody would have made an uproar quite like this. I think though that these games should be left up to the children to decide and weaker children shouldn't be descriminated against especially (and I know I sound like a broken record now) by the coach who should be a rolemodel.
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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padday
    I never said that you should play not to win but play to be fair and a good rolemodel in the case of the coach. At their level the game should be about learning about the game, learning about life, making friends, learning about good sportsmanship and most importantly about having fun and if you happen to win then that is an added bonus.

    Well I'm sure the kids on the winning team had fun, and I think everybody learned about the game. Don't pitch to the best hitters, pitch to the weaker ones. I also think that if the parents and opposing coaches hadn't thrown a hissy fit either most kids wouldn't have cared either. It would have been oh well we lost lets go get some ice cream. Or if you really want to protect the kids from harm there shouldn't have even been a championship game. It should have just been a regular season, who ever has the most wins gets the trophy. Or even better like some leagues everybody who participates gets a trophy regardless of record.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padday
    by the coach who should be a rolemodel.
    But what does being a rolemodel mean? Was the coach fair? Did he cheat? Did he break the rules? And if it is unfair who is it unfair too? If it is unfair to Romney then every at bat of Romney's is unfair, his presence on the team is unfair to his team and the opposing team, and Romney should not have been there or some sort of special dispensation should have been given to him. For instance in one league I belonged to we had a handicapped kid who played and his at bats didn't count. He got to hit and play and nobody had to bite the bullet for him or get put in an awkward situation.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by 538280
    Again, if it's about learning the game why are they having a championship game. Sports is about competition, not learning life lessons or making friends. I think we disagree on the meaning.
    Why can't learning the game and playing in a championship go together, after all you won't be able to play in one if you haven't learned the game. And by life lessons, I mean things like if your coach tells you that taking advantage of a players weakness in a blatant manner, as the one explained in the article, is unethical they could use that advice in a real life situation.Less fortunate people are exploited everyday and if children can learn that this leads to terrible things then that surely is a positive, right? And I just think that going out to win as your top priority is a bad attitude to have.
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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
    Well I'm sure the kids on the winning team had fun, and I think everybody learned about the game. Don't pitch to the best hitters, pitch to the weaker ones. I also think that if the parents and opposing coaches hadn't thrown a hissy fit either most kids wouldn't have cared either. It would have been oh well we lost lets go get some ice cream. Or if you really want to protect the kids from harm there shouldn't have even been a championship game. It should have just been a regular season, who ever has the most wins gets the trophy. Or even better like some leagues everybody who participates gets a trophy regardless of record.
    I agree with you totally on the parents reaction. It only made it worse. But I have actually participated in spoting events where parents start swearing at umpires and officials and jeering at 12 year olds, and this only gets the kids rallied up aswell. One game they stopped it early because there was a fight at the end (I was huddled in a corner away from the fight)and it all started because of parents on the sideline. Some were even encouragin the violence. It was ludicrace.
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  18. #58
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    One thing overlooked is why did the Sox coach place this cancer survivor after his best hitter in the lineup? These are only 9 and 10-yr olds, and one of them wears a helmet when he is an outfielder, so I'm not buying the "win at all costs" philosophy of the Yankees coaches.

    I wouldn't have IBB walked the kid but would have had a talk with my pitcher to discuss how to pitch to him.

    "All coaches put their worst fielder in RF". Again, these coaches don't strike me as two I would want to have coaching my son in LL. Sometimes the worst place to put your worst fielder is RF. If your LL pitcher throws hard then a lot of hits will be going to RF. We used to switch outfielders from LF to RF depending on who we had pitching. They will soon find this out for themselves.

    My son was intentionally walked in a LL Majors Championship Game once. The strategy worked and we didn't score. We did not walk their star player with only one out left in the game. He hit a double, and then scored the tieing run. In hindsight, if we did IBB him we probably would have won the game on a no-hitter.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by 538280
    Sports is about competition, not learning life lessons or making friends.
    At 9 years old it shouldn't by about competition. It should be about having fun, learning the basic skills of the game, sportsmanship, fair play and making friends.

  20. #60
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    It's a little league game parents and coaches, its about teaching the fundamentals, there is no big payoff for winning the championship. Pitch to the kid, and what goes down goes down. I wouldnt rank this up there with coaches paying children twenty bucks to hit a handicapped kid in the head, or parents fighting in the stands or in parkinglots about a play or a call. Remember its about the kids, why wont some parents realize this?

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