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Thread: Unbelievable Little League Story.

  1. #51
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    Would I intentionally walk a kid in the last inning with two outs and a runner on third? No, not at that level. The skill level of the kids involved makes it likely a steal of home on a miscatch of one of those intentional balls or even while Romney is up to bat likely. I would tell the pitcher to give Jordan nothing good to hit but I wouldn't want my pitcher trying to hit a moving target or my catcher moving while trying to catch.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padday
    I never said that you should play not to win but play to be fair and a good rolemodel in the case of the coach. At their level the game should be about learning about the game, learning about life, making friends, learning about good sportsmanship and most importantly about having fun and if you happen to win then that is an added bonus.
    Being a good role model? If I were on that team, and they didn't walk Jordan I wouldn't be happy with the coach for what he did.

    Again, if it's about learning the game why are they having a championship game. Sports is about competition, not learning life lessons or making friends. I think we disagree on the meaning.

    When I play, I play with good sportsmanship, not cheating or anything like that, but I also play, first and foremost, to win. And if that means I have to take advantage of someone else's weakness I would not stop at it. Would you object to a team applying a shift on that level? Throwing a curveball because they know a certain kid can't hit it? It sounds to me like you're against a team trying to win if they apply any sort of strategic element.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
    Again though we have no real idea how "Jordan" got walked. But let us ignore that and ask the question again. What if Romney doesn't have cancer? In fact what if Romney simply isn't as good as Jordan? What if Jordan is a really good player?
    Good question and since nobody has answered the original question you asked I'd guess nobody would have made an uproar quite like this. I think though that these games should be left up to the children to decide and weaker children shouldn't be descriminated against especially (and I know I sound like a broken record now) by the coach who should be a rolemodel.
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padday
    I never said that you should play not to win but play to be fair and a good rolemodel in the case of the coach. At their level the game should be about learning about the game, learning about life, making friends, learning about good sportsmanship and most importantly about having fun and if you happen to win then that is an added bonus.

    Well I'm sure the kids on the winning team had fun, and I think everybody learned about the game. Don't pitch to the best hitters, pitch to the weaker ones. I also think that if the parents and opposing coaches hadn't thrown a hissy fit either most kids wouldn't have cared either. It would have been oh well we lost lets go get some ice cream. Or if you really want to protect the kids from harm there shouldn't have even been a championship game. It should have just been a regular season, who ever has the most wins gets the trophy. Or even better like some leagues everybody who participates gets a trophy regardless of record.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padday
    by the coach who should be a rolemodel.
    But what does being a rolemodel mean? Was the coach fair? Did he cheat? Did he break the rules? And if it is unfair who is it unfair too? If it is unfair to Romney then every at bat of Romney's is unfair, his presence on the team is unfair to his team and the opposing team, and Romney should not have been there or some sort of special dispensation should have been given to him. For instance in one league I belonged to we had a handicapped kid who played and his at bats didn't count. He got to hit and play and nobody had to bite the bullet for him or get put in an awkward situation.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by 538280
    Again, if it's about learning the game why are they having a championship game. Sports is about competition, not learning life lessons or making friends. I think we disagree on the meaning.
    Why can't learning the game and playing in a championship go together, after all you won't be able to play in one if you haven't learned the game. And by life lessons, I mean things like if your coach tells you that taking advantage of a players weakness in a blatant manner, as the one explained in the article, is unethical they could use that advice in a real life situation.Less fortunate people are exploited everyday and if children can learn that this leads to terrible things then that surely is a positive, right? And I just think that going out to win as your top priority is a bad attitude to have.
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
    Well I'm sure the kids on the winning team had fun, and I think everybody learned about the game. Don't pitch to the best hitters, pitch to the weaker ones. I also think that if the parents and opposing coaches hadn't thrown a hissy fit either most kids wouldn't have cared either. It would have been oh well we lost lets go get some ice cream. Or if you really want to protect the kids from harm there shouldn't have even been a championship game. It should have just been a regular season, who ever has the most wins gets the trophy. Or even better like some leagues everybody who participates gets a trophy regardless of record.
    I agree with you totally on the parents reaction. It only made it worse. But I have actually participated in spoting events where parents start swearing at umpires and officials and jeering at 12 year olds, and this only gets the kids rallied up aswell. One game they stopped it early because there was a fight at the end (I was huddled in a corner away from the fight)and it all started because of parents on the sideline. Some were even encouragin the violence. It was ludicrace.
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  8. #58
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    One thing overlooked is why did the Sox coach place this cancer survivor after his best hitter in the lineup? These are only 9 and 10-yr olds, and one of them wears a helmet when he is an outfielder, so I'm not buying the "win at all costs" philosophy of the Yankees coaches.

    I wouldn't have IBB walked the kid but would have had a talk with my pitcher to discuss how to pitch to him.

    "All coaches put their worst fielder in RF". Again, these coaches don't strike me as two I would want to have coaching my son in LL. Sometimes the worst place to put your worst fielder is RF. If your LL pitcher throws hard then a lot of hits will be going to RF. We used to switch outfielders from LF to RF depending on who we had pitching. They will soon find this out for themselves.

    My son was intentionally walked in a LL Majors Championship Game once. The strategy worked and we didn't score. We did not walk their star player with only one out left in the game. He hit a double, and then scored the tieing run. In hindsight, if we did IBB him we probably would have won the game on a no-hitter.

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by 538280
    Sports is about competition, not learning life lessons or making friends.
    At 9 years old it shouldn't by about competition. It should be about having fun, learning the basic skills of the game, sportsmanship, fair play and making friends.

  10. #60
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    It's a little league game parents and coaches, its about teaching the fundamentals, there is no big payoff for winning the championship. Pitch to the kid, and what goes down goes down. I wouldnt rank this up there with coaches paying children twenty bucks to hit a handicapped kid in the head, or parents fighting in the stands or in parkinglots about a play or a call. Remember its about the kids, why wont some parents realize this?

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by 538280
    This is what I don't get. How are these coaches trying to live out their fantasies? They're just trying to win the championship game, probably just as much for the kids as for themsevles. Walking this kid Jordan to face Romney gave them almost a sure win (and championship) so they took it. This is not unfair, this is playing by the rules, and it's NOT them "living out their fantasies".

    Capitalizing so they can win? Maybe they should get a taste of the real world here, and make an actual baseball decision. I don't care what age these guys are, this is a championship game (meaning, since standings, etc are kept they're already making it competitive), and they should be playing to win.

    When I play sports (or baseball), I play to win the game. It doesn't matter if the other guys suck. If I"m playing football, and on the other side the team gives the ball to a weak, sickly kid who can't run, what do you want me to do? Not tackle him behind the line for a 5 yard loss, and instead let him gain yards? It's the same type of situation.

    Blatant disrespect? I know if I was on the other team (not Jordan or Romney's) I would be upset is they didn't walk Jordan.
    I would say that Intentionally walking a batter is counterproductive to what an "everyone plays, everyone makes the team" league is trying to accomplish.
    Add to the fact that they did it to pitch to a obviously disabled child and that the Coaches admitted it was "baseball strategy" and you have exactly the type of overly competitive adults who should never coach a youth sport. If your willing to publicly embarrass a child in order to win a game then yes I think these guys were living vicariously through their team and its accomplishments. These are the same type of men who falsify birth certificates and genreally give youth sports a bad name.

    And yes it was a championship game and the kids do play to win but as we see with the 4 run per inning cap there were controls in place to prevent excessive humiliation etc.. Unfortunately that spirit was lost on the oafs who coached that game. And thats great that you play to win as you should, but how adults play pick up games and how youth sports should be run are two different things.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
    Again though we have no real idea how "Jordan" got walked. But let us ignore that and ask the question again. What if Romney doesn't have cancer? In fact what if Romney simply isn't as good as Jordan? What if Jordan is a really good player?
    Now We Do.

    http://www.clippertoday.com/print_th...&sdetail=15583

    Scream across the diamond to intentionally walk the hitter because the cancer victim is too weak and frail to hit the ball.
    How anyone can defend these guys is mindboggling now.
    Last edited by ESPNFan; 08-09-2006 at 08:57 PM.

  13. #63
    If that's what was truly said within earshot of the boy than that's beyond disgusting--it's vile beyond comprehension. These are 9-year old kids!

  14. #64
    What a pathetic story.


    Stories like this are why everyone in America thinks they are entitled to something. It has been bred by this pitiful attitude that we are supposed to protect everyone from themselves like everyone is a damn incompetent. Everybody is just supposed to play nice and hold hands and everyone is a winner YAY!!!


    Screw that. If it's not about winning then they shouldn't have a championship game or even keep score. The kid wasn't upset, so why are the self-righteous parents trying to live vicariously through him. If the parents are afraid of him failing then put him in a little league where they don't keep score and everyone lobs it underhand to all the batters so nobody gets offended.

    And I'm not sure why it was mentioned earlier in the thread, but I was on multiple terrible baseball teams when I was growing up. A 3-15 team when I was 9 and a 1-19 team when I was 12. Both of them sucked...a lot. But never once did I want the other teams to let up on us just because our team was terrible. Hell I was so damn happy when I pitched us to our only win that 12 year old year.


    And I think what it getting lost in all of this is the stupidity of the losing coach. None of this would have happened if he didn't bat his worst hitter after his best one. Not sure where he thought that was a good idea.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by flash143817
    What a pathetic story.


    Stories like this are why everyone in America thinks they are entitled to something. It has been bred by this pitiful attitude that we are supposed to protect everyone from themselves like everyone is a damn incompetent. Everybody is just supposed to play nice and hold hands and everyone is a winner YAY!!!


    Screw that. If it's not about winning then they shouldn't have a championship game or even keep score. The kid wasn't upset, so why are the self-righteous parents trying to live vicariously through him. If the parents are afraid of him failing then put him in a little league where they don't keep score and everyone lobs it underhand to all the batters so nobody gets offended.

    And I'm not sure why it was mentioned earlier in the thread, but I was on multiple terrible baseball teams when I was growing up. A 3-15 team when I was 9 and a 1-19 team when I was 12. Both of them sucked...a lot. But never once did I want the other teams to let up on us just because our team was terrible. Hell I was so damn happy when I pitched us to our only win that 12 year old year.


    And I think what it getting lost in all of this is the stupidity of the losing coach. None of this would have happened if he didn't bat his worst hitter after his best one. Not sure where he thought that was a good idea.
    You know what your exactly right.
    In fact now looking at the situation with the runner at third why risk throwing 4 pitches to the plate when a passed ball will score a run. Just have your 9 year old drill the batter with the first pitch because the runner can't advance on a dead ball. Less chance for error that way and whats a possible injury in comparison to etarnal glory in the pantheon of 9-10 little league champions.


    BRILLIANT!!!

  16. #66
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    "This isn't the Special Olympics. He's not retarded"
    A remark coming straight from human garbage. It may not be the Special Olympics but there be some "retards" around these parts.
    Last edited by Hammerin Hank; 08-09-2006 at 09:56 PM.
    Still lurks the BBF.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elvis
    If that's what was truly said within earshot of the boy than that's beyond disgusting--it's vile beyond comprehension. These are 9-year old kids!

    Actually we have no idea what he said the link article was not a direct quote. At best he yelled to his pitcher from either the first base coaches spot or the dugout area to walk the next batter. I seriously doubt he went into a long explanation like it is printed in the article. Reminds me of the allstate insurance radio comercial in which the coach is screaming to the runner on first to steal second base but not to tell anyone or they might they throw them out. The writer is in all probability embelishing or adding his own view to aid in completing the picture he wants you to see.

    The second article linked gives a little more info, but again a lot is missing. I'm willing to bet Mr. Reilly borrowed heavily from this article. Either that or both borrowed from another article. A lot of it seem to have similar style. Personally I would like to know how Romney was used, what he did before in the game and in the season. These guys are painting a picture and in that Romney is the poor victim and that is all he is. The coaches are villains and that is all they are. In reality they are all human beings and their is more to Romney then being a poor helpless victim. Which is the role these people want him to play.

  18. #68
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    I want to thank all the self absorbed, morality challenged individuals for teaching me a valuable lesson in this thread

    Taking your advice, I went out and pushed a 5 year old off his tricycle to show him that when you are bigger then someone else you can take what you want

    Then I went to the Boys club and dunked on some 11 year olds and when they cried I told them to shut their cakeholes, everyone loses and fails

    I then went to Shriner's hospital and told the kids with leukemia to 'suck it up' No one gets something for nothing and to get out get a paper route so they would stop sponging off my taxes

    Then when I came back home, my son showed me a picture he made...it was horrible, so I crumpled it up, threw it out and fired him

    Yes I fired my son, because like you said, he should learn how to deal with shotty work not being accepted in the real world

    I think I molded some young minds today, and its all thanks to you guys

    (sarcasm...another American trait that is deemed perfectly fine in todays society)

  19. #69
    Winning at all costs is destructive thinking. That breeds the thinking that one should sacrifice everything, honor, family, whatever, to win. That's sickening. That's why NCAA athletes are not true "scholar-athletes" but in fact just professionals who are not getting paid but are exploited for the schools' benefit.

    The problem is that from the very young age, start of organized sports, parents and coaches make athletics more important than other aspects of life and give them elite status; thereby engraining in the exceptional athlete a warped sense of entitlement. Read Our Guys by Bernard Lefkowitz about how some "star" football players raped a mentally retarded girl.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imapotato
    I want to thank all the self absorbed, morality challenged individuals for teaching me a valuable lesson in this thread

    Taking your advice, I went out and pushed a 5 year old off his tricycle to show him that when you are bigger then someone else you can take what you want

    Then I went to the Boys club and dunked on some 11 year olds and when they cried I told them to shut their cakeholes, everyone loses and fails

    I then went to Shriner's hospital and told the kids with leukemia to 'suck it up' No one gets something for nothing and to get out get a paper route so they would stop sponging off my taxes

    Then when I came back home, my son showed me a picture he made...it was horrible, so I crumpled it up, threw it out and fired him

    Yes I fired my son, because like you said, he should learn how to deal with shotty work not being accepted in the real world

    I think I molded some young minds today, and its all thanks to you guys

    (sarcasm...another American trait that is deemed perfectly fine in todays society)
    Ahh nothing like taking it to its most illogical extreme.

  21. #71
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    Deleted per request.
    Last edited by Hammerin Hank; 08-09-2006 at 09:55 PM.
    Still lurks the BBF.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by willie24fan
    Winning at all costs is destructive thinking. That breeds the thinking that one should sacrifice everything, honor, family, whatever, to win. That's sickening. That's why NCAA athletes are not true "scholar-athletes" but in fact just professionals who are not getting paid but are exploited for the schools' benefit.
    So how is this winning at all costs. They walked one batter in the championship game. They were winning. Did they cheat. Were they using steroids? Did they fix games in the regular season? The coach made a decision, it wasn't a nice decision, it wasn't a pleasant decision but it wasn't win at all costs.

    The problem is that from the very young age, start of organized sports, parents and coaches make athletics more important than other aspects of life and give them elite status; thereby ingraining in the exceptional athlete a warped sense of entitlement. Read Our Guys by Bernard Lefkowitz about how some "star" football players raped a mentally retarded girl.
    Criminal behavior is not exclusive to sports players nor is the ingraining of special entitlement exclusive to athletes. There is nothing anyone can say or teach a kid that will make him think he can rape a woman. that is something inside that individual who commits that heinous act. It wasn't the sport that causes someone to rape a mentally retarded girl.

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
    So how is this winning at all costs. They walked one batter in the championship game. They were winning. Did they cheat. Were they using steroids? Did they fix games in the regular season? The coach made a decision, it wasn't a nice decision, it wasn't a pleasant decision but it wasn't win at all costs.



    Criminal behavior is not exclusive to sports players nor is the ingraining of special entitlement exclusive to athletes. There is nothing anyone can say or teach a kid that will make him think he can rape a woman. that is something inside that individual who commits that heinous act. It wasn't the sport that causes someone to rape a mentally retarded girl.
    The sport does not cause rape, its the special entitlement that is granted to athletes (among others, yes).

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by willie24fan
    The sport does not cause rape, its the special entitlement that is granted to athletes (among others, yes).

    I haven't read the book, but what special entitlement makes somebody think they can rape a mentally retarded girl? Or even a normal girl?

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
    Actually we have no idea what he said the link article was not a direct quote. At best he yelled to his pitcher from either the first base coaches spot or the dugout area to walk the next batter. I seriously doubt he went into a long explanation like it is printed in the article. Reminds me of the allstate insurance radio comercial in which the coach is screaming to the runner on first to steal second base but not to tell anyone or they might they throw them out. The writer is in all probability embelishing or adding his own view to aid in completing the picture he wants you to see.

    The second article linked gives a little more info, but again a lot is missing. I'm willing to bet Mr. Reilly borrowed heavily from this article. Either that or both borrowed from another article. A lot of it seem to have similar style. Personally I would like to know how Romney was used, what he did before in the game and in the season. These guys are painting a picture and in that Romney is the poor victim and that is all he is. The coaches are villains and that is all they are. In reality they are all human beings and their is more to Romney then being a poor helpless victim. Which is the role these people want him to play.
    Well of course there is more to this than Romney just being a helpless victim. If a kid like him can give cancer the boot then a couple of coaches with inferiority complexes should be no sweat.

    The point is he shouldn't have had to deal with this because at this level of athletics the Intential walk was a bush league tactic. Not only that but one of the coaches had coached Romney on his baskettball team so there is no doubt he was fully aware of his condition, and yet lies about it saying he didn't know the boys medical history. If you can coach a impared sickly child and then turn around and use that knowladge agisnt him you really are a scumbag with no compassion at all.

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