A Pettitte return?

[tripledup22]

this offseason andy pettite will become a free agent. will the yankees pick him up? i hope they do but i dont think andy will come back to the yankees.

[soberdennis]

this offseason andy pettite will become a free agent. will the yankees pick him up? i hope they do but i dont think andy will come back to the yankees.

IMO he never should have left.

[ssbguyincognito]

No way. Pettite has a history of elbow trouble, which was largely a reason he didnt resign. Also, he can't handle the NL. Look no further than Josh Beckett to see how much tougher the AL is than the NL.

Pettite on the year: 4.56 era, 1.48 whip, 293 baa

Also, he's 34, on the tail end of his career.

Now an ex-Yankee I wouldn't mind back is Nick Johnson...

[Mattingly]

I think that things were a bit tense back then, so I don't see him returning. He'd lived in some rented house in Westchester County, NY, a suburban county just north of the Bronx. He's got family in Deer Park, TX, and his father-in-law is a minister there (or thereabouts).

After Cashman encouraged him to file for free agency, this after Pettitte's rebuffed offer to extend his contract a year before he'd become an FA, I don't see their being any good feelings. There was something long, drawn-out story about how his wife had encouraged him to leave the Yanks. Either case, it was them, rather than us, that got the "hometown discount".

In the end, Andy said that Cashman would need to offer him a deal similar to what the Angels paid Bartolo Colon, which was $52m/4 yrs. He must've felt not only slighted, but also disrespected and taken for granted. This following his having a banner year/walk year, winning those "must win" games when the Yanks were down, both in the regulars and in October.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/player...?playerId=3171

Of the 3 years that Houston paid for, they only got their money's worth in 2005, I believe. His 2.39 ERA over 33 starts and 222.1 IP bested even his 1997 season of 2.88 ERA over 35 starts and 240.1 IP.

Right now, the big southpaw has 30 starts, but he's at a 4.56 ERA. Better than Unit, but with the emotions the way they were following his departure, I don't see him returning. I believe that his stock was much higher right after he'd left, went south in 2004 (only 15 starts), those rose sharply in 2005. Right now, I don't think it would be worth the risk.

He's had very good and sometimes not very good playoff games for us. I'd just rather leave this in the past.

[farmsystem]

I was also thinking about Pettitte being a FA after this season. I'm kind of on the fence about him coming back since he is older and has had some elbow problems. Last thing the Yankees need is another injury prone pitcher. If you can tell me that Andy will be healthy for at least the next 3 seasons then I would welcome him back since I still believe he is still a good pitcher. I wonder if Boston will go after him and Clemens and how the Yankees might react to that. However, I really like the plethora of FA starting pitchers. I'm also on the fence with Mussinna even though he's been real good this season. I don't know what's wrong with Mulder but he's a guy that if healthy is still young and I believe is an excellent pitcher. He's having an awful season which at least will keep his price down.

[CoachZee]

The "rumor" when Pettitte left was that his wife caught him in NYC with his mistress and told him to come back home or else she was done with him.

If he comes back to NY he'll have to get his wife's permission.

[DoubleX]

Didn't the Yankees offer Pettitte more than he eventually took with the Astros?

[ssbguyincognito]

Yes, but at the last second. By then he had already agreed to sign with the Astros, although he hadn't signed anything yet. Also, I think he felt mistreated by the Yankees -- of all the core Yankees that won us four titles, Steinbrenner always felt the least for pettite.

[soberdennis]

Yes, but at the last second. By then he had already agreed to sign with the Astros, although he hadn't signed anything yet. Also, I think he felt mistreated by the Yankees -- of all the core Yankees that won us four titles, Steinbrenner always felt the least for pettite.

I have posted this on another thread but I will post it again.
During the 2001 playoffs, I made the comment that "Every year the Yanks seem to look for a new ace for their staff. But all Andy Petitte does is win."

[EvanAparra]

I believe they let him go at the right time. Spent time on the DL in 04. Stellar in 05. Bad in 06. He did not end up being worth the contract he signed.

[TonyStarks]

The actual reason that Andy left NY is because he was a Red-Headed step child here.

The Yankees did not make him feel like he was wanted or needed.
That's what it comes down to. Pettite felt like the Yankees weren't giving him his respect, or props.

They didn't even offer him a geniune contract, he felt...so he left for a team that he felt could appreciate him more.

I mean think about it, how many trade deadlines passed where Andy's name was mentioned? It wasn't just once, twice or even three times. It was multiple seasons of hearing Pettite's name come up in the rumor mills.
Some times it actually affected his play in a bad way...but other times he stepped his game up.

In the end, it was about Respect.

[Biggtone23]

I remember that was the off-season where George took over and Cashman had to just deal with it. Steinbrenner wanted Gary Sheffield and put all the effort into him. By the time Sheffield had signed it was too late. We had ignored Pettitte for about the first month of free agency so he took the deal in Houston instead of waiting until the New Year to resign.

[KCGHOST]

Tony, is right, the Yanks basically snubbed him when he became a free agent. Despite throwing money all over the place before and after that they elected to ignore a guy who had been a significant contributor to 5 WS championships.

He will be 35 next and that is usually a bad age to sign a guy to a 3-4 year contract.

[Mattingly]

Didn't the Yankees offer Pettitte more than he eventually took with the Astros?

I think the Yanks offered something like $33m over 3 years, but he'd accepted $31.5m over the same time period.

Tony, is right, the Yanks basically snubbed him when he became a free agent. Despite throwing money all over the place before and after that they elected to ignore a guy who had been a significant contributor to 5 WS championships.

He will be 35 next and that is usually a bad age to sign a guy to a 3-4 year contract.

4 rings actually.

Andy finally had a great playoff season in 2003. Despite losing the deciding Game 6, he was credited far more, unlike Wells who'd failed to show up for the 2nd inning in Game 5 of the same WS.

I still remember that in the 1998 ALCS, Andy was rocked by Cleveland, and in Game 6 of 2001, he was also rocked. He's definitely done good for us, but with so much focus upon October, I just don't think the Yanks' FO was sold upon his walk year/banner year thing. After his issues with elbow problems--which, along with shoulder issues are the very bane of pitchers--I'd say they wanted to cut their ties.

I still say that 2005 was the only good year of 3 that Houston got the 2003 version of Andy.

[TonyStarks]

All in all....

I think it was a good time for the Yanks to cut bait on Andy...although I don't exactly agree with how the Yanks did it.

They showed no loyalty to Pettite, a guy who's been thru it all with the Yanks and helped them win plenty of Rings. You'd think that the Yanks could have at least showed him some sort of respect.

[Mattingly]

All in all....

I think it was a good time for the Yanks to cut bait on Andy...although I don't exactly agree with how the Yanks did it.

They showed no loyalty to Pettite, a guy who's been thru it all with the Yanks and helped them win plenty of Rings. You'd think that the Yanks could have at least showed him some sort of respect.

They'd offered him a contract. However, during their exclusive period with him before he was eligible to file for free agency, they never negotiated too much with him. What would they have to do to be seen as "respecting" him by your standards?

Right now, with only 1 of 3 good years in the past 3 seasons, I don't see any need for him. I'd likely be more interested in Barry Zito, given that his price was reasonable. Billy Beane seemingly looked like a genius in letting both Hudson and Mulder go at those times, but keeping Zito. He must've known something that nobody else did about them.

For Pettitte, it was said by some Yankee fans during his non-extension that George more values other teams' FAs than his own, especially those that beat us. Had Josh Beckett been an FA after the 2003 season, George would've been all over him with contract in hand, I believe.

[Mariano_Rivera]

They'd offered him a contract. However, during their exclusive period with him before he was eligible to file for free agency, they never negotiated too much with him. What would they have to do to be seen as "respecting" him by your standards?

Right now, with only 1 of 3 good years in the past 3 seasons, I don't see any need for him. I'd likely be more interested in Barry Zito, given that his price was reasonable. Billy Beane seemingly looked like a genius in letting both Hudson and Mulder go at those times, but keeping Zito. He must've known something that nobody else did about them.

For Pettitte, it was said by some Yankee fans during his non-extension that George more values other teams' FAs than his own, especially those that beat us. Had Josh Beckett been an FA after the 2003 season, George would've been all over him with contract in hand, I believe.

Billy Beane is a genius. I think that he just couldn`t afford them though.

[Mattingly]

Billy Beane is a genius. I think that he just couldn`t afford them though.

Yes, he couldn't afford them. Why else would they have insisted that Giambi not have a no-trade clause before we'd gotten him? They had every intention of trading him if his performance went south.

For Tejada, they didn't even offer him arbitration. They let him walk, packed his bags and kicked him to the curb, only calling the dumpster to sweep him up.

With the trio of Hudson, Mulder & Zito, I think that Beane's true ingenuity is knowing which 1 of the 3 to keep.

Tim Hudson

Mark Mulder

Barry Zito

After having traded Hudson to the Braves in the NL East, Mulder to the Cards in the NL Central, he kept the one who has the better ERA. Mulder's 7+ ERA is what a mopup guy does, or at least a #5 pitcher who's likely to be thrown into the BP.

Give him credit for keeping a winning club afloat at a small budget. A season after he'd broken up his troika, his team is finally back in the playoffs. Less is more? Could be. Now if only they could get past the 1st round in October.

[Redfoot]

Didn't the Yankees offer Pettitte more than he eventually took with the Astros?

Yes, IIRC the Yankees offered him 3/$39.

As an Astros fan, I want him back next year. His elbow problems are behind him and he's been unlucky this season (FIP is 3.96, compared to his 4.56 ERA).

[Mattingly]

Yes, IIRC the Yankees offered him 3/$39.

As an Astros fan, I want him back next year. His elbow problems are behind him and he's been unlucky this season (FIP is 3.96, compared to his 4.56 ERA).

From what you've seen of him, has it mostly been bad luck, such as allowing a HR in his final inning? Or he left a few guys on base and the bullpen allowed those guys to score?

If you were to play the GM, would you give him a 2- or 3-year contract? Incentivized or all guaranteed? About how much would you think he's worth?

Also, how well do you think he'll do in the next few years?

[farmsystem]

If I were GM I would give him a 2yr/20mil contract with incentives. I don't even know how I came up with those figures. I think since teams are always looking for starting pitchers and Andy is still a good one relative to other FA pitchers, some team will overpay for him. The Texas Rangers might overpay for him. I would not mind him coming back and finishing his career with the Yankees if he can stay healthy and is effective. The last thing the Yankees need is another injury prone pitcher or a pitcher who can only go 5 innings.

[TonyStarks]

They'd offered him a contract. However, during their exclusive period with him before he was eligible to file for free agency, they never negotiated too much with him. What would they have to do to be seen as "respecting" him by your standards?

Right now, with only 1 of 3 good years in the past 3 seasons, I don't see any need for him. I'd likely be more interested in Barry Zito, given that his price was reasonable. Billy Beane seemingly looked like a genius in letting both Hudson and Mulder go at those times, but keeping Zito. He must've known something that nobody else did about them.

For Pettitte, it was said by some Yankee fans during his non-extension that George more values other teams' FAs than his own, especially those that beat us. Had Josh Beckett been an FA after the 2003 season, George would've been all over him with contract in hand, I believe.

Matty,

I'm not sure exactly what they could have done for him. But at least hold his number for awhile. I don't see them giving out Paulie's number to anyone...and Roger even asked for it and was denied.

I think seeing Alan Embree, Aaron Guiel, and anyone else who's recently had it, shows how much they appreciated what Andy did here.

[Redfoot]

From what you've seen of him, has it mostly been bad luck, such as allowing a HR in his final inning? Or he left a few guys on base and the bullpen allowed those guys to score?

If you were to play the GM, would you give him a 2- or 3-year contract? Incentivized or all guaranteed? About how much would you think he's worth?

Also, how well do you think he'll do in the next few years?

He's walked a lot more batters this year than he normally does, but the lousy defense behind him has led to him allowing many more hits than he should have. This is in stark contrast to last season when the Astros played outstanding defense behind him and made his ERA look a lot better than it should have been.

I think when neutralizing defense and adjusting for park he's a 3.50-3.60 pitcher in the NL and 3.90-4.00 pitcher in the AL. Combined with the fact that he eats a lot of innings, he's a valuable commodity. He had surgery in 2004 so the elbow problems are behind him. I'd offer him 2 years and an option.

[Dev518]

I would rather have Oswalt but he resigned with the Astros

[EvanAparra]

He's walked a lot more batters this year than he normally does, but the lousy defense behind him has led to him allowing many more hits than he should have. This is in stark contrast to last season when the Astros played outstanding defense behind him and made his ERA look a lot better than it should have been.

I think when neutralizing defense and adjusting for park he's a 3.50-3.60 pitcher in the NL and 3.90-4.00 pitcher in the AL. Combined with the fact that he eats a lot of innings, he's a valuable commodity. He had surgery in 2004 so the elbow problems are behind him. I'd offer him 2 years and an option.

Lousy defense?? Preston Wilson was pretty terrible in the field but other than that??

Everett is the best defensive player in the game, and Biggio has played good defense as well... Having these two guys behind you up the middle doesnt hurt your ERA.