Yankee Stadium [II] Construction

[mrow1927]

The outline of the outfield fence is what largely defines a ball park, the old version with the deeper CF and LCF made YS what it was, It was far from current dimensions. This is what has makes current and the new version of YS less than what it used to be. IE the playing field configuration.
While the new park and current try to give the "impression" of the older shapes they really fail miserably. The current stadium outline is still there but less noticeable inside. Monument park etc. is nice but it is the shape of the playing field that gave old YS its character and the newer versions but barely resemble the two older versions

I'm hearing conflicting statements that the dimensions are going to be the same as YS now. Then I'm hearing that they are to be determined. If it's the latter, maybe CF and LCF will be deeper (hopefully).

I did not like this stadium with a passion (understatement) but the more I'm looking at the artist renderings on Yankees.com, it's growing on me. I only know the renovated stadium and by looking at the pictures of the classic stadium, I like that one much better. I agree with you Cinco64, atleast they are trying to evoke the old stadium but there has to be an incredible amount of pressure to make sure they capture the essence of old YS. I'm glad I'm not in their shoes. Since they're replacing such a historical stadium, they have to go beyond their capabilities to make sure they get it right. Like if they replace Fenway or Wrigley. It has to be an incredible stadium. Either you love it or hate it. No in-between. Lets hope we love it.

[Elvis]

...atleast they are trying to evoke the old stadium but there has to be an incredible amount of pressure to make sure they capture the essence of old YS.

What is the "essence" of a stadium? Of Yankee Stadium? Is it in the cosmetics or the structure? HOK is banking on it being the cosmetics. There is nothing - let me repeat that - NOTHING structurally reminiscent of Yankee Stadium pre or post renovation. ALL the things they're counting on are cosmetics to remind people that this generic stadium is "yankee stadium".

I suppose if I slapped some Mustang taillights, door handles and grille on a Toyota, I could say, "Look it's a Mustang!", and some people would buy it.

Or maybe if I put a mole and blond wig on a skinny flat-chested girl I can get people to believe it's really Marylin Monroe. It's the shape that makes it Marylin, and the same it true for yankee stadium. They replaced yankee Stadium's iconic shape with the same generic shape used in all HOKs parks. Brilliant!

[mrow1927]

What is the "essence" of a stadium? Of Yankee Stadium? Is it in the cosmetics or the structure? HOK is banking on it being the cosmetics. There is nothing - let me repeat that - NOTHING structurally reminiscent of Yankee Stadium pre or post renovation. ALL the things they're counting on are cosmetics to remind people that this generic stadium is "yankee stadium".

I suppose if I slapped some Mustang taillights, door handles and grille on a Toyota, I could say, "Look it's a Mustang!", and some people would buy it.

Or maybe if I put a mole and blond wig on a skinny flat-chested girl I can get people to believe it's really Marylin Monroe. It's the shape that makes it Marylin, and the same it true for yankee stadium. They replaced yankee Stadium's iconic shape with the same generic shape used in all HOKs parks. Brilliant!

Yes I mean the structure. I wasn't old enough to see the classic YS and I know alot of people that wasn't even born of the time of CYS (Classic Yankee Stadium) but love the way it looked will like to see it even if it will it is a "generic stadium". A lot of people say that they ruined YS when they renovated it in the 70s but that is all I remember and know. This stadium. Even though on the outside its somewhat of a replica, the new YS will have the look that we (meaning people that weren't around for CYS) would like to see.

I know hok builds derivatives of one stadium because of their severe lack of talent, but their designing this so we just have to accept that fact. As I said before because of what YS means to the city, to use the phrase "they must hit this out the park" in the worse way. Their reputation if there is one could be riding on this stadium. If people hate it, Steinbrenner and HOK can become the biggest disapointments in baseball history. On the other hand if people love it, people will be singing their praises. This is a huge gamble replacing YS. A big hit or miss.

And yes, bringing back the facade to its original place is reminiscent of CYS because they took it off in the renovation years. I rather see the facade crowning the upper deck like the old one than having a cheap so called respecting the past imitation facade on the wall behind the bleachers. Atleast they got one aspect right on the stadium and just hope they do a good job at that. In my opinion.

[Knick9]

I would also add that those who own the Yankees and those hired to design the new park are very much aware that this new building will be under a very powerful microscope.....the world understands that Yankee Stadium is perhaps the most famous modern sporting area in the world, and they know that they have to do it right or they will face a tremendous backlash....I think the end result of all of this is that Yankee fans will end up with a fantastic park....40 years from now, fans will revere the "new" park the way fans of today revere the old.

You have your expectations way too high, sir. No chance of that happening, ever. This is the feeling I get sometimes, "Whatever HOK gives, people have to just accept it and call it good?" Absolutely bogus. I don't have to call it good if I really don't think it is. You know HOK has hit rock bottom if simple bums like me and others can easily come up with more inovative stuff than what HOK has pulled off. This is already a disapointment in my opinion. Whatever the case, Yankee Stadium II will not match Yankee stadium I. I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up being a bases loaded, full count strikeout, and not a homerun. I'm not saying that because I'm not Yankee fan. We have evidence throughout the country. Compare each and every HOK ballpark seating alignment/structure with each other. It doesn't look incredibly different, if at all.

[PeteU]

The thing is, Oriole Park at Camden Yards was and still is a great ballpark in my opinion, arguably in the top 5. And as an Orioles fan, I'm plenty proud that its my ballpark. In 1992, no one had ever seen anything like it, and people were righfully impressed. The only problem is HOK used the layout a little too much and we got clones of the original original. So what we've seen over the past decade and a half is a lack of creativity.

But this new Yankee Stadium isn't even that. From all the plans I've seen of the place, there isn't anything close which anyone would want to copy and imitate, a la OPACY. It is the most bland, souless, uninspired design I've seen in a long time, and that includes all the other HOK clones. Other than the outer shell which pays some homage to the old park, there is nothing about it that would make it a top tier ballpark that Yankees fans (*shudders*, sorry I'm an O's fan, can't help myself ) can be rightfully proud of.

[elmer]

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[cinco64]

You have your expectations way too high, sir. No chance of that happening, ever. This is the feeling I get sometimes, "Whatever HOK gives, people have to just accept it and call it good?" Absolutely bogus. I don't have to call it good if I really don't think it is. You know HOK has hit rock bottom if simple bums like me and others can easily come up with more inovative stuff than what HOK has pulled off. This is already a disapointment in my opinion. Whatever the case, Yankee Stadium II will not match Yankee stadium I. I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up being a bases loaded, full count strikeout, and not a homerun. I'm not saying that because I'm not Yankee fan. We have evidence throughout the country. Compare each and every HOK ballpark seating alignment/structure with each other. It doesn't look incredibly different, if at all.

Please don't misunderstand...I don't think my expectations are too high, nor do I think I have any illusions that the new park will be perfect, or even without major flaws. I just haven't drawn the same automatic conclusions that you seem to have: that the designers are not capable of designing a decent ballpark and its already a disappointment (even though its not built yet). And contrary to another post, I do think that so-called "cosmetic" improvements do make a big difference in how the ballpark will be received, especially if some of those iconic elements can help older fans to remember the "real" Yankee Stadium (ie: pre-1976). Don't get me wrong - I love the current Yankee Stadium, but a lot of the "cosmetic" elements that existed in the original ballpark that were removed during the 73-75 renovation really had a profound impact on the allure and character of the Stadium and have been truly missed by those who remember.

[nymdan]

Hey guys,

I've been lurking here for a few months and finally decided to reigster.

My question to you all is this: With all the complaints about the new stadium... what would you all do differently?

I don't see where they went wrong... the stadium looks like the old one inside and out and has all the modern amenities, which is what you would expect. In a perfect world they would be able to knock down the current stadium and build around the existing field like they did in the 70's renovation, but that's not realistic these days. So, short of doing that... what would you have included in your plans for a new Yankee Stadium?

[spiderico]

In my mind, the one thing that makes Yankee Stadium really Yankee Stadium is the 3 distinct decks. I wasn't around for the original, but have been going to the current since the early 80's and have had season tickets for the past 12 years. Even with the renovations, the one thing that remained constant is the how the upper deck overhangs the lower deck, with the middle deck sandwiched in between. Unless you go to a lot of games there this isn't something that you can appreciate. You're right on top of the field. During a big game, I really feel it has an affect on the game. Plus it makes for great sight lines.

I know all about the need for suites, and no one wants to cover the box seats, but there is nothing unique about the inside of the new stadium. From what I've seen it could be any number of new stadiums build over the last 10 years.

I can live with a new stadium, but since money is never an issue, why not design and build something special and unique. The outside remotely resembles the old stadium. But from what I've seen, the inside is a disgrace.

[Elvis]

Hey guys,

I've been lurking here for a few months and finally decided to reigster.

My question to you all is this: With all the complaints about the new stadium... what would you all do differently?

I don't see where they went wrong... the stadium looks like the old one inside and out and has all the modern amenities, which is what you would expect. In a perfect world they would be able to knock down the current stadium and build around the existing field like they did in the 70's renovation, but that's not realistic these days. So, short of doing that... what would you have included in your plans for a new Yankee Stadium?

Why would you think it resembles the old stadium inside? It's completely different. As far as what we would do different, if Richard would post his design, you'd see what we mean.

[nymdan]

Why would you think it resembles the old stadium inside? It's completely different. As far as what we would do different, if Richard would post his design, you'd see what we mean.

I'm not sure if you're saying it doesn't look like the pre-renovation stadium or doesn't look like Yankee Stadium period, but my point is if you stepped foot in that stadium or looked at a picture, you know right away it's Yankee Stadium, because it looks like Yankee Stadium. That's why I don't understand these comments that it looks the same as the other HOK parks... if you look at a picture of it, there's no way you would confuse it with Great American or CBP.

And... has this Richard posted his design in another thread?

spiderico, as far as the overhang goes... you're right that it would have been nice to keep that, though the Tier now does have its flaws... there are certain seats in the corners where you can't see the entire playing field... if there is a ball hit to the wall by the foul pole, you can't see it at all. I had that problem sitting in these seats:



Ironically, though, while Yankee Stadium will be missing the overhang, Citi Field will actually have an upper deck in right field that hangs out a few feet over the playing field.

[wickedcurve093]

I'm guessing Yankees are still in the Bronx after the next stadium is built. Hmmmm. Okey Dokey.

[elmer]

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[spiderico]

That's why I don't understand these comments that it looks the same as the other HOK parks... if you look at a picture of it, there's no way you would confuse it with Great American or CBP.

This is what I mean:
http://www.baseball-fever.com/showpo...4&postcount=57

And if you look at the profile of the new Yankee Stadium vs a lot of the new places, you'll see a lot of similarities:
http://www.baseball-fever.com/showpo...3&postcount=71

spiderico, as far as the overhang goes... you're right that it would have been nice to keep that, though the Tier now does have its flaws... there are certain seats in the corners where you can't see the entire playing field... if there is a ball hit to the wall by the foul pole, you can't see it at all. I had that problem sitting in these seats

You're right about the blind spots, but for what its worth, missing part of a play or two is worth it to be right on top of the action. I'm not a designer, but I'm sure they can still make a decent overhang and fix the blind spot problem in the new place if they wanted to. Its all about the suites.

[Elvis]

I'm not sure if you're saying it doesn't look like the pre-renovation stadium or doesn't look like Yankee Stadium period, but my point is if you stepped foot in that stadium or looked at a picture, you know right away it's Yankee Stadium, because it looks like Yankee Stadium.

The shape of the grandstand is not anywhere near the Yankee Stadium shape; the seating deck design is not anywhere near the Yankee Stadium design; the bleachers are not anywhere near the Yankee Stadium design. The only thing like Yankee Stadium is a few cosmetic touches here and there, however, the building itself is not similar an any way to either pre or post renovation Yankee Stadium. If they slapped the Yankee Stadium facade on US Cellular Field, it would look as much like Yankee Stadium as theis new imposter will, possibly more so.

[nymdan]

Its all about the suites.

For what it's worth...

"Most current stadiums have over a hundred luxury box seats. The Yankees will only have sixty in their new park, which Levine said is because they want all the seats to be closer to the field."--Michael Morrisey, The Pride and the Pressure

[nymdan]

The shape of the grandstand is not anywhere near the Yankee Stadium shape; the seating deck design is not anywhere near the Yankee Stadium design; the bleachers are not anywhere near the Yankee Stadium design. The only thing like Yankee Stadium is a few cosmetic touches here and there, however, the building itself is not similar an any way to either pre or post renovation Yankee Stadium. If they slapped the Yankee Stadium facade on US Cellular Field, it would look as much like Yankee Stadium as theis new imposter will, possibly more so.

Well... you're right that the seating deck looks different (not having the unique Yankee stadium footprint), but you can probably chalk that up to superior sight lines... not having blind spots, etc.

As far as the bleachers go... the only reason they are how they currently are rather than being directly behind the wall like the new stadium and Comiskey is because of the old dimensions. And again in that case, they decided to move the seats closer to the field rather than using the existing design where they're further back.

[RichardLillard1]

I think he was referring to the general shape of the outfield bleachers and wall. They could have done something like what's there now. It could have been drawn up close to the wall but still had that general shape to give it more of a "homey touch". Instead we got these rounded off ones that too many other HOK ballyards have nowadays.



Richard

[PeteU]

So, short of doing that... what would you have included in your plans for a new Yankee Stadium?

I would have put individual light standards as opposed to the ones that ring around the roof (as in both the renovated stadium and the new stadium).

The new stadium is going to bring back the distinctive freize trimming the roof, yes, but it also sticks the lights right above the freize, so you really can't enjoy it because of the glare of the lights. Kinda kills the point of the whole thing, don't you think?

[spiderico]

For what it's worth...

"Most current stadiums have over a hundred luxury box seats. The Yankees will only have sixty in their new park, which Levine said is because they want all the seats to be closer to the field."--Michael Morrisey, The Pride and the Pressure

Regardless of what Randy Levine says, the new stadium's upper deck will be significantly further back than the current:

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showpo...28&postcount=9

The new stadium may have fewer suites than other stadiums, but they are going to treat the entire lower bowl and club level as "super premium" seating, as opposed to most clubs that only set aside small sections or the first few rows for this. I'll bet you can't get a ticket less for than $100 anywhere in the lower deck. Why do you think they are so proud of the fact that the new stadium will have more lower seats then upper seats?

[Elvis]

Regardless of what Randy Levine says, the new stadium's upper deck will be significantly further back than the current:

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showpo...28&postcount=9

The new stadium may have fewer suites than other stadiums, but they are going to treat the entire lower bowl and club level as "super premium" seating, as opposed to most clubs that only set aside small sections or the first few rows for this. I'll bet you can't get a ticket less for than $100 anywhere in the lower deck. Why do you think they are so proud of the fact that the new stadium will have more lower seats then upper seats?

Exactly. And thanks for using my diagram. Levine must think people are idiots.

[nymdan]

A few aerial construction shots from WCBS 880 via Stadium Page

[RichardLillard1]

Great shots, those really show the gigantic size of this new ballyard. Its frightening to think that this huge new stadium will have a capacity of almost 9,000 less people.

Yankee Stadium has always been looked at as a pretty big staidum but it will be dwarfed by this new monster next door.

[Elvis]

Great shots, those really show the gigantic size of this new ballyard. Its frightening to think that this huge new stadium will have a capacity of almost 9,000 less people.,

Yankee Stadium has always been looked at as a pretty big staidum but it will be dwarfed by this new monster next door.

And of course that new footprint you see pretty much represents the distance the new upper deck will be from the field, compared to the intimate sight lines of the REAL Yankee Stadium. Ah, progress.

[Knick9]

Regardless of what Randy Levine says, the new stadium's upper deck will be significantly further back than the current:

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showpo...28&postcount=9

I am hoping people will acknowledge the link. The picture is pretty telling about what level HOK is going to take architecture, it will have a negative impact even though it may not look that way now.

Teams are willing to scarifice upper deck seating for extra space for suites and more corporate space. That's not good no matter what the case. The fact that 1 billion dollars is being spent for this ballpark will be a huge waste of money if unsuccessful. The same goes for CitiField with the Mets, 800 million is almost the same amount, and yet they still go for the same tired HOK seating formation and intentionally (yes, intentionally, there are other options out there) rule out any other company is also telling.

I hope I don't have to say this too much, but further back isn't better, why do you think people love the ballparks of the past? One of the reasons is because of the excellent views they present. Look, I'm not going to sit 100 miles (it seems) behind the playing field just so I can barely see the infielders. That is not progress, that's regressing. HOK should get a clue.

I suggest you read this article on Yahoo! News.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070331/...o_nyc_stadiums

"The rest of the country's now going to be looking at New York and saying 'Wow, look at what they did.'"

Nope, I don't see it like that.