Trade Chipper to the AL?

[41-44-VB]

What do you guys think of trading Chipper to an American League team? He can DH which will prolong his career (although the oblique hurts when he swings). Could we get enough for him because of his injuries? Keep in mind, that Chipper has been my favorite Brave (next to my all time hero Hank Aaron), and I would like to see him stay in a Braves uniform. But, would a trade be the best move for him and ultimately the team? Just want your opinions, guys. Thanks

[cbenson5]

My initial knee jerk reaction is to say NO! That is part selfishness as Chipper is also my favorite active player. First of all I will say that Chipper is a ten/five player and can reject any trade. He is signed through 2008 for 11 million dollars a year with an option for 2009 inbetween 8 and 11 million depending on performance.

I am not extremely concerned with his oblique injuries. I think that was a one time deal, which Chipper made worse by trying to play through the injury. I am mainly concerned with his foot injuries. Hopefully Chipper will get some helpful answers from various specialists and will find a way to avoid problems next year. In any case, he only missed a handful of games with foot injuries this year. His main injury problem was the oblique, which has never happened to Chipper before, and a freak occurence in San Francisco that sprained his knee. Considering how well he has played this year, who is to say that his best year might not be next year.

That being said, if there was a DH in the national league, I would advocated putting Chipper at DH at least for the most part. As far as career statistics go moving to an American League team and becoming a DH could benefit Chipper. I think trading Chipper would hurt the Braves more than Chipper. He is the only true number three hitter we have on the team. He makes Renteria and Andruw much better hitters just by being in the lineup. Eleven million is not too much money in today's market and would actually be an excellent deal if Chipper stays healthy. I think we should definitely keep Chipper next year and hope he can play 140+ games. If he does that our lineup will be one of the best in the game.

[moebarguy]

Couldn't hurt to see his market value. Probably with his recent string of injuries and big contract, he'll be hard to trade...

[AznInvasion]

Seeing him in any other uni is wrong and should not be brought up. That's like trading Ernie Banks or something! You just don't do it. I think Andruw's chances of leaving are far greater than Chipper's.

[SamtheBravesFan]

Good for him, bad for us. Who would we get for a potential injury risk? No one REALLY good, that's for sure.

[Atlanta Braves Freak]

My initial knee jerk reaction is to say NO! That is part selfishness as Chipper is also my favorite active player. First of all I will say that Chipper is a ten/five player and can reject any trade. He is signed through 2008 for 11 million dollars a year with an option for 2009 inbetween 8 and 11 million depending on performance.

I am not extremely concerned with his oblique injuries. I think that was a one time deal, which Chipper made worse by trying to play through the injury. I am mainly concerned with his foot injuries. Hopefully Chipper will get some helpful answers from various specialists and will find a way to avoid problems next year. In any case, he only missed a handful of games with foot injuries this year. His main injury problem was the oblique, which has never happened to Chipper before, and a freak occurence in San Francisco that sprained his knee. Considering how well he has played this year, who is to say that his best year might not be next year.

That being said, if there was a DH in the national league, I would advocated putting Chipper at DH at least for the most part. As far as career statistics go moving to an American League team and becoming a DH could benefit Chipper. I think trading Chipper would hurt the Braves more than Chipper. He is the only true number three hitter we have on the team. He makes Renteria and Andruw much better hitters just by being in the lineup. Eleven million is not too much money in today's market and would actually be an excellent deal if Chipper stays healthy. I think we should definitely keep Chipper next year and hope he can play 140+ games. If he does that our lineup will be one of the best in the game.

When you first think about trading Chipper you think that it'll be a good move because you'll get rid of the contract and injury risk, but as cbenson stated, he makes Renteria and Andruw better. We may not notice it, but having Renteria, Chipper, and Andruw, 2-3-4, is a scary sight to see. So I'm against trading him to the AL.

[ATL22]

Chipper is a 10-5 guy who can refuse any trade and there are just a few places he'd probably agree to go. Even so, the Braves wouldn't trade him because they couldn't likely get good value for him. Nobody is going to take the risk on his contract to get him for just 105 games. When healthy, Chipper is still an elite hitter plus he showed the Braves some loyalty by agreeing to restructure his contract to free up money to help the team. After doing that, I dont think the team would turn around and try to trade him unless someone blew them away and Chipper was agreeable to the idea.

A more interesting idea I've seen discussed elsewhere is if the Yankees don't win the World Series this year, what if they put A-Rod on the trading block? He's been intensely scrutinized lately in NY so the idea of cutting ties with him is not at all far-fetched. The Braves were the runner-up to sign him when he was a free agent, and with Texas already paying part of his salary as a result of the trade to the Yankees, if the Yankees would eat a little more of his salary, the Braves could afford A-Rod at somewhere around $12 - $14 million a year. We have trading pieces the Yankees would be interested in and a big salary to send them to offset A-Rod in Tim Hudson or Andruw Jones. Interesting idea!

[maximum jack]

Chipper is a 10-5 guy who can refuse any trade and there are just a few places he'd probably agree to go. Even so, the Braves wouldn't trade him because they couldn't likely get good value for him. Nobody is going to take the risk on his contract to get him for just 105 games. When healthy, Chipper is still an elite hitter plus he showed the Braves some loyalty by agreeing to restructure his contract to free up money to help the team. After doing that, I dont think the team would turn around and try to trade him unless someone blew them away and Chipper was agreeable to the idea.

Also, wasn't Chipper the guy who adamantly opposed being traded even when it was clear the Braves were not going to the Post Season? He is as much the face of the Braves as Jeter is the face of the Yankees.

[cbenson5]

Also, wasn't Chipper the guy who adamantly opposed being traded even when it was clear the Braves were not going to the Post Season? He is as much the face of the Braves as Jeter is the face of the Yankees.

Chipper is the face of the Braves and the primary drawing card. He has said multiple times that he wants to play his entire career with the Braves. I personally don't think it would benefit the team as I am looking forward to another big year from Chipper next year. In any event I don't like trading away Hall of Fame players especially when said player has spent his entire career with the Braves.

[ATL22]

In any event I don't like trading away Hall of Fame players especially when said player has spent his entire career with the Braves.

Perhaps this is fodder for another thread but is Chipper a Hall of Famer? I dont know at this point. I think he needs at least one more MVP caliber season where he stays healthy all year. If he stays healthy, I think he surely can make it, but if he never gets in more than just around 100 games the rest of his career I'm not sure.

In any event, I hope to see Smoltz, Chipper, and Andruw all retire having spent their entire careers as Braves. That's why I just wouldn't trade any of them unless some team blew us away with an offer we'd be foolish to refuse. Plus I think Chipper is a big positive influence on the young position players on the team. He is to those guys what Smoltz is to the pitchers and that is one of those things fans dont see much but it would leave a void if it were taken away.

[maximum jack]

Perhaps this is fodder for another thread but is Chipper a Hall of Famer? I dont know at this point. I think he needs at least one more MVP caliber season where he stays healthy all year. If he stays healthy, I think he surely can make it, but if he never gets in more than just around 100 games the rest of his career I'm not sure.

I think Chipper was well on his way to a first ballot selection in 2003, but his health has been a real issue since the 2004 season. Let's suppose he has 5 years left at the this year's numbers. That would put him at about 2600 hits, 1600 RBI and 475 HR. Good but not great, especially considering he's playing in the Steroid Era. He's got a chance, but he definately needs to buck the trend of the last three years.

[TheKingofKings]

Since they might unload Lowell in the Offseason , they could be interested in Chipper , they could offer Matt Clement and a minor leaguer for Chipper .

[maximum jack]

Since they might unload Lowell in the Offseason , they could be interested in Chipper , they could offer Matt Clement and a minor leaguer for Chipper .

If Chipper could play 3rd again and give Boston 150 games, I'd be all for it. I don't know that anyone is going to want to touch Matt Clement until he can prove that he's an effective pitcher again. Mentally, I don't think he has ever recovered from that awful line drive. Physically, he may even be worse off: they're not even sure if he will be able to pitch in 2007.

[cbenson5]

I think Chipper was well on his way to a first ballot selection in 2003, but his health has been a real issue since the 2004 season. Let's suppose he has 5 years left at the this year's numbers. That would put him at about 2600 hits, 1600 RBI and 475 HR. Good but not great, especially considering he's playing in the Steroid Era. He's got a chance, but he definately needs to buck the trend of the last three years.

Here is some information on how Chipper ranks among third baseman in the Hall of Fame. It is as of 14 Audust 2006. I haven't gotten around to updating it yet. When looking at career numbers you have to remember that Chipper walks extremely often and rarely gets pitches to hit with runners in scoring position. I mean during his MVP season he walked 126 times. Basically what I am trying to say is that if Chipper gets to 2600 hits he will likely have walked 1500+ times by then. For example Chipper "only" has 1944 hits compared to 2150 by Derek Jeter. But he has walked 1070 times compared to 705 to Derek Jeter. So Derek has about 200 more hits than Chipper, but Chipper has over 350 more walks than Jeter.

This is how Chipper Jones stacks up against the ten third baseman in the Hall of Fame (Major League Players Only):

Games:

1. Brooks Robinson 2896
2. George Brett- 2707
3. Wade Boggs- 2440
4. Mike Schmidt- 2404
5. Eddie Mathews- 2391
6. Pie Traynor- 1941
7. George Kell- 1795
8. Chipper Jones- 1733
9. Jimmy Collins- 1725
10. Frank Baker- 1575
11. Freddy Lindstrom- 1438

At Bats:

1. Brooks Robinson- 10654
2. George Brett- 10349
3. Wade Boggs- 9180
4. Eddie Mathews- 8537
5. Mike Schmidt- 8352
6. Pie Traynor- 7559
7. Jimmy Collins- 6795
8. George Kell- 6702
9. Chipper Jones- 6285
10. Frank Baker- 5984
11. Freddy Lindstrom- 5611

Runs:

1. George Brett- 1538
2. Wade Boggs- 1513
3. Eddie Mathews- 1509
4. Mike Schmidt- 1506
5. Brooks Robinson- 1232
6. Pie Traynor- 1183
7. Chipper Jones- 1165
8. Jimmy Collins- 1055
9. Freddy Lindstrom- 895
10. Frank Baker- 887
11.George Kell- 881

Hits:

1. George Brett- 3154
2. Wade Boggs- 1513
3. Brooks Robinson- 2848
4. Pie Traynor- 2416
5. Eddie Mathews- 2315
6. Mike Schmidt- 2234
7. George Kell- 2054
8. Jimmy Collins- 1999
9. Chipper Jones- 1914
10. Frank Baker- 1838
11. Freddy Lindstrom- 1747

Doubles:

1. George Brett- 665
2. Wade Boggs- 578
3. Brooks Robinson- 482
4. Mike Schmidt- 408
5. George Kell- 385
6. Chipper Jones- 377
7. Pie Traynor- 371
8. Eddie Mathews- 354
9. Jimmy Collins- 352
10. Frank Baker- 315
11. Freddy Lindstrom- 301

Home Runs:

1. Mike Schmidt- 548
2. Eddie Mathews- 512
3. Chipper Jones- 346
4. George Brett- 317
5. Brooks Robinson- 268
6. Wade Boggs- 118
7. Freddy Lindstrom- 103
8. Frank Baker- 96
9. George Kell- 78
10. Jimmy Collins- 65
11. Pie Traynor- 58

RBI:

1. Mike Schmidt- 1595
2. George Brett- 1595
3. Eddie Mathews- 1453
4. Brooks Robinson- 1357
5. Pie Traynor- 1273
6. Chipper Jones- 1171
7. Wade Boggs- 1014
8. Frank Baker- 987
9. Jimmy Collins- 983
10. George Kell- 870
11. Freddy Lindstrom- 779

Walks:

1. Mike Schmidt- 1507
2. Eddie Mathews- 1444
3. Wade Boggs- 1412
4. George Brett- 1096
5. Chipper Jones- 1058
6. Brooks Robinson- 860
7. George Kell- 621
8. Frank Baker- 473
9. Pie Trynor- 472
10. Jimmy Collins- 426
11. Freddy Lindstrom- 334

Stolen Bases:

1. Frank baker- 235
2. George Brett- 201
3. Jimmy Collins- 194
4. Mike Schmidt- 174
5. Pie Traynor- 158
6. Chipper Jones- 128
7. Freddy Lindstrom- 84
8. Eddie Mathews- 68
9. George Kell- 51
10. Brooks Robinson- 28
11. Wade Boggs- 24

Total Bases:

1. George brett- 5044
2. Mike Schmidt- 4404
3. Eddie Mathews- 4349
4. Brooks Robinson- 4270
5. Wade Boggs- 4064
6. Chipper Jones- 3387
7. Pie Traynor- 3289
8. Jimmy Collins- 2778
9. George Kell- 2773
10. Frank Baker- 2647
11. Freddy Lindstrom- 2519

On Base percentage:

1. Wade Boggs- .415
2. Chipper Jones- .402
3. Mike Schmidt- .380
4. Eddie Mathews- .377
5. George Brett- .369
6. George Kell- .362
7. Frank Baker- .355
8. Pie Traynor- .352
9. Freddy Lindstrom- .343
10. Jimmy Collins- .337
11. Brooks Robinson- .322


Slugging Percentage:

1. Chipper Jones .539
2. Mike Schmidt- .527
3. Eddie Mathews- .509
4. George Brett- .487
5. Freddy Lindstrom- .449
6. Wade Boggs- .443
7. Frank Baker- .442
8. Pie Traynor- .435
9. George Kell- .414
10. Jimmy Collins- .409
11. Brooks Robinson- .401

Batting Average:

1. Wade Boggs- .328
2. Pie Traynor- .320
3. Freddy Lindstrom- .311
4. Frank Baker- .307
5. George Kell- .306
6. George Brett- .305
7. Chipper Jones- .305
8. Jimmy Collins- .294
9. Eddie Mathews- .271
10. Brooks Robinson- .267
11. Mike Schmidt- .267

[SamtheBravesFan]

I remember that someone tried to downplay that list by saying that Chipper played in an "offensive-friendly" era. So... that means... that shouldn't count as much?

[maximum jack]

Those are great numbers. I still think he needs to finish strong, to be a first ballot HoF'er. Are those numbers soley for Third Base or for the entire career? I know Chipper has played about 300 games in the OF, but a lot of those guys didn't play third their whole career.

[cbenson5]

Those are great numbers. I still think he needs to finish strong, to be a first ballot HoF'er. Are those numbers soley for Third Base or for the entire career? I know Chipper has played about 300 games in the OF, but a lot of those guys didn't play third their whole career.

Those are career numbers (at all positions) for all of those players. I agree with you that Chipper needs to get his counting stats up for first ballot election. However, being first in career slugging percentage is quite impressive. His career OPS+ is 142 which is third behind Mathews (143) and Schmidt (147). If he gets to 1600 RBI and Runs scored then he will be first among players with third as their primary position. He also has a good chance at moving to first in walks and is already third in home runs. He can still play as his 2006 percentage numbers were above his career average. If he can stay healthy he will easily become a first ballot Hall of Famer and could very well get into the argument as one of the greatest third baseman of all time.

[-Kyle-]

I remember that someone tried to downplay that list by saying that Chipper played in an "offensive-friendly" era. So... that means... that shouldn't count as much?

Most people in the History forum try to put numbers in context. That means adjusting the numbers so they are fair. There is a lot of talk about context in the history forum, if you would want to check.

[EvanAparra]

But the park Chipper played in wasn't hitter friendly, so it evens out.

[SamtheBravesFan]

But the park Chipper played in wasn't hitter friendly, so it evens out.

It should. But I still don't understand that "perspective" argument. Are they trying to imply that Chipper is a worse third baseman than Home Run Baker or George Kell?

[KCGHOST]

His WARP3 of 85 is awfully low for someone as highly regarded as he is. Some of this is due to his lack of real defensive skills.

[cbenson5]

His WARP3 of 85 is awfully low for someone as highly regarded as he is. Some of this is due to his lack of real defensive skills.

What is Warp3?

[SamtheBravesFan]

His WARP3 of 85 is awfully low for someone as highly regarded as he is. Some of this is due to his lack of real defensive skills.

I don't dispute that at all. Chipper is regarded as high as he is because of his bat. Some players are like that, we all know it. His lack of defense shouldn't be held too much against him.

[bravediehard33]

sorry, but if you think that will happen, you need to get your head examined. Chipper Jones will never leave the Braves, and he has said that on multiple occasions.

[SamtheBravesFan]

sorry, but if you think that will happen, you need to get your head examined. Chipper Jones will never leave the Braves, and he has said that on multiple occasions.

I think we've established that now. We've moved on to trying to speculate how JS will convince Andruw Jones to waive his no-trade clause so that we can get something more for him than draft picks.