Left-Handed Catchers

[RuthMayBond]

I need some help RMB, your not comparing the rarity of games with a left handed throwing catcher with the absence of one inning closers way back in time, are you.

Go back and actually read what I said. The point was about that things sometimes change

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Go back and actually read what I said. The point was about that things sometimes change

OK, I did go back and I did actually read your post yesterday. I don't think thats a very good comparison, no LH throwing catchers compared to no one inning relief pitching and now we do see that the one inning releif pitching is here.

Did you read my post #50, I gave my reply, how they compare.

[RuthMayBond]

OK, I did go back and I did actually read your post yesterday. I don't think thats a very good comparison, no LH throwing catchers compared to no one inning relief pitching and now we do see that the one inning releif pitching is here.

Did you read my post #50, I gave my reply, how they compare.

Maybe the best explanation I've heard for no LH catchers.
If a lefty has a great arm, he's gonna be put on the OTHER end of the battery

[Imgran]

The only practical reason you wouldn't want an LH catcher would be because their throwing arm -- a catcher's bread and butter nearly as much as a pitcher's -- would be more exposed on a plate-blocking play, leading to a much increased risk of arm injuries. Beyond that I have a hard time believing any common play or incident would be beyond the skills of a properly talented LH C.

[Imgran]

Maybe the best explanation I've heard for no LH catchers.
If a lefty has a great arm, he's gonna be put on the OTHER end of the battery

There are some very good throwing LH OF's. Mekly Cabrera as one example of a position plater (outfielder) with a great lefthanded throwing arm. If that was the reason, especially Melky would probably be a pitcher, too.

Not to mention, not all LHH 1B's are noodle-arms either. I remember the throw David Ortiz made to nab Jeff Suppan in the 2004 World Series. Suppan should never have been that far off the bag, but that was still a very powerful throw by the big man.

Sometimes a guy would just rather hit. I'd hate to think that any of the great lefty 1Bmen of the era could have become proficient catchers and been that much more valuable given the chance.

[RuthMayBond]

There are some very good throwing LH RF's.

True, but maybe they don't have enough pinpoint control to pitch (or catch)

[Imgran]

True, but maybe they don't have enough pinpoint control to pitch (or catch)

If they can throw a ball from the right field corner or deep center, on target to the catcher on a play at the plate I have a hard time believing they wouldn't have the arm strength to hit the second baseman at half that distance or less. Issues like pop time, game-calling, receiving skills and accuracy might be a problem no more for a righty than a lefty.

It takes a peculiar mindset to pitch and a different one altogether to hit -- which is why a guy who can do both is so rare. I guess there are a lot of lefties who just wanna hit

That said, there's one other reason I can think of why we don't see a lot of lefthanded throwers. With 4 defensive positions clearly and indelibly marked For Righthanders Only, (2B, 3B, SS, C), including defensive position considered moderately difficult other than CF and possibly RF, there really is still a glass ceiling for lefty throwers. Very, very few lefties can make the majors as a starting position player on their gloves alone, compared to the Johnny Macs of the world who are allowed to play the infield -- or defense-only catching types like Brad Ausmus. And if you're a lefthander with great hands but not much range there really isn't a spot for you other than 1B, where you really do need to hurt the baseball.

You have to fit a very narrow skillset to be a lefty glove man with anything other than a very good bat -- basically, you have to be a CF with blazing speed a la Joey Gathright, or else kill the ball, while righthanded throwers have two more chances for playing time whether they hit or not, based on being be a defensive wizard infielder or a great defensive catcher. There is no equivalent there for lefties.

In other words, your ability to survive as a lefty thrower in high-level baseball is based far more on how well you hit than it is for a righty thrower since there are fewer opportunities for you and those that are there are "offensive positions.".

[SHOELESSJOE3]

The only practical reason you wouldn't want an LH catcher would be because their throwing arm -- a catcher's bread and butter nearly as much as a pitcher's -- would be more exposed on a plate-blocking play, leading to a much increased risk of arm injuries. Beyond that I have a hard time believing any common play or incident would be beyond the skills of a properly talented LH C.

I think we've seen some of the negatives posted here, the negative side of a left handed throwing catcher.

Call some practical, not a big deal, what ever, wouldn't we have seen more lefthanded throwing catchers if the throwing from the left side doesn't matter that much, where are they. In the last 55 years, lefthanded throwing catchers played in only 8 games.

[Imgran]

I think we've seen some of the negatives posted here, the negative side of a left handed throwing catcher.

Call some practical, not a big deal, what ever, wouldn't we have seen more lefthanded throwing catchers if the throwing from the left side doesn't matter that much, where are they. In the last 55 years, lefthanded throwing catchers played in only 8 games.

This creates circular logic of the first order -- it almost never happens because, well, because it almost never happens.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

This creates circular logic of the first order -- it almost never happens because, well, because it almost never happens.

Looks like we both see the situation differently. I say it never happens or so seldom ever happens is because it's more preferable to have the catcher be RH thrower. The games over 100 years old and it's still RH throwing catchers.

Only 5 games in the last 27 years with the LH thower and no games in the last 17 years.
The biggest reason, it's a postition where you would rather have the RH throwing catcher.
Lets forget about what we think, what about those on the field playing the game, setting the field. I go back to the bottom line, if more in the game thought a LH thrower could do as well as a RH thrower, why is there none.

[TonyK]

It is odd that glove manufacturers produce lots of youth first basemen's gloves for lefties and very few youth catcher's gloves or youth infielder's gloves for lefties. Lefties do have easier access to catchers gloves today than way back when in my day.

When you are only 9 years old and all you can wear is an outfielder's glove or a first baseman's glove then the message you learn is lefties can only play 5 positions on a team.

[Imgran]

The fact that a thing is not done, is no evidence at all that it cannot be done. Otherwise we'd all still be in caves drawing pictures on the wall with colored mud instead of sitting at computers.

The part that gets me about this is that every position that is considered moderately difficult with the sole exception of CF is reserved strictly for RHT's -- the top 4 positions on the defensive spectrum IIRC are C, SS, 2B, 3B in that order and they've managed to find reasons that an LHT can't play any of them. The result is that a lot of RHD's can skate through the highest levels of ball on their glove alone, but if you want to be a lefty thrower in baseball you'd better mash.

Can you say "Glass Ceiling?" Are we supposed to believe that LHT's cannot play any defensively challenging positions in baseball? That NO lefty can play up to a major league level at any of 2B, 3B, SS and C? That seems absurd on the face of it.

I know that baseball is by nature a counterclockwise game but you'd think LHT's would have an advantage in at least one or two potentially difficult defensive positions. The most they can claim is a couple advantages when playing first base, the least difficult defensive position on the field. Again, that seems absurd on the face of it. What? No lefty in the world can ever play at a major league-level in a prime defensive position in the sport of baseball? Really?

[SHOELESSJOE3]

The fact that a thing is not done, is no evidence at all that it cannot be done. Otherwise we'd all still be in caves drawing pictures on the wall with colored mud instead of sitting at computers.

The part that gets me about this is that every position that is considered moderately difficult with the sole exception of CF is reserved strictly for RHT's -- the top 4 positions on the defensive spectrum IIRC are C, SS, 2B, 3B in that order and they've managed to find reasons that an LHT can't play any of them. The result is that a lot of RHD's can skate through the highest levels of ball on their glove alone, but if you want to be a lefty thrower in baseball you'd better mash.

Can you say "Glass Ceiling?" Are we supposed to believe that LHT's cannot play any defensively challenging positions in baseball? That NO lefty can play up to a major league level at any of 2B, 3B, SS and C? That seems absurd on the face of it.

I know that baseball is by nature a counterclockwise game but you'd think LHT's would have an advantage in at least one or two potentially difficult defensive positions. The most they can claim is a couple advantages when playing first base, the least difficult defensive position on the field. Again, that seems absurd on the face of it. What? No lefty in the world can ever play at a major league-level in a prime defensive position in the sport of baseball? Really?

It's not that it cannot be done, there are no steady playing LH throwing catchers, second basemen, SS or third basemen simply because the positions are better suited and by a wide margin for RH throwers at those positions, it's plain to see. Only in rare plays would the LH be equal or better at those positions.

Think of the one of the more common plays in the infield, ground out. The left hander unless he goes to his left and say backhands a ball will be at a disadvantage on the throw to first base. Lets speak about the most common, routine ground out, the LH infielder has to turn his body to the left to get off the throw.
Imagine a bunt down the third baseline, what does a LH thowing 3B man have to do, scoop up the bunt and some how turn his body and then get enough on the ball to throw to first base, never happen, this one is easy.
How many great stops by RH third basemen to their right down the line do we see, then at times throws out the runner, could a LF thower get enough on the ball, thats after he has to turn his body to make the throw.

Catching and infielders except first basemen are better suited for RH throwers, thats the only reason, no one thinks it cannot be done.

1950-2007 there have been around 24 games played by LH throwers ar 2B-SS-3B.


First base and outfield shows no favoritism or partiality RH or LH throwers.

Here is the number of games played by RH and LH throwers from 1950 to 2007. The most by both throwers.

-----------------------RH-----------LH
First base-------------2413---------2239
Outfield---------------2813---------2843

Close and I can tell you I looked at the top 10 and it's about equal from 1 to 10.

I respect your opinion but your bucking the system, there are so little, almost no LH throwing catchers, 2B-SS-3B infielders, not because it cannot be done, there are just too many negatives.
I don't see it changing, not in my lifetime, there would have to be a drastic change in the layout of the infield, not likely, basically the same for the last 100+ years.



For some to say there are some rare plays where a LH infielder would have the edge over a RH thowing infielder is a weak argument, we have to base it on the routine plays, the one the infielder makes many more times.

[TonyK]

Hick Carpenter, Bill Greenwood, Roger Connor, Jimmy Hallinan, Jimmy Macullar, and Bill McClellan were lefties who each played in 2 or more seasons at 2B/SS/3B. Lefty Sam Trott even had the nerve to try and play both 2B and C in the same season. I wonder just how bad their fielding pcts. were compared with their peers?

[NotAboutEgo]

Looks like we both see the situation differently. I say it never happens or so seldom ever happens is because it's more preferable to have the catcher be RH thrower. The games over 100 years old and it's still RH throwing catchers.

Only 5 games in the last 27 years with the LH thower and no games in the last 17 years.
The biggest reason, it's a postition where you would rather have the RH throwing catcher.
Lets forget about what we think, what about those on the field playing the game, setting the field. I go back to the bottom line, if more in the game thought a LH thrower could do as well as a RH thrower, why is there none.

Jeez... we all know that MLB is NOT an organization full of long-standing traditions and prejudices... right?

How long did it take to allow an African-American umpire in MLB? How long did it take for MLB to have non-caucasian managers? How long did it take for African-Americans to be allowed to play in MLB without facing harassment? How long did it take for Latins and Asians to be able to play in MLB? How long will it take for a female umpire to be allowed in MLB?

How long will it take for the prejudices about who can play what positions to disappear?

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Jeez... we all know that MLB is NOT an organization full of long-standing traditions and prejudices... right?

How long did it take to allow an African-American umpire in MLB? How long did it take for MLB to have non-caucasian managers? How long did it take for African-Americans to be allowed to play in MLB without facing harassment? How long did it take for Latins and Asians to be able to play in MLB? How long will it take for a female umpire to be allowed in MLB?

How long will it take for the prejudices about who can play what positions to disappear?

I see nothing at all that even hints at prejudice regarding why there are no LH throwing second or third basemen and the same for SS position.

Did you read my post # 63. I fail to see how the obvious can be overlooked, the reasons why, nothing to do with predjudice. It's so plain to see why this is the case, too many negatives for LH throwers to play those positions.

Just one, a LH throwing third baseman fielding a bunt and then having to turn his body in order to make the throw to first base. Compare that to a RH thrower picking up the ball and side arming to first base.

Comparing integration to MLB using LH throwing infielders other than first basemen..................I don't get that one at all.

Take another look at my post, think it over.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Jeez... we all know that MLB is NOT an organization full of long-standing traditions and prejudices... right?

How long did it take to allow an African-American umpire in MLB? How long did it take for MLB to have non-caucasian managers? How long did it take for African-Americans to be allowed to play in MLB without facing harassment? How long did it take for Latins and Asians to be able to play in MLB? How long will it take for a female umpire to be allowed in MLB?

How long will it take for the prejudices about who can play what positions to disappear?

Left handed throwing second basemen, third basemen and shortstops, more reasons why there are none and only a half dozen or more games played by them in the last 50 seasons.

Ground ball to third has to turn his body some to get something on the throw to first and if he chooses to get a force at second he really has to turn his body.

Imagine the DP with the SS tossing the ball to a LH throwing second baseman, how would he ever cross the bag, pivot and get off a good throw to first base.

One could counter and say a LH throwing SS crossing the bag could get off the pivot and throw just as well as a RH thowing SS. True but what about all the routine ground balls, overall the RH throwing SS has it all over the LH throwing SS.

This is a game where we often see runners thrown out by a half step very close plays, imagine ground balls hit to infielders that throw LH losing even a fraction of a second turning or losing something on the throw because it's more difficult for him to get more on the throw.

I see no case for LH thowing infielders except for first basemen. I am willing to listen to the other side, thats what the board is all about.
This has nothing to do with predjudice.
Look at the layout of the field and the mechanics involved by infielders( first basemen excluded) on most routine plays, it's plain as day, lefty's just won't work.

[NotAboutEgo]

I see nothing at all that even hints at prejudice regarding why there are no LH throwing second or third basemen and the same for SS position.

Did you read my post # 63. I fail to see how the obvious can be overlooked, the reasons why, nothing to do with predjudice. It's so plain to see why this is the case, too many negatives for LH throwers to play those positions.

Just one, a LH throwing third baseman fielding a bunt and then having to turn his body in order to make the throw to first base. Compare that to a RH thrower picking up the ball and side arming to first base.

Comparing integration to MLB using LH throwing infielders other than first basemen..................I don't get that one at all.

Take another look at my post, think it over.

As I stated before, it may be a bit of an inconvenience for a LH fielder to play certain positions, but it's not impossible. It's not so impossible that most LH fielders should be told that they can't play certain positions.

I have a LH first baseman and a left handed 3rd baseman/SS on my team, and they are able to adjust just fine, even when turning DPs. They are 2 of the best fielders on the team. They find their way to do it. Also, one season, we had 3 LH catchers on the team, and they did fine with being LH. One of them won an MVP award. And that's in amateur baseball.

I think that if a guy is at the MLB level, they are good enough to be able to handle adjusting. Like I said, being a LH catcher is no more a challenge than a RH catcher covering a bunt and throwing to 1B. The angle is no different than a LH catcher covering a bunt and throwing to 3B, and throwing to 1B is a lot more common. Sure, being a LH catcher and most hitters being RH is a bit moree inconvenient than being a RH catcher, but it's not that big of a deal that an MLB catcher or even an amateur catcher who's a solid player wouldn't be able to handle it.

My comparison to integration in MLB is about how long it takes for MLB to change and for most people to grasp that change. It's not about the details of what's changing. It has more to do with people becoming comfortable with change involving a long-standing tradition or prejudice.

I still disagree that LH can't be some of the best catchers and fielders. It's about prejudice towards LH, IMO.

[NotAboutEgo]

Left handed throwing second basemen, third basemen and shortstops, more reasons why there are none and only a half dozen or more games played by them in the last 50 seasons.

Ground ball to third has to turn his body some to get something on the throw to first and if he chooses to get a force at second he really has to turn his body.

Imagine the DP with the SS tossing the ball to a LH throwing second baseman, how would he ever cross the bag, pivot and get off a good throw to first base.

One could counter and say a LH throwing SS crossing the bag could get off the pivot and throw just as well as a RH thowing SS. True but what about all the routine ground balls, overall the RH throwing SS has it all over the LH throwing SS.

This is a game where we often see runners thrown out by a half step very close plays, imagine ground balls hit to infielders that throw LH losing even a fraction of a second turning or losing something on the throw because it's more difficult for him to get more on the throw.

I see no case for LH thowing infielders except for first basemen. I am willing to listen to the other side, thats what the board is all about.
This has nothing to do with predjudice.
Look at the layout of the field and the mechanics involved by infielders( first basemen excluded) on most routine plays, it's plain as day, lefty's just won't work.

Like I said, it's a bit more inconvenient, but it's not impossible. If players can make the adjustment in amateur baseball, then they can make it in MLB more easily. Yes, the field layout and the play, for the most part, does favor RH fielders, but it doesn't make it impossible for LH fielders to be successful in those positions.

The prejudice part comes in when people/someone decided long ago that LH can't be successful in certain positions, so they started telling them where they have to play, and that became tradition.

[RuthMayBond]

I have a LH first baseman and a left handed 3rd baseman/SS on my team, and they are able to adjust just fine, even when turning DPs.

What does the SS/3B do if it's hit to their right? What does the 3B do on bunts?
I guess I'm in the middle. LH catcher (and obviously P & 1B) would work out fine but nothing else LH in the infield would, not at any advanced level.

[NotAboutEgo]

What does the SS/3B do if it's hit to their right? What does the 3B do on bunts?
I guess I'm in the middle. LH catcher (and obviously P & 1B) would work out fine but nothing else LH in the infield would, not at any advanced level.

They just adjust, much like the RH catcher does when a ball is bunted down the 3B line and they have to field the ball and then turn to throw to 1B. Why is that any different than a LH adjusting?

[RuthMayBond]

They just adjust, much like the RH catcher does when a ball is bunted down the 3B line and they have to field the ball and then turn to throw to 1B. Why is that any different than a LH adjusting?

It's a completely different and MUCH more severe form of adjusting, not in the same league. Catcher still throws in front of him, 3B is throwing basically in back (plus to the side) of him

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Like I said, it's a bit more inconvenient, but it's not impossible. If players can make the adjustment in amateur baseball, then they can make it in MLB more easily. Yes, the field layout and the play, for the most part, does favor RH fielders, but it doesn't make it impossible for LH fielders to be successful in those positions.

The prejudice part comes in when people/someone decided long ago that LH can't be successful in certain positions, so they started telling them where they have to play, and that became tradition.

Not impossible but not the situation a team would want. Staying away from the LH throwing catcher but even that has it's disadvantages, just one the greater number of RH batters he has to throw around on attempted steals.

LH throwing second and third basemen and shortstops, not very good at all. Not going to repeat some of the reasons why, I have already posted some.

There is no predjudice, why would there be predjudice in place for only LH throwing infielders, not so in the outfield. The reasons are obvious, if it were feasible we would have seen LH throwing infielders after all these years.

I agree with your point, some might adjust but they would still be at a great disadvantage, they have a built in disadvantage that they cannot overcome well enough to play regular.

[NotAboutEgo]

IMO, I don't think the adjustment would be that significant, given that a player had enough talent and skill to compete at a high level. There are things that a RH fielder has to adjust to that would be similar, like a RH RF making a run into the RF corner, catching the ball, and then having to stop and then turn around (whichever way they do it) and then throwing to a bag that there's a play at. They have to stop their momentum, then turn (either do a full spin around or stop and then turn to their throwing hand side) to throw. I don't see how that's any different than a LH 2Bman/SS/3Bman doing the same thing.

[NotAboutEgo]

The next time my team has practice, I'll have the LH 1Bman and the LH 3Bman/SS work on turning DPs from each position to see how they adjust and if it's easy for them to or not. They've done it before, but I haven't analyzed it a lot. I'll pay attention to details more too see what happens.

Like I said, the LH 3Bman/SS always plays either 3B or SS when she's not pitching (she never plays anywhere else). I've never thought about not having her play either because she's LH. She always gets the job done and is one of the strongest fielders and throwers on the team.