Left-Handed Catchers

[RuthMayBond]

IMO, I don't think the adjustment would be that significant, given that a player had enough talent and skill to compete at a high level. There are things that a RH fielder has to adjust to that would be similar, like a RH RF making a run into the RF corner, catching the ball, and then having to stop and then turn around (whichever way they do it) and then throwing to a bag that there's a play at. They have to stop their momentum, then turn (either do a full spin around or stop and then turn to their throwing hand side) to throw.

That can happen to ANY outfielder NO MATTER which handed they are



It's a matter of how more frequently this happens in the IF, and that these plays will ALWAYS be more difficult for LHers. How's that 3B doing on bunts?

[NotAboutEgo]

That can happen to ANY outfielder NO MATTER which handed they are



It's a matter of how more frequently this happens in the IF, and that these plays will ALWAYS be more difficult for LHers. How's that 3B doing on bunts?

Exactly. So, why would it be any different for an IF to have to make that kind of adjustment compared to an OF having to make a similar adjustment?

[RuthMayBond]

Exactly. So, why would it be any different for an IF to have to make that kind of adjustment compared to an OF having to make a similar adjustment?

We're tired of explaining this, I'm outta this thread

[ipitch]

Exactly. So, why would it be any different for an IF to have to make that kind of adjustment compared to an OF having to make a similar adjustment?

It's pretty simple...

OFs of either hand are at a disadvantage at times. It's pretty close to 50/50 as to whether you'd want a RF to throw RH or LH. And, throws from the outfield are less important than infield throws. Outfield assists are far less common than infield assists.

A LH 3B/SS/2B would be at a disadvantage a larger percentage of the time than a RH. Perhaps 80/20. Plus, a batter could purposely bunt down the 3rd base line to a LH 3B, but a batter cannot hit to a specific spot in the outfield to put a fielder at a disadvantage.

[NotAboutEgo]

As I've stated, my LH 3Bman/SS has no problem making the same plays that RH 3Bmen/SS's make... so I don't see what the big deal is.

[TonyK]

Hick Carpenter, Bill Greenwood, Roger Connor, Jimmy Hallinan, Jimmy Macullar, and Bill McClellan were lefties who each played in 2 or more seasons at 2B/SS/3B. Lefty Sam Trott even had the nerve to try and play both 2B and C in the same season. I wonder just how bad their fielding pcts. were compared with their peers?

I'm answering my own question since I think what lefties did when given the chance to play ML 2B/SS/3B/C should serve to guide us:

Hick Carpenter played 1,059 games at 3B. His career fielding percentage was ABOVE the league averages by .04. His career range factor was below league averages by .05.

Bill Greenwood played 538 games at 2B. His career fielding percentage was ABOVE the league averages by .03. His career range factor was below league averages by .16.

Sam Trott, the guy who played both 2B & C in one season, in 272 games at C had a career fielding precentage ABOVE the league average by .03. His career range factor was also WAY ABOVE the league averages by .96!

Roger Connor played 68 games at 2B. His career fielding percentage was below the league average by .28. His career range factor was WAY ABOVE the league averages by .83!

Jimmy Macullar in 325 games at SS was very close to his league averages, and Jimmy Hallinan was not a good fielder at all.

So historically we do have some lefties who had great range, some who had excellent gloves, and some who probably had great arms. I omitted lefties with only 1 ML season from this list because I felt it wasn't enough games to make any evaluation. I look forward to one day seeing a lefty given the opportunity to play any of these positions in the ML's. We may see him (or her) make spectacular plays due to their handedness!

[TonyK]

It's pretty simple...

OFs of either hand are at a disadvantage at times. It's pretty close to 50/50 as to whether you'd want a RF to throw RH or LH. And, throws from the outfield are less important than infield throws. Outfield assists are far less common than infield assists.

A LH 3B/SS/2B would be at a disadvantage a larger percentage of the time than a RH. Perhaps 80/20. Plus, a batter could purposely bunt down the 3rd base line to a LH 3B, but a batter cannot hit to a specific spot in the outfield to put a fielder at a disadvantage.

I imagine a lefty 3B would practice fielding bunts and making throws to first about 10,000 times to at least become adequate at it. Today's MLers just might be the worst group of bunters in ML history. Would a lefty 3B take away any two-baggers hit down the line that a righty 3B might not get to?

[SHOELESSJOE3]

I imagine a lefty 3B would practice fielding bunts and making throws to first about 10,000 times to at least become adequate at it. Today's MLers just might be the worst group of bunters in ML history. Would a lefty 3B take away any two-baggers hit down the line that a righty 3B might not get to?

He could practice all day and all night and guess what, he still has to turn his body around on a bunt to make the throw to first. Have you thought of this one, a ball hit to his right, try to turn and get something on the ball throwing to second base if he tries for a DP. SS coming in on a slow roller, where the RH scoops up the ball and sidearms the throw to first, what does the left handed SS do after he picks up the ball, how does he get anything on the throw.

I'm in disbelief reading posts that try to make a point, a very weak point, that a LH throwing second or third baseman or SS stop could play those positions as well as a RH thrower. No one is saying they would have a fielding problem, the problem is having to turn, position their body and then get something in the throw.

Don't you think that if they could play those positions we would have seen one by now...........after all these years.
What do you think, managers and others in the game just don't want LH throwers at that position for no reason.


Where are they all, where have they been all these years, why are there none, why only a handful in the last 50 years.

Not much more to be said, you two are losing the debate, if you don't get it by now you never will.................where are they, don't hold your breath.

It's all yours, nothing more to say, you have the last word.. Why don't one of you start a poll, LH or RH at those positions.

[NotAboutEgo]

He could practice all day and all night and guess what, he still has to turn his body around on a bunt to make the throw to first. Have you thought of this one, a ball hit to his right, try to turn and get something on the ball throwing to second base if he tries for a DP. SS coming in on a slow roller, where the RH scoops up the ball and sidearms the throw to first, what does the left handed SS do after he picks up the ball, how does he get anything on the throw.

I'm in disbelief reading posts that try to make a point, a very weak point, that a LH throwing second or third baseman or SS stop could play those positions as well as a RH thrower. No one is saying they would have a fielding problem, the problem is having to turn, position their body and then get something in the throw.

Don't you think that if they could play those positions we would have seen one by now...........after all these years.
What do you think, managers and others in the game just don't want LH throwers at that position for no reason.


Where are they all, where have they been all these years, why are there none, why only a handful in the last 50 years.

Not much more to be said, you two are losing the debate, if you don't get it by now you never will.................where are they, don't hold your breath.

It's all yours, nothing more to say, you have the last word.. Why don't one of you start a poll, LH or RH at those positions.

We're *losing* the debate... because you said so???

I disagree with your position that it's not very possible for ML LH's to play those positions, regardless of what has happened throughout history. If someone in amateur ball can field and throw effectively and can turn DPs while being LH, then MLB players should be able to do it much better and much easier, since playing baseball IS their bread and butter, and they do it almost everyday for at least 8 months a year.

I'm not losing the debate. I just haven't convinced you, and you haven't convinced me.

[TonyK]

He could practice all day and all night and guess what, he still has to turn his body around on a bunt to make the throw to first. Have you thought of this one, a ball hit to his right, try to turn and get something on the ball throwing to second base if he tries for a DP. SS coming in on a slow roller, where the RH scoops up the ball and sidearms the throw to first, what does the left handed SS do after he picks up the ball, how does he get anything on the throw.

I'm in disbelief reading posts that try to make a point, a very weak point, that a LH throwing second or third baseman or SS stop could play those positions as well as a RH thrower. No one is saying they would have a fielding problem, the problem is having to turn, position their body and then get something in the throw.

Don't you think that if they could play those positions we would have seen one by now...........after all these years.
What do you think, managers and others in the game just don't want LH throwers at that position for no reason.


Where are they all, where have they been all these years, why are there none, why only a handful in the last 50 years.

Not much more to be said, you two are losing the debate, if you don't get it by now you never will.................where are they, don't hold your breath.

It's all yours, nothing more to say, you have the last word.. Why don't one of you start a poll, LH or RH at those positions.

Please address my post about ACTUAL ML LEFTIES who played these positions and I would love to hear your excuses.

I present historical facts to everyone and you rant on and on about how no lefty could ever play at these positions. We are all aware of the scarcity of lefties playing these positions. Present something new to this discussion please.

[ipitch]

Would a lefty 3B take away any two-baggers hit down the line that a righty 3B might not get to?

Sure. A lefty will have at least one advantage over a righty at any position.

[TonyK]

Sure. A lefty will have at least one advantage over a righty at any position.

Some of their advantages at some positions may not be as great as a righties. I think we all agree about that and understand the examples. I don't care which hand a player wears his glove on. If he can make fewer errors, throw out more baserunners trying to steal, or get to more ground balls then I don't care about the What If plays that may or not occur.

[TonyK]

As I've stated, my LH 3Bman/SS has no problem making the same plays that RH 3Bmen/SS's make... so I don't see what the big deal is.

Does she wear an infielders or an outfielders glove?

Let's suppose she wanted to play in a WMLB league someday. She would have three or four years to improve her fielding at SS or 3B. During that time she would be adjusting her positioning for batters in order to make up for any losses in time due to being lefthanded. As ipitch and I have said, there are plays she can make that a righty might have a hard time with. I agree that it shouldn't be a big deal.

[TonyK]

Jack Clements was a ML catcher for 17 seasons from 1884-1900. He was a lefty whose fielding average was ABOVE the league averages and whose range was ABOVE the league averages. He caught in 1,073 ML games and during the time when catchers had moved up close to the batter. Does anybody know what was written or said about his fielding?

[ipitch]

I don't care which hand a player wears his glove on. If he can make fewer errors, throw out more baserunners trying to steal, or get to more ground balls then I don't care about the What If plays that may or not occur.

Everything might seem just fine if a lefty 3B fields a grounder and throws out the runner, but there's a very good chance that a RH with equal talent would have thrown out the runner by a larger margin. Of course this doesn't really matter much for THAT specific play, but over the course of a season, the RH is going to be able to throw out more runners. There's just more plays that will happen that will put the LH in a bad position to make a quick throw.

[NotAboutEgo]

Does she wear an infielders or an outfielders glove?

Let's suppose she wanted to play in a WMLB league someday. She would have three or four years to improve her fielding at SS or 3B. During that time she would be adjusting her positioning for batters in order to make up for any losses in time due to being lefthanded. As ipitch and I have said, there are plays she can make that a righty might have a hard time with. I agree that it shouldn't be a big deal.

She wears an IF glove. I deter any of our IF from wearing OF gloves, because they are way too big to wear on the IF. Sometimes, when a player is making the switch from softball to baseball, I tell them they'll need to get an IF glove, but sometimes they don't believe me. So, I let them practice in the IF a few times with their OF/softball glove, and they soon find out that they need to switch. Anyway, that's another tangent.

I agree with what you're saying. As I've stated, if an amateur player, who plays only a handful of games a summer and who practices one time a week, can do it, then an MLB player should be able to do it. The gal I'm talking about has great fielding skills and fundamentals and has a great arm... strong and accurate... so it's more about that than about being RH or LH.

Some may argue that amateur players, for the most part, may not run as fast as MLB players, making it easier to make the play... but my counter argument to that is most MLB players have more developed muscles, fundmentals, mechanics, and strength than most amateur players. Also, most MLB players aren't speed demons on the basepaths.

[NotAboutEgo]

Everything might seem just fine if a lefty 3B fields a grounder and throws out the runner, but there's a very good chance that a RH with equal talent would have thrown out the runner by a larger margin. Of course this doesn't really matter much for THAT specific play, but over the course of a season, the RH is going to be able to throw out more runners. There's just more plays that will happen that will put the LH in a bad position to make a quick throw.

I don't see this happening to any large degree. Again, LH find ways of adjusting. For example, if there's a LH 3Bman, and a ball is hit down the 3B line that the 3Bman dives for and catches, what would the big deal be about jumping up and then turning the opposite way that a RH turns to make the throw to 1B or 2B? If this was practiced over and over, it wouldn't be a big deal.

The gal I've been talking about and our LH 1Bman practice DPs from SS and 2nd as well, and they've been able to make the adjustment by turning the oppsite way or stepping a bit differently. They are good enough that they can still find the bag in time and make the throw in time.

I won't put anyone else at 3B, unless they have shown me that they are better than the LH 3Bman/SS... and so far, there haven't been any.

[Imgran]

Let's talk about the one defensive position where both LH and RH have always been allowed to play -- 1B.

Yeah, yeah, I know, it's First Base -- Where Anyone Can Play, except that we all know that that isn't true because of the times where the experiment of moving an aging slugger to the position has failed badly.

Who are the best defensive 1B? Well, each handedness has advantages and disadvantages. Lefties do a better job of covering grounders playing to their right. Righties guard the lines better. Both have advantages and disadvantages in the kinds of plays a 1Bman makes -- and in the end it's up to the individual skills of the player, rather than the handness, to determine who's the best 1B in a given season.

Which is kinda our point. There's nothing really magical about 1B that suggests that 1B can play it, but not other infield positions, well.

The myth of 1B being the easiest defensive infield position is just that -- or at least, even if you're playing 1B you're still definitely playing baseball. Of all infielders, a first baseman is the guy most likely to be touching the ball at the end of a given play. You guard the right field line, feed the pitcher accurately on a close grounder, and occasionally need to make a throw across the diamond to third. You need darn good hands to play first base, and you're just as in on that bunt play as the righties-only third baseman. even if you might be able to make a throw to second more cleanly to nab the lead runner if you are lefthanded.

In fact, there's a number of specific situations just compelling as Mr. Bunt-To-The-Third-Baseman where lefty 1B's hold a supposed advantage because of their handness. Righthanded throwers seem to do fine, though, considering that one just won the AL Gold Glove.

I rather suspect that on the whole the reverse would be true as well for the other positions -- that when you come right down to it any lefty who had proved their way through the minors to survive in a position defensively would have solved the high-school-baseball-level problems people keep digging up to say why lefties can't play SS, 3B, 2B and C and might have even found advantages in their own style of play.

[ipitch]

I don't see this happening to any large degree. Again, LH find ways of adjusting. For example, if there's a LH 3Bman, and a ball is hit down the 3B line that the 3Bman dives for and catches, what would the big deal be about jumping up and then turning the opposite way that a RH turns to make the throw to 1B or 2B? If this was practiced over and over, it wouldn't be a big deal.

I'm sure if it was practiced over and over it could become pretty easy for someone. BUT, it's not just about the ease of the play, it's about how long it takes to make the play. Anything extra that a lefty has to do (such as turning his body toward first base) puts him at a disadvantage over a righty.

[Imgran]

I'm sure if it was practiced over and over it could become pretty easy for someone. BUT, it's not just about the ease of the play, it's about how long it takes to make the play. Anything extra that a lefty has to do (such as turning his body toward first base) puts him at a disadvantage over a righty.

You can make up for that with a good, strong arm. It's not really that much worse in principle to play a softie towards the infield as a lefty than it is to play a hotshot at deep third as a righty where you have to reach the glove across the body to make the play -- playing the corner might even be easier at third as a lefthander (comparable to a good RHT 1B's abilities).

I could easily see a LHT 3B walking the ball sideways, scooping up the routine grounder, transferring and throwing. It would not be a difficult play. We've all seen RHH 1B's make similar plays on a 3-1 putout. Shortstops, same deal, although there might be a range issue in the hole

Most of the specific situational issues we're talking about here are uncommon plays or marginal ones. I've seen plenty of RHT 3B's look silly on that bunt play for example.

I think that part of the problem here is that we're forming our opinions on the difficulry of lefthanded infielders' work based on the only lefthanded "infielders" we see in action on a daily basis -- lefthanded pitchers. I doubt a trained, full-time infielder would have the kind of turnaround issues, transfer problems and bad throws to first LHP's do.

[NotAboutEgo]

I agree completely with Imgran. There are plenty of situations that put RHs at a disadvantage, yet they are still able to make the plays. It's a matter of learning what you have to do to adjust and make the play. There are disadvantages to both RHs and LHs, but the disadvantages aren't so great that they make that much of a difference. If someone doesn't have a lot of athletic ability to begin with, then I'd say that they probably wouldn't be able to make the adjustments very well. But that's based on ability and talent. Good athletes and ballplayers are able to do it.

Contrary to popular belief, 1B isn't an easy position to play. One has to be really good at scooping balls out of the dirt the be an effective 1Bman... if you don't want the other team getting more than 3 outs an inning. Also, while holding runners on, they have to hurry to get into position when the ball is hit. And, as Imgran stated, they have more balls thrown to them than anyone on the field except for the pitcher and catcher.

Back to the LH debate, I'm speaking from experience of having a LH 3Bman/SS and a LH 1Bman who also can play 3B/SS/2B. Also, one year, we had 3 LH catchers. Them being LH didn't make them any worse a fielder or catcher than anyone else. The adjustments that they have to make are slight ones and aren't too difficult to overcome.

[ipitch]

You can make up for that with a good, strong arm.

But, you are talking about a theoretical player, and no matter how strong his arm is I can make MY theoretical RH player's arm just as strong, right? In other words, if everything is equal except for a player's handedness, the RH has the advantage.

I'm not saying that a LH can't play 3B, but I am saying that he'd have to be a lot better than an average righty.

[ipitch]

Back to the LH debate, I'm speaking from experience of having a LH 3Bman/SS and a LH 1Bman who also can play 3B/SS/2B. Also, one year, we had 3 LH catchers. Them being LH didn't make them any worse a fielder or catcher than anyone else. The adjustments that they have to make are slight ones and aren't too difficult to overcome.

How old are these players? I have no doubt that a 10 year-old lefty could play better at 2B/3B/SS than everyone on his team or in his entire Little League. But, I think that becomes more and more unlikely as the players get older.

[tigers527]

I would speculate that the differences a LH 2B or SS would have when it comes to fielding and throwing for the position would be minimal. It is all about footwork and you will often see RHers "surround" the ball as play dictates. I could see where a LH 3Bman might have a little trouble fielding/throwing a bunt, but come on, dude has been LH his whole life, I would imagine the footwork involved would take fractions of a second longer than the same play by a RHer (but I guess that's what precludes them LHers).

OK that's out of the way, I always thought the LH catcher thing was cause of the break a RH catcher throws. A RHer throws a natural sinker when trying to throw out a runner at 2nd. When a RH throws a good ball to second it breaks away from the runner and then darts down for the tag to be applied. For a LHed C to duplicate that same break they would need to throw a curve/slider to the bag, I don't think you would get the exact same results, besides not having the same "mustard" on the ball. If a LHer threw the natural sinker a RHer does the ball would be breaking into the runner making the play much more difficult for the SS or 2Bman. I am sure a different grip/arm slot would lessen that issue, but I would think a LHer would not be as effective at throwing runners out at 2nd (everything else being equal).

[NotAboutEgo]

How old are these players? I have no doubt that a 10 year-old lefty could play better at 2B/3B/SS than everyone on his team or in his entire Little League. But, I think that becomes more and more unlikely as the players get older.

These are adult women I'm talking about. And we've had a ton of talent on our team since it began playing in 2000. I've played baseball all over the country and in Ontario and Manitoba, and there are a lot of talented players (women) all over who can do it.