Apology accepted?

[W_Marone]

Who would you forgive first? After forgivin said player would be enducted into the HOF. Joe Jackson or Pete Rose?

[brett]

I would eventually forgive Rose if he asked for it, but he never will. I am convinced he wants to be the "great" guy on the outside, who got persecuted. Its worth a lot more ($$$) to him than getting in.

[-Kyle-]

Neither, they both cheated, and don't deserve to get in.

[Yankee Legend]

I wouldn't forgive them but I think players should be in the HOF for what they did on the field not off it. With that said, I think both deserve the HOF and it's a shame that they aren't in.

[W_Marone]

Neither, they both cheated, and don't deserve to get in.

I'm not sure I'd use the word cheated....I see cheating as scuffing up baseballs, steroids, corked bats, etc. I see these as breaking the rules of sorts....I dont know.. I consider cheating as doing something illegal to win or gain something. I dont consider gambling cheating, nor do I consider throwing a game cheating because they didnt win. I'm not sure if this had made any sense but work with me here.

[Skin & Bones]

I'm not sure I'd use the word cheated....I see cheating as scuffing up baseballs, steroids, corked bats, etc. I see these as breaking the rules of sorts....I dont know.. I consider cheating as doing something illegal to win or gain something. I dont consider gambling cheating, nor do I consider throwing a game cheating because they didnt win. I'm not sure if this had made any sense but work with me here.

Throwing games is cheating. It alters the players numbers because they are choosing to lose. It also inflates their opponents statistics, giving them numbers easily they other-wise wouldn't have put up.

[-Kyle-]

I'm not sure I'd use the word cheated....I see cheating as scuffing up baseballs, steroids, corked bats, etc. I see these as breaking the rules of sorts....I dont know.. I consider cheating as doing something illegal to win or gain something. I dont consider gambling cheating, nor do I consider throwing a game cheating because they didnt win. I'm not sure if this had made any sense but work with me here.

Ok I see, but they still broke a rule of honesty in Baseball and never deserve to get it. It sounds a little harsh I guess, but I firmly believe that.

[Williamsburg2599]

What if I think that Shoeless was innocent?

[Tailgater]

I think joe was innocent. rose is guilty. I'd forgive them both tho.

[LGehrigFan]

In some aspects, I think Shoeless Joe is not guilty, but that's another in-depth topic. Plus, it's been 80+ years since the incident, so I would forgive Joe first.

There are some aspects of Pete Rose I don't like, including his character which the Hall of Fame judges on.

[ChrisLDuncan]

Both...no reason not too, can a mod at a "both" option? If you're going to tie me down and make me pick one I'd choose Shoeless

[KCGHOST]

I'd refuse to vote. They both can stay out.

[Brian McKenna]

nor do I consider throwing a game cheating because they didnt win.

Completely at loss with the logic here. Game-fixing is not cheating??

And attempted murder is not murder but you're still going to jail and being ostracized from society.

[Jim Abbott]

I despise Rose, may he be banished from the hall for eternity

[Fuzzy Bear]

I'm not sure I'd use the word cheated....I see cheating as scuffing up baseballs, steroids, corked bats, etc. I see these as breaking the rules of sorts....I dont know.. I consider cheating as doing something illegal to win or gain something. I dont consider gambling cheating, nor do I consider throwing a game cheating because they didnt win. I'm not sure if this had made any sense but work with me here.

Dude, if you can't see throwing games, or conspiring to throw games as the worst thing an athlete can do, then our society has really gone too far down the road of moral relativity.

Throwing a game (unlike using a corked bat, roiding, etc.) means that the game has a staged, planned outcome. It turns MLB into the WWE. Entertainment, but not sport.

[W_Marone]

I knew when I wrote that what i was trying to portray wouldnt come across the right way...and hey now, looks like it didnt hahaha.....


What Jackson did, sure it's cheating, but not Pete Rose, betting on baseball is not cheating, it doesnt help you gain an unfair advantage.....unless he threw some games of the team he was managing, but from what I rememember he didnt intentionally lose any games.

[Wade8813]

I'm not sure if Joe even needs to be forgiven or not, so I'd go with him first.

[Sliding Billy]

An apology from Joe Jackson would certainly be a remarkable event, but I don't think I'd care to receive it personally.

[Captain Cold Nose]

An apology from Joe Jackson would certainly be a remarkable event, but I don't think I'd care to receive it personally.

Think of the TV rights war.

I'd accept them, but that hardly changes the crime being committed. Nothing would change, as it shouldn't.

[-Kyle-]

What if I think that Shoeless was innocent?

Well, Judge Landis got the final say, and he banished him from baseball. Both are guilty of a crime, therefore meaning they are banished from baseball and not allowed in the hall of fame. Pretty simple in my opinion.

[Williamsburg2599]

Well, Judge Landis got the final say, and he banished him from baseball. Both are guilty of a crime, therefore meaning they are banished from baseball and not allowed in the hall of fame. Pretty simple in my opinion.

Shoeless isin't "guilty" of anything. He was found innocent in a court of law. Maybe a baseball crime, but not a legal crime. So I guess I'd "forgive" Shoeless first, although If I was commish.....

[Rose4theHall]

Both these guys not being in the Hall goes against what America is about. We are a country of 2nd chances, it says so on the Statue of Liberty, and this isnt Stalinist Russia where we convieniently erase people from history. Why is baseball, something that is also used to define what is great about this country, not following what the country would do?

I wish they would get off this high horse of a "life ban" and change it to 25 years. Its so much more sensible, and frankly, a little more "American" than a one and done life ban. Put the fact that they were banned at one point on their plaques, but dont try and erase them from the game. Its very petty and almost nonsensical.

[brett]

Both these guys not being in the Hall goes against what America is about. We are a country of 2nd chances, it says so on the Statue of Liberty, and this isnt Stalinist Russia where we convieniently erase people from history. Why is baseball, something that is also used to define what is great about this country, not following what the country would do?

I wish they would get off this high horse of a "life ban" and change it to 25 years. Its so much more sensible, and frankly, a little more "American" than a one and done life ban. Put the fact that they were banned at one point on their plaques, but dont try and erase them from the game. Its very petty and almost nonsensical.

Again, I am confident that Pete Rose would have had the ban lifted by now if he had apologized. It was decided that for a player or manager to bet on baseball risked the integrity of the game. Rose denied betting on baseball repeatedly and it was later demonstrated that he did.

Besides, Rose is just not that good of a player for me to care. He is 4th or 5th tier on a 5 tier ranking of hall of famers. OK, maybe he is upper 4th tier, but he is not a first or second, or even probably a 3rd tier hall of famer.

Still, as I said before, if you want Rose in, write to HIM and ask him to apologize and ask for forgiveness. That is all that it would take. All of the Rose supporters out there who want to know why Rose will not get reinstated? Take your favorite Pete Rose baseball card, look at he person on the card. He will never let himself get reinstated. Direct your anger properly.

But I do agree it makes little sense for me to ban a player from the hall, because the hall is not an award in my view, it is an historical museum.

[-Kyle-]

Shoeless isin't "guilty" of anything. He was found innocent in a court of law. Maybe a baseball crime, but not a legal crime. So I guess I'd "forgive" Shoeless first, although If I was commish.....

Well I was refering to a baseball crime.

[Rose4theHall]

Again, I am confident that Pete Rose would have had the ban lifted by now if he had apologized. It was decided that for a player or manager to bet on baseball risked the integrity of the game. Rose denied betting on baseball repeatedly and it was later demonstrated that he did.

Besides, Rose is just not that good of a player for me to care. He is 4th or 5th tier on a 5 tier ranking of hall of famers. OK, maybe he is upper 4th tier, but he is not a first or second, or even probably a 3rd tier hall of famer.

Still, as I said before, if you want Rose in, write to HIM and ask him to apologize and ask for forgiveness. That is all that it would take. All of the Rose supporters out there who want to know why Rose will not get reinstated? Take your favorite Pete Rose baseball card, look at he person on the card. He will never let himself get reinstated. Direct your anger properly.

But I do agree it makes little sense for me to ban a player from the hall, because the hall is not an award in my view, it is an historical museum.

You think an apology is all thats needed? I will respectfully disagree.

At least you got the underlying point of my argument, banning someone from a museum isnt a very smart thing to do.