Japanese Players in the Hall?

[Fatbill]

Overly prideful? Personally I think most Americans (and I am an American) dont have enough pride. Anyways, If a Japanese player doesn't want to be in the HOF, that's fine, but what about the ones who do? We shouldn't stereotype Japanese players like that.

Arrogant is probably the word I was looking for. A good example is Randy Bass (an American) being avoided worse than Barry Bonds by every Japanese pitcher & manager (including Oh himself) during Bass' run at Oh's season HR record. They would go to any length to prevent a foreigner from taking the record (a coach even said that). I'm just not sure Japanese players want to be in our Hall of Fame. We would be insinuating that [B]our[B] Hall of Fame is more prestigous & better than their's.

[tearforamariner]

Overly prideful? Personally I think most Americans (and I am an American) dont have enough pride. Anyways, If a Japanese player doesn't want to be in the HOF, that's fine, but what about the ones who do? We shouldn't stereotype Japanese players like that.


Why? Because we lost? Just because some Americans had too much of an ego problem to play in the WBC doesn't erase the fact that we got our behinds handed to us by Mexico and Canada. The fact that "we could of " put up a better team doesn't matter. If we could of put a better team in the World Cup, does that mean that last tournment shouldn't matter to soccer fans because every team wasn't the best that they could of been?


And as for the argument that Oh couldn't of hit more than 400 major league homers, here's a page from Jim Albright's site that gives proof that he probabily would have. (not to mention his .301 BA in Japan in over 22 years, his 9 MVPs, 18 Best 1B awards,
and his 23 Homers in 77 Japan Series games)

Long story short, if we want to make baseball the "world's game", we should start in Cooperstown, NY.

Would you put Hector Espino in the Hall as well?

[Fatbill]

If Josh Gibson gets in (which he did).

[tearforamariner]

If Josh Gibson gets in (which he did).

Josh Gibson and Hector Espino are hardly comprable.

[Fatbill]

Josh Gibson and Hector Espino are hardly comprable.

Greatest sluggers in their respective leagues. The Negro & Mexican leagues deserve to be treated equally.

[tearforamariner]

Greatest sluggers in their respective leagues. The Negro & Mexican leagues deserve to be treated equally.

If we assume the Negro League and Mexican League are equal, then Josh Gibson in still far better than Espino. More Home Runs, better average, better defensively.

[JamesWest]

[QUOTE=Williamsburg2599]

Why? Because we lost? Just because some Americans had too much of an ego problem to play in the WBC doesn't erase the fact that we got our behinds handed to us by Mexico and Canada. The fact that "we could of " put up a better team doesn't matter. If we could of put a better team in the World Cup, does that mean that last tournment shouldn't matter to soccer fans because every team wasn't the best that they could of been?


QUOTE]

I don't care who won or lost the WBC. The US could have won it and it would not change my opinion that the WBC was a meaningless tournament that was created to sell MLB gear in places like Beijing and Venice.

[Old Sweater]

This should be in the HOF section - it has been argued there many times. Run a search or PM Jim Albright to find the relevant threads.

Dang it FatBill, you should know better by now, you joined up yesterday!!! You act like your a 15 year old kid.

[Fatbill]

If we assume the Negro League and Mexican League are equal, then Josh Gibson in still far better than Espino. More Home Runs, better average, better defensively.

Tell me Espnino isn't better than PHIL RIZZUTO

[tearforamariner]

Tell me Espnino isn't better than PHIL RIZZUTO

Tone it down a bit. I don't care if he is better than Rizzuto or not. Rizzuto was a mistake, as are about a 2 dozen other guys you could name. You should not vote in members to the Hall based on how they compare to the mistakes of the Hall. Espino didn't play in the Major Leagues. The majority of his career was played in Mexico. That's enough to keep him out of Cooperstown for me. He's a Mexican Baseball Hall of Famer. That's where he played his ball, that's where he should be.

I have nothing against other countries, but they don't induct American players into their Hall of Fames. Why should our Hall be different?

[Fatbill]

Good point.
I think I'll make my own International Baseball Hall of Fame.
I am genuis.

[jalbright]

All right folks--the personal nature of some of the posts in this thread are just this side of acceptable. You've got to tone down that stuff. I've said it before and I'll say it again: at least in this forum, once you go from talking about the post to the person who made it, you're on thin ice. Go much further, and you may entitle yourself to a vacation from the site for a few days. That's it for the moderator speech.

I'm not going to reiterate the arguments I've made in my musings thread and in baseballguru.com on this topic. There's nothing new here except for some overly enthusiastic reviews of Oh. I love Oh's game, but he's no better than the third or fourth best first baseman of all time. Gehrig and Foxx beat him cleanly despite playing in higher offensive eras. It's awfully hard to ignore what should be a fifty or more point advantage in average in favor of those two over the .270-.280 Oh would have averaged in the majors. Gehrig and Foxx could match him in power, and wouldn't be far behind in walks.

Jim Albright

[Brian McKenna]

[QUOTE=JamesWest]

WBC was a meaningless tournament that was created to sell MLB gear in places like Beijing and Venice.

To me tournaments are by their very nature meaningless. Take the same teams and start another tournament right after the other and you're probably going to get a vastly different results. That goes for the postseason in any major sport as well. Their value lies in the experience of the moment and the anticipation of the next tournament and the study of the past.

I'm not crazy about the WBC but I will say that it is a positive in the continued effort to spread and popularize baseball throughout the world.

[Dalkowski110]

"Would you put Hector Espino in the Hall as well?"

No. He's not in the least comparable to Gibson, unless you want to induct him for playing a year with the Jacksonville Suns in 1964. This Hall of Fame is for AMERICAN baseball. Not necessarily American baseball players, but American BASEBALL. Hector Espino is, IIRC, in the Mexican Baseball Hall of Fame.

[Williamsburg2599]

Would you put Hector Espino in the Hall as well?

Possibly. I don't know much about him, but he was in no way better than Oh from what I read.

I don't care who won or lost the WBC. The US could have won it and it would not change my opinion that the WBC was a meaningless tournament that was created to sell MLB gear in places like Beijing and Venice.

Then how do you make the WBC "meaningfull"?

[JamesWest]

Then how do you make the WBC "meaningfull"?

You can't. It would be no more meaningful than barnstorming was.

[Williamsburg2599]

You can't. It would be no more meaningful than barnstorming was.

So you can't have a meaningful international baseball tournment?

[JamesWest]

So you can't have a meaningful international baseball tournment?

In my opinion, international tournaments don't mean anything.

[Dalkowski110]

"Possibly."

Then Buzz Arlett, Smead Jolley, Ike Boone, Frank Shellenback, Herman Pillette, and all the other PCLer's have hope yet.