Jim Edmonds

[Freakshow]

Dale Murphy is better than Edmonds and at least as good as Snyder in terms of peak value. Dale Murphy won back-to-back MVPs.

Comparing 10-year primes in WAR:

Murphy
80-89
45.9
7.5
7.2
7.1
6.3
5.3
5.3
2.9
1.6
1.4
1.3

Edmonds
96-05
56.4
8.4
7.3
7.2
6.8
6.8
6.4
4.5
4.4
3.8
0.8

[SouthPaw77]

It was almost an afterthought, an uncelebrated statement on a mid-February afternoon informing the baseball world that Jim Edmonds, one of the best center fielders of the past quarter-century, was calling it a career.

Whether by Mark McGwire of Albert Pujols, Edmonds was always overshadowed by a national megastar during his days in St. Louis, but when one considers that Edmonds was a threat with the bat, and an incredible center fielder who reached the post-season seven times, it all leads to one question:

Is Jim Edmonds a Hall of Famer...continue...?

[SouthPaw77]

I have noticed that I misspelled Mr. Edmonds' name in the title, but I have been unable to correct that through editing.

That said, I have notified the moderator, so I hope my mistake can be remedied soon.

My apologies for the typo and thank you for reading.

[jalbright]

Threads merged.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Edmonds is clearly a borderline HOFer, and a clear cut over Dawson and Rice, IMO. His peak value case is pretty good.

He's about even with Earl Averill, IMO. I'd vote for him. I recognize he's not a slam dunk, but he was a truly great player for a period of years.

[Freakshow]

Hall of Fame center fielders with fewer career WAR than Edmonds

Rk           Player WAR/pos    G From   To
1       Lloyd Waner    24.3 1993 1927 1945
2       Hack Wilson    39.1 1348 1923 1934
3       Earle Combs    44.7 1455 1924 1935
4     Kirby Puckett    44.8 1783 1984 1995
5      Earl Averill    45.0 1669 1929 1941
6         Edd Roush    46.5 1967 1913 1931
7        Larry Doby    47.4 1533 1947 1959
8       Kiki Cuyler    49.6 1879 1921 1938
9        Hugh Duffy    49.6 1737 1888 1906
10        Max Carey    50.6 2476 1910 1929
11     Andre Dawson    57.0 2627 1976 1996
12   Richie Ashburn    58.0 2189 1948 1962
13      Duke Snider    67.5 2143 1947 1964

Hey, this was my 4500th post at BBF!

[dominik]

I think he did himself a disservice by retiring.

Being just short of 400 and 2000 will hurt his case even more. one season and he would have gotten there (only 7 HR and 50 hits needed).

400/2000 would at least have been something, but 1950/393 is absolutely nothing.

He would deserve to get in, but with those numbers I can't see it.

[Bravesfan1984]

Jim Edmonds retired! it is still a no for me. Very good player outstanding defensive player just not good enough offensively and not one of the best players in the league enough.

[White Knight]

He's not a top 5 all time defensive CF'er. Max Carey / Tris Speaker / Richie Ashburn / Willie Mays / Paul Blair / and we're done, and there's more that are better than Jim besides those. He's probably not even the best of his own time; a healthy Ken Griffey Jr. beats him out defensively.

His rate numbers are pretty good, but his ink totals are lousy. He's pretty good with the bat, but he's never been among the league's best at any particular time.

I don't know if it would be a travesty if he got in the Hall... but he'd certainly be one of the worst players there. I can't imagine him getting in.

I know this is from 2004 and you have probably vastly changed your mind by now with addition of UZR, but saying Griffey was better defensively made me smile. Back then, people believed he was the second-coming of Willie Mays with the glove. Now, all but the most casual fan knows he wasn't even in the top five of his generation.

[fenrir]

I voted yes because I think he's one of the ten best center fielders ever. His career path is unusual though (better hitter in his 30's compared to 20's), but since there's no evidence of any wrong doing, he should get in.

With that said, I doubt that he ever does get in.

[StanTheMan]

I am never big on personal ranking lists, ie "Player X is my #36th all time pitcher!" and "I have player Y as my #47th best outfielder and THAT'S why he's better than player Z"... and all that, but Edmonds at a top 10 CF?

I'm intrigued. Who is 9 and who is 11?

[fenrir]

I am never big on personal ranking lists, ie "Player X is my #36th all time pitcher!" and "I have player Y as my #47th best outfielder and THAT'S why he's better than player Z"... and all that, but Edmonds at a top 10 CF?

I'm intrigued. Who is 9 and who is 11?

Last time I made a list it looked like this:

1. Mantle
2. Mays
3. Cobb
4. Speaker
5. Griffey Jr.
6. DiMaggio
7. Snider
8. Hamilton
9. Edmonds
10. Puckett

I think I may move Edmonds up though. In his prime offensively he was nearly on par with Griffey. Obviously Griffey has had the more impressive overall career, but Edmonds in his prime was a great offensive player who played very good defense.

[Freakshow]

Players with 989+ G in CF (Hamilton's total)

Rk           Player WAR/pos OPS+ Rfield    PA From   To
1           Ty Cobb   159.4  168      0 13077 1905 1928 H
2       Willie Mays   154.7  155    183 12496 1951 1973 H
3      Tris Speaker   133.0  157     92 11987 1907 1928 H
4     Mickey Mantle   120.2  172    -37  9907 1951 1968 H
5      Joe DiMaggio    83.6  155     49  7673 1936 1951 H
6       Ken Griffey    78.6  135    -16 11304 1989 2010
7       Robin Yount    76.9  115    -46 12249 1974 1993 H
8    Billy Hamilton    69.6  141     30  7608 1888 1901 H
9       Jim Edmonds    67.9  131     85  7980 1993 2010
10      Duke Snider    67.5  140    -22  8237 1947 1964 H
11     Kenny Lofton    65.3  107    108  9235 1991 2007
12   Carlos Beltran    60.8  121     71  7767 1998 2012
13     Andruw Jones    60.4  111    243  8408 1996 2012
14         Jim Wynn    59.8  128    -27  8011 1963 1977
15   Richie Ashburn    58.0  111     76  9736 1948 1962 H
16     Willie Davis    57.2  105    104  9822 1960 1979
17     Andre Dawson    57.0  119     70 10769 1976 1996 H
18     Cesar Cedeno    52.2  123    -14  8133 1970 1986
19     Johnny Damon    51.6  105      5 10693 1995 2011
20      Tommy Leach    50.9  109     67  9051 1898 1918
21        Max Carey    50.6  107     86 10770 1910 1929 H

[J W]

This thread was made back in 2004 so I believe the poll numbers are misleading. Is there a way to restart it?

[White Knight]

Last time I made a list it looked like this:

1. Mantle
2. Mays
3. Cobb
4. Speaker
5. Griffey Jr.
6. DiMaggio
7. Snider
8. Hamilton
9. Edmonds
10. Puckett

I think I may move Edmonds up though. In his prime offensively he was nearly on par with Griffey. Obviously Griffey has had the more impressive overall career, but Edmonds in his prime was a great offensive player who played very good defense.

Mantle ahead of Mays? I'm curious why you rank him ahead.

[fenrir]

Mantle, Mays, and Cobb are all close for me. I realize that based on stats such as WAR or Winshares, it goes Cobb>Mays>>>Mantle. However, by any metric you look at, Mantle was better than both at his peak, and compared to Cobb, he did it against stronger competition. When it comes to Mays vs Mantle, Mays probably played in the stronger league when you consider the NL integrated faster than the AL, however, I don't think that's enough to close large advantage Mantle had over Mays with the bat. Mays did lose nearly two years in his prime though, which probably would have added to his career value, and probably brought up his rate stats a little.

As I said previously, it's very close between all three. With that said, I think Mantle was probably the most talented player to ever put on a uniform.

[jalbright]

This thread was made back in 2004 so I believe the poll numbers are misleading. Is there a way to restart it?

I'm going to create a new thread with a poll and then merge the two threads, keeping the new poll.

The current poll has 24 yes votes, 36 no.

The yeses:
538280,
AstrosFan,
Bigfoot 88,
Brad Harris,
Cougar,
damon berryhill,
dominik,
fenrir,
Fuzzy Bear,
J W,
John Shoemaker,
Jsquared83,
kiluckzle,
Matthew C.,
MyDogSparty,
nerfan,
nyykan_t,
Paul Wendt,
PVNICK,
Raseri,
ringo-dog,
rsuriyop,
Sockeye,
st.lewis11


The nos:
125osprey,
Ace Venom,
Bravesfan1984,
bravesfan6,
Brooklyn,
Captain Cold Nose,
cards fan,
cavalier1968,
chicagowhitesox1173,
Colorado Express,
Cowtipper,
Ducati12,
Edgartohof,
Ex-Expo fan,
four tool,
Francoeurstein,
Freakshow,
gman5431,
Gravy Train,
Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan,
greggurski,
hairmetalfreek,
jjpm74,
JohnCropp,
MadHatter,
NJRob65,
nordique,
Reds5,
rero0517,
Seattle1,
Second Base Coach,
StanTheMan,
THE OX,
TheMendozaLine,
vonkeitz,
westsidegrounds

[Bravesfan1984]

Very possible. 8-10 more homeruns, maybe another 30 RBIs and hey.. 405-10 HR, 1290-1300 RBI and a little more visually pleasing of a line on the back of his baseball card for '81 :-D

If Edmonds fails to gain election, its not going to be because of his lack of dominant peak or raw skill, it will be due to his fractured seasons and scattered injuries.

What dominate peek? He had a couple of very good years that is it. He hit 300 or better only 5 times and he had over 100 RBI's 4 times not reallly HOF numbers.

[White Knight]

What dominate peek? He had a couple of very good years that is it. He hit 300 or better only 5 times and he had over 100 RBI's 4 times not reallly HOF numbers.

I haven't seen your posts in a long time, I miss you saying that even Rickey Henderson and Jeter don't belong. Made for great debate.

[willshad]

What dominate peek? He had a couple of very good years that is it. He hit 300 or better only 5 times and he had over 100 RBI's 4 times not reallly HOF numbers.

I would say he had more than a 'couple of very good years'. 5 consecutive MVP quality seasons from 2000-2004, and 4 all star type seasons with the Angels. Not much outside of those 9 or 10 years, but you can say the same about a lot of hall of famers.

[Bravesfan1984]

I would say he had more than a 'couple of very good years'. 5 consecutive MVP quality seasons from 2000-2004, and 4 all star type seasons with the Angels. Not much outside of those 9 or 10 years, but you can say the same about a lot of hall of famers.

How many great seasons did he have though? I mean being 17th and 20th in MVP voting is not really that impressive. What HOFers can you say that about? If all it takes to get in the HOF is 4 All Star seasons then we would tons of players would get in.

[Jsquared83]

Dont forget, Edmonds put up his clean numbers amidst a lot of juicers back in the 2000s. Also, a top notch glove in CF too.

How many great seasons did he have though? I mean being 17th and 20th in MVP voting is not really that impressive. What HOFers can you say that about? If all it takes to get in the HOF is 4 All Star seasons then we would tons of players would get in.