The Ted Williams Shift

[Minstrel]

That Dyer Defense #2 looks like the typical shift employed today against sluggers like Giambi and Bonds. It's insane that they originally used a shift with NO infielders on the left side.

While now the third baseman plays where the shortstop usually does, to make it harder to just "poke one left" for a free single or double, the original shifts against Williams absolutely could have yielded up free singles and doubles had he just poked it or punched it to the left side. Even a bunt would have sufficed.

Thanks for all this original source material, Ubiquitous...it's really interesting.

[Ubiquitous]

That Dyer Defense #2 looks like the typical shift employed today against sluggers like Giambi and Bonds. It's insane that they originally used a shift with NO infielders on the left side.

While now the third baseman plays where the shortstop usually does, to make it harder to just "poke one left" for a free single or double, the original shifts against Williams absolutely could have yielded up free singles and doubles had he just poked it or punched it to the left side. Even a bunt would have sufficed.

Thanks for all this original source material, Ubiquitous...it's really interesting.

Williams did try to go to the left, but his stance just didn't let him do that effectively. In the cards series Williams did actually try to bunt to the left and he got castigated by the Boston reporters for doing that. Also if you look in some of those articles you will see that he did try to go to left but usually not with too much success.

When I get home I'll try and find more articles. I know for instance that his only IPHR came with the shift on with a poke to left, and that supposedly in the first attempt at a shift by Jimmy Dykes in 1941 Williams hit a double to left.

One of the things I find pretty amazing is the high number of groundballs that Ted was hitting. You don't really picture Ted Williams as a groundball hitter but in some of these articles he his hitting a lot of grounders to the right side. For instance NY secondbasemen supposedly snared 7 groundballs behind first base in one year alone.

[Bill Burgess]

I'd have to go with Ty on this one

------Me too.

[csh19792001]

This thread will devoted to articles, analysis, opinions, and debate about the defensive shift applied to Ted Williams in his career.

Excellent work, Ubi. I'm learning quite a bit here. Thanks for posting all of this information.

These are the kind of threads this forum needs more of.

And out of curiosity, how are you accessing these historical pieces currently?

[mwiggins]

Excellent work, Ubi. I'm learning quite a bit here. Thanks for posting all of this information.

These are the kind of threads this forum needs more of.

And out of curiosity, how are you accessing these historical pieces currently?

Agreed. This thread, and JamesWest's "this week in 1941/1951" have been the most interesting reads I've seen on this site in a while.

[JamesWest]

According to the Cleveland Plain Dealer on June 17, 1948. Lou Boudreau conceded that the extreme Williams shift was probably a thing of the past.

This is Ted's PBP the night before:

6/16/48 @ Cleveland

vs Bob Feller:

1st: single to second-forced at second (Spence GIDP)
3rd: double to LF-to third on WP-scores on Spence single
5th: doubles to LF
7th: HR to LF
vs Steve Gromek:
9th: BB-to second on Stephens single-to third on E5 (attempted double steal with Stephens on first)

After this game, Williams declares that the shift is dead.
Note that at this point in the season Williams is hitting .407.

Williams said that he wasn't doing anything different, but was hitting to LF more often because he was seeing more outside pitches.

[JamesWest]

Can you confirm that Jimmy Dykes used the Shift against Ted on July 23, 1941?

I find no mention of it in The Sporting News, but the news from Boston, that week, was dominated by Lefty Grove's 300th victory.

John Holway's The Last .400 Hitter, which is a day by day account of William's 1941 season also makes no mention of the shift.

[Ubiquitous]

Williams said that he wasn't doing anything different, but was hitting to LF more often because he was seeing more outside pitches.

Well somebody should have shot those pitchers then. Why would you set up the shift and then pitch him outside? Seems like you are asking for a double that way. I guess they were happy with a double instead of a homer to right.

[Ubiquitous]

An article from May of 1948. It discusses his hot start as well as points out Teds batting average in New York in 1948 and talks about the baseball.

[Ubiquitous]

From June 16th 1948. A little snippet that I find very importnat.

[Ubiquitous]

The sporting news is generally a week behind. So as Ted was heating up and going to left more and more he then had his June 16th game against Cleveland that James West already mentioned. I'm not done looking but I am really starting to believe more and more that this whole shift thing and Ted is a bit overblown. Todays view of Ted was that he was too stubborn to go to left and that he rarely did it. As I find out more and more about this that views seems more and more untenable. Notice the little blurb at the bottom about Ted's fielding as well.

[JamesWest]

Well somebody should have shot those pitchers then. Why would you set up the shift and then pitch him outside? Seems like you are asking for a double that way. I guess they were happy with a double instead of a homer to right.

That's exactly what I thought when I read that also. I couldn't understand why they would go outside, unless they were trying to waste pitches and missing.

[Ubiquitous]

After Teds blistering streak of going to left the Sporting News did a full page spread about it on June 30th 1948. This special I find to be amazing, blow you away great. If you don't read any of the other articles I post at least look at this one. It has tons of useful info. It has Teds daily line for the first 54 games of the 1941 and 1948 season. Which I find amazing in and of itself. Plus it has a blurb about Ty Cobb. Also this is where Ted says that the pitchers are pitching to him outside.

[JamesWest]

After Teds blistering streak of going to left the Sporting News did a full page spread about it on June 30th 1948. This special I find to be amazing, blow you away great. If you don't read any of the other articles I post at least look at this one. It has tons of useful info. It has Teds daily line for the first 54 games of the 1941 and 1948 season. Which I find amazing in and of itself. Plus it has a blurb about Ty Cobb. Also this is where Ted says that the pitchers are pitching to him outside.

Based on Tebbetts is saying, it doesn't sound to me like Williams was taking Cobb's advice. If he took Cobb's advice and changed his approach, he would probably ttrying to hit little little loopers into left. It sounds like his approach is the same, but maybe the pitchers were getting a little complacent or something and still giving him good pitches to hit. The only thing that may be different is that maybe williams is swinging at balls that are a little off the plate. Personally, I don't think that Williams would have listened much to Cobb, because their approaches seem alot different to me. From what I've read, Williams would probably listen to Rogers Hornsby or maybe Bill Terry before he would listen to Cobb.

The first time I read this article, I laughed when I saw the by-line. I doubt if Williams would have been willing to talk so much to a Boston writer.

[Ubiquitous]

From what I remember Williams idolized Cobb and were good friends until some dispute got between them. If I recall it was about hitters then and now. It could have been complacency but I doubt it. Afterall this is Ted Williams if you get complacent on him your manager as well as Ted is going to be on your behind.