Rogers Hornsby Thread

[Bench 5]

Bill Burgess notified me that the original Rogers Hornsby thread was accidentally deleted (not by Bill). Bill was able to find the old pages on a cache copy from Google.

Thanks to Bill's help, I am going to re-post all of the main content of the original thread. If anyone recalls posting anything that they want added, let me or Bill know, and we can send you the cache copy so that you can cut and paste it. Bill is going to add his posts and pictures soon.

In the meantime if you could hold off posting on here until I resore the original posts, that would be great.
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If you enjoy this photo gallery, you might also like our other ones, too.

Historical, Archival Photographs---Pre-1900---Negro L.---Vintage Panoramic Pictures---Members' Gallery---Runningshoes Presents: Photo Op---Meet The Sports Writers

Photos of the following individual players---Hank Aaron---Pete Alexander---Ty Cobb---Eddie Collins---Sam Crawford---Jimmy Foxx---Lou Gehrig---Rickey Henderson---Rogers Hornsby---Joe Jackson---Walter Johnson---Nap Lajoie---Connie Mack---John McGraw---Mickey Mantle---Christy Mathewson---Willie Mays---Mel Ott---Babe Ruth---George Sisler---Tris Speaker---Pie Traynor---Rube Waddell--- Honus Wagner---Ted Williams---Zack Wheat---Rare Ty Cobb ---Rare Babe Ruth---Bill's Babe Ruth---Rare Ted Williams---Bill's Rare Finds ---Babefan's Fantastic Vintage Baseball photos---GaryL's Boston Public Library Baseball Photo Project

We also have some very nice, attractive team photo collections---New York Yankees---New York Giants---Detroit Tigers---Pittsburgh Pirates---Brooklyn Dodgers

Rogers' Relative Stats:

Hornsby---Rel.BA------Rel.Onbase--------Rel.Slg.---------OPS+------Rel.ISO+
----------126.2 (9th)----127.4 (8th)-------147.3 (5th)-----175 (5th)----198.5 (13th)

Home/Away--BA----Slg.----onbase---HR----D-------T-----RBI------AB------BB
Home:-----.359---.589-----.437----164---266-----83-----681-----4,032----536
Away:-----.358---.565------.431-----137---275----86-----637-----4,141----502

Hitting Stats:
Hornsby, Cobb, Wagner, Ruth, Gehrig, T. Williams, Mantle, Mays, Aaron, DiMaggio, Speaker, Lajoie, Musial, Collins, Crawford, J. Jackson, Wheat, Roush, Foxx, Clemente, Schmidt, Yaz, Anson, Bonds, B. Williams, Kiner, Killebrew, Rose, Gwynn, Kaline, Greenberg, Waner, R. Jackson, Boggs, Gehringer, Brouthers, Delahanty, Simmons, Mize, Brett, F. Robinson, Ashburn, Sisler, Snider, Banks, Molitor, Keeler, Bench, Terry, Henderson.

Hornsby-----BA---Hits-2B---3B--HR----R--RBI--TB---OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league---8----4----4----2---2----5---4----7----9----9----0---3--12
2nd league---2----1----1----1---2----1---1----2----1----1----0---1---1
3rd----------1----1----1----1---3----0---2----0----1----1----0---0---0
4th----------1----3----4----0---1----2---0----0----0----1----0---2---0
5th----------0----0----0----0---5----0---0----0----0----1----0---0---0
6th----------0----0----0----1---1----0---1----1----1----0----0---2---1

Cobb--------BA--Hits-2B---3B---HR---R--RBI-TB---OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league--12---8----3----4----1---5---4---6----7----8----6---0--11
2nd-league---3---3----4----4----2---2---2---2----7----3----1---1---3
3rd----------1---3----4----2----2---2---1---2----0----3----2---0---1 
4th----------2---0----0----1----0---1---0---1----0----1----3---1---1
5th----------1---0----0----1----0---2---1---0----1----0----0---1---0
6th----------2---0----2----0----0---0---0---0----0----0----0---0---0

Wagner-------BA--Hits-2B---3B---HR---R--RBI--TB--OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league----8---2----7----3----0---2---5----7---4----6----5---0--6
2nd league----2---2----1----3----1---2---2----1---1----3----0---0--2
3rd-----------0---5----3----2----0---2---2----4---2----2----2---0--2
4th-----------2---3----0----0----1---2---3----2---1----1----0---1--1
5th-----------1---1----1----0----2---1---1----2---2----0----0---0--0
6th-----------1---0----0----1----2---0---1----0---0----1----0---1--0

Ruth---------BA---Hits-2B---3B---HR---R--RBI--TB---OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league----1----0----1----0---12---8---6----6----9---13----0--11--13
2nd league----2----0----1----0----2---1---2--- 3----2----1----0---1---1
3rd-----------2----0----1----0----1---0---0----2----1----1----0---1---2
4th-----------1----3----0----0----0---0---3----0----2----0----0---0---0
5th-----------1----0----0----0----0---1---0----0----0----0----0---0---0
6th-----------0----2----1----1----0---1---1----0----0----0----0---0---0

Gehrig------BA---Hits-2B---3B---HR--Runs--RBI--TB---OBA-SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
Led league---1----1----1----4----2----4----4----2----4----2---0---3--3
2nd league---2----3----0----0----4----2----4----3----2----4---0---2--6
3rd----------3----0----0----1----3----3----2----2----3----1---0---3--3
4th----------0----1----0----0----1----2----2----0----0----3---0---0--0
5th----------2----1----0----0----1----0----0----1----1----0---0---0--0
6th----------1----0----1----0----1----0----0----1----0----0---0---1--0			
							
Ted Williams--BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA--SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led league-----6----0----2---0---4---6----4----6---12---8---0---8--9
2nd in league--2----1----2---0---4---1----2----0----0---1---0---1--1
3rd------------1----2----0---0---2---1----1----4----0---1---0---2--3
4th------------1----1----2---0---0---1----1----0----0---2---0---0--0
5th------------0----4----0---0---0---0----1----0----0---0---0---1--0
6th------------0----0----0---0---3---0----0----0----1---0---0---1--0
												
Mickey Mantle--BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR---Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led league------1----1----0---1---4----6----1----3---3---4---0---5--8
2nd in league---1----0----1---0---3----2----3----4---5---0---0---3--3
3rd-------------1----0----0---0---2----1----1----2---1---2---0---2--1
4th-------------2----2----0---1---0----0----0----1---2---0---2---0--0	
5th-------------0----0----0---0---1----0----2----0---0---0---0---0--0
6th-------------0----0----0---1---0----1----3----0---1---1---0---1--0				

Willie Mays----BA---Hits-2B--3B---HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led league------1----1----0---3----4---2----0----3---2---5---4---1--6
2nd in league---3----1----1---1----1---5----2----5---1---3---0---1--1
3rd-------------2----1----1---1----3---3----3----5---2---2---0---2--5
4th-------------0----0----0---0----1---0----2----1---1---2---1---1--2
5th-------------1----1----0---0----2---0----1----1---5---4---0---1--0
6th-------------1----2----2---0----2---2----2----0---1---0---0---3--1	

Hank Aaron----BA--Hits-2B--3B--HR---Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led league-----2---2----4---0---4----3----4---8---0---4---0---0--3
2nd in league--0---3----2---2---4----1----0---2---2---5---1---1--4
3rd------------0---1----1---0---1----4----2---2---3---4---0---2--4
4th------------3---0----1---2---2----2----2---2---1---1---2---2--1
5th------------4---0----0---0---2----1----1---0---2---1---0---0--1
6th------------0---3----1---0---2----1----1---1---1---2---2---0--2	

Joe DiMaggio---BA--Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA--SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led league------2---0----0---1---2---1----2----3---0----2---0---0--1
2nd in league---0---1----1---0---0---2----3----2---0----5---0---0--4
3rd-------------2---1----0---4---1---0----3----1---2----0---0---0--2
4th-------------0---2----1---0---5---0----1----1---3----0---0---0--0
5th-------------0---0----0---0---2---2----1----2---0----0---0---0--1
6th-------------0---1----1---0---1---1----1----0---0----1---0---0--0

Tris Speaker--BA--Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led league-----1---2----8---0---1---0----0----1---4---1---0---0--1
2nd in league--2---1----3---1---2---4----1----3---3---2---0---1--4
3rd------------7---2----1---1---0---2----1----2---4---4---1---0--5	
4th------------2---4----0---0---2---2----2----3---3---4---1---4--3
5th------------1---2----0---0---0---0----0----1---1---2---3---2--3
6th------------1---0----1---1---0---2----0----0---0---1---1---3--0

Nap Lajoie---BA--Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs--RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led league----3---4----5---0---1----1----3---4---2---4---0---0--3
2nd in league-3---0----4---1---0----1----1---2---2---3---0---0--3
3rd-----------1---1----1---0---1----0----2---0---1---2---0---0--0
4th-----------1---1----1---0---0----1----1---2---1---0---0---0--1
5th-----------0---1----0---0---0----0----1---0---1---0---0---0--0
6th-----------3---1----0---0---2----0----1---0---0---2---1---0--4

Stan Musial-BA--Hits-2B---3B--HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
Led league---7---6----8----5---0---5----2----6---6---6----0---1--6
2nd league---2---3----3----1---1---4----0----2---7---3----0---0--4
3rd----------5---2----1----1---1---4----3----1---0---0----0---2--0
4th----------2---1----0----2---1---1----2----2---2---3----0---2--3
5th----------1---0----0----1---1---1----2----2---0---1----0---2--0
6th----------0---0----2----0---1---0----0----1---1---0----0---0--1

Ed Collins--BA--Hits-2B--3B---HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
Led League---0---0----0---0----0---3----0---0----0---0---4---1--0
2nd league---3---2----0---1----0---1----0---0----3---0---4---5--1
3rd----------0---1----0---0----0---2----1---1----7---1---2---2--2
4th----------5---1----1---0----0---2----0---0----2---0---2---2--2
5th----------2---3----0---1----0---0----1---3----2---1---1---1--3
6th----------1---1----0---2----0---1----0---1----1---2---1---1--0

Crawford----BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR---Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---0----0----1---6---2----1----3----2---0---0---0---0--0
2nd league---4----5----4---3---2----1----4----6---0---4---0---0--2
3rd----------1----4----0---3---2----0----2----2---0---3---0---0--4
4th----------2----0----1---0---1----1----2----1---2---1---0---0--3
5th----------0----2----0---0---3----2----1----2---2---2---0---0--0
6th----------1----0----2---3---1----0----2----1---1---0---1---0--1

J.Jackson---BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league---0----2----1---3---0---0----0---2---1----1----0---0--0
2nd league---3----2----2---1---0---1----0---2---2----3----0---0--3
3rd league---2----2----2---2---1---2----1---1---0----1----0---1--2
4th----------2----2----0---1---0---1----4---1---3----2----0---0--1
5th----------0----0----0---0---1---0----0---0---1----2----0---0--3
6th----------0----0----0---0---0---1----0---0---0----0----1---0--0

Z. Wheat----BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB---OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league---1----0----2---0---0---0----0---0----0----1----0---0--0
2nd league---1----3----2---0---0---0----0---0----0----0----0---0--1
3rd league---2----2----1---0---0---1----2---0----0----1----0---0--1
4th----------2----0----0---0---1---0----0---0----2----2----0---0--1
5th----------1----1----0---2---2---0----1---0----1----1----0---0--2
6th----------0----0----0---1---2---1----2---0----0----0----0---0--1

Edd Roush--BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league--2----0----1---1---1---0----0---1---0----1----0---0--1
2nd league--2----0----1---2---0---0----1---0---0----0----1---0--1
3rd league--1----3----0---3---0---0----1---0---1----1----0---0--2
4th---------1----1----0---1---1---0----0---1---1----1----1---0--1
5th---------1----1----0---0---0---2----0---1---1----0----0---0--0
6th---------0----1----0---0---0---0----1---2---1----1----1---0--1

J. Foxx-----BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG--SB--BB--OPS+
led league---2-----0---0---0---4---1----3---3---3---5----0---2--5
2nd league---2-----1---0---0---3---2----0---1---3---1----0---1--2
3rd league---1-----2---0---0---2---1----3---0---3---2----0---3--0
4th----------0-----0---0---0---3---2----2---3---0---1----0---4--3
5th----------1-----0---0---0---0---1----0---1---2---2----0---0--1
6th----------0-----0---0---0---0---1----2---1---0---1----0---0--0

Clemente----BA---Hits-2B--3B---HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---4----2----0---1----0---0----0----0---0---0---0---0--0
2nd league---2----1----1---1----0---0----2----1---1---0---0---0--1
3rd league---1----1----0---2----0---0----0----1---0---1---0---0--1
4th----------2----1----0---1----0---2----0----0---1---0---0---0--0
5th----------1----1----1---4----0---0----0----1---0---1---0---0--0
6th----------0----1----2---1----0---0----0----0---3---1---0---0--1

Schmidt-----BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league---0----0----0---0---8---1----4---3---3---5----0---4--6
2nd league---0----0----0---0---1---2----1---1---0---2----0---2--1
3rd league---0----0----0---0---2---6----4---0---0---2----0---3--2
4th----------1----0----0---0---1---0----0---1---3---3----0---3--1
5th----------0----0----0---0---0---0----0---4---1---0----0---0--1
6th----------0----0----0---0---1---1----0---0---0---0----0---1--0

Yaz----------BA---Hits-2B-3B--HR---Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league----3----2---3---0---1----3----1---2---5---3----0---2--4
2nd league----2----0---1---0---0----1----0---0---1---0----0---3--1
3rd league----0----0---2---1---1----1----1---0---1---0----0---1--0
4th-----------0----2---0---0---1----1----0---2---0---1----0---1--0
5th-----------0----1---0---0---0----1----1---0---0---0----0---2--0
6th-----------0----1---1---0---0----0----0---2---0---0----0---0--1

Anson-------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR---Runs--RBI-TB--OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league--2----1----3--0---0-----0----8---1---4----0----0---1---1
2nd league--5----4----2--1---0-----0----3---2---5----4----0---1---2
3rd league--2----2----2--0---4-----0----3---2---1----1----0---1---1
4th---------1----0----2--0---1-----2----0---2---1----3----0---2---3
5th---------2----3----0--1---1-----2----0---0---2----1----0---0---3
6th---------0----0----1--0---0-----4----0---3---3----0----0---2---1

Bonds------BA---Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
led league--2----0----0--0---2---1----1---1---8----7----0--10---9
2nd league--0----0----0--0---5---3----1---0---3----1----0---4---3
3rd league--1----0----0--0---1---6----0---1---0----1----1---1---2
4th---------1----0----0--0---4---0----4---0---2----3----1---0---0
5th---------0----0----0--0---0---1----0---3---1----1----2---0---1
6th---------0----0----0--2---0---3----2---1---0----1----2---0---0

B. Williams--BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league----1---1----0--0---0---1----0---3---0---1---0---0--1
2nd league----0---0----1--1---2---0----3---1---1---0---0---0--0
3rd league----0---3----3--1---3---0----0---1---0---2---0---0--1
4th-----------2---0----1--0---1---1----0---1---0---1---0---0--0
5th-----------0---1----0--1---0---2----0---1---0---0---0---0--0
6th-----------0---1----0--0---1---0----0---0---0---1---0---1--0

Kiner-------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---0---0----0--0---7---1----1---1---1---3---0---3--0
2nd league---0---0----0--0---0---0----3---2---0---0---0---3--0
3rd league---0---0----0--0---0---1----1---0---2---1---0---0--0
4th league---1---0----0--0---0---1----0---2---0---2---0---1--2
5th----------1---0----0--0---1---1----1---0---0---0---0---0--0
6th----------0---1----0--0---0---0----1---0---2---0---0---1--0

Killebrew---BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR---Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league---0---0----0--0---6----0----3---0---1---1---0---4---0
2nd league---0---0----0--0---2----1----2---2---1---3---0---1---1
3rd league---0---0----0--0---2----1----2---4---2---4---0---3---2
4th----------0---0----0--0---0----1----1---0---5---0---0---1---5
5th----------1---0----0--0---2----0----0---2---2---2---0---1---2
6th----------0---0----0--0---0----1----1---1---0---0---0---0---0

Rose--------BA-Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league---3---7---5--0---0---4----0---0---1---0---0---0---0
2nd league---2---5---2--2---0---3----0---1---1---0---0---0---0
3rd league---0---1---4--0---0---3----0---1---3---0---0---0---0
4th----------1---1---0--0---0---1----0---1---1---0---0---2---0
5th----------1---2---2--2---0---1----0---1---1---0---0---2---0
6th----------0---0---0--1---0---0----0---1---0---0---0---1---1

Gwynn------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR---Runs-RBI-TB---OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league--8---7----0--0---0----1----0---0----1---0---0---0--0
2nd league--1---0----1--3---0----0----0---0----2---0---1---0--0
3rd league--2---1----1--0---0----0----0---1----0---0---0---0--1
4th---------1---0----1--0---0----1----0---0----1---0---0---0--1
5th---------1---0----0--1---0----0----0---0----2---0---0---0--0
6th---------0---0----0--0---0----0----1---0----0---0---1---0--1

Kaline-----BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs--RBI-TB---OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league--1----1---1--0---0----0----0---1----0---1---0---0---1
2nd league--3----1---1--0---0----1----2---1----3---1---0---0---2
3rd league--2----1---1--0---0----0----0---0----2---1---0---0---1
4th---------1----1---0--1---0----0----0---2----0---1---1---0---1
5th---------0----0---2--1---0----1----1---0----2---1---0---1---0
6th---------0----1---1--1---0----1----1---1----0---1---1---1---0

Greenberg---BA---Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---0----0----2--0---4----1---4---2---0---1---0---2--0
2nd league---0----0----2--0---2----1---1---3---2---4---0---1--4
3rd league---0----0----1--1---0----1---1---1---2---2---0---0--1
4th----------0----1----0--0---0----1---1---0---0---0---0---0--2
5th----------1----1----0--1---0----0---0---1---0---0---0---0--0
6th----------1----1----0--0---0----0---0---0---0---0---0---3--0

Waner-------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league---3---2----2--2---0---2----1---1---0---0---0---0---0
2nd league---1---3----1--5---0---2----0---0---2---0---1---2---0
3rd league---0---1----1--0---0---0----0---1---2---1---0---1---1
4th----------3---1----2--1---0---1----0---2---1---2---0---1---4
5th----------1---0----0--0---0---0----0---3---1---2---0---0---0
6th----------0---2----1--0---0---1----0---1---2---0---0---0---1

R.Jackson----BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league----0---0----0--0---4----2---1---0---0---3---0---0---4
2nd league----0---0----3--0---3----0---0---3---0---2---0---1---1
3rd league----0---0----0--0---1----1---1---0---0---1---0---0---0
4th-----------0---0----0--0---1----0---1---1---1---0---0---1---1
5th-----------0---0----1--0---2----2---0---0---1---2---0---1---1
6th-----------0---0----0--0---0----0---3---0---2---1---0---0---1

Boggs--------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---5----1----2--0---0---2----0---0---6---0---0---1--1
2nd league---1----5----3--0---0---0----0---0---1---0---0---0--2
3rd league---2----0----2--0---0---1----0---0---1---1---0---3--0
4th----------1----2----1--0---0---0----0---1---1---0---0---0--2
5th----------2----0----0--0---0---1----0---1---0---0---0---2--0
6th----------0----0----0--0---0---1----0---0---1---0---0---0--1

Gehringer---BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR---Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---1---2----2--1---0----2----0---0---0---0---1---0--0
2nd league---1---2----2--1---0----1----0---0---2---0---1---0--0
3rd league---0---0----1--1---0----3----0---0---0---0---0---1--0
4th----------1---0----2--0---0----1----0---2---1---0---0---1--0
5th----------2---3----0--1---0----2----1---0---1---0---0---2--0
6th----------0---0----0--0---0----0----0---4---1---0---0---1--1

Brouthers----BA--Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league----5---3----3---1---2----2---2---4---5---7---0---0--8
2nd league----1---2----2---4---1----0---2---2---5---3---0---0--1
3rd league----2---1----1---2---2----1---1---1---0---0---0---0--2
4th-----------1---1----2---1---0----0---1---1---1---0---0---2--0
5th-----------1---2----0---1---2----1---1---0---1---0---0---0--0
6th-----------0---0----1---0---0----0---1---3---0---0---0---0--0

Delahanty----BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league----1---1----5--1---2---0----3---2---2---5---1---0--4
2nd league----3---1----3--0---0---0----2---2---1---2---0---0--3
3rd league----2---1----2--2---1---1----1---2---2---1---0---0--1
4th-----------2---2----1--0---2---1----0---1---0---1---0---2--1
5th-----------0---1----0--0---1---2----1---0---2---1---0---0--1
6th-----------2---0----0--2---0---0----0---0---0---0---0---2--1

Mize---------BA-Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league----1---0---1--1---4---1----3---3---0---4---0---0---2
2nd league----2---0---1--0---2---1----1---4---2---3---0---0---5
3rd league----0---3---1--2---1---2----3---0---1---2---0---2---2
4th-----------0---0---0--0---1---0----0---0---1---0---0---0---0
5th-----------3---1---0--1---1---1----1---0---2---0---0---1---0
6th-----------0---2---0--0---0---1----0---0---0---0---0---1---0

Brett-------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league---3---3----2--3---0----0---0---1---3---3---0---0---3
2nd league---2---0----2--1---0----1---1---2---1---0---0---0---0
3rd league---0---0----2--0---0----1---0---0---1---0---0---1---0
4th----------0---0----1--1---0----1---0---1---1---1---0---0---0
5th----------0---1----1--1---0----1---1---1---0---1---0---0---2
6th----------2---0----0--2---0----0---1---0---1---2---0---0---0

F.Robinson---BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league----1---0----1--0---1----3---1---1---2---4---0---0--4
2nd league----2---2----0--0---2----2---4---1---6---1---0---1--1
3rd league----1---1----3--1---3----0---2---1---0---0---1---1--1
4th-----------1---0----1--0---3----1---0---3---3---5---1---2--1
5th-----------1---0----0--0---2----2---1---0---0---1---0---1--7
6th-----------2---1----2--0---1----1---0---1---0---1---1---0--1

Ashburn-----BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league---2---3----0--2---0---0----0---0---4---0---1---4---0
2nd league---2---1----0--0---0---0----0---0---0---0---2---2---0
3rd league---0---0----0--0---0---0----0---0---1---0---0---1---0
4th----------0---0----1--1---0---1----0---0---1---0---1---0---0
5th----------0---1----1--3---0---2----0---0---1---0---2---1---1
6th----------2---3----0--0---0---2----0---0---0---0---2---1---0

Sisler-------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league----2---2----0--2---0---1----0---2---0---0---4---0--0
2nd league----1---1----1--2---2---2----1---1---1---2---2---0--1
3rd league----2---3----1--1---0---0----0---1---1---0---0---0--2
4th-----------2---3----1--0---0---1----1---1---0---2---0---0--1
5th-----------0---0----0--0---0---0----0---3---1---2---1---0--1
6th-----------0---0----0--0---0---0----2---0---1---0---1---0--1

Snider------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB--OPS+
led league---0----1---0--0---1----3---1---3---1---2---0---1---1
2nd league---0----1---2--0---1----1---1---1---1---2---0---0---1
3rd league---2----1---2--2---1----0---1---0---2---0---0---1---2
4th----------1----0---0--0---1----1---1---0---0---1---0---1---0
5th----------1----0---0--0---0----0---0---3---0---1---1---1---0
6th----------0----0---0--0---1----1---1---0---0---1---1---1---1

Simmons-----BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---2---2----0--0---0----1---1---2---0---0---0---0--0
2nd league---2---0----2--0---1----2---2---2---0---3---0---0--0
3rd league---1---3----0--0---2----0---2---1---0---3---0---0--2
4th----------3---3----0--0---1----0---1---1---0---0---0---0--1
5th----------0---0----0--0---3----0---2---1---0---2---0---0--1
6th----------0---0----0--1---1----0---1---0---1---0---0---0--1

Banks--------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league----0---0----0--0---2---0----2---1---0---1---0---0--0
2nd league----0---0----0--1---2---2----0---1---0---1---0---0--1
3rd league----0---0----0--0---2---0----2---3---0---0---0---0--0
4th-----------0---1----1--0---1---0----1---0---0---1---0---0--1
5th-----------0---0----1--1---0---0----1---0---0---2---0---0--2
6th-----------1---0----0--0---1---0----1---1---0---0---0---0--0

Bench------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league--0---0----0--0---2---0----3---1---0---0---0---0--0
2nd league--0---0----1--0---1---1----1---1---0---0---0---0--1
3rd league--0---0----2--0---0---0----1---1---0---2---0---1--0
4th---------0---0----0--0---1---0----0---0---0---2---0---0--0
5th---------0---0----0--0---0---0----0---0---0---1---0---0--0
6th---------0---0----1--0---0---0----0---0---0---0---0---0--0

Molitor-----BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league---0---3----1--1---0---3----0---0---0---0---0---0--0
2nd league---2---1----0--1---0---1----0---0---1---0---0---0--0
3rd league---1---2----0--0---0---0----0---0---0---0---1---0--1
4th----------1---2----0--0---0---1----0---1---0---0---2---0--0
5th----------2---1----0--0---0---0----0---0---0---1---0---0--0
6th----------3---0----0--0---0---0----0---0---0---0---2---0--1

Terry--------BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league----1---1----0--1---0---1----0---0---0---0---0---0--0
2nd league----3---3----0--0---0---1----0---2---0---0---0---0--0
3rd league----0---1----1--1---1---0----1---0---0---1---0---0--0
4th-----------2---1----0--2---1---0----0---2---1---0---0---0--2
5th-----------0---0----1--1---0---0----2---0---2---1---0---0--1
6th-----------1---0----0--0---0---2----1---0---0---0---0---0--0

Keeler-----BA---Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
led league--2----3----0--0---0----1---0---0---0---0---0---0--0
2nd league--2----5----0--0---0----5---0---1---1---1---0---0--1
3rd league--1----1----0--0---0----1---0---1---2---0---0---0--0
4th---------3----2----0--1---0----1---0---1---0---0---1---0--1
5th---------1----1----0--0---0----1---0---1---0---0---1---0--0
6th---------1----0----0--1---0----1---0---2---1---0---0---0--0

Henderson----BA--Hits-2B-3B--HR--Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG--SB-BB--OPS+
led league----0---1----0--0---0----5---0---0---1---0---12--4---1
2nd league----1---0----0--1---0----1---0---0---2---1----0--2---1
3rd league----0---0----0--0---0----1---0---0---6---0----0--1---0
4th-----------2---0----0--0---0----3---0---0---1---0----2--5---0
5th-----------0---0----0--0---0----1---0---0---2---0----1--0---0
6th-----------0---0----0--0---1----0---0---1---1---0----2--1---0

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are the results of our 1st. 2B poll, conducted by leecemark, November 5, 2004, 10:37 PM

The final tally for the secondbase man voting:

1. Rogers Hornsby 140
2. Eddie Collins 133
3. Joe Morgan 110
4. Nap Lajoie 107
5. Charlie Gehringer 73
6. Jackie Robinson 70
7. Frankie Frisch 39
8. Ryne Sandberg 37
9. Roberto Alomar 25
10. Craig Biggio 23
Others receiving more than one vote; Joe Gordon, Bobby Grich and Rod Carew.
------------------------------------------------
Here are the results of our 2nd. poll, conducted by 538280, November 7, 2005, 04:04 AM

The results are now in. In a very close poll, Rogers Hornsby retains his spot as the BBF #1 second basemen. He received a very close push from Eddie Collins and Joe Morgan. Here are the final results out of the 17 ballots submitted (first place votes in parenthesis):

Rogers Hornsby-165 (8)
Eddie Collins-161 (4)
Joe Morgan-146 (4)
Nap Lajoie-122
Charlie Gehringer-92 (1)
Jackie Robinson-89
Craig Biggio-54
Roberto Alomar-43
Rod Carew-33
Ryne Sandberg-31
Frankie Frisch-22

No one else received more than 20 points.
---------------------------------------
Here are the results of our 3rd. poll, conducted by Bill Burgess, May 4, 2007, 11:07 AM

I left out natsnsoxfan's ballot, because he didn't put them in order. Adding it all up, I have:

1. Rogers Hornsby - 225
2. Eddie Collins - 205
3. Joe Morgan - 195
4. Nap Lajoie - 171
5. Jackie Robinson - 113
6. Charlie Gehringer - 97
7. Craig Biggio - 70
8. Roberto Alomar - 57
9. Rod Carew - 41
10. Ryne Sandberg - 39
11. Jeff Kent - 20
12. Frankie Frisch - 16
13. Nellie Fox - 4
14. Bobby Grich - 3
15t. Lou Whitaker - 2
15t. Bid McPhee - 2
15t. Joe Gordon - 2
18. Billy Herman - 1
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greatest Hitter series, conducted by Bill Burgess, ending November 4, 2007, 08:05 AM

1. Babe Ruth---------68 votes - 95.77%
1. Ted Williams-------68 - 95.77%
3. Ty Cobb-----------52 - 73.24%
4. Rogers Hornsby----36 - 50.70%
5. Lou Gehrig---------32 - 45.07%
6. Barry Bonds
7. Mickey Mantle
8. Stan Musial
9. Hank Aaron
10. Willie Mays
11. Jimmy Foxx
12. Honus Wagner
13. Frank Thomas
14. Tris Speaker
15. Frank Robinson
16. Joe DiMaggio
17. Joe Jackson
18. Josh Gibson
19. Nap Lajoie
20. Mel Ott
21. Oscar Charleston
22. Alexander Rodriguez
23. Dan Brouthers
24. Mike Schmidt
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I date all my baseball photos using the following book. (Baseball Uniforms of the 20th Century: The Official ML BB Guide, Researched, Illustrated & Written by Marc Okkonen, 1991, 1993)

Also, the following website, hostd by the Hall of Fame, mainly using the same book above, but also using images after 1993, has assisted me in dating some of the photos. http://exhibits.baseballhalloffame.o...e.htm#database

On this photographic gallery, I have attempted, using the book above, to date all the photos. If I caption a photo with the following, John Smith, Cubs OF, 1910-13, that means that the photo was taken sometime between 1910-13, when the player was on the Cubs. It does NOT mean that the player was only on the Cubs in that time frame. He might have been on the Cubs from 1900-18, but the photo was only taken between 1910-13.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Top, Right: The St. Louis Cardinals: The Story of a Great Baseball Club, by Fred Lieb, 1945, pp. 58.

Rogers Hornsby, Giants' 2B, March 23, 1927, Spring Training, Sarasota, FL, Roger Bresnahan is in the background----BB-Reference


---------------------------------May 12, 1921---------------------------------------------------1918-19


-----------------------------Before game 2 of the 1926 World Series-------------------------------1925-26


-------------------Cardinals' 2B, May 12, 1921, Polo Grounds---------------------------------1920, studio shot with canvass backdrop


------Cardinals' SS, July 7, 1917, Polo Grounds


--------Cardinals' SS, July 7, 1917, Polo Grounds-----------Giants' 2B, 1927--------------------------------1920


---------------Giants, 1927---------------------February 25, 1927, Sarasota, FL, Spring Training, Jack Bentley---BB Reference---Hornsby on video


-----------March 13, 1927, Spring Training, with the Giants


March 19, 1936, With the Browns Spring Training, West Palm B., FL

[Bench 5]

One of the other threads got me interested in looking more closely at the career of Rogers Hornsby. Growing up he was often acclaimed as the greatest right handed hitter of all time. His statistics are staggering by any account. I am going to make a few posts regarding his abilities and some of the events in his life based upon some articles that I found in ProQuest. His numbers are easily accessible to everyone but hopefully this will provide some background on him as a player, manager and person. I am certainly not an expert on his life but curiosity got the best of me and I’ve read or skimmed a few hundred articles regarding his career.

According to Bill James, Hornsby is a “horse’s ass”. After reading all of the contemporary articles about him, all I can say is that he is a very interesting guy. I can't say that I agree with his ascertation. Rajah had his problems: accidentally hit someone with his car, investigated for numerous horse-racing gambling incidents, sued by gamblers for welshing on bets, cheated on his wife, fought with owners, fired a few times, and he was considered a hard-ass manager.

But for all of the negatives, there were many baseball men that had nothing but praise for Hornsby as an individual. Compared to some of his contemporaries he wasn’t a violent man. He was active in baseball and found employment in baseball for most of his career. Upon further review, I don’t think he is that bad of a guy. Since some of the articles are long, I am going to post them in several threads.

----------Cubs, 1929-32


-----------------Giants', 1927-------------------------Giants', 1927---BB Reference---Hornsby on video


------------Giants, 1927


Source: Top, Left: The Image of Their Greatness, by Donald Honig, 1992, pp. 99.
Source: Bottom, Right: Saturday Evening Post, June 22, 1929, pp. 42.




Source: Baseball's Golden Age: The Photographs of Charles M. Conlon, edited by Neil McCabe/Constance McCabe, 1993, pp. 68.

------------------------------------1924


Source: Below, Left: Cardinals Collection: 100 Years of St. Louis Cardinals Images, by Mark Stang, 2002, pp. 22.
Source: Below, Right: Cardinals Collection: 100 Years of St. Louis Cardinals Images, by Mark Stang, 2002, pp. 19.

1918: Robison Field-------------------------------------------------------------1917


Source: Left: The Game That Was: The George Brace Baseball Photo Collection, by Richard Cahan/Mark Jacob, 1996, pp. 24.
Source: Right: The Great Baseball Players: McGraw to Mantle: by Bert Randolph Sugar, 1997, pp. 46.


Source: Reds in Black & White: 100 Years of Cincinnati Reds Images, by Greg Rhodes/Mark Stang, 1999, pp. 132.

Source: Cardinals Collection: 100 Years of St. Louis Cardinals Images, by Mark Stang, 2002, pp. 39.

1926 World Series: L-R: Sam Breadon, family friend, Mrs. Breadon, Mrs. Mary Jeannette (Pennington)(Hine) Hornsby, Rogers Hornsby.

[Bench 5]

Here are some articles that provide subjective feedback on Hornsby's defense and running ability.

Chicago Daily Tribune, April 10, 1930
Writer Irwin Howe used his 42 years watching baseball as the basis for his pick of Eddie Collins as his all-time greatest 2nd basemen. He writes:

“Larry Lajoie was not only a better hitter than Collins, he was also a better fielder, probably the best that ever played second base. Rogers Hornsby is certainly a far greater slugger than Collins ever was and of the old-timers Fred Dunlap, Fred Pfeffer, and Biddy McPhee outranked Cocky in some particulars. None of these great performers were Eddie’s equal all around. He could hit better than most of them, run bases faster, and with better judgement than any, field fairly well, and excepting Pfeffer, was a minute ahead of all of them in thinking. “

On Hornby’s Speed:
Atlanta Constitution, August 14, 1928 – by Grantland Rice:
“In baseball there are sprinters who can barely steal a base. There are much slower men who can steal 25 or 30 bases a year. Hornsby is one of the fastest men in baseball – but he won’t average eight steals in a season. "

Boston Daily Globe, August 13, 1922
Quote by Branch Rickey:
“One of the very greatest players in the history of baseball is Rogers Hornsby. He started as the bottom – not a rich son – instead very poor. He has a wonderful mother – and he shows it. She has great pride in her son’s success, and she is justified in her views. His first contract in baseball called for $100 per month. He is 26 years old and he is the highest salaried player in the National League – and rightly so.

Roger’s Hornsby is an athlete and a gentleman. Without being both he could not have done what he has. The baseball public knows the super excellence of his work afield. I also know him off the field. If he is going to be out of the hotel, say after 11:30, h speaks to me about the reasons for it ahead of time-although his whereabouts need give his manager, his friends, or his family no serious concern. He is disciplined, on and off the field, and has always been his own disciplinarian.

The most marked characteristic of Rogers is his one modesty-about everything. Singularly, that other fellow George Sisler is just like that, too – he never seeks publicity-of source. Wee, he doesn’t. He is given great and deserved credit for his hitting. A book could be written about it. Some day, some one, some where is going to awaken to the fact that he is the greatest fielding second baseman in the game. For his is just that.

May I add that the Cardinal Club believes him to be the fastest runner at 100 yards in the major leagues and anything the Cardinals believe is usually true.

Hornsby is a team in himself. He is not the only player on the Cardinals club by any means. But any team with Rogers Hornsby in the lineup could win a game now and then from the most carefully selected team of stars. All in all as you gather from what I have been saying, I rather like him.”

Chicago Daily Tribune, August 19, 1928
Veteran baseball writer Irving Vaughan picks Hornsby as his top 2nd baseman in the game:

“Picking Hornsby for the mythical second base honors is mainly a matter between him and Frankie Frisch of the Cardinals. Frisch probably is the more spectacular fielder and over the stretch of games probably would show greater skill in covering ground to either side. However, it must be remembered that the actions of the men are so different as to be deceiving. Frisch advertises himself but his gymnastics around second also on the base lines. There is none of that “show” about Hornsby. He is not of that type. He does a lot of things with one hand that Frisch can accomplish only by the dive in the dirt.

If fielding alone could be the means of selecting a man for the job, Frisch in the minds of many baseball men, might even run second to Hughey Critz of the Reds. Critz is a finished fielder with baseball intuition, but does not carry a “punch” in his bat. McGraw rates him the outstanding defensive second baseman of recent years. McGraw is not far wrong although his judgment may be influenced by the fact that he couldn’t afford to praise Frisch and Hornsby too highly after having passed them along to other teams.

Mention of Lajoie reminds one that there is much of his fielding ease and nonchalance in Hornsby.”

Other accounts

• A couple articles in early 1929 regarding the trade of Hornsby to the Cubs indicate that Freddie Maguire was considered a better defensive player than Hornsby.
  
• An article in 1930 states that it was known that Hornsby was “not the best fielder in the world” as common knowledge.

From Cobb to Catfish" that was published in 1975. It has a nice article condensed from a book by Tom Meany called "Baseball's Greatest Hitters".

"Hornsby was a perfectly coordinated athlete. He had long, loose arms and sure hands and was a strong thrower. He always maintained that his fielding would have been good enough to keep him in the major leagues even if he had only been an ordinary hitter. Rog's batting was so sensational that his fielding skill, which he maintained even when he shifted from short to second, was overlooked. Hornsby had only one fault as a fielder - he had trouble with pop flies. He had one of the great double play arms of any second baseman in history, throwing straight across his chest with no perceptible shifting of his feet."


Health Habits
I found a couple articles in the winter of 1931 and 1932 that state that Hornsby worked out in the winter at a gymnasium to get in shape before spring training. Earlier articles state that he was a diligent worker and practiced twice a day. He often slept 10-12 hours a day, refrained from drinking or smoking, drank a lot of milk and ate a lot of steak.


October 4, 1928: Wife/Rogers, when he was a Boston Brave.


September 27, 1926, Hotel Almanac-----------------Same photo session w/ his wife.



-----------With Miller Huggins, September 30, 1926--------------------------------------------------------September 30, 1926


--------------------------------------------Cardinals', 1926


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Manager of Cincinnati Reds' 1952-53.

[Bench 5]

The first time that I read much negative feedback on Hornsby was when I read Bill James take on him in James’ “New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract”. James mentions a few times in the book that he dislikes Hornsby. Although he claims that he doesn’t base his ratings based upon his feelings for his top 3 2nd basemen, he rates Hornsby 3rd despite the fact that Hornsby has 3 of the top 8 seasons and the highest average win shares per 162 games. His average per 162 is 15% higher than James number 1 2nd baseman (Joe Morgan) and 9.4% higher than his #2 (Eddie Collins). I like Bill James but I decided to investigate some of the comments that he made about Hornsby using contemporary accounts via ProQuest.

James disparages Hornsby with some of the following comments:

Death of Hornsby’s Mother
Bill James: “Roger’s Hornsby’s mother died October 2, 1926, which was the day off between the end of the regular 1926 season and the beginning of the 1926 World Series. Hornsby remained with the team, electing not to attend his mother’s funeral. “Some thought that it was heartless, lacking in the finer sentiments,” wrote Fred Lieb. “But it was just like Rogers Hornsby…..”

Correction - Not a major issue but James has her actual date of death wrong. It was 9/29/26 rather than 10/2/26 as James states.

Contemporary transcripts from the newspapers regarding Hornsby’s relationship with his mother:

Boston Daily Globe, August 13, 1922 - 4 years before she died
“We already knew the boy (Hornsby) was likeable. At Braves Filed earlier in the day we had discussed Hornsby with a Boston business man, recently returned from Fort Worth, where Rogers makes his home and where he is idolized. This man, in conversation with one of Hornsby’s admirers in Fort Worth, remarked that he knew Rogers personally and that he made it a point to see him and talk with him every time the club came to Boston.. The conversation was overheard by a lady in the lobby of the hotel, who immediately introduced herself as Rogers’ mother, and said that she was glad to meet anyone who was interested in her boy. “He is the finest son that the Good Lord ever gave to a mother,” she said. Then she told how, at the end of last season, he had come home and handed her a check for $5,000, saying: “That is for you, mother.” The year before he had given her a check for $2,500. Rogers has a wife and one child, but he did not forget his mother. “

Washington Post, September 12, 1926 (17 days before the death of his mother).
“The Cardinals have no more loyal follower and supporter in their drive for the National League pennant than the occupant of an invalid bed in Austin. The invalid is Mrs. M.D. Hornsby, 63, mother of Rogers Hornsby, the pilot who has entrenched the Cards in first place. Bedridden for years, her one goal is to gain sufficient strength to attend the world series, in which she is sure Rogers will take part. “My sister can’t rest until she has learned the outcome of each day’s game.” Mrs. P.C. Schaeffer said today. “Victory brightens her life as nothing else.” Usually the Cardinal manager telegraphs the results and high lights of each game.”

Washington Post September 29, 1926- Mother Dying
"Hope that she may live until after the world’s series baseball games is sustaining Mrs. M.D. Hornsby, aged mother of the pennant winning St. Louis Cardinals, who will lead his club against the New York Yankees for the world’s title. Mrs. Hornsby is seriously ill at the home of her sister here following a relapse yesterday. She has predicted her son’s club will win. "

Atlanta Constitution September 30, 1926 - Decision to Play
“Grief stricken over the death of his mother, Rogers Hornsby, manager of the St. Louis Cardinals, has decided that duty demands that he remain in New York and lead his club into the world’s series next Saturday. After spending several hours alone, Hornsby, whose first inclination had been to hurry to his home in Austin, Texas, announced at his headquarters Wednesday night that he would stay with the club that will have such vital need of his leadership during the series with the New York Yankees.

“As it was my mother’s dying request that I remain with the team until after the series,” Hornsby said Wednesday night, “as hard as it will be for me, I have decided to carry out her wishes. My family also has requested me to carry out her wishes and promised that her remains will be kept until after the series.“

Thus was reached one of the most dramatic and heart-stirring decisions ever required of a baseball player on the eve of his entry into the climactic series of the season. Torn with doubt as to which course to pursue, the St. Louis manager finally made up his mind and came from the room to tell his club that he would remain at the helm. An aunt, Mrs. Knox T. Johnson who was at his mother’s bedside when death came, talked with Hornsby by telephone and repeated to him the dying wish that he remain with his club. “

New York Times, October 14, 1926 - Mother's Burial“In a small graveyard tucked away in the bend of the Colorado River tender hands today laid to rest Mrs. M.O. Hornsby, mother of Rogers Hornsby, manager of the world’s champion St. louis Cardinals. She died here September 29, her last wish being that Rogers should stay with the Cardinals and lead them against the Yankees in the world’s series. He consented to this only after relatives had agreed to defer the funeral services until the conclusion of the baseball classis. At the brief services at the grave Hornsby gave way to his grief. Tears streamed down his face and the hands which for six years swung the most feared bat in the National League trembled. With the Cardinals manager were his brother, Everett, of Tulsa, Okla., and his sister, Mrs. Maggie Mellown of Forth Worth, Texas.”


My Comments – The quotes used by Fred Leib portray Hornsby as a cold-hearted man that doesn’t even care for his own mother. That’s clearly not the case here. By the accounts given in the papers he mother spoke glowingly oh her son and he was in close contact with her until the day she died. Over the years, it’s not uncommon for athletes to decide to play in the “big game” rather than visit dying family members. That must have been an agonizing decision. I think that using this to show him in a bad light was a cheap shot.

The Rajah and The Babe: Some nice shots.

----------------------------------------April 7, 1922--------------------------------------------------------------- 1920.


October 6, 1926, World Series, Sportsman's Park----October 2, 1926, WS, Yankee Stadium


October 9, 1926, World Series, Yankee Stadium. With Kirk Miller,------------------------------------------------------------October 8, 1926, World Series; with J.A. Hillerich,
presenting the Babe Ruth All-American certificate to Rogers.------------------------------------------------------------------- representative of the bat company.


October 2, 1926 before World Series. Hornsby's wife, Mary, in the background. Holding Christy Walsh, Jr.---------------October 9, 1926, World Series, Yankee Stadium. With Kirk Miller, presenting the Babe Ruth All-American certificate to Rogers..


October 2, 1926 before World Series. Holding Christy Walsh, Jr.

[Bench 5]

Bill Veeck versus Rogers Hornsby
Bill James quotes Bill Veeck as a source to denigrate Hornsby’s character:
“When Bill Veeck fired Rogers Hornsby in 1952, Roy Stockton wrote in defense of Hornsby that Rogers wanted to win so badly that he was a sourpuss about it. Veeck replied saying that saying that Hornsby was a sourpuss was like saying that Attila the Hun needed to work on his table manners. “

Contemporary Accounts
LA Times July 13, 1951- One of many articles leading up to the hiring of Rajah that showed that Veeck courted Hornsby
"Rogers Hornsby, one of baseball’s all-time greats and now manager of Seattle of the Pacific Coast League is under consideration for managing the St. Louis Browns, Owner Bill Veeck said today. “He’s one of the best in the country,” Veeck told a Kiwanis Club meeting, “but it’s not easy to get a manager away from a good club – and if the club isn’t tops, it’s manager probably isn’t either.”"

Chicago Daily Tribune, June 11, 1952- Reports that Hornsby was Fired
"Rogers Hornsby’s farewell address today was brief but pointed, “When you work for a screwball, you have to expect screwball tactics,” he said as he headed for the East Boston airport, with another managerial job shot from under him, two hours after the announcement that Bill Veeck had fired him as manager of the St. Louis Browns.

By coincidence, Veeck’s late father fired Hornsby 20 years ago in a hotel a quarter of a mile from the Kenmore hotel, scene of today’s ejection. The senior Veeck at the time headed the Chicago Cubs who went on to win the pennant under Charlie Grimm, Hornsby’s successor and now manager of the Boston Braves.

The firing was not a complete surprise to Hornsby. He had his bag packed, at least he hadn’t unpacked it completely while awaiting the arrival this morning of Veeck. They previously had wrangled about many minor items, including Hornsby’s failure to announce he was protesting a decision in the first game of a Sunday double header in New York.

Hornsby today blamed the New York incident for his loss of the Browns job but Veeck said that causes had been accumulating since the opening day of spring training. “I blew this one,” said Veeck, “by hiring him in the first place. I have known him since I was a child but I though that he had mellowed. He hasn’t. He’s grown worse in recent years, I now find out. The mistake is mine. He will be paid off on the remainder of his contract, which will cost us in the neighborhood of $50,000 to $70,000 but I had to make the move before he wrecked us.”

“Rog’s problem and the one that was hurting us most”, said Veeck, “is player relations. He didn’t give a damn about the players. I believe that a team has to be happy to do it’s best. Under Hornsby, the players were tense and nervous. Against New York they were so tightened up they couldn’t give their best and as long as this situation held, we were going nowhere. I saw the team at home every day and I noticed things. I knew that Hornsby wasn’t bothering to speak to some of the players. None of the players came to me. This isn’t another Cleveland “cry baby” case. I saw enough things and found out some more on my own to realize we weren’t going anywhere unless I got a new manager. It’s better to have 25 players and no manager than just a manager. Baseball is a team game. Things must be amicable and they weren’t. I called Rogers Sunday and he said to me ‘maybe you don’t like my managing’ and I said I didn’t – that I’d come to Boston to talk with him. It’s something I had to do and I’d do it again – if it was my sainted mother.”

Hornsby charged Veeck with interfering with the operation of the team. “That New York deal did it.” The incident in New York revolved around a pop foul near the stands which 3rd baseman Gil McDougald of the Yankees dropped. The batter however was called out by Umpire Joe Passarella because of alleged interference by a spectator. Hornsby protested in vain. Veeck listening by radio in New York immediately called Durney top order a game protest filed. Hornsby said that this was interference with his job. Hornsby and Veeck met today as the Browns were preparing for a night game with the Red Sox and deposed pilot said: “we agreed to disagree.” He said he reminded Veeck that “you came to me; I didn’t come to you.”

Of his work with the Brownies: “I think I’ve done well with the ball club. We got off to a good start in the spring as I promised and nobody is going to tell me how to run a ball club. He wished his successor Marty Marion luck."

NY Times, June 11, 1952 - Trophy Supposedly Given to Veeck by Players after Firing Hornsby
"The Browns players presented to Bill Veeck a twenty four inch silver trophy tonight a few hours after Veeck dropped Rogers Hornsby as the Brown’s manager. The trophy surmounted by a batter swinging a bat bore the inscription: “To Bill Veeck for the greatest play since the Emancipation Proclamation, June 10, 1952. From the players of the St. Louis Browns.” The presentation was made by Ned Garver, the Brown’s star pitcher. "

Washington Post, June 26, 1952
The Rogers Hornsby-Bill Veeck feud broke out anew here today. This time it was Hornsby, whom Veeck fired as manager two weeks ago, doing the swinging.

“You baseball writers ought to get that guy out of baseball,” snorted the blunt Horsnby. “Baseball was a good game before he got into it and it will be damn better sight off when he’s out of it. He belongs in a circus and not as the main attraction either. If there was ever any dissension on the Browns as Veeck claimed there was, he was responsible for it, not the players. Just because we weren’t going so well, he decided he had to get into the act like he could help out. In one way, I’m glad he canned me but in another way I’m not. It had to happen, but I was trying awfully hard to make good after coming back into the major leagues. He solicited me. I didn’t ask for the job. I was in baseball before he ever was, and I’ll be in baseball when he’s washed up, remember that.”

What about the trophy incident?
“The players didn’t have a damn thing to do with it. That was strictly a bush league trick from a bush league guy. I told him at the time, too. I also told him I got a few trophies in my life, but I never had to go out and buy one for myself like he did. I earned all of mine.”

“He ought to put on a uniform and get on the field and manager instead of trying to do it by telephone. I told him when I took the job he can manage everything connected with the club except the ball team. But he wanted to be the whole show. Well he’s got it now and from the looks of things, he isn’t doing such a helluva’ job with it.”"

Washington Post, June 14, 1952
"American sports columnist Austen Lake said today that Bill Veeck, owner of the St. Louis Browns, ordered his club secretary to buy the “loving cup” which was presented to Veeck after he fired Rogers Hornsby as manager. Lake wrote that Veeck ordered Bill Durney to hustle downtown and buy the 16 inch cup (price $71.45) and get a rush job of engraving which read:”To Bill Veeck from the St. Louis Browns players for the greatest play since the Emancipation Act.”

Lake’s column added: “Does Veeck explain? Sure. He says it was Durney’s idea…But the bill was invoiced to the Browns’ Baseball Co. and paid by a club check.”

My Comments
This was quite a messy divorce. I have to admit that I was entertained by the series of exchanges. Veeck’s actions were in very bad taste and unprofessional. Hornsby fired back and took some shots at Veeck but the trophy incident has to be one of the all-time cheap stunts of all time. I think James should consider the source when he quotes Bill Veeck on Rogers Hornsby.



shaking with Miller Huggins, September 30, 1926 World Series.

[Bench 5]

“Horse’s Ass” and the Fight with Fletcher

Bill James closes up his remarks about Hornsby’s character with the following:
“If a contest is ever held to determine the biggest horse’s ass in baseball history, there are really only seven men, four of them players, who could hope to compete at that level. The four players are Hornsby, Ty Cobb, Dick Allen, and Hal Chase. I think I might choose Hornsby. My favorite Hornsby story: in 1925 Hornsby was on the field arguing loudly witrh Art Fletcher when all of a sudden without warning he punched Fletcher in the face. Later a reporter asked him why he had hit Fletcher. “Well, replied Hornsby very seriously. “ I wasn’t making any progress trying to talk to him. “”

Contemporary account of the fight at the time it happened:

From Washington Post June 18, 1925
“Manager Rogers Hornsby of the St. Louis Cardinals will be fined $100 and Manager Art Fletcher of the Phillies, $50 for their dispute in yesterday’s game, President John A. Heydler of the National League announced late today. Heydler said that in refraining from imposing a suspension he had kept in mind Hornsby’s previous excellent record for peacefulness, as the heat of the day was not conducive to good temper. “In the entire history of Hornsby’s National Lague service, this is the very first time that such an incident has developed,” Heydler said. “He is one of the best behaved men in baseball and it is fair to assume that the situation warranted moderation in assessing a penalty. It was an extremely hot day and the players were naturally not themselves. Fletcher himself is not held blameless and I have fined him $50 for provoking the outbreak.”

My Comments
James gives the impression that Hornsby was a knucklehead who would just go up and punch someone in the face for no good reason. This article and another that I found states that Fletcher was arguing with the umpires. Hornsby became involved and got into an argument with Fletcher. Hornsby threw the first punch but Fletcher started the outbreak. The article also mentions that this is the first time Hornsby was involved in an incident like this so he wasn’t violent compared to other stars of the day. If he is the biggest horse’s ass in baseball history James could have come up with something better than this as his ultimate story.

[Bench 5]

I looked back at Bill James reasons for rating Eddie Collins and Joe Morgan above Rogers Hornsby. Upon further review I was left asking myself, how come Hornsby didn’t rate higher based upon his statistical dominance of the National League over such an extended period of time? In addition to his Two Triple Crowns, Hornsby had in fact led the league in Slugging % and On Base Average in the same year for eight different seasons. For comparison, Lajoie did it twice, Morgan once, and Collins never did it.

Since SLG and OBA are the main components that feed into the Runs Created formula, I would have expected Hornsby to have separated himself from the other greats even more than he was given credit by James. The answer to this question isn’t self evident based upon James’ written analysis. However, I was able to find some of the answer by trying to replicate James’ numbers. Before I go on I just want to add that I am a fan of Bill James. I just find that his arguments are not very compelling as to why he rates Morgan and Collins over Hornsby.

Hornsby versus Collins
James writes: “The claim that Eddie Collins has better numbers than Rogers Hornsby is, I would expect, surprising to most people, so let me explain why this is true the best I can, without burying you in decimal points. Rogers Hornsby’s best season, 1922, is better than any season of Eddie Collins, not a lot better, but a little better. Hornsby in 1922 hit .401 with 250 hits including 42 homers, driving in 152 runs. Collins’ best season did not have quite the impact as that monster season which was the best season ever by a major league second baseman.

However, Collins best season (1909) and his second best season (1914) are both better than any other season in Hornsby’s career, in my opinion. In addition, Collins had more seasons which are at or near the level of his best years.

Why is this true? Hornsby’s numbers, without looking at the context are better, Eddie Collins in 1909 created 118 runs; Hornsby in 1929 hit .380 with 39 homers, creating 178 runs.”

James goes on to say:“In the American League when Eddie Collins created 118 runs, the average team scored 3.44 runs per game. Collins, then created all the runs that would normally be scored by a team in 34 games – actually 34.3.

In the National League in 1929, when Rogers Hornsby created 178 runs, the average team scored 5.36 runs per game. Hornsby’s offense then represents all the runs that would normally be scored by a team in 33 games – actually 33.2.

In context, who is the better hitter? Who had more impact on the games that he was playing? It’s close, but Collins did.

Looking at 1914 season, same thing; Collins created 128 runs (most in the American League) in a league where the average team scored 3.66 runs per game. Collins, then created all of the offense that would normally be scored by a team in 35 games – actually 34.97.
Hornsby in 1921 (which matches 1929 as his 2nd greatest season) created 152 runs, in a league in which the average team scored 4.59 runs per game. Hornsby’s 1921 season thus represents all of the runs a team would score in 33 games – actually 33.1.”

My Two Cents
I have no problem if James rates Collins as the overall better player than Hornsby due to defense and his sustained greatness over such a long career. I am not saying that I agree but it is a valid point. But I have a problem with James when he tries to argue that Collins had a higher impact from an offensive standpoint for the seasons in question.

First of all, based purely on offense I would tend to think that Hornsby’s second best year was probably 1924 or 1925. But that’s neither here nor there. At face value, I think that Hornsby had a better offensive year in 1921 than Collins had in 1914. Collins had a great year in 1914 so the difference is not large. So how did James arrive at the numbers that would cause him to rate Collins the better offensive player for the two years in question?

If you apply the basic Runs Created formula to Collins in 1914 you would see that he created 106 runs. If you do the same for Hornsby in 1921 he created 171 runs. That’s quite a difference from the numbers that James gives them credit for in his book.

Runs Created
Here’s where it gets interesting. What started out as a simple formula to approximate the runs that a player helped create has developed into several different variations over the years. In the 1989 Total Baseball that I own, they use 11 variations of Runs Created. James’ used a new version of Runs Created for his book. He states that there are 24 versions in existence as of when he wrote the book. (James points out elsewhere in his book that the runs created formula works very well from about 1920 to the present which coincides with the advent of the lively ball.)

There are a couple changes that James made to the formula which help explain why Collins was adjusted upwards and Hornsby downwards for the years in question.

1) Placing estimates in team context
James states: “One of the problems with the basic runs created formula as applied to an individual is that it implicitly assumes that the elements of the hitter’s offensive contributions are interacting with one another. “ He goes on to say, “We fixed this by, in essence figuring how many runs that team would create with this hitter, figuring how many runs they would create without this hitter, and subtracting the difference.”

2) Correcting estimates on the team level
Another adjustment is made to correct the estimates for runs created on a TEAM level. James states: “We figure runs created for all of the individuals on the team and total them up. If the total is too high we adjust it. If a team scores 760 runs but the individuals on the team have 800 estimated runs created, then we reduce everyone’s runs created by 5% so that the runs created by individuals on the team are the same as the team runs scored on that team.”

In the case of Collins and Hornsby here’s what I found when I performed the math to check James work for his second adjustment:

Collins in 1914

The sum of the runs created for the 1914 A’s add up to an estimated 632 runs. The A’s actually scored 749. The difference is 18.4%. So under James new method, everyone on the team get an upward adjustment of 18.4%. This gives Collins a total of 126. Not exactly what James lists in his book, but close.

FYI - For the entire league, the sum of all estimated runs created = 4,277 while the actual number of runs scored = 4,610. This is a difference of 7.8%.

Hornsby in 1921

For Hornsby the opposite occurs. The Cardinals scored 809 runs in 1921 while the sum of the estimated runs created for each player adds up to 862. Hornsby’s runs created are reduced by 6.2% which results in a runs created of 160. (Other factors in James new RC formula further reduce Hornsby to 152 runs created.)

FYI - The sum of the runs created for all players in the league adds up to 5,803 whereas the actual runs scored = 5,632 which is a difference of -2.9%.

Summary
This leads to why he shows Collins as the better offensive player over the two years in question. Now that I see how he came to his numbers I disagree with the choices he made. Regarding his new formula he admits: “Not everyone has reacted well to the recent amendments to the Runs Created formula and I fault myself for this.”

I think he made a mistake by applying the adjustment from runs created to actual runs on the team level. I understand the need to sync up the actual runs to the estimated runs. But I think that he should apply the adjustment based upon the difference at the league level rather than at the team level. That way it is apples to apples. As it stands, players are penalized or else given a bonus based upon how the numbers stack up at the team level.

As he states, the formula is an approximation. It’s not perfect. However, as the formula is applied to a larger scale, such as the league, the number more closely approximates actual runs scored. By making the adjustment at the team level he further distorts what already is an approximation. Importantly, a player with exactly the same stats on two different teams could have a noticeable disparity in the number of runs created under James new method. The whole idea of the runs created formula is to estimate a player’s impact independent of the team’s performance. That doesn’t happen here.

(Also, he is giving each player an adjustment proportionate to their runs created. So the more productive player gets a bigger chunk of the difference between actual runs and estimated runs or else he takes a bigger hit. This isn’t major issue, but if he is going to do it this way, I think it could be argued that the difference should be accorded based upon outs used or plate appearances.)

If we apply the adjustment at the league level for the seasons in question, Collins winds up with 114 runs created while Hornsby winds up with 166. Hornsby creates all the runs a team would score in 36.1 and Collins creates all the runs a team would have scored in 31.3 games. That makes quite a big difference from James’ comparison.

For the heck of it, I looked at how the adjustment at the team level impacts Hornsby’s numbers from the major portion of his career from 1915 thru 1931.

Yr RC Team Adjusted RC Difference
1916 80 80 0 
1917 96 96 0
1918 60 62 2
1919 83 82 (1)
1920 141 131 (10)
1921 171 160 (11)
1922 206 200 (6)
1923 121 115 (6)
1924 189 178 (11)
1925 186 174 (12)
1926 115 119 4
1927 148 144 (4)
1928 153 142 (11)
1929 188 192 4
1930 17 16 (1)
1931 86 85 (1)
Total 2,040 1,976 (64)

As you can see, the idea to “correct estimates at the team level” results in a reduction for Hornsby’s totals for several seasons. It definitely hurts him more than it helps.

Going forward at least I will know keep this in mind when I read his ratings. I am sure that Hornsby isn’t the only player that loses runs created using this formula, and there are just as many that gain some runs created.

I can’t replicate the first adjustment that James implemented as mentioned above. However, it may the reason why his runs created for 1921 and 1929 are lower than they would appear to be based solely on “correcting estimate at the team level.”

If I get some free time, I am going to use the runs created formula and adjust it at the league level and look what impact it might have for all of the top second baseman. Once I finish I will post the results.

Hornsby versus Morgan
I respect why some people rate Morgan so high because he was a very unique player and a great second baseman.

But here’s what James says about the two:
“Morgan had a career batting average of .271 – with a secondary average of .431. How can I rate a .271 hitter ahead of Rogers Hornsby? If you count hits and walks and stolen bases, Morgan accounts for 6,516 career bases leading to 1,650 runs scored. Hornsby accounted for 5,885 bases, leading to 1,579 runs scored. Hornsby played in a league where teams scored 4.43 runs per game; Morgan, an average of 4.11. Hornsby was an average fielder and a jackass. Morgan a good glove and a team leader. Maybe you know the statistics better than I do, but my reading of the numbers puts Morgan ahead, and I don’t see any subjective reason to reject the numbers, and go with Hornsby.“

My Two Cents
James implies that because Morgan accumulated more bases and scored more runs in his career, he is a better offensive player than Hornsby. Then he throws in the reference to the average runs when each played scored but it means nothing here because he fails to mention a very important thing – HOW MANY OUTS DID EACH PLAYER USE TO GET TO THOSE NUMBERS?

Here it is based upon bases accumulated:

Player Bases Outs TA 
Morgan 6,516 7,174 0.908 
Hornsby 5,885 5,800 1.015

And, based upon runs scored:

Player Runs Outs Runs/Outs 
Morgan 1,650 7,174 .230 
Hornsby 1,579 5,800 .272

In Morgan’s day, it would take an average offense (4.11 R/G) 401.5 games to score as many runs as Morgan scored. Morgan used about 265.7 games worth of outs to reach that figure. Morgan scored at a rate 151% better than the league average.

In his day, it would take an average offense (4.43 R/G) 356.4 games to score as many runs as Hornsby. Hornsby used about 214.8 games worth of outs to reach that figure. Hornsby scored at a rate 166% above league average. With the proper context, Hornsby was better.

But then again, Hornsby was a “jackass,” so maybe that makes up for the differences?:

[Bench 5]

In follow-up to the previous post, runs created should be adjusted at the league level because of the following reasons:

1) Runs Created at the league level is cleaner since it removes the situation dependent variables that are based upon the performance of the team offense as a whole. If a team as a whole is not as efficient at scoring runs as the model predicts, it could be based on a variety of factors that don't show up in the raw numbers. A team that is slow for instance might not score as many runs as a team with good all around speed. Maybe one team favors the "Earl Weaver wait for the 3 run homer type" offense versus the "sac bunt, play for one run at a time" offense. Why should the individual player be penalized for the failings of his teammates or team offense philosophy. I want to know whether Lou Gehrig is better than Jimmie Foxx independent of the performance of his teammates or efficiency of the team offense. Team performance should not be allowed in the fomula.

2) Player A one team could have exactly the same stats as Player B on another team. Due to the adjustment at the team level, Player A might be given credit for more or less runs than Player B based upon how close his team is to the estimated runs created. That makes no sense whatsoever. Runs Created was an attempt to estimate how many runs a player is worth offensively independent of the performance of his team.

2) Even at best, the formula is always going to be off at the team level. It's an inexact formula that comes close to the actual runs scored but it's never exact. At the league level the formula is much closer. But the variances are greater at the team level. Taken as a whole the variances per team somwhat equal out which usually results in a difference of less than 1% at the league level. Variances are to be expected at the team level and don't necessarily represent that a team is not as efficient as another team at scoring runs. What I am saying here is that even if he was going to adjust at the team level, he should not make an adjustment if the estimated runs are within a certain percetn (e.g. 2%) since it's an expected by-product of the formula and to be expected.

3) He makes the adjustment proportionate to the player's percent of the total runs estimated for the team. So if the total runs estimated for a team are down 75 from the actual runs scored, the best player will receive a larger proportionate share of the difference. Likewise, if a team scored less runs than estimated for the team, the best player will be penalized at a higher rate proportionate to the rest of his teammates. I think that any adjustments should be made based upon outs or PA. In the big picture this isn't going to make a huge difference but I think it's more fair.

4) If he's going to try to adjust back to actual runs scored then I think he might as well just use Runs Produced (R + RBI - HR) as the basis for his calculations. Runs Produced is based upon actual performace. It's not favired because it's dependent on factors such as batting order and performance of the team. But given the fact that he introduced this element into his Runs Created formula, I think that Runs Produced should be considered.

5) If you adjust at the league level, the production of a player is "apples to apples". All players are adjusted up or down based upon how close the sum of estimated runs scored for each player matches actual runs scored for the league. Players with the same stats on different teams will have the same runs created (independent of park factors).

[Bench 5]

Since Hornsby played for 4 different teams in four different years I decided to see if we can determine the net effect that Hornsby contributed to each team. As we look at these numbers we have to remember that there are other factors at work which cause the difference in runs scored, such as player turnover and injuries. But I think the numbers are pretty interesting.

I took the average runs per game scored by the teams he played with before, and after, he left the team. I compared how the teams performed versus the league average to factor out overall increases or decreases in the league runs per game year to year. I used that to come up with the how the team's offense performed with and without Hornsby for the 4 years in question.

In sum, here's the impact that each team felt with and without Hornsby:

Team

• Leaving Cardinals - Offense down 7.9%
• Joining Giants - Offense up 20.8%
• Leaving Giants - Offense down 3.7%
• Joining Braves - Offense down 4.9%
• Leaving Braves - Offense down 9.3%
• Joining Cubs - Offense up 22.2%

The 1927 Giant offense went up significantly when he joined them and the same for the 1929 Cubs offense. When he joined the Braves in 1928, the offense declined slightly.

When he left the Cards after 1926, offense went down. Same pattern for the 1928 Giants, and the 1929 Braves.

It's an expected pattern but I think this re-inforces the fact that he had a noticeable impact on team offense.

[Bench 5]

I dug up some articles on the three big Hornsby trades of the 1920's. I am going to post excerpts from the articles over a series of posts. I am finally able to convert PDF to text so that made this a little easier to do but I still have to fix a ton of typos since the conversion from image to text is far from perfect. I am done with the articles regarding the trade from the Cards to the Giants. I am still working on the Giants to Braves trade and the Braves to Cubs trade. I will post them in the next few days. Some members are of the opinion that the 3 trades suggest that Hornsby was overrated as a player or that he wasn't as good as his stats show. I think a reading of the documents at the time show that the reasons he was traded are due to other factors: money, control, and gambling issues.

I also found three articles written by Hornsby in 1929 that give his take on each of the trades.

Background
In 1926 Rogers Hornsby led the Cards to their first world series championship. Although he was injured for part of the year and only hit .317, he led the team to victory over the highly acclaimed Yankees. Hornsby was a beloved figure in St. Louis. What happened next was shocking news.

Prelude to the trade:

Washington Post, November 11, 1926
Denying rumors that he would be traded to the New York Giants because of friction known to have existed between him and President Sam Breadon of the world’s champion St. Louis Cardinals, Manager Rogers Hornsby said today he would rather play in St. Louis than any other city.

“The question of Mr. Breadon and I conferring on our terms for next year is our private business,” he said. “I can only say that I would rather play in St. Louis than in any other city in the country. I do not want to play in New York, or Chicago, or any other city. I want to play in St. Louis with the Cardinals. There are several things about the ball club that I want to discuss with Mr. Breadon. I have invested heavily in the club. I am the second largest stockholder. Mr. Breadon is the only man who owns more stock in the Cardinals than I do. Naturally, being interested financially to such an extent, I am interested in protecting my investment.”

Hornsby has never signed a manager’s contract. His player’s contract expired this year. Although be has made no public statement. It is known that he will ask Breadon for a free hand in managing the Cardinals without interference from Branch Rickey, former manager and now vice president of the club, whose activities among the players Hornsby is known to have resented. Hornsby also is expected to request a substantial increase in salary.

Breadon, who is in Bradentown. Fla., said over the long-distance telephone today that he would confer with Hornsby when he returned to St. Louis early in December and he was confident “everything will be ironed out.”

[Bench 5]

Note that Frisch didn't get along with McGraw which hastened his departure from New York.


NY Times December 21, 1926

In the biggest deal of modern baseball history, Rogers Hornsby, greatest batsman of the game, and manager of the world’s champion St. Louis Cardinals, was traded to the Giants last night for Frank Frisch and pitcher Jimmy Ring. The transaction, completed over the long-distance telephone between St. Louis and New York at 7:30 last night, involves players valued at more than half a million dollars and brings to this city the second of the two outstanding figures of the sport—Babe Ruth, King of the long distance hitters, and Hornsby, six-time batting champion of the National League.

Although President Charles A. Stoneham of the Giants declared that no money was paid to the Cardinals, baseball men were unanimous in insisting that the New York club must have handed over at least $100,000, in addition to its star second baseman and a veteran pitcher who is almost at the end of his career. Hornsby, it was pointed out, is worth much more than $300,000 at present baseball prices. Several years ago John McGraw, manager of the Giants, offered $250,000 and five players for him. Not long afterward the Brooklyn club raised this figure to a straight $275,000.

Since that time Hornsby’s value has increased greatly. He went on to win his sixth successive hitting championship of the league, was universally recognized as the finest right-handed batter of them all and climaxed his career last season by leading the Cardinals to the first pennant ever won by a modern St. Louis team and later to the world’s championship. At the very peak of his career, when his money value was close to the $350,000 mark, Hornsby is traded for Frank Frisch, who might bring $250,000 in the open market, and for a pitcher of slight value.

There is a difference here of about $100,000 that baseball experts wanted explained to them last night. They considered it unbelievable that President Breadon of the Cardinals would have traded the popular hero of St., Louis for Frisch and Ring alone. On the other band, the Giants would gladly turn over Frisch and Ring and $100,000, for in Hornsby they have the long-sought metropolitan rival for Babe Ruth. That they would pay Hornsby $50,000 a year for three years was likewise taken for granted; his box office value in the biggest baseball city is tremendous.

Moreover. Hornsby now looms up as the next manager of the Giants, to take the reins when John McGraw finally decides to lay them down, as be has threatened to do for the past year. It was President Breadon of the Cardinals who suggested this trade involving $600,000 worth of ball players.

Breadon and Hornsby had a conference in St. Louts yesterday on salary matters; they disagreed hopelessly, and Breadon then did the next best thing by offering him to the Giants. Shortly after the meeting with Hornsby, Breadon called President Stoneham of the Giants on the phone. According to Stoneham, the St. Louis club owner broached the trade of Hornsby for Frisch and Ring. It was immediately accepted; a few minutes of telephone conversation and the big deal was put through.

President Stoneham denied that the trade bad been previously arranged. “In an off-band way,’ he said, “we had talked with Breadon about trading Hornsby, but the negotiations did not get very far. We were not very hopeful, and when Breadon called us tonight I was as much surprised as any one.”

The rival second basemen greeted the news with a marked lack of enthusiasm. Hornsby was quoted in St. Louis as saying that “It doesn’t look right that I should be traded from a club that I just managed to a world’s championship.”

At his home in this city Frisch the Fordham Flash, born and brought up in New York, seemed stunned by the tidings. “It’s pretty hot out there, but I suppose I’ll play,” be said in a listless tone.

Among other things, this is the first time in baseball history that a manager has been traded within a year of his having won the world’s championship. From that angle alone the trade was enough to set the baseball tongues wagging.

The acquisition of Hornsby gratifies an ambition long cherished by John McGraw. For many years he has cast a covetous eye at the man whom McGraw h1msef called “the greatest right-handed bitter of all time.” Fabulous offers were in vain. The Cardinals would have traded Hornsby for Frisch and other players several years ago, but McGraw declared that he would not give up Frisch for Hornsby under any circumstances.

The next move came last week at the meetings of the major leagues, when the split between Hornsby and Breadon loomed up as very serious. It was known that McGraw again was talking trade with the Cardinals; the trail became so hot that be canceled a reservation on the Twentieth Century Limited to travel with Breadon to Chicago on another train. It was in a compartment on this train, the story goes, that the deal was completed which was announced Last night—conditional, of course, on Breadon’s failing to sign Hornsby to a one- year contract instead of the three-year agreement that Rogers demanded.

Two years ago Hornsby signed a three-year contract at $30,000 a season. When he was made manager In the middle of the 1925 season, his contract as a player went on and Rogers received nothing extra for being manager. However, as soon as the Cardinals had won the world’s series, Hornsby announced that he wanted his present contract torn up and a new document drawn up calling for $50,000 for three years.

The dispute between Breadon and Hornsby involved only the question of one year or three. President Breadon considered the latter risk too great. One of his arguments was that Hornsby as a player had been far below his usual level this year. Rogers batted only .316, almost 100 points under his customary figure both his batting and fielding suffered from the strain of piloting a team through the thick of a pennant battle.

Breadon and his popular manager also had sharp disagreements on other matters. Hornsby insisted on the complete retirement from the club of Vice President Branch Rickey, Rogers’s predecessor as manager. Although Hornsby owned 15 percent. of the club, Breadon stuck to Rickey, his chief adviser.

There was also a rupture between McGraw and Frisch, who suddenly left the team last August In St. Louis and came home. Frisch was angered by McGraw’s biting remarks and by the managers intention to switch him to third base. The trouble was smoothed over, but Frisch, alter being ill for some time, was fined $500 when he returned to uniform. It was a foregone conclusion then that this season would be his last as a Giant.

Not since the sale of Ruth to the Yankees in 1920 has there been a baseball trade which might be compared with the trading of a world’s championship manager and possibly the flashiest second baseman of any day. Last year was Hornsby’s eleventh full season with the Cardinals. He played minor league ball at Dallas and Dennison, Texas, in 1914 and was sold to St. Louis on Aug. 20, 1915, for the munificent sum of $500. For five years alternating among shortstop, third base and second, he finally drifted to the latter position.

At the same time his tremendous hitting began to attract attention. His first big year was 1920, when he batted .370. After reaching .397 the next year, he went over the .400 mark in 1922, 1924 and 1925. His .424 in 1924 established a new modern major league batting mark. In 1922 he hit forty-two homers, still the National League record. His batting’ feats eclipsed even those of Delehanty and Honus Wagner. Last year he was voted the most valuable player in his league.

Frisch, a baseball and football star at Fordham, joined the Giants in 1919 after the Yanks had bid unsuccessfully for him. He became a full-fledged regular in 1921, hit .341 that year and .348 in 1923, his greatest season. Frisch was probably the best of all world’s series players and holds a record in having hit .300 or better In four series. His spectacular fielding and dazzling speed made him a popular favorite, but he was below form in both 1925 an 1926, hitting only .314 last season.

Ring was a star for the Reds in the world’s series of 1919. In 1921 he was traded to the Phillies and last Winter to the Giants for Dean, Bentley and cash. He pitched only five full games for McGraw and had a record of 11 won and ten lost."

[Bench 5]

NY Times, April 10, 1927
"Rogers Hornsby has disposed of his Cardinal stock, thereby complying with the order of John A. Heydler, President of the National League. Hornsby now has removed the last obstacle and is eligible to represent the New York Giants during the regular league season, which opens on Tuesday.

Following a conference in the office of the New York Giants in the Hart Building at Forty-second Street and Sixth Avenue yesterday morning, it was announced that Sam Breadon, President of the St. Louis club, had purchased the stock. Leo J. Bondy, attorney for the New York Giants, who had threatened to apply for an injunction to permit Hornsby to play, acted as spokesman for the club. He said that a settlement had been reached, but nothing would be announced as to the compromise price.

However, it was learned on good authority that Hornsby had received $100,000 and $12,000 additionally for counsel fees. This would be in accordance with the announcement of the National League, after the Pittsburgh meeting last Friday night that the league had obtained an offer of $100,000 for Hornsby.

After the meeting President Heydler and Attorney Bondy issued the following joint statement; "An agreement has been reached for the purchase of Hornsby’s stock in the St. Louis club at a price satisfactory to all concerned. In bringing about this solution, concessions were made by Hornsby, the St. Louis and New York clubs and the National League. The stock will revert to Samuel Breadon for the benefit of the St. Louis club."

Thus in a few hours a compromise settlement was reached after more than twelve hours of conferring among the National League owners had failed to accomplish anything in Pittsburgh. Prior to that, the Giants, with the aid of Heydler, tried to effect a settlement in private, but both Hornsby and Breadon refused to make concessions. Hornsby had insisted his 1.167 shares of stock were worth $105 per share and ho refused to take any cut. He purchased the stock for $45 per share, and. according to one conversant with Hornsby’s affairs, the star second baseman paid down only $5,000 and to date he had paid in only $25,000 on the stock which when purchased by Hornsby had a valuation of $52,515.

The compromise settlement represents a profit for Hornsby of $47,485 taken on the basis of the $100,000 for his stock. Just what the settlement cost the Giants and the National League was not announced. For a time Breadon held out and repeatedly stated he would not pay more than $60 per share and Hornsbv was equally insistent he would take not take a cent less than $122,735.

While the parties to the settlement would not give any details it was learned on good authority that the $112,000 had been adjusted as follows:
Sam Breadon, $86,000; seven National League Clubs, $2,000 each, or $14,000, and the Giants, $12,000.

When and where the compromise was effected is not clear, but it is believed that the final terms were accepted on the train while returning from the Pittsburgh meeting and that the session in the Giants offices yesterday was a formal one to sign documents. Legal action, accordingly, has been avoided. This is the one thing that the National League wanted to do. When all negotiations had failed, President Heydler called a meeting of the owners in a last effort to keep out of court and Friday it appeared this had failled.

The Giants, through McGraw and Stoneham, have maintained that Hornsby was the property of the Giants, that the Giants should not be deprived of his services through no fault of the clubs, that there was nothing in the league by-laws covering the case and that the Giants would fight the case through the courts.

McGraw came out of the meeting smiling. "We got Hornsby to play ball, and now that we are sure he will be allowed to do this my duties from now will be on the ball field," McGraw said as he hastened for the Polo Grounds.

A few minutes later Hornsby came out of the meeting. He also was on his way to the Polo Grounds to play in the game against the Senators. "All's settled and that's another worry off my mind," he said.

"What was the price?" he was asked. He shook his head and said Heydler and Bondy would do the talking. His attorney, William H. Fahey of St. Louis, also was silent, but it is understood that Hornsby remarked that "he got his price and that he did not make any concessions." This was denied by Attorney Bondy, who said that the official statement covered that point when it read; "Concessions were made by Hornsby, the St. Louis and New York clubs and the National League."

There also was another report, but unconfirmed, that Hornsby received $100 per share, bringing the total to $116,700, out of which he would pay his own attorney fees.

Those present at the conference were President Heydler of the National League; Charles A. Stoneham. President of the Giants; John J. McGraw, manager of the Giants; Rogers Hornsby, William H. Fahey, attorney for Hornsby; Leo J. Bondy, attorney for the New York club, and Frank York, attorney for the Brooklyn club, who also acted as counsel for the National League. It was understood that President Heydler was authorized to act for Breadon.

There still are a few who insist that Hornsby paid only $43 a share for the stock, and that it was the cost of this stock which really brought about friction between Breadon and Hornsby. Hornsby bought the stock in the summer of 1925 and some time later he learned that Breadon had purchased some of the stock from Branch Rickey, now Vice President and business manager of the Cardinals, for $41 per share. Taken on a basis of $43 per share, then, the figures show that Hornsby made a profit of $51,019, with the understanding that he accepted $100,000 outright.

With the last of the off-season wars ended the National League can settle down to the war or playing ball for the balance of the season. Heydler recently said there had been too much talking about things other than baseball for the good of the game, and that it was time to cease injecting private business affairs, players and the league into public prints."

[Bench 5]

Here's one of three articles that Hornsby penned regarding the three trades. Note that Hornsby believes that the fact that the Giants had to pay money to help settle his transaction with the Cardinals may have caused ill will with his new team.

LA Times, February 3, 1929 by Rogers Horsnby
"After the announcement was made that St. Louis had traded me to New York, I couldn’t help recall the days when I played with Dennison down in Texas when I started out in professional ball. At that time I visioned myself a player in New York. I suppose nearly every youngster who starts out in the bushes pictures in his mind a day when he will be playing ball in New York.

But when I realized that at last I was to go to New York and be a member of the Giants, I must admit I failed to get any great kick. However, let me say that my single year in New York stands out as one of the pleasantest I have had in the game.

Things were especially pleasing because of the close friendship which sprang up between John McGraw and myself. This may sound a bit strange in view of what followed, after one year of service with the team but it is true just the same. Regardless of what happened I feel a deep friendship today for Mr. McGraw and I believe him one of the biggest men the game has ever had.

During that summer Mrs. Hornsby and myself were entertained many times at McGraw’s home. McGraw had appointed me captain of the team, and on those visits at his home he talked baseball matters with me and we devised ways and means of getting the best results out of the team in the pennant race, which was pretty hot, especially\at the finish.

But outside of Mr. McGraw no one connected with the New York club seemed to care a lot about me. Maybe it was the way I held out in the spring for my price in the sale of my St. Louis baseball stock. There was no trouble signing a contract with the Giants. We came to terms at once. But it was understood that I had to get rid of my stock in the Cardinals.

I was perfectly willing to sell, but I had my price and I never felt that I asked more than it was worth. I knew the St. Louis club had a big cash surplus in the bank and I felt I had helped to create that surplus, and that it had increased the value of my stock.

I went on the training trip with the Giants with the deal for my stock still hanging fire. I returned to New York for the opening of the season and still no one had accepted my price. Then John A. Heydler, President of the National League, came out with a statement that under no conditions could I play with the Giants until I had sold my stock in the St. Louis club.

That really helped me. The law couldn’t compel me to accept an unsatisfactory offer. I stuck to my price. Finally the day before the season was to open, and while the team was practicing at the Polo Grounds, I was called off the field by an official of the Giants and informed that my price had been accepted and everything was ready for me to sign over the stock. This was attended to at once and I was ready to open the season with Giants.
It may be that it was necessary for the New York club to fork over part of the money to pay for my stock, to make me eligible to play with the team and that that was the cause of the ill feeling shown toward me later on by the owner of the Giants. But I never was informed.

The Giants didn’t get away so well in that 1927 race, partly because of bad luck through injuries in early season and partly because some of the players were still lacking in experience. Along towards the latter part of the summer, McGraw apparently figured there was no chance for the team that year and that it would be wise to get new material and try it out before the season was over.

While he was after such material, I was placed in command of the team, and it was just at that time that the boys rounded into form and started going. We went on a western trip and cleaned up. We were back in the thick of the pennant race. We had a chance to win.

McGraw hastened back from his scouting expedition and joined us. Everybody buckled down to the fight in the finishing games but the strain had been too great and the pace too hot, and we broke down at the close. The Pittsburgh Pirates finished with a rush and won it. St. Louis, too, was in the battle to the finish, and the Chicago Cubs were not put out of it until the last week.

We didn’t win but we had put up a great fight. The fans were pleased. Things looked bright for the next year. I went back to my home in St. Louis optimistic over our prospects never thinking that the biggest surprise of all was about to break."

[Bench 5]

If fans of the day thought that the trade of Hornsby by the Cardinals was shocking enough, the trade of Hornsby by the Giants must have been just as staggering. I have read several contemporaneous articles on the trade and the major theme is that the trade was so imbalanced that there must have been something mysterious going on that caused the trade. Major reasons mentioned by the press for the trade:

A. Hornsby was traded because he didn’t get along with McGraw
B. Hornsby was traded because of his gambling activities
C. The Giants owned the Braves – news accusations of a “Syndicate” relationship between the teams
D. Hornsby was traded because he was disliked by Giants ownership

I am inclined to think that there is little to any truth to A. I also doubt that C had anything to do with it. The major reason for the trade is D. When Hornsby came to the Giants a circus atmosphere followed the club due to his remaining issues with the Cardinals regarding his sale of the stock. When he finally sold the stock, the Giants had to kick in an extra $12,000 to settle the dispute. That likely contributed to some ill will between the Giants ownership and Hornsby. In the summer of 1927, Hornsby was also sued by a gambling commissioner for over $70,000 in unpaid bets. The negative publicity that this caused must have angered Stoneham as well. Add to the fact that Hornsby was accused by Stoneham of making uncomplimentary remarks about him and that all but sealed his fate.

I am going to include several articles that explore all angles of this extraordinary trade.

[Bench 5]

New York Times, January 11, 1928
"Rogers Hornsby, outstanding and highest salaried player in the National League, was traded last night by Manager John McGraw to the Boston Braves for two obscure players “for the best interests of the New York Giants.” The two players the Giants are to receive in exchange for the star, who in 1926 managed the world’s champion St. Louis Cardinals, and who came to the Giants in exchange for Frank Frisch a year ago, are Francis Hogan, a catcher, who only last season made his debut in the National League, and James Welsh, an outfielder.

The announcement came in the form of a typewritten statement signed by both McGraw, as manager of the Giants, and Charles A. Stoneham, the club’s President, and was distributed at 9:45 o’clock last night by Secretary James J. Tierney to newspaper men in the Giants’ headquarters in Forty-Second Street. The statement read: ”After due deliberation between President Stoneham and Manager McGraw and having in mind what we thought to be the best interests of the New York Giants, a trade was consummated today which involves Rogers Hornsby, second baseman of the Giants, whereby the Giants received Francis Hogan, catcher, and James Welsh, outfielder of the Boston Braves. No cash was involved in the transaction.”

Had the ceiling of the room fallen down upon the heads of the astounded baseball writers there could have been no greater consternation. Earlier in the day they had been notified that an important announcement was forthcoming in the evening. Some even had expected that it might pertain to the promotion of Hornsby to the managership of the club as last Summer there has been frequent reports that the star second baseman was slated to succeed McGraw as active pilot of the club.

As soon as the writers grasped the full import of the terse statement they plied Secretary Tierney with questions. Neither Stoneham nor McGraw was present and Tierney declined to divulge their whereabouts. Neither would he make any comment that would tend to shed any light on the reason for the startling transaction. He stated emphatically that “the statement would have to speak for itself.”

Not a baseball man in the city could be found last night able to offer a plausible reason for what was generally regarded as a dismissal of Hornsby, who by the millions of fans throughout the country has been hailed as the great “Rajah.” That some mysterious motive was involved was almost universally conceded for the trade itself, viewed in the light of the respective merits of the players involved, scarcely could be called an equitable one.

McGraw named him field captain, a post that Frisch previously had held, and his work as a leader evoked almost as much favorable comment as that of a player. During the closing months of the 1927 pennant race McGraw was taken ill, and it was then that Hornsby rose to his greatest heights as a Giant. The post of acting manager was turned over to Hornsby by McGraw and it was the Rajah’s skillful handling of the team on the last Western trip that enabled the Giants, counted out of the race in August, to make one of the most spectacular bids for a pennant in the history of the league. Forced to play nearly all of their games on the road in that terrific closing drive, made during a blistering heat wave in the West the Giants wound up the race only two games behind the pennant winning Pittsburgh Pirates and half a game behind the Cardinals, who just managed to hang on to second place on the final day.

It was because of this great showing and the fact that it had frequently been reported that McGraw was seriously considering stepping down as active leader of the Giants that a general feeling prevailed that Hornsby eventually would be the man to succeed McGraw as the Giants’ manager.
So far as is known, there never was any friction between Hornsby and McGraw, who, in fact, spoke in highly complimentary terms of Hornsby’s work at the close of the 1927 season. Hornsby is understood to have signed a two-year contract with the Giants last Spring at a salary of $40,000 a season. Under baseball law, the Braves will have to assume that contract next season.

Hornsby, who will be thirty-two years old on April 27 and was born in Winters, Texas, came to the Cardinals in 1915 after breaking into the minors the previous year with Dallas in the Texas League. He was tried out at various infield posts playing third base, shortstop and second base before he finally rose to the heights of a real star at the latter position. He became one of the real greats of the game in 1920 when be led the National League in batting with an average of .370. Then followed five successive seasons in which he retained\his batting leadership in the league, hitting .401 in 1922 and setting a new major league record in 1924 when be reached a mark of .424. He fell off to .317 in 1926, but last season with the Giants he again seemed to have regained his batting eye and turned in a mark of .381, placing second to Paul Waner.

In sharp contrast to this brilliant record, the names of Hogan and Welsh, who will be Giants in place of Hornsby next season, are scarcely known to New York fans. Hogan came to the Braves as a high chool player and first appeared in the role of outfielder before being converted into a catcher by Manager Bancroft last Spring. He began the year as a promising slugger, hut wound up with an average of .288. Welsh, who out in his third season with the Braves last year had the same batting average. "

ST. LOUIS, Jan. 10 - Rogers Hornsby announced late tonight the receipt of a telegram from Judge Emil E. Fuchs, President of the Braves, informing him of the deal. Obviously at a loss for words, the ballplayer asked reporters if there was anything to the report that the Braves are owned by the Giants.

“Maybe they’re trying to build up a Boston club” he said. “I’ve heard the Giants own the Braves. Do you know whether that’s true? I certainly don’t know what’s wrong if there is anything wrong. Of course it’s all right with me. It doesn’t make any difference to me whether I’m with the Braves or any other club, but I do not know what the New York officials mean by saying I was traded for the best interests of the club, unless they simply meant to infer they received players who will give the team more strength than I have given it.”

BOSTON, Jan. 10.— A statement made tonight by Judge Emil H. Fuchs, President of the Braves, as follows:
“The Boston Braves have consummated a trade whereby Boston obtained Rogers Hornsby, whom we consider the greatest player in the National League, and the New York Giants received two young prospects Frank Hogan of Somerville and Jimmy Welsh. As the Braves have an option of an experienced catcher, we were able to part with Hogan, who, we trust, will develop and make good in his new surroundings, as his showing during the early part of last season indicated that he would. Welsh also has shown possibilities of development with his natural qualifications as a batter and fielder. The personal relationship between Hornsby and the undersigned has been one of warm friendship for years, and I promise the Boston public that he will give us everything he has to bring the Braves toward the top. While I regret the parting with Hogan and Welsh of whom I was very fond personally, from the stand’ point of Boston I am elated with the trade.”

[Bench 5]

New York Times, January 12, 1928
"The first inkling from an official source as to the real reason why Rogers Hornsby was traded “for the best interests of the New York Giants” to the Boston Braves for the two rather obscure players Hogan and Welsh came yesterday when Charles A. Stoneham, President of the Giants, in a supplementary statement, said the deal was made "in order to avoid any future conflict in the management of the club.’’

In short, if President Stoneham’s statement is to be accepted as the real explanation, Hornsby, either directly or indirectly, was a trifle too zealous last Summer in pressing his pretensions as the next manager of the club, and this in the language of the ball players, apparently “got under the skin” of President Stoneham, if not of Manager John McGraw himself. Stoneham’s statement follows:

”Supplementing the statement made by this club last night regarding the Hornsby and Hogan-Welsh transaction, I wish to say that the deal was made in order to avoid any future conflict in the management of the club, and for no other reason. Statements have been made throughout the country that Mr. Hornsby would be the future manager of the club. I have never been consulted regarding this and have had no conference about the selection of a manager, as Mr. McGraw still retains the management of the New York Giants. The club believes that in this deal it has been strengthened behind the bat and in the outfield. These additional players added to our present roster indicate to us that we will be among the foremost contenders for the coming National League pennant. We feel that we have done what is best, looking toward the welfare of the organization and I trust that the loyal fans and supporters will bear with the club until such time as the results of this transaction are definitely decided on the playing field. “

Despite the earnestness, however, with which Stoneham made this statement, baseball men yesterday continued to remain skeptical. The deal which McGraw and Stoneham dropped like a bombshell out of a clear sky Tuesday night, is such an extraordinary one, viewed in almost any light, that critics and others found it hard to believe that mere “lèse-majesté” could have promoted the Giants to give away virtually the highest salaried player in the National League for a one-year catcher and an outfielder who last year hit .288.

However, it was admitted that, while Hornsby himself was never known to push his qualifications for the managerial post, there came into existence a sort of campaign of propaganda in his behalf that might have become irksome to some of the other officials of the club. Particularly was this true during the closing month of the campaign when Hornsby, assuming full charge of the club during McGraw’s illness, displayed his talents for leadership nd inspired the team to make one of the most sensational bids for a pennant in the history of the league.

On almost every hand during that last Western trip one heard talk of McGraw stepping down as active pilot of the club and Hornsby ascending to his place. Even the players, who earlier in the season had somewhat resented Hornsby’s ‘bossy” ways and outspokenness, showed an unmistakable liking for the fiery but magnetic leadership of the former Cardinal Manager. Many were outspoken in their admiration of his keenness in analyzing plays on a field more swiftly than any other player they had ever seen.

What looms now as even more strange is the fact that McGraw himself had inspired much of this boosting. At the time he was one of Hornsby’s strongest boosters. Joining his club on the last Western trip in Pittsburgh, McGraw took no active part in the piloting of the team during the crucial Pirate series, viewing the games from the grandstand. Asked whether be intended assuming control again before the close of the season. McGraw said:
“I don’t think so. No one possibly could run the club any better than it is being run right now.”

Even earlier in the season when McGraw was in full charge he allowed Hornsby “more rope,” as the players put it, than he ever had given to any other player. It therefore is because of this that baseball men, familiar with all this, were inclined to take Stoneham’s statement last night “with a grain of salt.”

ST. LOUIS, Jan. 11 —Answering the statement of Charles A. Stoneham, President of the New York Giants, Rogers Hornsby said today there never had been a word of controversy between himself and Manager John McGraw and he had never contemplated getting the managership of the Giants.
“I consider McGraw a great manager, the best I ever knew, and I would always be glad to take orders from him,” Hornsby said. “He told St. Louis newspaper men last year that he contemplated making me manager when he retired and that was the first time I ever heard my name connected with the manager’s job.

“There can be no horse-race-betting angle to this. I have not been to a horse race track for a year, but McGraw would not object if I wanted to go because he likes the racing game himself. I never undermined or tried to undermine McGraw. I would like to go to bat with Stoneham, with McGraw present, to prove whether there ever was any discord between McGraw and myself and whether anything ever happened that he could point out as evidence that I was causing discord or trying to undermine McGraw. As proof of the confidence that McGraw had in me, it is well known that during the last two Western trips of the Giants last year McGraw put me in full charge of the team during a critical period of the pennant race.”

SAVANNAH, Ga., Jan. 11 (R).— “There is nothing to add to the original announcement,” John McGraw, Giants’ manager, said here today when asked for further details as to the reason for trading Rogers Hornsby to the Braves. McGraw passed through here en route to Florida and Cuba.
“The trade has been made and that is all there is to it,” he declared.

[Bench 5]

Chicago Daily Tribune, January 13, 1928
Apparently recovered from the shock of having been traded by the New York Giants to the Boston Braves, Rogers Hornsby still declined today to believe that Manager John McGraw had anything to do with the trade or with the statement that be had been transferred “for the good of the Giants.”

Referring to the statement signed by McGraw and Charles A. Stoneham, president and principal owner of the Giants, Hornsby said: “I won’t believe that McGraw said that or signed a statement to that effect until he tells me with his own lips. I don’t believe that the cordial McGraw of last fall could have changed so much in such a short time. As for the statement of Fred Lindstrom, Giant third baseman, that I wanted to dominate the team and that I caused discord, he’s just a cry baby. He always has something wrong with him in a tight series. I did say a few things to him when I was running the club during McGraw’s absence but I was just trying to give, the cry baby some nerve.”

From “Cobb to Catfish” by Tom Meany, published in 1975
When Hornsby reported to the Giants in the spring of 1927, McGraw was absent frequently from the Sarasota camp. He left the club in charge of Rogers. Fred Lindstrom, the third baseman, and Hornsby had an argument over the proper way to make the double play.

Hornsby wanted Lindstrom to fire the ball to him at second as quickly as possible. (Some said this was to save his own arm, so he wouldn’t have to hurry to complete the relay to first base.) Lindstrom said that McGraw always instructed his players to make sure of getting the “head man” on double plays. In other words, McGraw wanted the force-out at second to be certain, preferring to get only one rather than to miss both because the throw to second base was hurried.

“If that’s the way the Old Man wants it,” snapped Hornsby, “do it that way when he’s in charge. When I’m in charge do it my way.”

Lindy, like Hornsby, also could be outspoken. He told Hornsby that once he laid his bat down he was no bargain and not to get all puffed up with his own importance.

“I’m not arguing with you. I’m telling you,” declared Hornsby. “You’ll do as I say. And keep you mouth shut.”

Hornsby paused for a moment to look at the other Giants. “And that goes for the rest of you,” he barked. It did too. Whenever McGraw left Hornsby in charge, and he did several times, not only that spring but during the summer when the club was fighting for the pennant, Hornsby always took charge literally.

[Bench 5]

New York Times, January 12, 1928
"......However, the statement was the only item of official news that transpired during the day. All other opinions, and they were endless, were mere guesses and one man’s guess seemed to be about as good as another’s.

The old accusation of syndicate baseball, which for many years have cropped up from time to time with respect to relations between the Giants and Braves, was among the day’s rumors that one heard the loudest. The accusation, however was flatly denied by Secretary James J. Tierney, who characterized it as “absolutely ridiculous.”

“There is a major league baseball rule,” said Tierney. “which prohibits any club owner from having any interest whatsoever in any other club. It therefore would be impossible for the New York club to have any interest in the Boston club without the matter becoming known.”

While ‘syndicate baseball” always has been barred in the major leagues in a general sort of way, it really was not until this Winter that the rule banning it was amplified to cover all cases. This rule was promulgated by the Advisory Council and recently adopted at the joint meeting of the majors and stipulates that no player or official of one club shall be permitted to hold stock or to have any financial interest in another club.

Chicago Daily Tribune, January 13, 1928
HAVANA. Cuba, Jan. 12.—QP)—Inferences of syndicate baseball that have cropped up since Rogers Hornsby was traded Boston by the New York Giants are “ridiculous,” Manager John McGraw said today on arrival here for a short vacation. “We are not interested in building up the Braves” McGraw said. “Talk of syndicated baseball is a joke, it doesn’t exist and I can prove it. Last Friday we offered Hornsby to the Cincinnati Reds for Catcher Hargrave and Hughie Crltz, second baseman. The offer was made by long distance telephone to President McDiarmid of the club and was promptly turned down.

“During the major league meetings in New York last December, I tried to trade Hornsby to the Brooklyn Robins for ‘Dazzy’ Vance. Wilbert Robinson, the Brooklyn manager turned the proposal down without a second thought.
When I talked to Jack Hendricks, manager of Cincinnati, after my phone conversation, he again turned down my offer for Hargrave and Critz with a flat ‘No.’ I tried to swap Burleigh Grimes for Adolfo Luque in a straight pitcher deaL We tried to trade Hornsby to other clubs with no result although we never offered him to Chicago for Hazen Cuyler.”
When these efforts to dispose of Hornsby failed, McGraw said he opened negotiation, with the Boston club.

[Bench 5]

New York Times January 13, 1928
The most mysterious trade in baseball history—Rogers Hornsby for two unknowns—is now a “closed incident” so far as the Giants are concerned, according to word sent to reporters yesterday by President Charles A. Stoneham.

Alter declining to submit to any questioning by the baseball writers, Mr. Stoneham told Secretary James J. Tierney to notify the reporters that he had nothing more to say in explanation of why Hornsby was traded to the Boston Braves for Catcher Frank Hogan and Outfielder Jim Welsh.

“Mr. Stoneham has no more light to shed on the matter,” said Tierney. “He feels that he has said everything that could be said to explain Hornsby’s transfer. The deal has been made; it is all over and done with and is a closed incident.”

However, the baffled reporters, pressing on ahead with a steady barrage of questions, managed to elicit one or two admissions from Secretary Tierney that threw considerable light on the Great Hornsby Mystery. Putting together the two formal statements issued by Stoneham and the remarks dropped by Tierney yesterday, it is possible to construct the following background for the club’s surprising action:

During the 1927 season Hornsby, although widely mentioned as next manager of the Giants, was discreet enough to steer away from the subject himself. But after the playing season he was quoted in several interviews as stating that he would be appointed manager for 1929. Particularly, he was quoted in a St. Louis newspaper, according to Tierney, as declaring that McGraw would stay on for another year and that then he (Hornsby) would succeed aim.
These interviews, which the club says were given out from Texas to Missouri, incurred the displeasure of President Stoneham, who resented the fact that everybody but Stoneham himself seemed to know that Hornsby would be the next Giant manager.

To make matters worse, stories floated into Giant headquarters that Hornsby was making remarks not complimentary to Stoneham and the present ownership of the club. Hornsby was quoted as saying that before he would accept an offer as manager there would have to be a change in ownership of the Giants. This was the last straw and Stoneham determined to get rid of Hornsby, whom he deemed a troublemaker and an intruder into matters that were none of his affair.

McGraw, although admiring Hornsby immensely, acquiesced in Stoneham’s decision, made the best possible trade and then departed for Cuba to escape the storm that he saw would surely follow the trade.

That Hornsby had criticized Stoneham, even privately, was known to many persons and this information finally reached Stoneham’s ear, Tierney admitted yesterday. Hornsby, a frank and outspoken person, told this writer in Philadelphia late last September that before he would consider becoming manager of the Giants there would have to be “a new deal” in the club ownership. Hornsby’s remarks, while not confidential, were not intended for publication but he may have told other persons those same views and undoubtedly they finally made their way to Stoneham himself.

“There would have to be a new ownership of the Giants,” Hornsby said to this writer, “before I would consent to being manager. There are too many men attempting to dictate the club’s policy. I had a taste of that in St. Louis, with Breadon and Rickey each having a finger in the pie. As manager I would want complete authority in the playing end.” He mentioned Colonel Jacob Ruppert as his idea of the sort of man who should buy out the Giants and displace the present ownership.

Secretary Tierney admits that Hornsby’s remarks reached President Stoneham, also his confident assumptions that he would be the next Giant manager. Seeing in Hornsby a person hostile to the Stoneham regime and likely to make trouble as his position in New York baseball became stronger year by year, Stoneham, the conjecture is decided to nip the matter in the bud.

Baseball men agree that the trade was engineered almost entirely by Stoneham. Heretofore, there had been no sound motive uncovered for Stoneham’s action, but plenty of motive would seem to be disclosed in the theory outlined above. Although personally the two men were friendly, Stoneham felt that Hornsby was a menace to the harmony and good-feeling of the club. This explains what Stoneham meant by saying that “the deal was made to avoid any future conflict in the management of the club.” It was not a conflict in the management of the team but of the club’s affairs: not a conflict between Hornsby and McGraw but between Hornsby and Stoneham. Hornsby and Stoneham did not exchange a hundred words last season; there was nothing personal in their differences. What precipitated the row was what Hornsby said about the Giant owner to others.

McGraw signed the original announcement of the deal and told reporters earlier that same day that he approved it thoroughly. Therefore, it is believed that McGraw was won over by Stoneham’s arguments, however much he hated to part with a man of such playing and managerial ability as the Rajah. Hornsby and McGraw had got along beautifully. They admired each other greatly and worked hand in glove, and the idea of their conflicting in the future over the management of the team is untenable.

The idea that Hornsby’s litigation over race track debts had much to do with the trade is now discounted by baseball men, except that it might have intensified Mr. Stoneham’s determination to get rid of Hornsby.

[Bench 5]

LA Times, January 13, 1928
The New York Journal says that the ‘underworld’ has been instructed to “get” Rogers Hornsby who has been traded to the Boston Braves by the Giants in the most mysterious trade in the history of baseball. A “price” that is reported to range between $10,000 and $25,000 is the prize for the gangster who does the “job.” The man who is behind the job—the man who wants the great ballplayer either killed or so crippled that he never will be able to play again - is said to be one of the biggest bookmakers in the country.

The bookmaker’s reason for desiring for the destruction of Hornsby is to seek revenge for an alleged welching of wagers by the diamond star for an amount said to exceed $70,000.

There is no doubt as to the veracity of this story. M. W. (Bill) Corurn, creator of tile famous sports column in the Evening Journal, was the flrst member of this newspaper’s staff to learn of it. He was tipped off yesterdey afternoon by one of the biggest bootleggers in the country, a partner of New York’s biggest whisky runner, who now is servIng time in the Federal prison at Atlanla,Ga.

Through connections — purely newspaper connections – and not social - this writer verified Corum’s discovery. Gangsters on the East Side and others on the Lower West Side know that the order has gone out to “get” Hornsby, and there is going to be a grand scramble to get that big money prize.
Is it possible that Charles A. Stoneham knows of that threat? If he does did he want to unload Hornsby and get whatever the market offered? And has the good old Judge Fuchs and his partners in the Boston club bought an asset that may never have any value to them?

There is going to be a sweeping investigation of the Hornsby trade by Judge K. M. Landis, high commissioner of baseball, who is reported to be either in New York or Boston today. Landis mysteriously disappeared from Chicago immediately after the news of the trade broke and newspapers in the Windy City came out in their news and editorial columns demanding a thorough probe by the czar of baseball.

The Judge could not.be located at any of the leading hotels here today and Boston scribes have been unable to find him in the Hub, but from Chicago come authentic reports that he was seen boarding a train for the East.

New York Times January 13, 1928
ST. LOUIS, Jan. 1 (,4.—The real reason why the New York Giants traded Rogers Hornsby to the Boston Braves apparently was as much a mystery to Hornsby tonight as it was when the trade was announced two nights ago.
Hornsby reiterated his surprise that Manager John McGraw, whom he still considers his friend, would consent to the trade which Charles Stoneham, President of the Giants declared, was to prevent future conflict in the management.

”1 doubt whether McGraw had anything to do with the trade except to grant what Stoneham demanded.” Hornsby said.

Referring to reports from New York that McGraw had not been pleased with the manner in which Hornsby won his recent suit from Frank Moore, Kentucky betting commissioner, Hornsby said McGraw had advised him to follow the course he did. ”McGraw.” he said, “advised me not to settle with Moore under any circumstances.”

Moore’s suit, originally for $92,000 and later reduced to $37,000, was to recover amounts he alleged he advanced to Hornsby and Mrs. Hornsby on horse race bets and lost. A jury, by a ten to two vote, found in favor of Hornsby who fought the suit on the ground that he transactions were in the nature of gambling and therefore inadmissible at law. He denied he owed Moore anything. Hornsby said Secretary Jim Tierney was the only Giant official with whom his relations had not always been friendly. He had a minor tiff with Tierney over passes, he said, but he did not consider this had any connection with his trade to Boston. Hornsby said he knew nothing about rumors that he might be traded by Boston to the Chicago Cubs for Hazen Cuyler, former Pirate outfielder. So far as he knew, he said, he would report to the Braves’ training camp in Florida this Spring. "



As an aside, in 1928, McGraw and Hornsby were named in a report as having been involved in a race betting scandal at Arlington Park in Arlington Heights, Illinois. Note that Landis subsequently absolved McGraw and Hornsby of the accusations.
Washington Post, September 15, 1928
CHICAGO, Sept. 4 (A.P.). — "Two leaders of the baseball world, John McGraw, manager of the New York Giants, and Rogers Hornsby, manager of the Boston Braves, made emphatic and complete denials today of charges they had participated in betting on “fixed” horse races at the Arlington Park track through information alleged to have been supplied them by C. B. Allen, one of the leading jockeys of the West. McGraw and Hornsby telegraphed to Kenesaw Mountain Landis, baseball commissioner, that neither bad violated the rules against baseball players wagering on horse races. Each denied knowing Jockey Allen or having communicated with him.
Commissioner Landis said he must necessarily make an investigation, but that he was inclined to believe both McGraw and Hornsby.
The charge, which the baseball managers deny and which Allen said he could disprove, is that the Jockey rented an apartment in the exclusive Lincoln Park District and there used the long distance telephone to convey tips to McGraw and Hornsby, among others, whose names were not mentioned, running up a telephone bill of $559.07."

[Bench 5]

LA Times, February 5, 1929 by Rogers Hornsby
"If I hadn’t known that sunshine always follows storm I believe I would have quit baseball that winter of 1927-1928 when I got the biggest shock of my career. After that pleasant season with the Giants in 1927, I returned to my home in St. Louis. The future looked bright. I was happy and Mrs. Hornsby and I began planning to buy a country home, as both of us like country best. While we were in the midst of our plans a St. Louis reporter called me on the telephone one evening.

“What’s this about you being traded to the Boston Braves?” he asked.
“Oh, they’re trading me again, are they?” I replied, thinking the part was a joke on the part of the reporter.

‘Listen Rogers, this seems to be m the square:’ he answered. “The announcement was made officially this afternoon In New York. We got it straight.”

“But that can’t be true,” I exclaimed. “You’re only kidding, aren’t you?” I still couldn’t believe there was any truth in it... “I don’t know a thing about it,” I said, finally realizing the reporter was serious.

A few minutes later my telephone rang again, and Judge Fuchs, president of the Braves, was on the other end of the wire. Sure enough, it was true. I had been traded, though is seemed impossible. Then I was officially informed by the New York club of the deal, and the only explanation was that the trade was for the best interests of the New York team. I tried to figure out a reason. I felt, convinced I hadn’t been traded because of disappointment over my playing. I had had a good year, had hit nearly as well as ever. I had driven in more runs than anyone else on the team.

I couldn’t believe, as some writers indicated, that McGraw was jealous of me because the team had been successful while I handled it during his absence. I couldn’t believe for a minute McGraw had anything to do with the deal. We had been too friendly.

Next I thought of trouble I had had with gamblers. I don’t know yet that this had anything to do trading me to Boston. But I want to say something right here about that experience in my life, even though I feel it had no part in my baseball career.

I did play the horses. That began while I was still with the St. Louis club. I guess I got to playing ‘em just as a hobby. You see I didn’t drink or smoke. I never cared for parties, and probably I craved something as a diversion from baseball. Anyway, I got a kick out of playing the horses.

I never dreamed of such a thing getting me into trouble. I never thought of the horses when I was on the ball-field. A man I thought was a good friend of mine was a big operator on the tracks. My credit with St. Louis bookmakers was good. I was able to place his money with them. Then later, he brought suit against me, contending that money had been lent to me. I told my story to the jury. The jury acquitted me. That’s all there is to the story.

I was taught a lesson—that it is wise to have nothing to with race tracks and gambling – and the way I feel now, after my experiences, I am not likely to have any more dealings with them.

As I said before, the announcement of my transfer to Boston was such a surprise that I felt disgusted with the game and wanted to quite baseball. But, also, as I said before Mrs. Hornsby and I had keen planning on that country home, and to carry out the plan I felt compelled to stay in the game and get the money to finance it. So we bought the country home and I went to Boston."

[Bench 5]

That's all of the main posts that I had input originally. I have some more posts that I had planned on adding but didn't have time. I should have some articles regarding the trade from the Braves to the Cubbies soon. I found a cache of the whole thread and was able to cut and paste to word. This contains the entire original thread in word. Feel free to open and cut and paste your posts as you see fit.

[Bench 5]

LA Times, February 10, 1929 In the words of Rajah
"Now the sun is shining again. The future is inviting. - I have my country home. I’m happy among my chickens and dogs and cattle and horses. I’m going to play ball with the Cubs, and it looks as if we have a chance to win the pennant. The deal announced last November sending me from Boston to Chicago after one season with the Braves, was not a shock to me, nor was it much of a surprise to anyone. But I must say here that it was not at all unpleasant playing ball in Boston, especially for such a man as Judge Fuchs, president of the Braves. He is one of the finest characters I ever met in the game and I’m sorry to leave him. But I know it is best for all concerned. I think I really had a hand in making that deal with Chicago. I advised Judge Fuchs to make it. I soon realized that my presence couldn’t make a winner of the Braves. I knew the club needed several more players and needed money to get them .I felt sure that the Braves could make deal for me that would give them two or three good players, and some cash to buy others.

Near the close of last season 1 went to Judge Fuchs: “Judge.” I said, “you can’t get anywhere with me, and much as I like to work for you I think that you ought to trade me while I’m still young. My presence alone can’t win for the Braves. Why don’t you see what. kind of a deal you can mako with the Cubs?”

The Judge and I had become close friends. Our associations were most pleasant. The only tlung I had against them was that Judge Fuchs was continually wanting me to go to dinners with him, or down to the beach into social life, arid I never could do those things and play ball at the same time.
I used to say to him, “Judge, it would be nice to go with you on these parties but you’re forgetting that you hired me to play baIl. I need a lot of sleep and rest between games.”

Well, the Judge saw the wisdom of this, and he saw the wisdom of my suggestion of a trade. He talked with Mr. Veeck, president of the Cubs. Mr. Veeck talked with his manager, Joe McCarthy. They must have wanted me, because the deal was quickly arranged, arid soon after you read this story I’ll be wearing a Chicago uniform and practicing with the Cubs in their training camp on Catalina Island.

Some of my friends thought I would be disappointed in losing out as a manager, and being reduced to the ranks of a player. I can say truthfully that never have I cared to be a manager. I didn’t want to in St. Louis, nor did I want it in Boston. I don’t care for the honor of being a leader as long as I can get the money as a mere player. I think I’ll be able to play better baseball than ever, through being relieved of the cares and worries of managing a team.

McCarthy is a leader I admired for three years he has been in the National League as a manager. He simply compelled us to admire him, because each year he took a team that few of us figured had any chance in a pennant race, and made things hot for us. He must be a great leader. I never saw a ball team hustle lmore than the Cubs, since be took command. I can’t say that I know McCarthy very well, but I am looking forward with keen interest to working for him.

What. the future has in store I can only guess. But I am eager for it. I think the Cubs have a chance this year. The pitching still is strong und well-balanced. Perhap the team needed additional hittiing strength. If I cun supply it, we ought to be in the pennant fight. I know the loyalty of Chicago fans and I have many friends in the city. I made many friends ini St Louis. Now York and Boston, too. Now I shall be battling against St. Louis and New York and Boston but I hope all my friends will stick with me."

------------------------Picture of Hornsby with the two players that he was traded for: Percy Lee Jones and Freddy Maguire.

[Bench 5]

New York Times, August 5, 1932

"SAM BREADON started it. Sam owns the Cardinals, and in 1925 with great regret, be removed Branch Rickey from the managership of that club. The Cardinals were away down yonder in the lower reaches of the National League, and slipping further day by clay. So Sam called Branch Rlckey in and said:

“Branch, you’re a great fellow and a. smart fellow, but we’ll go right through the bottom of the league if you continue as manager. Let’s make a change. You come into the office with me and. we’ll put somebody else out there as boss on the field.”

Rickey agreed. He went into the office with Breadon. He built up the Cardinal chain-store system. He is still Breadon’s right-hand man in baseball affairs.
From 1920 through 1925 Rogers Hornsby was the clouting king of the National League and a fairly good second baseman into the bargain, barring a tendency to go through awkward shadow-boxing bouts with high infield files. He was the man Breadon picked to lead the seventh-place Cardinals upward and onward. He was big and forceful. He had driving power. He knew baseball.

His First Exit
Rogers Hornsby was appointed manager of the Cardinals, and in a year and a half he led the team from seventh place to a world’s championship over the great Yankee team of that era. A magnificent performance; an outstanding exhibition of leadership. It was the first pennant St. Louis had won since time when the memory of man runneth not to the contrary, and Hornsby was the idol of the Mound City.

Breadon fired him. Oh, yes, it’s down in the records that he was traded to the Giants for Frank Frlsch and Jimmy Ring and, on a playing basis, the Cardmais got. the better of the bargain. But Rogers Hornsby, the manager who had brought the club from seventh place to a world’s championship in a year and a half, was fired just the same.

Why? Well, Sam Breadon simply couldn’t get along with him; couldn’t even talk to him, in fact. When It came time for their final argument over financial matters, Breadon told a friend that he would rather go into the ring and fight Jack Dempsey than go into the room and argue with Rogers Hornsby.

Hornsby came to New York and Sam Breadon was nearly ruined in St. Louis. He was called an ingrate all around the town. His fellow-citizens shunned him. The Chamber of Commerce censured him. Sam bristled up and fought back. A fine time was had by all.

In New York
Hornsby did well in a Giant uniform. He was a powerful hitter. He was a great admirer of John McGraw. He still is. McGraw liked him, too, and probably still does. When McGraw was laid up and couldn’t go on the road with the team, he appointed Horusby acting manager and the club did good work under Hornsby’s leadership. For the season of 1927 Hornsby hit .361. which is lusty clouting in any league. Before the following season began, Hornsby was fired again. The records have it that he was traded to the Boston Braves for Jimmy Welsh and Frank Hogan. That’s only part of the answer. Charles A.
Stoneham, owner of the Giants, was going to send Hornsby away, no matter what it cost him. He didn’t want Hornsby on his club.

Once again Hornsby had been a success and once again he had been pushed out the front door. Why? Well, Horusby was a fellow who was brutally frank of speech and absoluteiy sure of his own wisdom in baseball affairs. The story around the ball park was that the office questioned some of the moves he had made on the diamond and Hornsby retorted with a burning blast that peeled the paint off the office furniture.

Eased Out
Jack Slattery was manager of the Braves when Hornsby reported at the St. Petersburg training camp in 1928. Any one could forecast what was about to happen. Slattery had no big-league experience as manager. Hornsby had been a striking success in St. Louis. In May, 1928, Siattery “resigned” as manager and Hornsby took his place.

The Rajah did about as well as any manager could have done with the Braves,of that season. In addition, he hit .387 and regained the batting crown of the National League. So it might be put down as a good year for him. He was traded that Winter to the Chicago Cubs.

Now, Judge Emil Fuchs was friendly with Hornsby, and Hornsby was friendly wIth Judge Fuchs. The Cubs gave a whole flock of players and a bundle of cash for the big hitter. Judge Fuchs says he didn’t fire Hornsby. But he let him go. He must have thought that Hornsby was a leader when he made him manager. He knew he was a great hitter. Hornsby was the league batting champion that year. The boom was on at that time. Judge Fuchs was ready to spend money to build up his club. Yet he let Hornsby go. To this day Judge Fuchs, a diplomat, simply smiles when questioned about it, and changes the conversation.

The Fourth Out
President Bill Veeck of the Chicago Cubs was a great rooter for Hornsby. There are some who say that the Rajah “undermined” Joe McCarthy in Chicago, but that isn’t like Hornsby. He wouldn’t even bother about it. But Bill Veeck and the late William Wrigley Jr. began to criticize Marse Joe McCarthy when it became evident that the Cubs were not going to win in 1930. There was also the sad world’s series of 1929 fresh in their minds, the series in which the Cubs were slaughtered by the Athletics.

McCarthy had made a great record as a manager with the Cubs, but he could see what was coming. He stepped out and Hornsby was ushered in. The McCarthy rooters—and their name was legion—stormed and booed, but Bill Veeck was beaming and William Wrigley Jr. was delighted.

It’s the belief in baseball circles that Hornsby was doing well with the Cubs when Bill Veeck, the man who put him in, stepped up the other day and put him out.

So the record of Hornsby is that they admired him, they went after him, they got him, he did well—and they fired him, one after the other. As they say in baseball: That’s one for the book. "

[Bench 5]

Washington Post - April 6, 1953

Hornsby Tough? , 'Easygoing' He Says

CHARLOTTE, N. C., April 4.— "Rogers Hornsby says those stories you have been teading about him aren’t true. “I’m not a strict manager,” he says. “In fact, I'd say I’m one of the easiest to get along with. I’m not nearly as demanding as a lot of managers I know.”

The Rajah Is getting ready. for his first full season with the Cincinnati Reds. It’s his sixth major league managerial assignment. He has seldom been able to keep a job for a long stretch. His bosses usually accuse him of being too strict a disciplinarian and lacking tact in dealing with his players.

Last year, Bill Veeck hired him to manage the St Louis Browns: “We need a tough guy at the helm,” said Veeck. About three months later, Veeck fired Hornsby because he allegedly was too tough and the Brownie
darlings wouldn’t play ball for him.

ONE OF HORNSBY’S crimes was his insistence that any pitcher knocked out of the box be required to sit out the rest of the game on the bench instead of taking the customary immediate shower.

“I guess I’m still guilty of that,” confessed Hornsby yesterday. “I still insist on that. I want any pitcher who had to be taken out to sit on the bench and watch his successor. Maybe he’ll learn by watching what he had been doing wrong. He’ll never learn under a warm shower in the clubhouse. I have always believed that club house is good for only two things; 1) it’s a place for ballplayers to change clothes and 2) a place to hold team meetings. It’s no place to be during a ball game.

“I want everybody on the bench for the whole game. That goes for pinch-hitters too. I want my regulars out on the field to know, that the whole squad is rooting for them. If I were a regular, I would want it that way. Besides, the fellows on the bench might spot some weakness that my coaches have missed.

“I don’t think that’s asking too much.

"I DON’T ASK my boys to report for two workouts a day like some managers do. I don’t think a player can key himself up for two all out practice sessions in a day. You get one good practice and one poor one, that way.

“I don’t order batting practice after ball games like some managers do after their team was shut out (an apparent reference to Al Lopez of Cleveland and Paul Richards of the White Sox.)

“Boy, If they think i’m tough, they should have played under Branch Rickey or John McGraw. Those managers used to call each player’s room at 11 o’clock every night to see if he-was obeying the training curfew.

“I don’t believe in that. My players are mature big leaguers. They’re grown men. They should know how to keep training rules without that kind of checking. They owe it to themselves and the fans to keep fit.

“In short, I don’t demand any more of my players than I would want any manager to demand of me if I were still playing.”

HORNSBY, USUALLY regarded as the greatest all-time righthanded hitter, is greying rapidly and he’s getting thick around the waist. He’s 57 years old. But he still likes to take that bat in hand and take his cut in batting practice.
“Usually, I bring a couple of rookies out to the park with me before the regulars report and stage a hitting demonstration for the young fellows,” he says. “I don’t mind saying I can still bit that ball. Only trouble is my legs and wrists are getting old. After five minutes of batting, I’m tired and my wrists won’t snap like I want them to.”

As late as 12 years ago when he was pushing 45, Hornsby was able to come out of the coaching box at Chattanooga and pinch-hit a home run.

He was one of the first to be elected to the Hall of Fame and is jealous of the honor from his appraisal of today’s crop of big league hitters.

“I GUESS Stan MUSIAL is the best of the lot,” says Hornsby, “but he has a long way to go before he can qualify for the Hall of Fame in my book.” Even with Musial’s five National League batting championships?

“Yeah,” he says, ‘look at the kind of average he led the league with last year, .335 or something. In my time, we’d have been lucky to land in the first 10 with that kind of mark.”