Could this be the worst Rays team ever?

**raysnbran** · 03-17-2007, 12:09 PM

Judging by a 2-14 spring training record, you might think so, but there is too much good young talent to think that the bats won't come alive eventually. We were all worried that it would be the pitching that would doom this years team, especially with no additions to the bullpen where we ended up losing so many games in 2006. But the starters have been decent so far, and there are enough contenders for the 6th through 8th inning situations that it has to be an improvement over last year. Being in the toughest division in baseball will spell last place again, but if the new DRO is being honest, this should be the worst and things should gradually improve in the next few years in terms of spending money wisely where it is needed.

**Spazz** · 03-17-2007, 12:35 PM

No offense. I seriously mean that. No offense intended. But the D'rays are quite possibly the best example of why we really need to look at contraction. Lets do away with the D'Rays in the AL and the Marlins in the NL and keep Florida as a spring training attraction. As for regular season baseball, well let's just face facts here.... A Florida team couldn't attract an audience of over 6500 if Sandy Koufax was scheduled to be starting pitcher. Sorry dude but facts is facts.

Contract both Florida teams out of MLB. Sooner the better.

**TheKingofKings** · 03-17-2007, 03:11 PM

I wouldn't call a team with Delmon Young, Rocco Baldelli and Carl Crawford a bad team but on the other hand, they do not seem to have any pitching except Kazmir...

**raysnbran** · 03-17-2007, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by Spazz

No offense. I seriously mean that. No offense intended. But the D'rays are quite possibly the best example of why we really need to look at contraction. Lets do away with the D'Rays in the AL and the Marlins in the NL and keep Florida as a spring training attraction. As for regular season baseball, well let's just face facts here.... A Florida team couldn't attract an audience of over 6500 if Sandy Koufax was scheduled to be starting pitcher. Sorry dude but facts is facts.

Contract both Florida teams out of MLB. Sooner the better.

Before contracting the Rays, give the fans something worth going to the ballpark to see. 9 years of 100 loss seasons, with a transient fan base that moved here from somewhere else and refuse to support a losing team and continue to root for the team from where they came from- what do you expect? 3 million fans a year? Lemmings or sheep that flock to the stadium, like you Cubs fans do, year after year without a championship? At least the Marlins have won something, actually 2 championships in their 14 years of existence.

And seriously, dude, no offense...

Yankeebiscuitfan · 03-18-2007, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by raysnbran

Before contracting the Rays, give the fans something worth going to the ballpark to see. 9 years of 100 loss seasons, with a transient fan base that moved here from somewhere else and refuse to support a losing team and continue to root for the team from where they came from- what do you expect? 3 million fans a year? Lemmings or sheep that flock to the stadium, like you Cubs fans do, year after year without a championship? At least the Marlins have won something, actually 2 championships in their 14 years of existence.

And seriously, dude, no offense...

I oppose against contraction. But you have to admit that Florida doesn't really support baseball, with Jacksonville as an exception...

If the results will be disappointing again this year, it might mean that talented guys like Niemann, Brignac, Talbot and Longoria will be rushed through the system. And I wonder if that is good for their development.

**raysnbran** · 03-24-2007, 09:53 AM

All four of the guys you mentioned will start the year at Durham in AAA. No longer will prospects be rushed to the big leagues before they are ready. It has possibly ruined Upton's career before it even started. No more sense of entitlement from young players who don't deserve to be here, but were here because the veterans stunk. Everything will be based on the performance on the field. Even players like Gomes, Cantu and McClung might not make the 25 man roster. Dukes has earned a spot on the team, and with Baldelli and Crawford battling hamstrings and a groin, he might be the opening day CF. Vets like Wigginton and Norton will provide leadership and direction. The NDRO has promised to begin adding to the payroll next season and expect to begin being competitive every season after that.

Yankeebiscuitfan · 03-25-2007, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by raysnbran

All four of the guys you mentioned will start the year at Durham in AAA. No longer will prospects be rushed to the big leagues before they are ready. It has possibly ruined Upton's career before it even started. No more sense of entitlement from young players who don't deserve to be here, but were here because the veterans stunk. Everything will be based on the performance on the field. Even players like Gomes, Cantu and McClung might not make the 25 man roster. Dukes has earned a spot on the team, and with Baldelli and Crawford battling hamstrings and a groin, he might be the opening day CF. Vets like Wigginton and Norton will provide leadership and direction. The NDRO has promised to begin adding to the payroll next season and expect to begin being competitive every season after that.

I hope you are right. An AL championship will be too much to ask, but it would be nice if the Rays could contend for most of the season.

One minor detail... Longoria will start at Montgomery this year.

**skeletor** · 03-25-2007, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by Spazz

No offense. I seriously mean that. No offense intended. But the D'rays are quite possibly the best example of why we really need to look at contraction. Lets do away with the D'Rays in the AL and the Marlins in the NL and keep Florida as a spring training attraction. As for regular season baseball, well let's just face facts here.... A Florida team couldn't attract an audience of over 6500 if Sandy Koufax was scheduled to be starting pitcher. Sorry dude but facts is facts.

Contract both Florida teams out of MLB. Sooner the better.

actually, that might be a good thing, as both teams, can't draw squat
over a 81 game home season..Then again, perhaps if both teams especially
Tampa Bay, had a decent team, fans might find a real reason to come to
the park..if not, Detroit will gladly take some of the minor league talent
that both florida & tampa bay, has...

despite a lackluster ST, this might be a decent season for the D-Rays..

**Eddiey** · 03-26-2007, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by skeletor

actually, that might be a good thing, as both teams, can't draw squat
over a 81 game home season..Then again, perhaps if both teams especially
Tampa Bay, had a decent team, fans might find a real reason to come to
the park..if not, Detroit will gladly take some of the minor league talent
that both florida & tampa bay, has...

despite a lackluster ST, this might be a decent season for the D-Rays..

Both the Marlins and the Rays have had problems that make it unfair to determine whether or not Florida will support baseball. In the Marlins case, their stadium sucks for baseball. Florida summers are hot and muggy and there is always the chance of a rain delay due to the frequent summer storms. Dolphins Stadium is not a fun place to watch baseball. The Rays problems begin with the lousy management they had the first 8 or so years of their existence. Management alienated the business community and the fans. They made lousy signings and pretty much did nothing right. The new management at least appears to have a plan. Only time will tell for sure, but they do seem to be determined to nurture their home grown talent. A good beginning. The other problem is the location of Tropicana Field. Its in St. Petersburg. It should have been built on the eastern edge of Tampa near Interstate 4. That location would have been much easier for the majority of the population to reach and also would have been less then 90 minutes from Orlando. That said, I do think if the Rays put a competitive team on the field they will draw crowds. Look at the Tampa Bay Bucs. They couldn't draw flies but once they became competitive the fans supported them and still do.

**brooklynboy** · 03-27-2007, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by Eddiey

Both the Marlins and the Rays have had problems that make it unfair to determine whether or not Florida will support baseball. In the Marlins case, their stadium sucks for baseball. Florida summers are hot and muggy and there is always the chance of a rain delay due to the frequent summer storms. Dolphins Stadium is not a fun place to watch baseball. The Rays problems begin with the lousy management they had the first 8 or so years of their existence. Management alienated the business community and the fans. They made lousy signings and pretty much did nothing right. The new management at least appears to have a plan. Only time will tell for sure, but they do seem to be determined to nurture their home grown talent. A good beginning. The other problem is the location of Tropicana Field. Its in St. Petersburg. It should have been built on the eastern edge of Tampa near Interstate 4. That location would have been much easier for the majority of the population to reach and also would have been less then 90 minutes from Orlando. That said, I do think if the Rays put a competitive team on the field they will draw crowds. Look at the Tampa Bay Bucs. They couldn't draw flies but once they became competitive the fans supported them and still do.

I agree on the nuturing home grown talent

However, how long do we wait? 1 years, 2, 5? Perhaps if the current ownership would show some better commitment than a Japanese third baseman that if playing a full season, could SO 200 times easily...

**Eddiey** · 03-27-2007, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by brooklynboy

I agree on the nuturing home grown talent

However, how long do we wait? 1 years, 2, 5? Perhaps if the current ownership would show some better commitment than a Japanese third baseman that if playing a full season, could SO 200 times easily...

How long do we wait? This is the new management teams second year. They had nothing to do with the previous 9 years of bad management. In my mind this might as well be Year 2 of the Devilrays existence. Re Iwamura. By todays standards he comes to the Rays inexpensively. Its worth taking a shot with him. Theres no much to lose. Re free agency. I had really hoped the Rays could have picked up 1 or 2 proven starters this past winter but not at the salaries that were given out. This past winter was a winter of insanity and I'll bet my shirt that many of the clubs that are paying the exorbitant salaries will soon regret it. The Rays did the right thing to go with what they already had. The only two pitchers that might play up to their new contracts are Jason Schmidt and Barry Zito. Thats a big maybe considering Jason Schmidt's age and the physical problems both have recently experienced. Guys like that are good signings for teams that think they can win now. A Schmidt or Zito would not make the Rays contenders.

**brooklynboy** · 03-30-2007, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Eddiey

How long do we wait? This is the new management teams second year. They had nothing to do with the previous 9 years of bad management. In my mind this might as well be Year 2 of the Devilrays existence. Re Iwamura. By todays standards he comes to the Rays inexpensively. Its worth taking a shot with him. Theres no much to lose. Re free agency. I had really hoped the Rays could have picked up 1 or 2 proven starters this past winter but not at the salaries that were given out. This past winter was a winter of insanity and I'll bet my shirt that many of the clubs that are paying the exorbitant salaries will soon regret it. The Rays did the right thing to go with what they already had. The only two pitchers that might play up to their new contracts are Jason Schmidt and Barry Zito. Thats a big maybe considering Jason Schmidt's age and the physical problems both have recently experienced. Guys like that are good signings for teams that think they can win now. A Schmidt or Zito would not make the Rays contenders.

Eddiey, I totally agree with you on the FA issue...Yes salaries are totally outrageous and some will pan out, some won't..I'm not sure I agree on the
Year 2 philosophy though.Seems the management could do something to shore up the inherited talent. What'll happen when some of our talent reaches
arbitration level??

**raysnbran** · 03-30-2007, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by brooklynboy

Eddiey, I totally agree with you on the FA issue...Yes salaries are totally outrageous and some will pan out, some won't..I'm not sure I agree on the
Year 2 philosophy though.Seems the management could do something to shore up the inherited talent. What'll happen when some of our talent reaches
arbitration level??

Friedman has already been quoted as saying raises for those players have already beem budgeted. First to get paid will be Kazmir.

**tonypug** · 03-30-2007, 07:24 PM

How quick we are to condem the Rays for a slow spring training start. They turned things around at the right time, just before the regular season starts. Miami and Tampa Bay should not be compared. Miami doesn't draw fans even when they win. Both the Tampa Bay Bucs and lightening struggled to draw fans. They became winners, and now you can't buy a ticket to many games. The Rays will draw fans once they turn things around.This year should be a very interesting year on the field. A positive was the cutting of Dan Micelli. Ownership showed they are willing to admit they made a mistake giving him a three year deal and eating the contract. Its funny most of the bashing and calls for contraction come from fans of other teams.

**Senior skittles** · 04-06-2007, 03:38 PM

Are you kidding me?? They are gonna be great this year, Ive been waiting along time too!!

**tonypug** · 04-06-2007, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by Senior skittles

Are you kidding me?? They are gonna be great this year, Ive been waiting along time too!!

I don't know about great. But they will be exciting , interesting and if Reyes can save some games, competitive.

**brooklynboy** · 04-08-2007, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by tonypug

I don't know about great. But they will be exciting , interesting and if Reyes can save some games, competitive.

Great?? Interesting yes, but Great???

**tonypug** · 04-08-2007, 02:43 PM

I just arrived home from watching the Rays- Jays at Tropicana Field. There is an excitement with the team this year. Even though they lost today, it was a funn time and a good game. Kazmir started out like a house on fire, but made two mistakes that became home runs that cost him the game.Tropicana has a different feel this year, much more fan friendly, and I have been going since the beginning.

**raysnbran** · 04-10-2007, 10:42 AM

Some different faces, but same results. The starters for the most part have held their own, except for Fossum's opening start. The hitters are scoring runs, but once the starter is removed, the bullpen, mainly Camp and Lugo are terrible. We need some dependable relievers to get to Reyes, who appears to be the veteran prescense we need in the pen to close the deal.