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Thread: Female Ump to Work MLB Exhibition Game

  1. #26
    NotAboutEgo Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by digglahhh View Post
    Well, I'm of the opinion that we should try our best to be courteous and respectful to women and men, not because they are women or men, but because that's the way I'd like to be treated. I've actually had more than one experience in which I did something nice for a woman, such as held the door or offered to help carrying heavy packages and was looked at as a sexist for it. You have to be cautious about being overly defensive yourself, NAE. The respect line is tricky to walk and prematurely ascribing motives to the actions of others is often a recipe for misunderstanding. Respect for all, as people, is the call!

    The second base umpire blew the call in yesterday's Bal/Min game when he called Morneau out at second on that ball he hit off the baggy in right. The 3B coach also blew the call by not sending Mauer on that same play. He blew another one when he sent Morneau on the play where he was gunned down trying to score and collided with Bako. So, he had a bad game and he's a guy. Somewhere in the stands, some woman probably blew the scoring of the play in her scorebook, and so did some kid, and a couple of Jewish guys and several men over six feet tall...

    See the problem, just like my story about the woman thinking I'm a chauvinist for holding the door, all this crap is anecdotal.

    To quote the signature of one of the Stats forum regulars, Pizzacutter, "the plural of anecdote is not data."
    I apologize for not making my point more clear. I wasn't calling you a chauvinist. Rather, I was making a comment that is related to what you said about treating everyone equally. I agree with you 100% on what you said. What I'm saying is, I hate it when guys think they need to hold the door open for a person or help them in some way, just because she's a woman, and he thinks it means she needs his help just because she's a woman.

    Again, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

  2. #27
    NotAboutEgo Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by JeepingBaseball View Post
    To the men who were raised that way, hold open doors, pays the check, ect ect... you're a rare breed these days. Nice to see some still exist out there. Now, I'm a women and I like to take care of myself. I like doing things my way and dont care for someone to try to help me when Im quite capable of doing it myself. Would it rile me up if a man opens a door for me? No... not at all. A quick scan, and i can decide in 10 seconds if I want to flirt with him or not

    Common sense and respect for all, is all these type of men are doing. I highly doubt they think women are soooooo weak, they cant open a door for themselves. For those men, I have a great deal of respect for. We need more people in the world like that and perhaps maybe there would be less bickering and arguing. Personally, I rather see the respect and smiles and thank you's over the ugliness of anger, hostility, and verbal slander.

    This really has nothing to do with baseball at all. In any shape or form.
    I think it's fine if a guy wants to open the door for a woman or a man or a child. To me, that's respect. What I have a problem with is when a guy refuses to let a woman open a door for him, even if he is a gentleman and isn't chauvinistic (In a way, it is being chauvinistic, even if he's not trying to be). It happens to me all the time.

    If a guy is a true gentleman, he will be a gentleman with everyone... like Digglahhh stated... not just with women.

  3. #28
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    Thumbs up Realistic....

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Jaw View Post
    That part of me will never change. I was raised a gentleman and will always be that. Over the years I've found that most women appreciate the respect.....the chivalry. Knightly virtues, honour and courtly love. That's the real me. And at 51 years of age, I can't really be expected to change my ways.
    Please don't! As an older female, sometimes with a cane, I expect from anyone capable the courtesy of an opened door. If I see an older person that needs help, or a parent looking a bit overwhelmed, I help. If I see a group walking four or five abreast on the side walk, I may just stop walking, may make a joke, make it clear in a nice way they need to be more considerate.

    If I'm bumped because someone is in a hurry, or I see a vunerable person not given enough space, I am not happy, let people know it.

    People with respect and courtesy should be treated the same way. If the guy with 50 packages tries, let him know politely, "I've got it."

    I may notice a gentleman that I think should have the door opened for him. But be careful. Your smile and thank you will mean a lot to him. If you insist on doing it yourself, feelings may be hurt.

    Baseball: If I'm lucky enough to be at a game, and some nitwit walks blocks my view of Ortiz at bat, I may not be a lady. I will watch my language, because there are children at ballgames. I know enough words to get my point across without being coarse.
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  4. #29
    NotAboutEgo Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousBoston View Post
    Please don't! As an older female, sometimes with a cane, I expect from anyone capable the courtesy of an opened door. If I see an older person that needs help, or a parent looking a bit overwhelmed, I help. If I see a group walking four or five abreast on the side walk, I may just stop walking, may make a joke, make it clear in a nice way they need to be more considerate.

    If I'm bumped because someone is in a hurry, or I see a vunerable person not given enough space, I am not happy, let people know it.

    People with respect and courtesy should be treated the same way. If the guy with 50 packages tries, let him know politely, "I've got it."

    I may notice a gentleman that I think should have the door opened for him. But be careful. Your smile and thank you will mean a lot to him. If you insist on doing it yourself, feelings may be hurt.

    Baseball: If I'm lucky enough to be at a game, and some nitwit walks blocks my view of Ortiz at bat, I may not be a lady. I will watch my language, because there are children at ballgames. I know enough words to get my point across without being coarse.
    Anyone who is in need of help should receive it. I agree with that. I would kindly help you or anyone else if you were in need of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousBoston View Post
    I may notice a gentleman that I think should have the door opened for him. But be careful. Your smile and thank you will mean a lot to him. If you insist on doing it yourself, feelings may be hurt.
    If I have read this correctly... if a guy's feelings are hurt when a woman chooses to open the door for herself, then he has emotions to deal with. I have no problem with a guy (or a woman) who's being courteous enough to open a door for someone. It's the instances where I or another woman get to the door first and hold it open for a guy who follows us, and he refuses to let us open the door for him, or if it's a case like my co-worker who can't ever accept a woman holding a door open for him, regardless of the reason behind it. There is an underlying reason for such a thing to happen, and in my opinion, it stems back to the times when women were told their place was in the home.

    A guy may think he's being respectful to women when he insists on holding the door open for them and never lets the woman open the door for him. I disagree. It's respectful when one holds the door open for everyone.

    I like your style, CuriousBoston.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotAboutEgo View Post
    I apologize for not making my point more clear. I wasn't calling you a chauvinist. Rather, I was making a comment that is related to what you said about treating everyone equally. I agree with you 100% on what you said. What I'm saying is, I hate it when guys think they need to hold the door open for a person or help them in some way, just because she's a woman, and he thinks it means she needs his help just because she's a woman.

    Again, I apologize for the misunderstanding.
    Oh, I didn't think you called me a chauvinist. We've had many exchanges on this forum, surely if you were going to call me a chauvinist, it would have happened already (and probably in no uncertain terms).

    I'm just saying that somebody holding a door open for you or not holding a door open for you can happen for a lot of reasons. "Small sample size" as they say in the Stats Forum.

    I think it is common courtesy to offer help to somebody who looks like they might want some. It is common courtesy for that person to politely refuse the help if they would rather not be helped. And it is common courtesy for the initial offerer to respect the other person's refusal.

    It is also common courtesy to not block the view of David Ortiz's at bat during a baseball game! However, it is also common courtesy to offer to block my view of first base if he makes a cameo on defense...
    Last edited by digglahhh; 04-03-2007 at 02:53 PM.
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  6. #31
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    Exclamation Hee Hee...

    Hey! Ortiz hasn't done too bad at first base. He made one play last year that was good, considering.

    Thank you. Please let all Yankee fans know you appreciate my style.

    When I referred to a guy that might have his feelings hurt, I was thinking of an older man, and not in the work enviroment. In the work enviroment it's tricky ; I might have a private talk with a peer in the same department, and insist he stop. With planning beforehand, talking to one of the other guys, asking a couple of other women, but they gotta be people who can keep their mouths shut. Plan it carefully. If I detected an inkling of "I'm stronger=better", I would have to have a talk.

    A peer from another department, maybe a "That's not necessary, but thank you." My boss, must have a private talk. Gotta keep at front of mind: unless you are positive, you gotta realize they were trained "right".

    If they have reps as backstabbers, egomanics, that's different, call 'em out. One guy from work wanted a date; the grapevine worked, we knew that admin were so many points, techs so many points, managers so many points. He showed up at work Monday with a broken arm. (I warned him twice; good metal door. Had someone waiting in the apartment, too.) I can't imagine why so many people were nervous....ACK! IT'S SNOWING!!!

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  7. #32
    Who in their right mind would wanna be an umpire..... Nah this is totally feasible. If someone wants to ump a game i really dont think gender is much of an issue.

  8. #33
    Of course.... baseball wouldnt sound as good with a female voice saying strike or ball or youre outa there.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigStellyPADRES4LIFE View Post
    Of course.... baseball wouldnt sound as good with a female voice saying strike or ball or youre outa there.
    I'm curious, have you ever been to a game that had a female umpire?

    To me, like a radio announcer, it all depends upon the voice. Perhaps people were raised to expect the male voice in certain situations, of which an ump or announcer (stadium, TV or radio) would be included. However, if the voice isn't very good, is too weak, then that person will have trouble capturing the fans regardless of his/her gender.

    I wouldn't automatically dismiss her outright, and unless she's behind home plate, I won't even hear what she says unless I'm at the stadium. behind 1B and she's the 1B ump.

    So long as she's decisive and fair to both sides, I wouldn't say it's the end of the world of baseball fan enjoyment of a game.
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  10. #35
    NotAboutEgo Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattingly View Post
    I'm curious, have you ever been to a game that had a female umpire?

    To me, like a radio announcer, it all depends upon the voice. Perhaps people were raised to expect the male voice in certain situations, of which an ump or announcer (stadium, TV or radio) would be included. However, if the voice isn't very good, is too weak, then that person will have trouble capturing the fans regardless of his/her gender.

    I wouldn't automatically dismiss her outright, and unless she's behind home plate, I won't even hear what she says unless I'm at the stadium. behind 1B and she's the 1B ump.

    So long as she's decisive and fair to both sides, I wouldn't say it's the end of the world of baseball fan enjoyment of a game.
    Yeah, I agree 100%. I could care less what gender an announcer is. What matters is how good of an announcer they are and how nice their voice is. For example, the Tigers stadium announcer is horrible. He has a very high voice and isn't good in my opinion, and he doesn't get the crowd going at all with his voice and mannerisms.

    On the other hand, the stadium announcer for the White Sox is great. He has a deep voice, and he has a lot of enthusiasm when he speaks and gets everyone going.

    There are plenty of women out there who have great announcing voices. People need to let their inhibitions about most traditions go and free their minds so they can experience and perceive life events free from the limits that they have placed upon themselves.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotAboutEgo View Post
    Yeah, I agree 100%. I could care less what gender an announcer is. What matters is how good of an announcer they are and how nice their voice is. For example, the Tigers stadium announcer is horrible. He has a very high voice and isn't good in my opinion, and he doesn't get the crowd going at all with his voice and mannerisms.

    On the other hand, the stadium announcer for the White Sox is great. He has a deep voice, and he has a lot of enthusiasm when he speaks and gets everyone going.

    There are plenty of women out there who have great announcing voices. People need to let their inhibitions about most traditions go and free their minds so they can experience and perceive life events free from the limits that they have placed upon themselves.
    We Yankee fans had a similar situation when YES started in 2002. Suzyn Waldman did play-by-play for the TV program. Unfortunately, people routinely couldn't stand her hi-pitched voice. In fact, the more respected women forumers I'd asked (on another board), they didn't like her voice either, so it wasn't just a guy thing reacting to her. However, we pretty much all loved her pre- and post-game interviews. She'd been reporting for the Yanks since the '80s, so she wasn't exactly a fly-by-nighter.

    She ended up going from being the "color person" (color man/woman?), and is now doing the radio job Michael Kay did in the past, along with John Sterling. She makes nice comments, her voice isn't so hi-pitched (perhaps she's toned down the "line SHAWT" thing a bit).

    For an ump in general, all I ask for is decisiveness, knowledge of the game, its rules, and being in the right position to make the call as to whether he was safe or out. Since she's done games at 1B and 3B (or was this 1B & 2B?), if the home plate ump isn't sure about a call with a righty batter, to make the call on that pitch not swung at.

    As to herself, all I ask is that she represent women properly and in a very nice way, so that she's seen moreso as a quality ump, and I feel there will likely be other women getting opportunities to be in a position to umpire. Not necessarily in MLB right away, but if seen a few times in AA & AAA, the MLB games won't be too far behind.
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  12. #37
    NotAboutEgo Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattingly View Post
    We Yankee fans had a similar situation when YES started in 2002. Suzyn Waldman did play-by-play for the TV program. Unfortunately, people routinely couldn't stand her hi-pitched voice. In fact, the more respected women forumers I'd asked (on another board), they didn't like her voice either, so it wasn't just a guy thing reacting to her. However, we pretty much all loved her pre- and post-game interviews. She'd been reporting for the Yanks since the '80s, so she wasn't exactly a fly-by-nighter.

    She ended up going from being the "color person" (color man/woman?), and is now doing the radio job Michael Kay did in the past, along with John Sterling. She makes nice comments, her voice isn't so hi-pitched (perhaps she's toned down the "line SHAWT" thing a bit).

    For an ump in general, all I ask for is decisiveness, knowledge of the game, its rules, and being in the right position to make the call as to whether he was safe or out. Since she's done games at 1B and 3B (or was this 1B & 2B?), if the home plate ump isn't sure about a call with a righty batter, to make the call on that pitch not swung at.

    As to herself, all I ask is that she represent women properly and in a very nice way, so that she's seen moreso as a quality ump, and I feel there will likely be other women getting opportunities to be in a position to umpire. Not necessarily in MLB right away, but if seen a few times in AA & AAA, the MLB games won't be too far behind.
    I agree. And once a woman or two make it in the minors and in MLB, when they're allowed to, then more women will be less intimidated to follow in their footsteps if they choose to umpire.

    It's like Captlid said in the other thread... a lot of females would love to continue playing baseball beyond little league and beyond 18 years old, but most don't want to be the only girl on the team, so they either stop playing or they go to fast pitch softball. A lot of people are intimidated in different ways when going outside of the norm to do something they enjoy and love. One way to give women the opportunities they should have is developing our own leagues from tee ball all the way up. Then, there's no reason to not have our own pro league. The same holds true for females who want to umpire.

  13. #38
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    I've been as critical of Stelly as anybody, but I think his comment here was just a pretty innocent joke.
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  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattingly View Post
    Are there any major pro sports in which men play that often have female refs, umps, etc?
    Sandra de Jenken was the chair umpire for this year's Australian Open (tennis) Mens Singles Final. Female chairs are quite prevalent in professional tennis.

  15. #40
    NotAboutEgo Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by TyrusRaymondCobb View Post
    Sandra de Jenken was the chair umpire for this year's Australian Open (tennis) Mens Singles Final. Female chairs are quite prevalent in professional tennis.
    Interesting. That's one sport out of how many?

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    I'm pretty sure the NBA has female officials

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by catbox_9 View Post
    I'm pretty sure the NBA has female officials
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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by TyrusRaymondCobb View Post
    Sandra de Jenken was the chair umpire for this year's Australian Open (tennis) Mens Singles Final. Female chairs are quite prevalent in professional tennis.
    Interesting. I've only noticed the mail chair umpires (of which John McEnroe was more than willing to impart his opinion to) in the men's singles. Any women chair umps in the women's singles of other major tennis games, such as Wimbledon, US Open, etc?

    I don't follow the WNBA, but if there are any there, I wouldn't mind hearing of this, or even if it's college basketball, baseball, etc.
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotAboutEgo View Post
    Interesting. That's one sport out of how many?
    There are a few women soccer referees who officiate the mens game at the highest level, and one or two top women rugby refs have worked top level mens competition recently. Many sports seem to be changing.

    Seems like given the limited number of good umps we'd better look at the "other" 50% of the population.
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  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattingly View Post
    Interesting. I've only noticed the mail chair umpires (of which John McEnroe was more than willing to impart his opinion to) in the men's singles. Any women chair umps in the women's singles of other major tennis games, such as Wimbledon, US Open, etc?
    Gerry Armstrong was the chair who announced the default in 1990 (4th Rd Australian Open McEnroe v Pernfors). 3rd code violation (McEnroe said something totally disgusting to the Grand Slam Supervisor, Ken Farrar (1 step below tournament referee), which I will not repeat here), but even as an isolated incident it would have been enough to get him thrown out.

    Code Violations committed by McEnroe that match:
    1st Code - Unsportsmanlike Behaviour (intimidating stare at female line judge (who also does GS matches in the chair) while bouncing the ball on the strings of his racquet
    2nd Code - Racquet Abuse (cracked the racquet. In those days, a cracked racquet was as bad as a broken one, and pretty much was an automatic Code)
    3rd Code - Audible Obscenity (as described above)
    The Code of Conduct was changed before the Open to be a 3 strikes policy, rather than a 4 strikes policy. It has been somewhat modified nowadays, but not in reaction to the McEnroe incident

    Types of Code of Conduct Violations:
    1. Withdrawal from Tournament
    2. Commencement of Play
    3. Dress and Equipment
    4. Physical Abuse
    5. Verbal Abuse
    6. Unsportsmanlike conduct
    7. Unreasonable delays
    8. Audible Obscenity
    9. Visible Obscenity
    10. Abuse of Racquets or Equipment
    11. Abuse of Balls
    12. Leaving the Court
    13. Rest Period
    14. Best Efforts
    15. Coaching
    16. Spectator Interference

    Chair Umpires do not have the power to default players in 99.995% of cases. They would get the Tournament Referee or Supervisor (if there is one) and explain the situation, who would then make a decision (that's why they get more money!).

    Uually only Gold Badges work the higher rounds of the Grand Slams (Semis & Finals) for singles. There are 12 Gold Badges with full time contracts from the ITF (International Tennis Federation). There are other Gold Badges as well, but maybe only half-a-dozen. To earn one takes a LOT of extremely hard work and willingness to travel globally. Most of the higher level officials do not have a family life from what I have observed, and one or two bad enough mistakes may see you stripped of your badge.

    The hierarchy of ITF badges:
    Gold
    Silver
    Bronze
    White

    White Badges have to be recommended by their National Association from the ranks of the unbadged officials (Chair Umpires & Referees). They then go to a Level 2 school, where they are placed in match situations, and have to pass an examination (pass mark is more than 80%, I think).

    White badges take the same route to earning their Bronze badge, but along the way are assessed by Silver and Gold badge Chairs/Referees. They then go to a Level 3 school, where they are placed in match situations, and have to pass an examination (pass mark is more than 80%, I think).

    Any progress beyond Bronze is marked on various things of which I have no idea. Level 3 is the highest Level school that the ITF runs.

    The vast majority of officials do not have badges. They are the ones who you usually see calling the lines.

    To get back to your question, though, there is no barrier to men umpiring women or vice versa.

    Hopefully this provides a small insight into a different sport ...

  21. #46
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    Ria Cortesio


    It looks like I may be a little late to this discussion, but I wanted to speak up on what I have seen from this umpire.

    I have watched Ria for three seasons in the AA Southern League, and she compares favorably to most of the other umps. She seems to have stronger aspects of her game, getting a good look at the plays and making quick calls.


    As an umpire she is just about par for the course or a little better. She took a fair amount of disrespect in her first couple seasons at this level, but seems to have overcome most of that kind of thing in the past year and a half or so.

    There are certainly umpires in the southern league who are worse!


    Here she is in action as crew chief
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA8thZWDWQs

  22. #47
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    ehh...

    what exactly did she do that was so great in this video? The decision had already been made. Why would you argue with an ejected coach? She just stood there for less than a minute till he finally left and the game resumed shortly after.

    Now if that was a video of her making the call and the coach arguing with her... total different story. She really had nothing to do with this at all.

  23. #48
    NotAboutEgo Guest
    Seeing how MLB umps have really sucked it up lately (for quite a while, actually), most ten year olds could do the job better than most MLB umps. It's not that hard calling pitches behind the plate, yet they make some really assanine calls so they can show their control and authority. This is making MLB go downhill really fast and is cheapening the game.

    Getting back to Ria and any other female umps, people need to focus on their skills and how well they call a game... rather than focusing on the fact that they are females in a male dominated world fighting ignorant and unnecessary stereotypes. Who cares if an ump is a female or a male, as long as they call a good game and are fair to both sides?

    Let's focus on what's important rather than focusing on ignorance.

    P.S. This post is not a comment to the previous two posts; rather, it's my opinion.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeepingBaseball View Post
    ehh...

    what exactly did she do that was so great in this video? The decision had already been made. Why would you argue with an ejected coach? She just stood there for less than a minute till he finally left and the game resumed shortly after.

    Now if that was a video of her making the call and the coach arguing with her... total different story. She really had nothing to do with this at all.



    If you read my post you would have seen that I never claimed anyones greatness, just a chance to see a minor league umpire honing their craft.

    Since most folks have only seen Cortesio on one MLB exhibition game, I thought my vid would be a good way to get another look. Sorry I dont have a video of her reaction to an angry manager leaving a frying pan on homeplate for ya, but I wasnt at that game!



    Ria is the crewchief, and in the altercation between the 1b ump and an ejected manager in the vid, I thought she handled it like a pro. Especially when one considers the fact that the 1b umpire completely blew the call on a ball hit down the line (chalk flew when the ball landed, but was called foul).

    This umpire had missed calls during the series already, and both managers ended up being ejected during the series.

    So what we are seeing here is a crew chief letting a manager have their say about a mistake without it escalating into a problem, and preventing contact. In that situation, there isnt much more that can be asked of an umpire, no matter who they are or what level of play it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DriftersGM View Post
    Ria is the crewchief, and in the altercation between the 1b ump and an ejected manager in the vid, I thought she handled it like a pro. Especially when one considers the fact that the 1b umpire completely blew the call on a ball hit down the line (chalk flew when the ball landed, but was called foul).

    This umpire had missed calls during the series already, and both managers ended up being ejected during the series.

    So what we are seeing here is a crew chief letting a manager have their say about a mistake without it escalating into a problem, and preventing contact. In that situation, there isnt much more that can be asked of an umpire, no matter who they are or what level of play it is.
    Nice post - thanks for the insight.

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