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Thread: Female Ump to Work MLB Exhibition Game

  1. #21
    NotAboutEgo Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by digglahhh View Post
    Okay, I that wasn't completely clear to me. That could easily be my fault.

    It is tough not to feel that way. I know that the old gentlemanly tradition of showing women the utmost respect looms here. Perhaps, the real problem is that us men are too willing to show disrespect to male umpires.

    As amusing as the antics were, Weaver and Martin (not to mention Pinella and others) often appeared as buffoons. We were laughing AT them. That behavior is probably unbecoming in general, regardless of the gender of whom it is directed at.

    I'm just throwing out the idea that a little more incentive to show restraint is probably not necessarily a bad thing.
    I can't stand it when men think they have to show women more respect than they show men. I take great offense when men do that to me. I threw around a few cuss words yesterday at the Tigers game, and this guy in front of me had to make comments about it. I wanted to say, "Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to disturb you... since I'm a female who said a few cuss words!"

    It's time that society let that traditional garbage go. It's so sickening to me. If there are women out there who can't handle equality in that way and who manipulate guys to be that way with them, that's their problem. They are just as much to blame as the male chauvinists out there.

    I also can't stand it when men think they have to open doors for women and when women take advantage of that. I say, whoever gets to the door first opens the door for everyone else who is behind them... respect for all.

  2. #22
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    Well, I'm of the opinion that we should try our best to be courteous and respectful to women and men, not because they are women or men, but because that's the way I'd like to be treated. I've actually had more than one experience in which I did something nice for a woman, such as held the door or offered to help carrying heavy packages and was looked at as a sexist for it. You have to be cautious about being overly defensive yourself, NAE. The respect line is tricky to walk and prematurely ascribing motives to the actions of others is often a recipe for misunderstanding. Respect for all, as people, is the call!

    The second base umpire blew the call in yesterday's Bal/Min game when he called Morneau out at second on that ball he hit off the baggy in right. The 3B coach also blew the call by not sending Mauer on that same play. He blew another one when he sent Morneau on the play where he was gunned down trying to score and collided with Bako. So, he had a bad game and he's a guy. Somewhere in the stands, some woman probably blew the scoring of the play in her scorebook, and so did some kid, and a couple of Jewish guys and several men over six feet tall...

    See the problem, just like my story about the woman thinking I'm a chauvinist for holding the door, all this crap is anecdotal.

    To quote the signature of one of the Stats forum regulars, Pizzacutter, "the plural of anecdote is not data."
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotAboutEgo View Post
    I also can't stand it when men think they have to open doors for women and when women take advantage of that. I say, whoever gets to the door first opens the door for everyone else who is behind them... respect for all.
    That part of me will never change. I was raised a gentleman and will always be that. Over the years I've found that most women appreciate the respect.....the chivalry. Knightly virtues, honour and courtly love. That's the real me. And at 51 years of age, I can't really be expected to change my ways.

  4. #24
    NotAboutEgo Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Jaw View Post
    That part of me will never change. I was raised a gentleman and will always be that. Over the years I've found that most women appreciate the respect.....the chivalry. Knightly virtues, honour and courtly love. That's the real me. And at 51 years of age, I can't really be expected to change my ways.
    I disagree that people "can't" change because of their age. That's an excuse to me. Not trying to beat you up here, but just saying people can change if they want to. I respect that you were brought up that way. At the same time, I don't agree with that perspective.

    One of my co-workers thinks the same way. He's a great guy... always kind and polite and is a great person. Whenever we are coming through the door at the same time, he insists on opening the door for me, and it drives me absolutely crazy! He could have 5 things in his hands, and yet, he still tries to open the door instead of letting me do it for him. He refuses to let me open the door for him.

    I think, from his eyes, he was raised to serve women... and I highly disagree with that point of view. I think everyone needs to respect everyone else, regardless of gender, color, language they speak... whatever.

    Then there are guys who work in my company who are completely chavinistic and won't accept a woman holding a door open for them. That is the worst case I've ever seen!

    When guys think it's their duty, their responsibility, their right, or whatever to have to open doors for women, it really gets to me. I know that your perspective is that you are being a gentleman and all that, and that's fine, and you have the right to see it that way. But, the underlying reason for people/society sending that message stems from the traditional viewpoint that women are weak, and therefore, they need to be taken care of by a man. I don't need to be taken care of by a man. It doesn't mean I don't like men... that's not true at all... believe me. But, I am a completely self-reliant, self-supporting woman, and I don't need anyone to take care of me.

    What does this have to do with baseball? It has to do with it in the way that the whole "power struggle" thing between men and women stems from the traditional belief that women are weaker than men, and so weak in fact, that they need to be taken care of by a man. This is what drives the idea that women can't play baseball and should play softball.

  5. #25
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    To the men who were raised that way, hold open doors, pays the check, ect ect... you're a rare breed these days. Nice to see some still exist out there. Now, I'm a women and I like to take care of myself. I like doing things my way and dont care for someone to try to help me when Im quite capable of doing it myself. Would it rile me up if a man opens a door for me? No... not at all. A quick scan, and i can decide in 10 seconds if I want to flirt with him or not

    Common sense and respect for all, is all these type of men are doing. I highly doubt they think women are soooooo weak, they cant open a door for themselves. For those men, I have a great deal of respect for. We need more people in the world like that and perhaps maybe there would be less bickering and arguing. Personally, I rather see the respect and smiles and thank you's over the ugliness of anger, hostility, and verbal slander.

    This really has nothing to do with baseball at all. In any shape or form.

  6. #26
    NotAboutEgo Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by digglahhh View Post
    Well, I'm of the opinion that we should try our best to be courteous and respectful to women and men, not because they are women or men, but because that's the way I'd like to be treated. I've actually had more than one experience in which I did something nice for a woman, such as held the door or offered to help carrying heavy packages and was looked at as a sexist for it. You have to be cautious about being overly defensive yourself, NAE. The respect line is tricky to walk and prematurely ascribing motives to the actions of others is often a recipe for misunderstanding. Respect for all, as people, is the call!

    The second base umpire blew the call in yesterday's Bal/Min game when he called Morneau out at second on that ball he hit off the baggy in right. The 3B coach also blew the call by not sending Mauer on that same play. He blew another one when he sent Morneau on the play where he was gunned down trying to score and collided with Bako. So, he had a bad game and he's a guy. Somewhere in the stands, some woman probably blew the scoring of the play in her scorebook, and so did some kid, and a couple of Jewish guys and several men over six feet tall...

    See the problem, just like my story about the woman thinking I'm a chauvinist for holding the door, all this crap is anecdotal.

    To quote the signature of one of the Stats forum regulars, Pizzacutter, "the plural of anecdote is not data."
    I apologize for not making my point more clear. I wasn't calling you a chauvinist. Rather, I was making a comment that is related to what you said about treating everyone equally. I agree with you 100% on what you said. What I'm saying is, I hate it when guys think they need to hold the door open for a person or help them in some way, just because she's a woman, and he thinks it means she needs his help just because she's a woman.

    Again, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

  7. #27
    NotAboutEgo Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by JeepingBaseball View Post
    To the men who were raised that way, hold open doors, pays the check, ect ect... you're a rare breed these days. Nice to see some still exist out there. Now, I'm a women and I like to take care of myself. I like doing things my way and dont care for someone to try to help me when Im quite capable of doing it myself. Would it rile me up if a man opens a door for me? No... not at all. A quick scan, and i can decide in 10 seconds if I want to flirt with him or not

    Common sense and respect for all, is all these type of men are doing. I highly doubt they think women are soooooo weak, they cant open a door for themselves. For those men, I have a great deal of respect for. We need more people in the world like that and perhaps maybe there would be less bickering and arguing. Personally, I rather see the respect and smiles and thank you's over the ugliness of anger, hostility, and verbal slander.

    This really has nothing to do with baseball at all. In any shape or form.
    I think it's fine if a guy wants to open the door for a woman or a man or a child. To me, that's respect. What I have a problem with is when a guy refuses to let a woman open a door for him, even if he is a gentleman and isn't chauvinistic (In a way, it is being chauvinistic, even if he's not trying to be). It happens to me all the time.

    If a guy is a true gentleman, he will be a gentleman with everyone... like Digglahhh stated... not just with women.

  8. #28
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    Thumbs up Realistic....

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Jaw View Post
    That part of me will never change. I was raised a gentleman and will always be that. Over the years I've found that most women appreciate the respect.....the chivalry. Knightly virtues, honour and courtly love. That's the real me. And at 51 years of age, I can't really be expected to change my ways.
    Please don't! As an older female, sometimes with a cane, I expect from anyone capable the courtesy of an opened door. If I see an older person that needs help, or a parent looking a bit overwhelmed, I help. If I see a group walking four or five abreast on the side walk, I may just stop walking, may make a joke, make it clear in a nice way they need to be more considerate.

    If I'm bumped because someone is in a hurry, or I see a vunerable person not given enough space, I am not happy, let people know it.

    People with respect and courtesy should be treated the same way. If the guy with 50 packages tries, let him know politely, "I've got it."

    I may notice a gentleman that I think should have the door opened for him. But be careful. Your smile and thank you will mean a lot to him. If you insist on doing it yourself, feelings may be hurt.

    Baseball: If I'm lucky enough to be at a game, and some nitwit walks blocks my view of Ortiz at bat, I may not be a lady. I will watch my language, because there are children at ballgames. I know enough words to get my point across without being coarse.
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  9. #29
    NotAboutEgo Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousBoston View Post
    Please don't! As an older female, sometimes with a cane, I expect from anyone capable the courtesy of an opened door. If I see an older person that needs help, or a parent looking a bit overwhelmed, I help. If I see a group walking four or five abreast on the side walk, I may just stop walking, may make a joke, make it clear in a nice way they need to be more considerate.

    If I'm bumped because someone is in a hurry, or I see a vunerable person not given enough space, I am not happy, let people know it.

    People with respect and courtesy should be treated the same way. If the guy with 50 packages tries, let him know politely, "I've got it."

    I may notice a gentleman that I think should have the door opened for him. But be careful. Your smile and thank you will mean a lot to him. If you insist on doing it yourself, feelings may be hurt.

    Baseball: If I'm lucky enough to be at a game, and some nitwit walks blocks my view of Ortiz at bat, I may not be a lady. I will watch my language, because there are children at ballgames. I know enough words to get my point across without being coarse.
    Anyone who is in need of help should receive it. I agree with that. I would kindly help you or anyone else if you were in need of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousBoston View Post
    I may notice a gentleman that I think should have the door opened for him. But be careful. Your smile and thank you will mean a lot to him. If you insist on doing it yourself, feelings may be hurt.
    If I have read this correctly... if a guy's feelings are hurt when a woman chooses to open the door for herself, then he has emotions to deal with. I have no problem with a guy (or a woman) who's being courteous enough to open a door for someone. It's the instances where I or another woman get to the door first and hold it open for a guy who follows us, and he refuses to let us open the door for him, or if it's a case like my co-worker who can't ever accept a woman holding a door open for him, regardless of the reason behind it. There is an underlying reason for such a thing to happen, and in my opinion, it stems back to the times when women were told their place was in the home.

    A guy may think he's being respectful to women when he insists on holding the door open for them and never lets the woman open the door for him. I disagree. It's respectful when one holds the door open for everyone.

    I like your style, CuriousBoston.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotAboutEgo View Post
    I apologize for not making my point more clear. I wasn't calling you a chauvinist. Rather, I was making a comment that is related to what you said about treating everyone equally. I agree with you 100% on what you said. What I'm saying is, I hate it when guys think they need to hold the door open for a person or help them in some way, just because she's a woman, and he thinks it means she needs his help just because she's a woman.

    Again, I apologize for the misunderstanding.
    Oh, I didn't think you called me a chauvinist. We've had many exchanges on this forum, surely if you were going to call me a chauvinist, it would have happened already (and probably in no uncertain terms).

    I'm just saying that somebody holding a door open for you or not holding a door open for you can happen for a lot of reasons. "Small sample size" as they say in the Stats Forum.

    I think it is common courtesy to offer help to somebody who looks like they might want some. It is common courtesy for that person to politely refuse the help if they would rather not be helped. And it is common courtesy for the initial offerer to respect the other person's refusal.

    It is also common courtesy to not block the view of David Ortiz's at bat during a baseball game! However, it is also common courtesy to offer to block my view of first base if he makes a cameo on defense...
    Last edited by digglahhh; 04-03-2007 at 01:53 PM.
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  11. #31
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    Exclamation Hee Hee...

    Hey! Ortiz hasn't done too bad at first base. He made one play last year that was good, considering.

    Thank you. Please let all Yankee fans know you appreciate my style.

    When I referred to a guy that might have his feelings hurt, I was thinking of an older man, and not in the work enviroment. In the work enviroment it's tricky ; I might have a private talk with a peer in the same department, and insist he stop. With planning beforehand, talking to one of the other guys, asking a couple of other women, but they gotta be people who can keep their mouths shut. Plan it carefully. If I detected an inkling of "I'm stronger=better", I would have to have a talk.

    A peer from another department, maybe a "That's not necessary, but thank you." My boss, must have a private talk. Gotta keep at front of mind: unless you are positive, you gotta realize they were trained "right".

    If they have reps as backstabbers, egomanics, that's different, call 'em out. One guy from work wanted a date; the grapevine worked, we knew that admin were so many points, techs so many points, managers so many points. He showed up at work Monday with a broken arm. (I warned him twice; good metal door. Had someone waiting in the apartment, too.) I can't imagine why so many people were nervous....ACK! IT'S SNOWING!!!

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  12. #32
    Who in their right mind would wanna be an umpire..... Nah this is totally feasible. If someone wants to ump a game i really dont think gender is much of an issue.

  13. #33
    Of course.... baseball wouldnt sound as good with a female voice saying strike or ball or youre outa there.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigStellyPADRES4LIFE View Post
    Of course.... baseball wouldnt sound as good with a female voice saying strike or ball or youre outa there.
    I'm curious, have you ever been to a game that had a female umpire?

    To me, like a radio announcer, it all depends upon the voice. Perhaps people were raised to expect the male voice in certain situations, of which an ump or announcer (stadium, TV or radio) would be included. However, if the voice isn't very good, is too weak, then that person will have trouble capturing the fans regardless of his/her gender.

    I wouldn't automatically dismiss her outright, and unless she's behind home plate, I won't even hear what she says unless I'm at the stadium. behind 1B and she's the 1B ump.

    So long as she's decisive and fair to both sides, I wouldn't say it's the end of the world of baseball fan enjoyment of a game.
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  15. #35
    NotAboutEgo Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattingly View Post
    I'm curious, have you ever been to a game that had a female umpire?

    To me, like a radio announcer, it all depends upon the voice. Perhaps people were raised to expect the male voice in certain situations, of which an ump or announcer (stadium, TV or radio) would be included. However, if the voice isn't very good, is too weak, then that person will have trouble capturing the fans regardless of his/her gender.

    I wouldn't automatically dismiss her outright, and unless she's behind home plate, I won't even hear what she says unless I'm at the stadium. behind 1B and she's the 1B ump.

    So long as she's decisive and fair to both sides, I wouldn't say it's the end of the world of baseball fan enjoyment of a game.
    Yeah, I agree 100%. I could care less what gender an announcer is. What matters is how good of an announcer they are and how nice their voice is. For example, the Tigers stadium announcer is horrible. He has a very high voice and isn't good in my opinion, and he doesn't get the crowd going at all with his voice and mannerisms.

    On the other hand, the stadium announcer for the White Sox is great. He has a deep voice, and he has a lot of enthusiasm when he speaks and gets everyone going.

    There are plenty of women out there who have great announcing voices. People need to let their inhibitions about most traditions go and free their minds so they can experience and perceive life events free from the limits that they have placed upon themselves.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotAboutEgo View Post
    Yeah, I agree 100%. I could care less what gender an announcer is. What matters is how good of an announcer they are and how nice their voice is. For example, the Tigers stadium announcer is horrible. He has a very high voice and isn't good in my opinion, and he doesn't get the crowd going at all with his voice and mannerisms.

    On the other hand, the stadium announcer for the White Sox is great. He has a deep voice, and he has a lot of enthusiasm when he speaks and gets everyone going.

    There are plenty of women out there who have great announcing voices. People need to let their inhibitions about most traditions go and free their minds so they can experience and perceive life events free from the limits that they have placed upon themselves.
    We Yankee fans had a similar situation when YES started in 2002. Suzyn Waldman did play-by-play for the TV program. Unfortunately, people routinely couldn't stand her hi-pitched voice. In fact, the more respected women forumers I'd asked (on another board), they didn't like her voice either, so it wasn't just a guy thing reacting to her. However, we pretty much all loved her pre- and post-game interviews. She'd been reporting for the Yanks since the '80s, so she wasn't exactly a fly-by-nighter.

    She ended up going from being the "color person" (color man/woman?), and is now doing the radio job Michael Kay did in the past, along with John Sterling. She makes nice comments, her voice isn't so hi-pitched (perhaps she's toned down the "line SHAWT" thing a bit).

    For an ump in general, all I ask for is decisiveness, knowledge of the game, its rules, and being in the right position to make the call as to whether he was safe or out. Since she's done games at 1B and 3B (or was this 1B & 2B?), if the home plate ump isn't sure about a call with a righty batter, to make the call on that pitch not swung at.

    As to herself, all I ask is that she represent women properly and in a very nice way, so that she's seen moreso as a quality ump, and I feel there will likely be other women getting opportunities to be in a position to umpire. Not necessarily in MLB right away, but if seen a few times in AA & AAA, the MLB games won't be too far behind.
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  17. #37
    NotAboutEgo Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattingly View Post
    We Yankee fans had a similar situation when YES started in 2002. Suzyn Waldman did play-by-play for the TV program. Unfortunately, people routinely couldn't stand her hi-pitched voice. In fact, the more respected women forumers I'd asked (on another board), they didn't like her voice either, so it wasn't just a guy thing reacting to her. However, we pretty much all loved her pre- and post-game interviews. She'd been reporting for the Yanks since the '80s, so she wasn't exactly a fly-by-nighter.

    She ended up going from being the "color person" (color man/woman?), and is now doing the radio job Michael Kay did in the past, along with John Sterling. She makes nice comments, her voice isn't so hi-pitched (perhaps she's toned down the "line SHAWT" thing a bit).

    For an ump in general, all I ask for is decisiveness, knowledge of the game, its rules, and being in the right position to make the call as to whether he was safe or out. Since she's done games at 1B and 3B (or was this 1B & 2B?), if the home plate ump isn't sure about a call with a righty batter, to make the call on that pitch not swung at.

    As to herself, all I ask is that she represent women properly and in a very nice way, so that she's seen moreso as a quality ump, and I feel there will likely be other women getting opportunities to be in a position to umpire. Not necessarily in MLB right away, but if seen a few times in AA & AAA, the MLB games won't be too far behind.
    I agree. And once a woman or two make it in the minors and in MLB, when they're allowed to, then more women will be less intimidated to follow in their footsteps if they choose to umpire.

    It's like Captlid said in the other thread... a lot of females would love to continue playing baseball beyond little league and beyond 18 years old, but most don't want to be the only girl on the team, so they either stop playing or they go to fast pitch softball. A lot of people are intimidated in different ways when going outside of the norm to do something they enjoy and love. One way to give women the opportunities they should have is developing our own leagues from tee ball all the way up. Then, there's no reason to not have our own pro league. The same holds true for females who want to umpire.

  18. #38
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    I've been as critical of Stelly as anybody, but I think his comment here was just a pretty innocent joke.
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  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattingly View Post
    Are there any major pro sports in which men play that often have female refs, umps, etc?
    Sandra de Jenken was the chair umpire for this year's Australian Open (tennis) Mens Singles Final. Female chairs are quite prevalent in professional tennis.

  20. #40
    NotAboutEgo Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by TyrusRaymondCobb View Post
    Sandra de Jenken was the chair umpire for this year's Australian Open (tennis) Mens Singles Final. Female chairs are quite prevalent in professional tennis.
    Interesting. That's one sport out of how many?

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