Page 98 of 99 FirstFirst ... 488896979899 LastLast
Results 1,941 to 1,960 of 1970

Thread: NY METS Regular Season 2007 Thread

  1. #1941
    Quote Originally Posted by NYMets523 View Post

    ESPN will have to make a new "Who's Number 1? Biggest Chokes"
    Just about every team has to deal with shocking failures at one point or another. This one was really bad, but at least you know the Mets have the resources to make some changes.
    BOSTON RED SOX WORLD CHAMPIONS 1903 1912 1915 1916 1918 2004 2007

  2. #1942
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    5,539
    Quote Originally Posted by MudvilleMike View Post
    Just about every team has to deal with shocking failures at one point or another. This one was really bad, but at least you know the Mets have the resources to make some changes.
    They have the resources but I'm not sure how willing they will be to make them.
    "I'm happy for [Edwin Encarnacion] because this guy bleeds internally, big-time" -Dusty Baker

    "If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it on the scoreboard?" -Jeff Francoeur

    "At the end of the day, the sun comes up and I still have a job" -Joba Chamberlain

  3. #1943
    A lot of people will compare Glavine favorably to Smoltz when all they can remember is the 300+ wins. I just hope people remember today and think about how Glavine pitches in the really big games. His playoff record is 14-16. Totally respectable given the opposition, but hardly "the guy" you want to depend on.
    BOSTON RED SOX WORLD CHAMPIONS 1903 1912 1915 1916 1918 2004 2007

  4. #1944
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    5,539
    I'd like to meet those people who think Glavine is better than Smoltz and knock some sense into them.

    His playoff record might be skewed because I'm sure he's pitched games he deserved to win.

    I felt good with him going today. When he had 1-2 bad outings in a row, he always came back strong. Usually going 7 innings minimum and allowing no more than 2 runs.

    You don't have to tell me to remember his start today. Whenever I hear the name "Tom Glavine", the first thing I will think of is "September 30, 2007. 0.1 IP, 7 ER, 5 H, 2 BB, L". Then I'll think of the 300 wins, 2 CYAS, numerous ASG, all the stuff that got him in the HoF.
    "I'm happy for [Edwin Encarnacion] because this guy bleeds internally, big-time" -Dusty Baker

    "If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it on the scoreboard?" -Jeff Francoeur

    "At the end of the day, the sun comes up and I still have a job" -Joba Chamberlain

  5. #1945
    Hopefully management doesn't make some shortsighted moves in over reaction to this collapse. This year already happened, they don't need to make any desperate moves for the WS for next year to wipe this away.

    Man I sure remember the good ol' Steve Phillips days when they would sign every over the hill "proven" player they could get.

    The core of young players is here, just let them play.

  6. #1946
    Yeah, the biggest danger right now is overreacting.

  7. #1947
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    The Baseball Hall Of Fame
    Posts
    3,677
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by freshprince85 View Post
    12 hurs and 10 minutes to go.
    Tom Glavine vs Chris Carpenter, New York Mets @ St. Louis Cardinals

    LETS GO METS for great 2007 season
    Season seemed like a blur to me... Can hardly believe this was all the way back on 4-1-07..

    Well even though the season didnt go the way we all wanted, it was a pleasure to be posting here with all my fellow Met fans... Thanks for the ride and an interesting season
    "There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit.
    ~~Al Gallagher


    God Bless America!

    Click here to see my baseball tribute site!

    Click here to see the best pitcher NOT in the HOF!


  8. #1948
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    long island, ny
    Posts
    88
    there has been alot of talk about who influence who and what effect anyones influence had on the players,
    here's another name to throw in on the "influence pile" does anyone think that julio francos departure had anything to do with the way the players sort of looked like they were going through the motions for much of the season? i couldn't see why they ever had him on the team at all, but maybe he did have some effect for the better. just a thought.

  9. #1949
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    5,539
    I've heard Franco's influence was overrated and Willie wanted him gone because it was becoming obvious Franco wanted Willie's job.
    "I'm happy for [Edwin Encarnacion] because this guy bleeds internally, big-time" -Dusty Baker

    "If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it on the scoreboard?" -Jeff Francoeur

    "At the end of the day, the sun comes up and I still have a job" -Joba Chamberlain

  10. #1950
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    long island, ny
    Posts
    88
    Quote Originally Posted by NYMets523 View Post
    I've heard Franco's influence was overrated and Willie wanted him gone because it was becoming obvious Franco wanted Willie's job.
    your definition of apathy really gets to the point

  11. #1951
    Quote Originally Posted by [B
    Well, NOBODY liked Valentine on the club at that point. They all had one gripe or another with him. Franco was clubhouse poison at the time and probably worse than Valentine, but Leiter and Glavine both felt as starting pitchers that Valentine was throwing their arms out (Which he was...check out their Pitcher Abuse Points during the time Bobby V. was the manager...), which is why they jumped on Franco's band wagon.
    [/B]

    Valentine's last year as manager was 2002. Glavine signed for 2003 and played for Art Howe.
    Last edited by GIANT; 10-04-2007 at 04:48 PM.

  12. #1952
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    5,539
    2002 off-season.

    GIANT, since I can't PM you, I will post it here. You have pretty much said in every post that the Mets make too many "quick fixes" and don't utilize the draft. Would you consider trading a good amount of their top young talent for Johan Santana and locking him up for 5-7 years as a "quick fix"?
    "I'm happy for [Edwin Encarnacion] because this guy bleeds internally, big-time" -Dusty Baker

    "If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it on the scoreboard?" -Jeff Francoeur

    "At the end of the day, the sun comes up and I still have a job" -Joba Chamberlain

  13. #1953
    Quote Originally Posted by NYMets523 View Post
    2002 off-season.

    GIANT, since I can't PM you, I will post it here. You have pretty much said in every post that the Mets make too many "quick fixes" and don't utilize the draft. Would you consider trading a good amount of their top young talent for Johan Santana and locking him up for 5-7 years as a "quick fix"?

    First, Glavine did not play for Valentine. The poster indicated Valentine wore out Glavine's arm, which is factually incorrect.

    The talk about Santana being available is just that talk. If Minnesota decides to trade him, they would be far better off trading him to a team that will offer highly rated prospects and maybe major league talent. The Mets farm system presently is devoid of prospects with rare exception. Buster Olney addressed this issue on ESPN the other day. He indicated the Twins would want Reyes and three prospects from the Mets. The Mets can't afford to trade Reyes and they don't have the minor league talent required to complete the trade. Arizona, Colorado and Detroit they have bountiful minor league systems and might be able to offer highly rated prospects. If The Mets convince the Twins to take the garbage in their farm system, it would be the biggest heist since the brinks robbery.
    Last edited by GIANT; 10-04-2007 at 05:20 PM.

  14. #1954
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    5,539
    Quote Originally Posted by GIANT View Post
    The talk about Santana being available is just that talk. If Minnesota decides to trade him, they would be far better off trading him to a team that will offer highly rated prospects and maybe major league talent. The Mets farm system presently is devoid of prospects with rare exception. Buster Olney addressed this issue on ESPN the othe day. He indicated the Twins would want Reyes and three prospects from the Mets. The Mets can't afford to trade Reyes and they don't have the minor league talent required to complete the trade. Arizona, Colorado and Detroit they have bountiful minor league systems and might be able to offer highly rated prospects. If The Mets convince the Twins to take the garbage in their farm system, it would be the biggest heist since the brinks robbery.
    First off, Buster Olney is an absolute idiot. I could show to you a list of some things he's said. They are so dumb and baseless they would make you wonder how he got his job to begin with and how he's managed to keep it.

    Second, you didn't answer my question. Would the Mets trading their top young talent (regardless of what you think of them) for Johan Santana and locking him up to a long term deal be a "quick fix"? You seem to value prospects so highly (like too many people) and condemn any type of move where an older player is acquired.
    Last edited by NYMets523; 10-04-2007 at 05:32 PM.
    "I'm happy for [Edwin Encarnacion] because this guy bleeds internally, big-time" -Dusty Baker

    "If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it on the scoreboard?" -Jeff Francoeur

    "At the end of the day, the sun comes up and I still have a job" -Joba Chamberlain

  15. #1955
    Quote Originally Posted by NYMets523 View Post
    First off, Buster Olney is an absolute idiot. I could show to you a list of some things he's said. They are so dumb and baseless they would make you wonder how he got his job to begin with and how he's managed to keep it.

    Second, you didn't answer my question. Would the Mets trading their top young talent (regardless of what you think of them) for Johan Santana and locking him up to a long term deal be a "quick fix"? You seem to value prospects so highly (like too many people) and condemn any type of move where an older player is acquired.
    I disagree Buster Olney is an idiot. Please identify the top talent the Mets could offer for Santana?

    I reiterate the Mets do not have the prospects to offer Minnesota for Sanatana. The older players acquired by the Mets for draft choices Glavine (you despise him), Martinez hurt his arm, Alou he was injured for better than half the season. They cost the Mets draft choices. Yet, you continue to believe by following the same pattern the Mets will be instant contenders. It doesn't work that way. The Angels when they were owned by Gene Autry spent lavishly on free agents Joe Rudi, Bobby Grich and Reggie Jackson etc. and they won nothing. Colorado spent big money on Mike Hampton (another Met failure) and Denny Naegle. They won nothing. Colorado realized the error of their ways and addressed their farm system. They are currently in the playoffs with Franklin Morales, Manny Corpas, Garrett Adkins, Brad Hawpe and Brad Holliday. They will be contenders for more than this year. Older players are fine provided you have the foundation in place with young talent. Older players should supplement rather than be the foundation for a contender. If you recall the 86 Mets they had Dystra, Backman, Strawberry, Gooden, McDowell etc. all products of their farm system. Frank Cashen than traded young players for Gary Carter, Keith Hernandez and Danny Heep and the Mets made it to the World Series and won it. The Mets need to follow Cashen's blue print it was the same one used by Johnny Murphy in 1969 the other year the Mets won a championship.

  16. #1956
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    5,539
    Quote Originally Posted by GIANT View Post
    I disagree Buster Olney is an idiot.
    He said the Indians would trade C.C. Sabathia if they weren't in contention this year.
    He said Eric Gagne would veto a trade to the Mets since he would not be able to close (The Mets were not one of the teams Gagne could block).
    He wrote an article that made it sound that Mark Buehrle was halfway to Shea Stadium. Here's what he wrote in his article: “There is an absolute, natural framework in place for a deal with the Mets: Buehrle for Lastings Milledge, with the White Sox perhaps sending some other piece along, because Buehrle is only a few months from free agency.”
    He said Mets would go after Carlos Zambrano during the season.
    He said The Mets would trade for Alex Rios (because it "made sense").
    He said the Mets would trade for Manny Ramirez for years.
    He said the Mets had traded for Barry Zito every trading deadline for the past few years.
    Thought the Red Sox would trade Matsuzaka after singing him.

    I reiterate the Mets do not have the prospects to offer Minnesota for Sanatana. The older players acquired by the Mets for draft choices Glavine (you despise him), Martinez hurt his arm, Alou he was injured for better than half the season. They cost the Mets draft choices. Yet, you continue to believe by following the same pattern the Mets will be instant contenders.
    They needed to sign Pedro to show the team was working towards winning. They needed Glavine because the rotation would have been worse without him. I don't like him but I rather see him in the rotation than the Mets put a bum in there simply to get the draft pick. I think you are vastly overrating the draft. Just because you draft someone doesn't mean they will be a significant contributor.

    Colorado spent big money on Mike Hampton (another Met failure) and Denny Naegle. They won nothing. Colorado realized the error of their ways and addressed their farm system. They are currently in the playoffs with Franklin Morales, Manny Corpas, Garrett Adkins, Brad Hawpe and Brad Holliday. They will be contenders for more than this year. Older players are fine provided you have the foundation in place with young talent. Older players should supplement rather than be the foundation for a contender.
    Hampton wasn't a Met failure. They actually drafted David Wright with a compensation pick for letting Hampton go. They got Heilman with the other draft pick.

    If you recall the 86 Mets they had Dystra, Backman, Strawberry, Gooden, McDowell etc. all products of their farm system. Frank Cashen than traded young players for Gary Carter, Keith Hernandez and Danny Heep and the Mets made it to the World Series and won it. The Mets need to follow Cashen's blue print it was the same one used by Johnny Murphy in 1969 the other year the Mets won a championship.
    I also recall that it took Cashen about 5 years to produce that team. You're not going to get a great farm system in 2 years. It's been getting filled since Minaya came here.
    Last edited by NYMets523; 10-04-2007 at 06:22 PM.
    "I'm happy for [Edwin Encarnacion] because this guy bleeds internally, big-time" -Dusty Baker

    "If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it on the scoreboard?" -Jeff Francoeur

    "At the end of the day, the sun comes up and I still have a job" -Joba Chamberlain

  17. #1957
    Quote Originally Posted by NYMets523 View Post
    He said the Indians would trade C.C. Sabathia if they weren't in contention this year.
    He said Eric Gagne would veto a trade to the Mets since he would not be able to close (The Mets were not one of the teams Gagne could block).
    He wrote an article that made it sound that Mark Buehrle was halfway to Shea Stadium. Here's what he wrote in his article: “There is an absolute, natural framework in place for a deal with the Mets: Buehrle for Lastings Milledge, with the White Sox perhaps sending some other piece along, because Buehrle is only a few months from free agency.”
    He said Mets would go after Carlos Zambrano during the season.
    He said The Mets would trade for Alex Rios (because it "made sense").
    He said the Mets would trade for Manny Ramirez for years.
    He said the Mets had traded for Barry Zito every trading deadline for the past few years.
    Thought the Red Sox would trade Matsuzaka after singing him.


    Please provide the support for your allegations against Olney i.e. provide the publications where he wrote these things.


    They needed to sign Pedro to show the team was working towards winning. They needed Glavine because the rotation would have been worse without him. I don't like him but I rather see him in the rotation than the Mets put a bum in there simply to get the draft pick. I think you are vastly overrating the draft. Just because you draft someone doesn't mean they will be a significant contributor.

    Balderdash! You don't understand the draft. I have cited numerous teams that have used the draft to their advantage. The Mets do not fall into that category.


    Hampton wasn't a Met failure. They actually drafted David Wright with a compensation pick for letting Hampton go. They got Heilman with the other draft pick.

    You proved my point. The draft does work provided you exhibit patience.


    I also recall that it took Cashen about 5 years to produce that team. You're not going to get a great farm system in 2 years. It's been getting filled since Minaya came here.


    It took Cashen time because the Mets farm system was a disaster. Previous ownership under Lorinda DeRoulet didn't spend any money on player development. Please provide the names of all the prospects Minaya has signed other than from the Dominican Republic from the June draft whom you believe are prospective major leaguers? Please provide the names of players you believe the Twins would accept for Santana?

    I totally disagree with you on the Mets using the draft to their advantage. I respect your right to disgree.
    Last edited by GIANT; 10-04-2007 at 07:10 PM.

  18. #1958
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    5,539
    Quote Originally Posted by GIANT View Post
    Please provide the support for your allegations against Olney i.e. provide the publications where he wrote these things.
    I'll look tomorrow. I know he said the thing about Sabathia on the radio. I can dig through ESPN and some other sites to find the links.

    Balderdash! You don't understand the draft. I have cited numerous teams that have used the draft to their advantage. The Mets do not fall into that category.
    What I understand about the draft is that the players you draft are no guarantee to succeed and if they do, won't for some years. They needed Glavine and Alou because they were in a position to win this year and whoever they drafted wasn't going to contribute this year.

    You proved my point. The draft does work provided you exhibit patience.
    It works but it is no guarantee. The Mets and many other teams have acquired players from their camps in Latin America. The baseball draft isn't like football or basketball where you have a very good idea of how a player will turn out.

    Please provide the names of players you believe the Twins would accept for Santana
    Do you mean players the Mets would be willing to trade and/or the Twins would accept?

    Also take into account a few things:
    A) Johan has a full no-trade clause. He's said he'd waive it (for compensation). It's more where he wants to go than where the Twins can get the best offer.
    B) The Twins will only get the prospects they deserve if the team getting Santana will sign a long-term deal. Arizona and Colorado don't have those resources. He'd cost too many prospects to be a rental which means the Twins wouldn't get as much as they could without a window to make a new deal.

    I totally disagree with you on the Mets using the draft to their advantage. I respect your right to disgree.
    I agree they should be using the draft. However, the draft is not the only way to succeed.
    Last edited by NYMets523; 10-04-2007 at 08:54 PM.
    "I'm happy for [Edwin Encarnacion] because this guy bleeds internally, big-time" -Dusty Baker

    "If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it on the scoreboard?" -Jeff Francoeur

    "At the end of the day, the sun comes up and I still have a job" -Joba Chamberlain

  19. #1959
    [QUOTE=NYMets523;1019567]I'll look tomorrow. I know he said the thing about Sabathia on the radio. I can dig through ESPN and some other sites to find the links.

    Great.

    What I understand about the draft is that the players you draft are no guarantee to succeed and if they do, won't for some years. They needed Glavine and Alou because they were in a position to win this year and whoever they drafted wasn't going to contribute this year.

    This is contrary to your position. You claim the Mets are not using the "quick fix" approach yet you now admit (which proves my point) they wanted to win this year. Justin Upton of Arizona drated last year is in the major leagues this year. Joba Chamberlain and Ian Kennedy of the Yankees were drafted last year and are in the big leagues.

    It works but it is no guarantee. The Mets and many other teams have acquired players from their camps in Latin America. The baseball draft isn't like football or basketball where you have a very good idea of how a player will turn out.

    There are no guarantees in life except death and taxes.

    Do you mean players the Mets would be willing to trade and/or the Twins would accept?

    Also take into account a few things:
    A) Johan has a full no-trade clause. He's said he'd waive it (for compensation). It's more where he wants to go than where the Twins can get the best offer.
    B) The Twins will only get the prospects they deserve if the team getting Santana will sign a long-term deal. Arizona and Colorado don't have those resources. He'd cost too many prospects to be a rental which means the Twins wouldn't get as much as they could without a window to make a new deal.


    [B]Provide me with a list of players you would accept if you were the G. M. of the Twins from the Mets.

    I never said Colorado and Arizona were interested in Santana. Provide me with a list of prospects you would accept from the Mets for Santana?

    I agree they should be using the draft. However, the draft is not the only way to succeed.[/QUOTE]

    The draft is not the only way to succeed but you won't succeed without it.
    Last edited by GIANT; 10-04-2007 at 09:21 PM.

  20. #1960
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,629
    Blog Entries
    8
    "First, Glavine did not play for Valentine. The poster indicated Valentine wore out Glavine's arm, which is factually incorrect."

    Sorry. Got caught up in that one. He was abusing Leiter, though, and Leiter quickly clamped on to Glavine.

    "Please provide the support for your allegations against Olney i.e. provide the publications where he wrote these things."

    You can spend a good half a day on ESPN.com, find that, and even more. Or just search this forum (Baseball-Fever.com in general) for specific posts, since many have accompanying links. Olney is a moron; easily the worst analyst they've employed long-term outside of Steve Phillips. In late 2005 (I think), someone posted Olney's trade rumor record on mlbtraderumors.com. He'd actually been wrong more times than he was right. Now, sure, most rumor mongers are. But by roughly 85% of the rumors he reported???

    "It took Cashen time because the Mets farm system was a disaster."

    You could easily replace "Cashen" with "Minaya" here and get the same results. Our two best prospects obtained via the draft under Phillips were David Wright and Aaron Heilman. Oh, and Scott Kazmir. Plus one international free agent star signed in Jose Reyes. Outside of that, we had virtually nothing. To his credit, Jim Duquette got Philip Humber and Mike Carp. And basically no one else.

    "Please provide the names of all the prospects Minaya has signed other than from the Dominican Republic from the June draft whom you believe are prospective major leaguers."

    They may not come up in their current roles and it will obviously take some time, but...

    -Mike Pelfrey
    -Joe Smith
    -Jon Niese
    -Kevin Mulvey
    -Dan Murphy
    -Tobi Stoner
    -Phillips Orta
    -Eddie Kunz
    -Stephen Clyne
    -Brant Rustich

    That's 10 in 3 years who I believe will at least see Major League playing time. Hector Pellot flopped and I think Bobby Parnell hit his ceiling. Yes, I know 9 of 10 are pitchers, but isn't that our biggest problem right now?
    Last edited by Dalkowski110; 10-05-2007 at 12:31 PM.
    "They put me in the Hall of Fame? They must really be scraping the bottom of the barrel!"
    -Eppa Rixey, upon learning of his induction to the Baseball Hall of Fame.

    Motafy (MO-ta-fy) vt. -fied, -fying 1. For a pitcher to melt down in a big game situation; to become like Guillermo Mota. 2. The transformation of a good pitcher into one of Guillermo Mota's caliber.

Page 98 of 99 FirstFirst ... 488896979899 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •