Top 100 players #67-70

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

Hello again. Here are the results:
1) Ruth
2) Mays/Cobb
4) Wagner
5) Bonds
6) Williams
7) Aaron
8) Mantle
9) Gehrig
10) Musial/Speaker
12) Hornsby
13) Charleston
14) Collins
15) Schmidt
16) DiMaggio
17) Morgan
18) F. Robinson
19) Gibson
20) Henderson
21) Lajoie
22) Bench
23) A-Rod
24) Foxx
25) Lloyd
26) Berra
27) Brett
28) Mathews
29) Ott
30) J. Jackson
31) Yastrzemski
32) A. Vaughn
33) Ripken Jr.
34) Clemente/Sisler
36) Anson
37) Stearnes
38) R. Jackson
39) Thomas/Delahanty
41) Bagwell
42) Cochrane
43) Ewing
44) Griffey Jr.
45) Rose
46) Greenburg
47) Robinson/Brouthers
49) Gehringer
50) Piazza
51) Sam Crawford- 39 points
52) Robin Yount- 28 points
53) Wade Boggs- 27 points
54) Tony Gwynn- 25 points
55) Willie McCovey- 23 points
56) Ernie Banks and Al Simmons- 17 points each
58) Billy Hamilton and Duke Snider- 15 points each
60) Al Kaline and Tim Raines- 14 points each
62) Eddie Murray, Craig Biggio, and Gary Carter- all 18 points
65) Johnny Mize- 17 points
66) Buck Leonard- 16 points

After altering my lists, here's mine:
67) Ernie Banks
68) Harry Heilman
69) Rod Carew
70) Bill Dickey

[Dogdaze]

67. Jud “Boojum” Wilson

68. George "Mule" Suttles

69. Rod Carew

70. Roger Connor


Next up Sadaharu Oh

[brett]

Guys, my perception is that catchers and middle infielders are slipping down the rungs because they get harder to place. There are probably 7 more catchers who should get into the top 100.

[brett]

EDIT OF THE POST BELOW
First off, I didn't notice that Alomar was still up. Second that we should only be chosing our top 4 at this time.
67) Fisk
68) Alomar
69) I-Rod
70) Hartnett
-----------------------end edit--------------------------------------

Fisk
I-Rod
Hartnett
Sandberg
Dahlen

Next up (VERY MUCH IN FLUX AT THIS POINT-suggestions welcome: Santo, Allen, Dickey, Campanella, Larkin, and possibly Ozzie Smith. His baserunning and fielding and position put him at equivalent to about a 130 OPS+ guy in a neutral defensive spot.


And guys, where does Frank Baker fit in? Does he hit the top 100?

[Lin_Kuei_Fighter]

Gabby Hartnett- Is a top 35 player IMO
Rod Carew- Very good second baseman. Underrated. Similar to Morgan in some ways
Billy Williams- Great hitter, bad defense
Ron Santo- HOF type player

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

Gabby Hartnett- Is a top 35 player IMO
Rod Carew- Very good second baseman. Underrated.
George Sisler- Nice Peak, even for a first baseman.
Billy Williams- Great hitter, bad defense
Ron Santo- HOF type player

Sisler is already in.

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

Fisk
I-Rod
Hartnett
Sandberg
Dahlen

Next up (VERY MUCH IN FLUX AT THIS POINT-suggestions welcome: Santo, Allen, Dickey, Campanella, Larkin, and possibly Ozzie Smith. His baserunning and fielding and position put him at equivalent to about a 130 OPS+ guy in a neutral defensive spot.


And guys, where does Frank Baker fit in? Does he hit the top 100?

I think Baker deserves top 100.

[AstrosFan]

Fisk
I-Rod
Hartnett
Sandberg
Dahlen

Next up (VERY MUCH IN FLUX AT THIS POINT-suggestions welcome: Santo, Allen, Dickey, Campanella, Larkin, and possibly Ozzie Smith. His baserunning and fielding and position put him at equivalent to about a 130 OPS+ guy in a neutral defensive spot.


And guys, where does Frank Baker fit in? Does he hit the top 100?

I can't imagine why Alomar wouldn't rank somewhere in there.

[leecemark]

67) Harmon Killebrew (very similar to McCovey - except he could play 3B!)
68) Mule Suttles (Greenberg of the Negro leagues)
69) Rod Carew (arguably greatest BA man ever, very good baserunner)
70) Carlton Fisk (career, if not peak, ranks amoung best catchers)

Best of the rest
C: Campanella, Hartnett
1B: Sadaharu Oh
2B: Sandberg, Frisch, Alomar
3B: Baker, Santo, Jud Wilson, Shigeo Nagashima
SS: Willie Wells, Appling, Cronin
LF: Stargell?
CF: Christobal Torriente
RF: Waner

[cbenson5]

67. Roger Connor
68. Carlton Fisk
69. Bill Dahlen
70. Roberto Alomar

This is getting quite difficult now. I am very much interested in any disagreements anyone has with my list, and I am open to revisions.

Charles

[538280]

67. Dick Allen
68. Roger Connor
69. Roberto Alomar
70, Carlton Fisk

Next 10 up are Barry Larkin, Dave Winfield, Wade Boggs, Gary Sheffield, Rod Carew, Bobby Grich, Harmon Killebrew, Willie Stargell, Billy Hamilton, and Bill Dahlen

[538280]

Fisk
I-Rod
Hartnett
Sandberg
Dahlen

Next up (VERY MUCH IN FLUX AT THIS POINT-suggestions welcome: Santo, Allen, Dickey, Campanella, Larkin, and possibly Ozzie Smith. His baserunning and fielding and position put him at equivalent to about a 130 OPS+ guy in a neutral defensive spot.


And guys, where does Frank Baker fit in? Does he hit the top 100?

I think Baker might fit in pretty soon, but I think among 3B he's clearly behind Santo. Santo was probably just as good at his peak, but a little more consistent in keeping up a high level in a longer career. He also has an LQ edge. He might make my next 10 soon though.

I would ask about Roger Connor. Connor to me doesn't seem that much different than Bagwell. He wasn't quite the hitter Bagwell was with LQ, but he was an ever better fielder (stats would suggest he's an A 1Bman while Bagwell is more like a B), and at a time when 1B defense was more important. He's not much worse than Brouthers either considering the significant fielding edge he has on him, and he's not THAT much of a worse hitter than Brouthers really and has a longer career. I think he should at least be with your quene. Same with Alomar which AF asked about.

[538280]

This is getting quite difficult now. I am very much interested in any disagreements anyone has with my list, and I am open to revisions.

I don't really see what makes Harry Heilmann in there instead of Killebrew or Stargell who both have definite LQ edges and longer careers and, in the case of Killebrew, more defensive value because he did play a lot of 3B at at least a level that they could put him there. Harry Heilmann was supposed to be a horrible fielder and baserunner. Winfield too wasn't that much worse than him as a hitter considering LQ and career length and was a significantly better fielder and baserunner.

[brett]

Same with Alomar which AF asked about.

I thought Alomar just went in the last round or 2.

[538280]

I thought Alomar just went in the last round or 2.

He's not listed in the list above.

[brett]

He's not listed in the list above.

I'll amend my original list to put Alomar just behind Fisk. Also, it looks like Connor has a good case. He probably was more valuable than Hamilton given that Hamilton's steals were largely neutralized by his high scoring environment.

I would probably put Connor a little under Allen.

[brett]

He's not listed in the list above.

Where do you think Campanella fits in? He had some great peak years and from what I've seen was suprisingly good on defense, but fewer than 6000 plate appearances.

[AstrosFan]

Don't ask me to defend these; I'm just guessing.

67. Alomar
68. Allen
69. Fisk
70. Suttles

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

67. Dick Allen
68. Roger Connor
69. Roberto Alomar
70, Carlton Fisk

Next 10 up are Barry Larkin, Dave Winfield, Wade Boggs, Gary Sheffield, Rod Carew, Bobby Grich, Harmon Killebrew, Willie Stargell, Billy Hamilton, and Bill Dahlen

If the next 10 are in order, may I ask why Larkin is ahead of everyone?

[baseballPAP]

Sadaharu Oh
Carlton Fisk
Roy Campanella(don't forget a few years as a NeL all-star before the Dodgers)
Roger Connor

in the wings-Turkey Stearnes, Rod Carew, Chipper Jones, Harmon Killebrew, Manny Ramirez and Gary Sheffield.

Another Japanese player is fast approaching as well, Shigeo Nagashima. I don't understand the lack of support for a league that has been around for 70 years, with a very organized structure, while a league that lasted 30 years with almost no structure at all gets a ton of support. The Negro Leagues have a lot of over-sensationalized stories that make the players seem better than they were. The Japanese League has actual statistics....

Obviously the best NLers could have been among the best in MLB. But, why is it that no one thinks the same about the Nippon Leaguers?

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

Sadaharu Oh
Carlton Fisk
Roy Campanella(don't forget a few years as a NeL all-star before the Dodgers)
Roger Connor

in the wings-Turkey Stearnes, Rod Carew, Chipper Jones, Harmon Killebrew, Manny Ramirez and Gary Sheffield.

Another Japanese player is fast approaching as well, Shigeo Nagashima. I don't understand the lack of support for a league that has been around for 70 years, with a very organized structure, while a league that lasted 30 years with almost no structure at all gets a ton of support. The Negro Leagues have a lot of over-sensationalized stories that make the players seem better than they were. The Japanese League has actual statistics....

Obviously the best NLers could have been among the best in MLB. But, why is it that no one thinks the same about the Nippon Leaguers?

Don't vote for Stearnes next round. he has already been elected.

[AstrosFan]

Hey Tyrus, I think you need to change your signature. We've passed 56-60. Not a big deal, but it might make for better advertising if it were accurate.

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

Hey Tyrus, I think you need to change your signature. We've passed 56-60. Not a big deal, but it might make for better advertising if it were accurate.

Whoops! Thanks.

[cbenson5]

I don't really see what makes Harry Heilmann in there instead of Killebrew or Stargell who both have definite LQ edges and longer careers and, in the case of Killebrew, more defensive value because he did play a lot of 3B at at least a level that they could put him there. Harry Heilmann was supposed to be a horrible fielder and baserunner. Winfield too wasn't that much worse than him as a hitter considering LQ and career length and was a significantly better fielder and baserunner.

Hey Chris,

Thank You for the suggestions. I have decided that I am going to place Mr. Alomar in the 70 spot. For some reason, he did not come to mind when I was making my list. I will consider the gentlemen that you mentioned in the next round.

Charles

[sgrosm2]

67. Rod Carew
68. Dave Winfield
69. Gary Sheffield
70. Barry Larkin