Bob Caruthers
[NOTE: Originally posted on November 19, 2006. Caruthers was elected to the BBFHOF on November 30, 2007.]
I finally have the Keltner List for Bob Caruthers.
Based on these summaries, I would rank the four pitchers I did lists for as:
1) Caruthers
2) Mullane
3) McCormick
4) Welch
with Caruthers worthy of the BBFHOF, McCormick and Welch outside the hall, and Mullane being somewhere around the cutoff line.
So just why is Welch receiving so much support? Why are there so many who rank him ahead of the other three pitchers? I'd like to see what the argument for rating Welch on top of the list is.
Anyway, here's the list.
Case to Consider: CARUTHERS, Bob
1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball? Did anybody, while he was active, ever suggest that he was the best player in baseball?
I don’t know.
2. Was he the best player on his team?
This question isn’t generally applicable to pitchers in the 1880s; one pitcher would generally be the standout, and, due to the large number of innings pitched, would also lead the team in win shares.
3. Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?
He led all major leaguers in win shares in 1887, and led the AA in 1889. He was second in win shares among major leaguers in 1886 and 1888, and was second in the AA in 1885. That makes a four-year span in which Caruthers was among the top two in MLB in win shares each year, and a five-year span in the AA.
4. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?
He pitched for five pennant winners: St. Louis (1885-87) and Brooklyn (1889-90).
5. Was he good enough that he could play regularly after passing his prime?
No. He played his last season at the age of 28.
6. Is he the very best baseball player in history who is not in the Hall of Fame?
Not in my opinion.
7. Are most players who have comparable statistics in the Hall of Fame?
By similarity scores: Sam Leever, Jesse Tannehill, Carl Mays, Deacon Phillippe, Stan Coveleski, Jack Chesbro, Urban Shocker, Larry Corcoran, Chief Bender, and Lon Warneke. Three are in Cooperstown, but only one in the BBFHOF. However, of the ten pitchers on the list, only Coveleski’s ERA+ of 126 beats Caruther’s ERA+ of 123 – and Caruthers beats Coveleski on OPS+, 135 to 9.
Career win shares, contemporary P: Hoss Radbourn 391, Mickey Welch 354, CARUTHERS 337, Jim McCormick 334, Dave Foutz 292. Caruthers is in the second tier of 1880s pitchers here.
Top three seasons: John Clarkson 173, Pud Galvin 165, CARUTHERS 162, Tim Keefe 159, Tony Mullane 159, Silver King 159, Bill Hutchison 158, Tommy Bond 157, Guy Hecker 155. Caruthers is the best of his contemporaries outside the BBFHOF.
Top five consecutive seasons: Hoss Radbourne 270, CARUTHERS 254, John Clarkson 247, Tim Keefe 236, Tommy Bond 225. Caruthers is second all-time in this category.
8. Do the player's numbers meet Hall of Fame standards?
Caruthers has a pitching black ink mark of 27 (59th all-time) and a hitting black ink mark of 3. He is 127th in pitching gray ink, at 130, but also has 29 points of hitting gray ink. He is at number 40 in the pitching HOF Standards score, at 48.0; his batting HOF Standards score, however, is 17.0.
Caruthers’ 1880s gray ink total is 96 – it counts only top six finishes, and omits saves.
Caruthers is not in Cooperstown. However, he is a member of the Hall of Merit at baseballthinkfactory.
9. Is there any evidence to suggest that the player was significantly better or worse than is suggested by his statistics?
The AA was considered to be a weaker league than the NL. However, Caruther’s Brooklyn team won the AA pennant in 1889, and then captured the NL pennant in 1890.
10. Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the Hall of Fame?
Not in my opinion; his career was too short.
11. How many MVP-type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, how many times was he close?
There was no MVP award in Caruthers’ day. However, he finished among the top two pitchers/players in his league in win shares five times.
12. How many All-Star-type seasons did he have? How many All-Star games did he play in? Did most of the players who played in this many All-Star games go into the Hall of Fame?
He was among the top three pitchers in his league five times. Five All-Star-type seasons is good, but not great, for a pitcher.
13. If this man were the best player on his team, would it be likely that the team could win the pennant?
At his peak, certainly.
14. What impact did the player have on baseball history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce any new equipment? Did he change the game in any way?
Caruthers had the lowest ERA of anyone with 2000 IP in the American Association.
15. Did the player uphold the standards of sportsmanship and character that the Hall of Fame, in its written guidelines, instructs us to consider?
As far as I know.
CONCLUSION: Caruthers had a short career, but it isn’t that short in the context of pre-1893 pitchers. But he had a great peak, and what a peak it was. In both 1886 and 1887, he finished in the top three in the AA in both ERA+ and OPS+. Caruthers deserves to go into the BBFHOF.
[NOTE: Originally posted on November 19, 2006. Caruthers was elected to the BBFHOF on November 30, 2007.]
I finally have the Keltner List for Bob Caruthers.
Based on these summaries, I would rank the four pitchers I did lists for as:
1) Caruthers
2) Mullane
3) McCormick
4) Welch
with Caruthers worthy of the BBFHOF, McCormick and Welch outside the hall, and Mullane being somewhere around the cutoff line.
So just why is Welch receiving so much support? Why are there so many who rank him ahead of the other three pitchers? I'd like to see what the argument for rating Welch on top of the list is.
Anyway, here's the list.
Case to Consider: CARUTHERS, Bob
1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball? Did anybody, while he was active, ever suggest that he was the best player in baseball?
I don’t know.
2. Was he the best player on his team?
This question isn’t generally applicable to pitchers in the 1880s; one pitcher would generally be the standout, and, due to the large number of innings pitched, would also lead the team in win shares.
3. Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?
He led all major leaguers in win shares in 1887, and led the AA in 1889. He was second in win shares among major leaguers in 1886 and 1888, and was second in the AA in 1885. That makes a four-year span in which Caruthers was among the top two in MLB in win shares each year, and a five-year span in the AA.
4. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?
He pitched for five pennant winners: St. Louis (1885-87) and Brooklyn (1889-90).
5. Was he good enough that he could play regularly after passing his prime?
No. He played his last season at the age of 28.
6. Is he the very best baseball player in history who is not in the Hall of Fame?
Not in my opinion.
7. Are most players who have comparable statistics in the Hall of Fame?
By similarity scores: Sam Leever, Jesse Tannehill, Carl Mays, Deacon Phillippe, Stan Coveleski, Jack Chesbro, Urban Shocker, Larry Corcoran, Chief Bender, and Lon Warneke. Three are in Cooperstown, but only one in the BBFHOF. However, of the ten pitchers on the list, only Coveleski’s ERA+ of 126 beats Caruther’s ERA+ of 123 – and Caruthers beats Coveleski on OPS+, 135 to 9.
Career win shares, contemporary P: Hoss Radbourn 391, Mickey Welch 354, CARUTHERS 337, Jim McCormick 334, Dave Foutz 292. Caruthers is in the second tier of 1880s pitchers here.
Top three seasons: John Clarkson 173, Pud Galvin 165, CARUTHERS 162, Tim Keefe 159, Tony Mullane 159, Silver King 159, Bill Hutchison 158, Tommy Bond 157, Guy Hecker 155. Caruthers is the best of his contemporaries outside the BBFHOF.
Top five consecutive seasons: Hoss Radbourne 270, CARUTHERS 254, John Clarkson 247, Tim Keefe 236, Tommy Bond 225. Caruthers is second all-time in this category.
8. Do the player's numbers meet Hall of Fame standards?
Caruthers has a pitching black ink mark of 27 (59th all-time) and a hitting black ink mark of 3. He is 127th in pitching gray ink, at 130, but also has 29 points of hitting gray ink. He is at number 40 in the pitching HOF Standards score, at 48.0; his batting HOF Standards score, however, is 17.0.
Caruthers’ 1880s gray ink total is 96 – it counts only top six finishes, and omits saves.
Caruthers is not in Cooperstown. However, he is a member of the Hall of Merit at baseballthinkfactory.
9. Is there any evidence to suggest that the player was significantly better or worse than is suggested by his statistics?
The AA was considered to be a weaker league than the NL. However, Caruther’s Brooklyn team won the AA pennant in 1889, and then captured the NL pennant in 1890.
10. Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the Hall of Fame?
Not in my opinion; his career was too short.
11. How many MVP-type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, how many times was he close?
There was no MVP award in Caruthers’ day. However, he finished among the top two pitchers/players in his league in win shares five times.
12. How many All-Star-type seasons did he have? How many All-Star games did he play in? Did most of the players who played in this many All-Star games go into the Hall of Fame?
He was among the top three pitchers in his league five times. Five All-Star-type seasons is good, but not great, for a pitcher.
13. If this man were the best player on his team, would it be likely that the team could win the pennant?
At his peak, certainly.
14. What impact did the player have on baseball history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce any new equipment? Did he change the game in any way?
Caruthers had the lowest ERA of anyone with 2000 IP in the American Association.
15. Did the player uphold the standards of sportsmanship and character that the Hall of Fame, in its written guidelines, instructs us to consider?
As far as I know.
CONCLUSION: Caruthers had a short career, but it isn’t that short in the context of pre-1893 pitchers. But he had a great peak, and what a peak it was. In both 1886 and 1887, he finished in the top three in the AA in both ERA+ and OPS+. Caruthers deserves to go into the BBFHOF.
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