View Poll Results: How We Rank Stan Musial

Voters
56. You may not vote on this poll
  • I rank Stan in my Top 10 Players.

    28 50.00%
  • I rank Stan in my Top 15 Players.

    15 26.79%
  • I rank Stan in my Top 20 Players.

    8 14.29%
  • I rank Stan Musial over Joe DiMaggio.

    21 37.50%
  • I rank Stan Musial over Ted Williams.

    3 5.36%
  • I rank Stan in my Top 10 Hitters.

    23 41.07%
  • I do not rank Stan in my Top 10 Hitters.

    6 10.71%
  • Stan was a greater player than Hank Aaron.

    6 10.71%
  • Hank Aaron was a greater player than Stan Musia.

    14 25.00%
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Thread: Stan Musial Thread

  1. #1

    Stan Musial Thread

    Assuming we don't have one of these. Share your stories about Stan Musial.


    Here are some of mine.

    Musial as a person: It's hard to say, he seems like a nice man. I met him in March of 06 when he signed a Rawlings Official Major League Baseball, but no pictures, inscriptions OR handshakes. I like to shake peoples hands. Anyway, a mediocre guy. If you ask me, he may just be the greatest hitter in NL history. Look at his slugging numbers. I also rank Musial the 9th greatest player ever, and the greatest LF ever. Sorry Barry, but steroids will always get you in my book. Musial lasted over such a long period of time while doing this too. His 1948 season may also be the best by a left fielder ever also. He was insane that year. Stan Musial was, and is still an icon all around baseball, and truly was "The Man."



    http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/ho...usial_Stan.jpg

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Lin_Kuei_Fighter View Post
    Assuming we don't have one of these. Share your stories about Stan Musial.


    Here are some of mine.

    Musial as a person: It's hard to say, he seems like a nice man. I met him in March of 06 when he signed a Rawlings Official Major League Baseball, but no pictures, inscriptions OR handshakes. I like to shake peoples hands. Anyway, a mediocre guy. If you ask me, he may just be the greatest hitter in NL history. Look at his slugging numbers. I also rank Musial the 9th greatest player ever, and the greatest LF ever. Sorry Barry, but steroids will always get you in my book. Musial lasted over such a long period of time while doing this too. His 1948 season may also be the best by a left fielder ever also. He was insane that year. Stan Musial was, and is still an icon all around baseball, and truly was "The Man."



    http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/ho...usial_Stan.jpg
    One of the very greatest there ever was. A genuinely great guy AND great ballplayer.

    Since the Forties, spent many Springs in Florida - and especially the St. Pete area - officially with the Cardinals, and otherwise. Stories of him abound, but not one negative. He truly was the ultimate gentleman of Baseball. And humble to the core.

    The most recent account I've heard of him was from a friend who used to bartend for him on the exclusive resort island of Terra Ciega. Young players and other celebrities used to drool over him, and he would always deflect the praise. Once, a couple of aspiring Cards from the Sixties came up to him at his dinner table and politely introduced their young wives or girlfriends and requested his autograph. Humbly, he thanked them for their compliments about him, but suggested the autograph they really should get was the one of the guy sitting with him at the table. When nobody seemed to recognize his dinnermate, he introduced him as one of the world's great writers. It was James Michener ... which meant a great deal to Musial, but not a whole lot evidently to the autograph seekers, so he proceeded to tell them about all his talents and achievements.

    An insignificant story by itself, perhaps, but in the context of all Musial's own talents and achievements, revealing of his true humility and gratitude.

    In his "Hit List," Williams claimed that he always regarded Musial as his equal as a hitter. I consider him right there with DiMaggio & Williams. No one gets much better than that.
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 05-27-2009 at 04:39 PM.

  3. #3
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    18,181
    Blog Entries
    1
    Relative Stats:

    ----Relative BA-----Rel.Slg.-------Rel.onbase----Rel.ISO------OPS+
    ----123.9 (16th)---137.1 (19th)----121.1 (24th)---172.6 (40th)---159 (15th)

    Home/Away------BA----Slg.----onbase-----HR-----D-----T----RBI---AB-----BB
    Home:---------.336---.582------.429-----252----393---90---851---5,403---851
    Away:---------.326----.537------.408-----223-----332---87---895---5,571---748

    Hitting Stats Comparison Chart:

    Musial, Cobb, Wagner, Hornsby, Ruth, Gehrig, T. Williams, Mantle, Mays, Aaron, DiMaggio, Speaker, Lajoie

    Code:
    Stan Musial-BA--Hits-2B---3B--HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
    Led league---7---6----8----5---0---5----2----6---6---6----0---1--6
    2nd league---2---3----3----1---1---4----0----2---7---3----0---0--4
    3rd----------5---2----1----1---1---4----3----1---0---0----0---2--0
    4th----------2---1----0----2---1---1----2----2---2---3----0---2--3
    5th----------1---0----0----1---1---1----2----2---0---1----0---2--0
    6th----------0---0----2----0---1---0----0----1---1---0----0---0--1
    
    Cobb--------BA--Hits-2B---3B---HR---R--RBI-TB---OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
    led league--12---8----3----4----1---5---4---6----7----8----6---0--11
    2nd-league---3---3----4----4----2---2---2---2----7----3----1---1---3
    3rd----------1---3----4----2----2---2---1---2----0----3----2---0---1 
    4th----------2---0----0----1----0---1---0---1----0----1----3---1---1
    5th----------1---0----0----1----0---2---1---0----1----0----0---1---0
    6th----------2---0----2----0----0---0---0---0----0----0----0---0---0
    
    Wagner-------BA--Hits-2B---3B---HR---R--RBI--TB--OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
    led league----8---2----7----3----0---2---5----7---4----6----5---0--6
    2nd league----2---2----1----3----1---2---2----1---1----3----0---0--2
    3rd-----------0---5----3----2----0---2---2----4---2----2----2---0--2
    4th-----------2---3----0----0----1---2---3----2---1----1----0---1--1
    5th-----------1---1----1----0----2---1---1----2---2----0----0---0--0
    6th-----------1---0----0----1----2---0---1----0---0----1----0---1--0
    
    Hornsby-----BA---Hits-2B---3B--HR----R--RBI--TB---OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
    led league---8----4----4----2---2----5---4----7----9----9----0---3--12
    2nd league---2----1----1----1---2----1---1----2----1----1----0---1---1
    3rd----------1----1----1----1---3----0---2----0----1----1----0---0---0
    4th----------1----3----4----0---1----2---0----0----0----1----0---2---0
    5th----------0----0----0----0---5----0---0----0----0----1----0---0---0
    6th----------0----0----0----1---1----0---1----1----1----0----0---2---1
    
    Ruth---------BA---Hits-2B---3B---HR---R--RBI--TB---OBA--SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
    led league----1----0----1----0---12---8---6----6----9---13----0--11--13
    2nd league----2----0----1----0----2---1---2--- 3----2----1----0---1---1
    3rd-----------2----0----1----0----1---0---0----2----1----1----0---1---2
    4th-----------1----3----0----0----0---0---3----0----2----0----0---0---0
    5th-----------1----0----0----0----0---1---0----0----0----0----0---0---0
    6th-----------0----2----1----1----0---1---1----0----0----0----0---0---0
    
    Gehrig------BA---Hits-2B---3B---HR--Runs--RBI--TB---OBA-SLG--SB--BB-OPS+
    Led league---1----1----1----4----2----4----4----2----4----2---0---3--3
    2nd league---2----3----0----0----4----2----4----3----2----4---0---2--6
    3rd----------3----0----0----1----3----3----2----2----3----1---0---3--3
    4th----------0----1----0----0----1----2----2----0----0----3---0---0--0
    5th----------2----1----0----0----1----0----0----1----1----0---0---0--0
    6th----------1----0----1----0----1----0----0----1----0----0---0---1--0			
    							
    Ted Williams--BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA--SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
    Led league-----6----0----2---0---4---6----4----6---12---8---0---8--9
    2nd in league--2----1----2---0---4---1----2----0----0---1---0---1--1
    3rd------------1----2----0---0---2---1----1----4----0---1---0---2--3
    4th------------1----1----2---0---0---1----1----0----0---2---0---0--0
    5th------------0----4----0---0---0---0----1----0----0---0---0---1--0
    6th------------0----0----0---0---3---0----0----0----1---0---0---1--0
    												
    Mickey Mantle--BA---Hits-2B--3B--HR---Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
    Led league------1----1----0---1---4----6----1----3---3---4---0---5--8
    2nd in league---1----0----1---0---3----2----3----4---5---0---0---3--3
    3rd-------------1----0----0---0---2----1----1----2---1---2---0---2--1
    4th-------------2----2----0---1---0----0----0----1---2---0---2---0--0	
    5th-------------0----0----0---0---1----0----2----0---0---0---0---0--0
    6th-------------0----0----0---1---0----1----3----0---1---1---0---1--0				
    
    Willie Mays----BA---Hits-2B--3B---HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
    Led league------1----1----0---3----4---2----0----3---2---5---4---1--6
    2nd in league---3----1----1---1----1---5----2----5---1---3---0---1--1
    3rd-------------2----1----1---1----3---3----3----5---2---2---0---2--5
    4th-------------0----0----0---0----1---0----2----1---1---2---1---1--2
    5th-------------1----1----0---0----2---0----1----1---5---4---0---1--0
    6th-------------1----2----2---0----2---2----2----0---1---0---0---3--1	
    
    Hank Aaron----BA--Hits-2B--3B--HR---Runs-RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
    Led league-----2---2----4---0---4----3----4---8---0---4---0---0--3
    2nd in league--0---3----2---2---4----1----0---2---2---5---1---1--4
    3rd------------0---1----1---0---1----4----2---2---3---4---0---2--4
    4th------------3---0----1---2---2----2----2---2---1---1---2---2--1
    5th------------4---0----0---0---2----1----1---0---2---1---0---0--1
    6th------------0---3----1---0---2----1----1---1---1---2---2---0--2	
    
    Joe DiMaggio---BA--Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA--SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
    Led league------2---0----0---1---2---1----2----3---0----2---0---0--1
    2nd in league---0---1----1---0---0---2----3----2---0----5---0---0--4
    3rd-------------2---1----0---4---1---0----3----1---2----0---0---0--2
    4th-------------0---2----1---0---5---0----1----1---3----0---0---0--0
    5th-------------0---0----0---0---2---2----1----2---0----0---0---0--1
    6th-------------0---1----1---0---1---1----1----0---0----1---0---0--0
    
    Tris Speaker--BA--Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs-RBI--TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
    Led league-----1---2----8---0---1---0----0----1---4---1---0---0--1
    2nd in league--2---1----3---1---2---4----1----3---3---2---0---1--4
    3rd------------7---2----1---1---0---2----1----2---4---4---1---0--5	
    4th------------2---4----0---0---2---2----2----3---3---4---1---4--3
    5th------------1---2----0---0---0---0----0----1---1---2---3---2--3
    6th------------1---0----1---1---0---2----0----0---0---1---1---3--0
    
    Nap Lajoie---BA--Hits-2B--3B--HR--Runs--RBI-TB--OBA-SLG-SB--BB-OPS+
    Led league----3---4----5---0---1----1----3---4---2---4---0---0--3
    2nd in league-3---0----4---1---0----1----1---2---2---3---0---0--3
    3rd-----------1---1----1---0---1----0----2---0---1---2---0---0--0
    4th-----------1---1----1---0---0----1----1---2---1---0---0---0--1
    5th-----------0---1----0---0---0----0----1---0---1---0---0---0--0
    6th-----------3---1----0---0---2----0----1---0---0---2---1---0--4
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    leecemark; November 26, 2004, 08:08 AM
    The Top 10 LF results
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1. Ted Williiams 227
    2. Barry Bonds 225
    3. Stan Musial 203
    4. Rickey Henderson 151
    5. Carl Yastrzemski 126
    6. Ed Delahanty 92
    7. Al Simmons 83
    8. Joe Jackson 76
    9. Tim Raines 40
    10. Ralph Kiner 26
    Others in double figures:
    11. Goose Goslin 23
    12. Willie Stargell 18
    13. Billy Williams, Manny Ramirez, Lou Brock and Turkey Stearns all with 13. Most disappointing oversight to me - Minnie Minoso.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    538280; December 9, 2005, 09:02 AM
    Poll Results
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The results are now in, and we had 15 valid ballots. Ted Williams won the poll by a healthy margin. Here is everyone who received 15 or more points (first place votes in parenthesis):

    1. Ted Williams-167 (11)
    2. Barry Bonds-138 (3)
    3. Stan Musial-126 (1)
    4. Rickey Henderson-99
    5. Carl Yastrzemski-63
    6. Al Simmons-45
    7. Ed Delahanty-45
    8. Joe Jackson-44
    9. Tim Raines-29
    10. Willie Stargell-21
    11. Turkey Stearnes-18
    -----------------------------------------------------
    Bill Burgess; May 21, 2007, 08:18 PM

    1) Williams 122
    2) Bonds 118
    3) Musial 106
    4) Henderson 81
    5) Yaz 61
    6) Joe Jackson 55
    7) Tie Raines/Ramirez 28
    9) Delahanty 25
    10) Simmons 21
    11) Wheat 11
    12) Tie Billy Williams, Stearns, Stargell 10
    15) Rose 6
    16) Goslin 5
    17) Medwick 3
    18) Tie Clarke, Kiner 1
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Greatest Hitter series, conducted by Bill Burgess, ending November 4, 2007, 08:05 AM

    1. Babe Ruth---------68 votes - 95.77%
    1. Ted Williams-------68 - 95.77%
    3. Ty Cobb-----------52 - 73.24%
    4. Rogers Hornsby----36 - 50.70%
    5. Lou Gehrig---------32 - 45.07%
    6. Barry Bonds
    7. Mickey Mantle
    8. Stan Musial
    9. Hank Aaron
    10. Willie Mays
    11. Jimmy Foxx
    12. Honus Wagner
    13. Frank Thomas
    14. Tris Speaker
    15. Frank Robinson
    16. Joe DiMaggio
    17. Joe Jackson
    18. Josh Gibson
    19. Nap Lajoie
    20. Mel Ott
    21. Oscar Charleston
    22. Alexander Rodriguez
    23. Dan Brouthers
    24. Mike Schmidt

    ------Stan Musial, Cardinals' OF, 1941-48------------Stan "The Man" Musial, 1943-----BB Reference---Stan Musial video-----------1941-48


    ---------------------------Stan Musial, 1949-50------------------------------------------1949-50


    -------------------------1957-61-------------------------------------September 19, 1949, against the Braves, in Sportsman's Park, St. Louis.

    ----------------------------1949-50------------------------------------------------------------1951-55


    Stan Musial, Cardinals' RF/1B, 1956


    Stan Musial, Cardinals' LF, 1952-55


    -----------------------------1941-50---------------------------------------------------------1957-63


    ------------------------------1941-46--------------------------------------------------------------------1941-46--------------------------------------------------1941-48


    -------------------------------------1951-55

    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 07-05-2011 at 03:41 PM.

  4. #4
    I've had a couple opportunities to meet Musial, and I would hardly call him mediocre. Next to Bobby Hull, the nicest athlete I have met at an autograph session. Honestly, LKF, what do you expect from an 85-year-old man?
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Pennsylvania Excellence Award Recipients

    Original caption: Pennsylvania awards for excellence by the Governor's committee of 100,000 Pennsylvanians were presented to nine recipients here 11/17. The recipients are pictured with Governor Raymond P. Schafer.

    Dizzy Dean visits Cardinals' dugout, w/Stan Musial, who's seen signing autographs for fans, 1957-63.


    ------------------------1957-63--------BB Reference




    November 17, 1967: Top Row: L-R: Jimmie Stewart, (Performing Arts award), Stan "The Man" Musial, (Athletics award), Reverend Leon Sullivan, (Human Relations award), James Michener, (Creative Arts award), Walter Annenberg, (Journalists award).

    Bottom Row: L-R: Dr. Herbert K. Cooper, (Life Sciences award), Richard K. Mellon, (Industrial Leadership award), Governor Shafer, Commander Charles "Pete" Conrad, Jr., (Science and Technology award), Dr. Roy F. Nichols, (Education award).



    Honoring Stan The Man - November 11, 1964 - Friar's Club

    L-R: Unidentified, Stan Musial, Willie Mays, Frank Sinatra, Sandy Koufax, Dean Martin.



    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------1942-46.
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 01-10-2011 at 02:16 PM.
    Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
    Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
    Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
    Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
    Robin JEDI

  5. #5
    Everyone (dozens in St. Pete) I've ever known to meet Stan-the-Man recall him as an exceptionally gracious and generous man. He wasn't too generous to the pitchers of the 40's and 50's, but that's why he has his own thread.

    And he's real good on harmonica, too. Buy his album(s) and you'll see, I mean hear.
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 05-27-2009 at 04:26 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    21,874
    "The Man" is the epitome of what a BALLPLAYER is supposed to be! And he is an even better person than ballplayer. I would love to meet him before he passes away.
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
    "The Man" is the epitome of what a BALLPLAYER is supposed to be! And he is an even better person than ballplayer. I would love to meet him before he passes away.
    Among living players, Musial would probably be the one I'd like to meet and spend a day with the most. In his life he's met and probably spoke a great deal with everyone from Honus Wagner to (perhaps?) Barry Bonds. He's basically the tie that binds 7 decades of baseball history together. He's one of my heroes.

    For Bill, Musial side notes:

    1. Few remember that Musial was supposed to be a pitcher, and came into the Cardinals organization. He played in West Virginia in 1939 and Stan and Daytona Beach (Class D) ball in 1940. They only carried 17 guys on the roster, so when guys weren't pitching on off days, they played elsewhere. Musial came in for a shoestring catch and landed on his shoulder, badly dislocating it. Stan actually believed that his career as a professional ballplayer was finished at that point, even though he hit .311 as a pitcher.

    When Musial showed up at spring training in 1942, he could barely pitch with any effectiveness against pros, including the likes of Enos Slaughter, Johnny Mize, and Terry Moore, all of whom hit him hard in exhibitions.

    2. Musial biographer James Giglio noted that after the injury in Daytona, "Musial could barely pitch" but also that the injury was truly a blessing in disguise.

    Ollie Vanek is the man who made the world privy to Stan Musial. In 1939, 40, and into 1941, Musial harbored a tremendous amount of self-doubt, and was really a very marginal minor league player. Vanek was the man who gave Stan his shot.

    Of course, Branch Rickey was a big part of the making of The Man, too.

    3. Musial was no Clint Hartung; he was anything but highly touted early on. He was a pitching prospect who had gotten hurt in the eyes of the Cardinals organization until late in 1941, when he moved up through the minors and became a position player, after languishing in what was really only professional baseball in name for two years.

    Some arcana from the records realm:

    Records Held
    Total bases, left handed batter, career, 6134
    Home runs, All Star Game, career, 6
    Home runs, doubleheader, 5 (May 2, 1954)
    Most seasons leading the league in doubles, 8 (tied)

    Major League Career Records
    Only player to rank in the top 25 of all 10 major hitting categories OBP-SLG-BA-HITS-2B-3B-HRS-RBIS-TB-BB
    All time Season League Leader in Different Offensive Categories - (16)
    Most straight seasons (16) with .300+ batting average - Minimum 500 Plate Appearance
    Most seasons (13) with 300 or more Total Bases - Tied with Lou Gehrig and Willie Mays
    Most straight seasons (16) with 30 or more doubles each year.
    Most straight seasons (16) to strike out 40 or fewer times - Minimum 500 PA
    First player to attain 300 HR / 3000 Hits

    Only player to hit 300 HR and over 170 3B
    Only player to hit 400 HR and strike out fewer that 700 times
    Only player to hit 400 HR and more than 700 2B
    Highest career OPS (.976)of all 3000 hit players
    First player to attain 300 HR / 3000 Hits / .300 BA
    First player to accumulate 6000 TB

    Most seasons (14) to record a .300 BA /.400 OBP /.500 SLG in the same season - Minimum 500 PA
    First player to play over 30% of games at two different postions.
    Highest career fielding percentage (.989) - over 2500 games.

    Alltime Leaders:

    Walk off Homeruns
    Jimmie Foxx……….12
    Mickey Mantle……. 12
    Stan Musial……….. 12
    Frank Robinson……12
    Babe Ruth………….12

    Other Accomplishments
    Only player in the last 60 years to record more that 170 career triples
    Only player in the last 70 years to hit 50 or more doubles in 3 different seasons
    Only player in the last 80 years to have 5 hits in 4 games in the same season
    Only player in the last 80 years to bat .300 or better for more than 16 seasons - Min. 500 PA
    Only player in the last 80 years to record over 425 TB in one season.

  8. #8

    Stan against some of the best...

    Warren Spahn vs. Stan Musial

    107 for 329 = .322 BA, .416 OBP,.584 SA, 54 BB, 29 SO, 192 Total bases in 107 games. Spahn vs. Musial included 61 runs, 23 doubles, 6 triples, 17 homers.

    How about against the franchise who dubbed him "The Man"?

    Code:
    Stan Musial vs all Dodger pitchers, 1946-1963
    
    Pitcher                AB   H 2B 3B HR  BB SO RBI    BA    OA    SA
    Bankhead, Dan           8   2  0  0  1   1  2   1  .250  .333  .625
    Banta, Jack             6   2  0  1  0   3  2   2  .333  .556  .667
    Barney, Rex            22   7  1  1  0   2  0   6  .318  .375  .455
    Behrman, Hank          23   9  1  0  2   2  0   5  .391  .440  .696
    Bessent, Don           10   3  1  0  0   2  1   1  .300  .417  .400
    Birrer, Babe            2   2  0  0  0   0  0   0 1.000 1.000 1.000
    Black, Joe             11   5  1  0  2   4  0   3  .455  .600 1.091
    Branca, Ralph          60  20  4  2  2   9  3   3  .333  .429  .567
    Calmus, Dick            1   0  0  0  0   0  1   0  .000  .000  .000
    Casey, Hugh            11   6  1  1  1   2  1   5  .545  .615 1.091
    Chandler, Ed            3   1  0  0  1   1  0   2  .333  .500 1.333
    Churn, Chuck            1   1  0  0  0   1  0   0 1.000 1.000 1.000
    Craig, Roger           50  17  2  0  2   7  3   7  .340  .414  .500
    Dockins, George         2   0  0  0  0   0  0   0  .000  .000  .000
    Drysdale, Don          68  22  4  0  1   5  6   5  .324  .360  .426
    Erskine, Carl         116  39 10  2  8  18  4  23  .336  .430  .664
    Farrell, Turk           2   1  0  0  0   0  0   0  .500  .500  .500
    Fowler, Art             3   0  0  0  0   0  0   0  .000  .000  .000
    Giallombardo, Bob       1   1  0  0  1   0  0   1 1.000 1.000 4.000
    Golden, Jim             1   0  0  0  0   1  0   0  .000  .500  .000
    Gregg, Hal             10   6  1  1  1   1  0   3  .600  .636 1.200
    Hatten, Joe            72  27 10  1  2  12  2  10  .375  .477  .625
    Haugstad, Phil          1   0  0  0  0   0  0   0  .000  .000  .000
    Head, Ed                2   2  0  1  0   0  0   1 1.000 1.000 2.000
    Herring, Art            4   1  0  0  0   0  0   0  .250  .250  .250
    Higbe, Kirby           12   2  1  0  0   3  1   1  .167  .333  .250
    Hughes, Jim            15   3  2  0  0   4  2   1  .200  .368  .333
    King, Clyde             9   1  0  0  0   5  0   0  .111  .429  .111
    Kipp, Fred              7   5  2  0  0   2  0   1  .714  .778 1.000
    Klippstein, Johnny      6   3  2  0  0   3  1   3  .500  .667  .833
    Koufax, Sandy          38  13  1  0  2   6  5   7  .342  .432  .526
    Labine, Clem           40   9  1  1  1   5  2   2  .225  .311  .375
    Landrum, Joe            2   1  1  0  0   0  0   0  .500  .500 1.000
    LaSorda, Tom            1   0  0  0  0   1  1   1  .000  .333  .000
    Lehman, Ken             7   2  0  0  1   1  0   2  .286  .375  .714
    Loes, Billy            14   7  2  0  1   5  0   4  .500  .632  .857
    Lombardi, Vic          33  12  0  4  1   4  1   4  .364  .432  .697
    Maglie, Sal             6   2  0  0  0   1  2   1  .333  .429  .333
    Martin, Morrie          4   0  0  0  0   0  1   0  .000  .000  .000
    McDevitt, Danny        13   4  0  0  0   3  1   1  .308  .438  .308
    McLish, Cal             1   1  0  0  0   0  0   0 1.000 1.000 1.000
    Melton, Rube            9   5  1  0  0   1  0   1  .556  .600  .667
    Meyer, Russ             9   2  0  0  0   3  0   0  .222  .417  .222
    Miller, Bob             9   4  0  0  1   0  0   1  .444  .444  .778
    Milliken, Bob          11   2  0  0  0   1  1   4  .182  .250  .182
    Minner, Paul           15   7  1  0  3   1  0   3  .467  .500 1.133
    Moore, Ray              2   1  0  0  1   0  0   2  .500  .500 2.000
    Mossor, Earl            1   0  0  0  0   0  1   0  .000  .000  .000
    Newcombe, Don         101  37  7  3  8   8  6  21  .366  .409  .733
    Ortega, Phil            1   0  0  0  0   0  0   0  .000  .000  .000
    Palica, Erv            21   9  2  2  1   6  0   8  .429  .556  .857
    Palmquist, Ed           1   0  0  0  0   1  0   0  .000  .500  .000
    Perranoski, Ron        12   6  2  0  0   3  0   5  .500  .600  .667
    Podbielan, Bud          6   3  0  0  0   4  0   1  .500  .700  .500
    Podres, Johnny        108  38  8  1  5  11  8  18  .352  .418  .583
    Ramsdell, Willie        0   0  0  0  0   1  0   0  .000 1.000  .000
    Richert, Pete           6   1  1  0  0   1  0   1  .167  .286  .333
    Roe, Preacher         137  52  9  1 12  13 13  28  .380  .433  .723
    Roebuck, Ed            20   5  0  0  2   4  0   5  .250  .400  .550
    Rowe, Ken               1   1  0  0  0   0  0   0 1.000 1.000 1.000
    Rutherford, Johnny      5   1  0  0  0   1  0   1  .200  .333  .200
    Schmitz, Johnny         4   1  0  1  0   2  0   1  .250  .500  .750
    Scott, Dick             2   0  0  0  0   0  0   0  .000  .000  .000
    Sherry, Larry          20   6  1  1  1   5  3   4  .300  .440  .600
    Snyder, Gene            2   0  0  0  0   0  0   0  .000  .000  .000
    Spooner, Karl          12   2  0  0  0   0  1   3  .167  .214  .167
    Taylor, Harry          18   3  1  0  0   3  1   0  .167  .286  .222
    Templeton, Chuck        4   2  0  0  0   1  0   1  .500  .571  .500
    VanCuyk, Johnny         0   0  0  0  0   1  0   0  .000 1.000  .000
    VanCuyk, Chris         20   6  2  0  0   4  3   1  .300  .417  .400
    Wade, Ben              18   5  1  0  2   4  1   6  .278  .409  .667
    Webber, Les             3   0  0  0  0   1  0   0  .000  .250  .000
    Williams, Stan         31   9  1  0  1   4  3   5  .290  .371  .419
    Wojey, Pete             1   0  0  0  0   0  0   0  .000  .000  .000
    
    Totals               1308 447 85 24 67 198 83 226  .342  .429  .597
    Much more biographical information to come!

  9. #9
    Wait, is this Stan's own thread, or is it just to be a discussion of personal stories/anecdotes/biographical information? If so, apologies and I'll erase my previous posts....
    Last edited by csh19792001; 07-10-2007 at 03:43 PM.

  10. #10

    On salary and potential career moves...

    Speaking of Cardinal management, arbitration, and salary offers. I read that in 1946, the infamous Pasquel brothers had started the Mexican League and were raiding the Majors. They offered Stan Musial a $130,000 dollar contract, including a $50,000 cash advance. The Cards management was notoriously cheap- often through no fault of their own due to being a small market team on the western frontier. At that point Stan was making $13,500 a year, but thankfully for us, he turned the offer down.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by csh19792001 View Post
    Wait, is this Stan's own thread, or is it just to be a discussion of personal stories/anecdotes/biographical information? If so, apologies and I'll erase my previous posts....
    I thought this was Stan's very own thread. If it is, it's about time.
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  12. #12
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    "He didn't hit a homer in his last at-bat (like Ted Williams); he hit a single. He didn't hit in 56 straight games. He married his high school sweetheart and stayed married to her, never married a Marilyn Monroe (like Joe DiMaggio). He didn't play with the sheer joy and style that goes alongside Willie Mays' name. None of those easy things are there to associate with Stan Musial. All Musial represents is more than two decades of sustained excellence and complete decency as a human being." -Bob Costas


    "[Musial] was never colorful, never much of an interview. He makes a better statue. What he was, was a ballplayer. He didn't spit at fans, he didn't get into fights in nightclubs, he didn't marry anybody famous. He hustled. You look at his career totals of doubles and triples, and they'll remind you of something that was accepted while he was active, and has been largely forgotten since: Stan Musial was one player who always left the batter's box on a dead run." -Bill James
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Cold Nose View Post
    I've had a couple opportunities to meet Musial, and I would hardly call him mediocre. Next to Bobby Hull, the nicest athlete I have met at an autograph session. Honestly, LKF, what do you expect from an 85-year-old man?

    First off Bobby Hull IS a very nice guy. Any hockey fans on BBF I would recommend meeting. As for Musial- he wasn't a jerk like Deion Sanders, or as nice as Paul Molitor (He gave me a FREE signed HOF 04 Ball right in front of me, because my jersey card he tried to sign for me wouldn't turn up), but Musial was nice enough to toss the ball up to me when he signed my ball.


    HWR- I agree, Stan Musial does deserve his own thread. I have him #6 all time.

    On Musial: “Here stands baseball's perfect warrior. Here stands baseball's perfect knight.”

    — Ford C. Frick

  14. #14
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    However much attention Stan receives on Fever, it always feels as if he is under-discussed, under-written, and under-valued.

    I think he is 'too nice' to be a media-hog. Nice guys seem to fly under the radar. Seems one needs to be a little 'bad' to garner much attention. Great players such as Sisler, E. Collins, Gehrig, J. Foxx, Killebrew had that same problem in their time.

    Lack of 'color', caused them to go under-written in their day.

  15. #15
    STLtoday.com published a great story on him on April 1 of this year; it's titled "Stan Musial: Still the Man." (Written by Derrick Goold)

    A few great personal stories, insights, and summaries of his career, too. How about the birthday party?


    [I couldn't attach it, but it's at STLtoday.com, searchable with the above info.]
    Last edited by TRfromBR; 07-10-2007 at 10:08 PM.

  16. #16
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    There's a new Musial biography coming out in late August.

    http://www.amazon.com/Stan-Musial-Bi...4171283&sr=1-2
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  17. #17
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    My thing about Stan's thread is there isn't a whole lot to say about him. His stats speak for themselves, he was a great great player, but also a very dry player.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by csh19792001 View Post
    Speaking of Cardinal management, arbitration, and salary offers. I read that in 1946, the infamous Pasquel brothers had started the Mexican League and were raiding the Majors. They offered Stan Musial a $130,000 dollar contract, including a $50,000 cash advance. The Cards management was notoriously cheap- often through no fault of their own due to being a small market team on the western frontier. At that point Stan was making $13,500 a year, but thankfully for us, he turned the offer down.
    That's a crazy offer, jeez. Honestly, I'm surprised he did turn it down. I don't think I would have.

    This just reminded me about a passage from My Turn At Bat about Ted Williams' meeting with Pasquel.

    "I knew the moment I got in Pasquel's room I wasn't interested. The room was filled with smoke, his friends were puffing on those big Havana cigars, and there was Pasquel. He had diamonds all over him, diamonds on this finger and that finger, a big diamond stickpin. I mean, every one of them three- or four-carat diamonds, big diamonds. He absolutely glittered. And I'll never forget, when he talked he sprayed you. Nothing intentional, but he kind of spit his words out, and he sprayed you.

    He spoke good English, and I could see where he could make a fellow starry-eyed. He offered me $300,000 - a three year contract at $100,000 a year. I was making $40,000 with the Red Sox. I had some questions about how you would get your money in and out. I'd begun to hear things. (Getting their money proved to be a big problem for the guys who jumped. Mickey Owen told some hair-raising stories.) The thing is, it all seemed phony to me. I was on the verge of big money anyway, and the only team I wanted to play for was the Red Sox, so it was easy for me to say no."

    It is sort of interesting Pasquel was offering Musial more per season than Williams, despite the fact Musial was getting paid less to begin with.
    Last edited by iPod; 07-12-2007 at 03:35 AM.
    "Hall of Famer Whitey Ford now on the field... pleading with the crowd for, for some kind of sanity!"

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by iPod View Post
    That's a crazy offer, jeez. Honestly, I'm surprised he did turn it down. I don't think I would have.

    This just reminded me about a passage from My Turn At Bat about Ted Williams' meeting with Pasquel.

    "I knew the moment I got in Pasquel's room I wasn't interested. The room was filled with smoke, his friends were puffing on those big Havana cigars, and there was Pasquel. He had diamonds all over him, diamonds on this finger and that finger, a big diamond stickpin. I mean, every one of them three- or four-carat diamonds, big diamonds. He absolutely glittered. And I'll never forget, when he talked he sprayed you. Nothing intentional, but he kind of spit his words out, and he sprayed you.

    He spoke good English, and I could see where he could make a fellow starry-eyed. He offered me $300,000 - a three year contract at $100,000 a year. I was making $40,000 with the Red Sox. I had some questions about how you would get your money in and out. I'd begun to hear things. (Getting their money proved to be a big problem for the guys who jumped. Mickey Owen told some hair-raising stories.) The thing is, it all seemed phony to me. I was on the verge of big money anyway, and the only team I wanted to play for was the Red Sox, so it was easy for me to say no."

    It is sort of interesting Pasquel was offering Musial more per season than Williams, despite the fact Musial was getting paid less to begin with.
    It's not so surprising. Think of it from the player's point of view. MLB was very adamant that any player that jumps to the Mexican League will get suspended for five years. I doubt Stan wanted to risk his major league career like that.
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  20. #20
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    Hey, Stan isn't that colorless -- he plays a mean harmonica!
    "Hey Mr. McGraw! Can I pitch to-day?"

  21. #21
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    His 1948 season may also be the best by a left fielder ever also.

    Ever hear of a couple fair left fielders named George Herman Ruth and Theodore Samuel Williams?

    I take nothing away from Musial, but the best season by a left fielder? Hardly.

    I saw Musial play in person numerous times at Wrigley Field. He was one of the few Cubs' opponents who I sincerely admired. Even though he broke my heart dozens of times with his hitting.

    Bob

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by iPod View Post

    It is sort of interesting Pasquel was offering Musial more per season than Williams, despite the fact Musial was getting paid less to begin with.
    Plus, Pasquel could have played up the Mexican heritage angle.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by iPod View Post
    That's a crazy offer, jeez. Honestly, I'm surprised he did turn it down. I don't think I would have.

    This just reminded me about a passage from My Turn At Bat about Ted Williams' meeting with Pasquel.

    "I knew the moment I got in Pasquel's room I wasn't interested. The room was filled with smoke, his friends were puffing on those big Havana cigars, and there was Pasquel. He had diamonds all over him, diamonds on this finger and that finger, a big diamond stickpin. I mean, every one of them three- or four-carat diamonds, big diamonds. He absolutely glittered. And I'll never forget, when he talked he sprayed you. Nothing intentional, but he kind of spit his words out, and he sprayed you.

    He spoke good English, and I could see where he could make a fellow starry-eyed. He offered me $300,000 - a three year contract at $100,000 a year. I was making $40,000 with the Red Sox. I had some questions about how you would get your money in and out. I'd begun to hear things. (Getting their money proved to be a big problem for the guys who jumped. Mickey Owen told some hair-raising stories.) The thing is, it all seemed phony to me. I was on the verge of big money anyway, and the only team I wanted to play for was the Red Sox, so it was easy for me to say no."

    It is sort of interesting Pasquel was offering Musial more per season than Williams, despite the fact Musial was getting paid less to begin with.

    I think the (five) Pasquel Brothers did successfully raid the Big Leagues for 23 players. Hornsby quit in '44 after hitting a grand slam, and being told not to do that 'cause it was [regarded] bad for business. A major lawsuit spun out of the Mickey Owen fiasco. Time magazine called it Owen's "biggest error since his dropped third strike ... to lose the '41 World Series for the Dodgers." Pretty rough editorial, I thought.

    It certainly wouldn't haven't suited Williams temperament and lifestyle. And his Mom might have showed up at even more games. Not to mention the superior fishing was North of the Border.

    Ringleader Jorge Pasquel pictured below. He had six Lincolns and a private haberdashery in his mansion.

    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by TRfromBR; 07-12-2007 at 11:23 PM.

  24. #24
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    He wasn't all that interesting...he just played well for a long time. He never did anything that historic, he didn't break the HRs or hits record, he played the game because he liked it. I mean he was a great player, but not a very interesting one. He never had any ideas on hitting or anything like Williams or Cobb did. He was never as stylish as DiMaggio was, he didn't go to war so there isn't the "what could have been" angle...his best seasons came during WW2 so alot of people knock him for that.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by bluezebra View Post

    I take nothing away from Musial, but the best season by a left fielder? Hardly.
    Considering Musial's competition and his dominance over said competition, his 1948 season stacks up with any of that of either Williams or Ruth.

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