Jorge Posada?

[Myankee4life]

Is Jorge Posada a HOF?

He's had 8 full (300+ AB) seasons and hes 34 now.

Career Numbers

.270/.377/.471 617(RS) 1091(H) 244(2B) 185(HR) 717(RBI)

Seasonal Averages

.270/.377/.471 83(RS) 146(H) 33(2B) 25(HR) 96(RBI) 89(BB)

Rel BA Rel OB Rel Slg OPS+
100 112 109 121

He's hit 20+Hrs 5x.......80+ RBI's 5x.....20+ 2B's 5x......80+BB 4x.........400+ OB% 3X....has played 130+ games most of his career showing hes very durable..(while also playing hurt).... Is a decent defender with a strong arm .......Is a 4X champion......a 4X silver slugger.......and finished top 3 in MVP in 2003..........all as a cacther.....he's showin no signs of slowing down as hes hitting .292/.410/.492 10Hr's 39RBI's

besides Piazza and I-rod he's been the best cactcher for the last decade.....so is he HOF caliber??

[1961]

He so quietly goes about his business that I wonder if maybe that doesn't work against him.

[baseball junkie]

He doesn't even top Thurman Munson. Until "The Wall" has a plaque hanging on the wall in Cooperstown, no other Yankee catcher should either.

[KCGHOST]

I have him slightly ahead of Munson, but rather off the pace to be an HoFer. He's isn't near as good as Wally Schang or Ted Simmons.

[538280]

Posada is a really good hitter for a catcher, not great defensively but his offense still makes him a really, really good and valuable player. He's certainly not there yet, but if he can continue to hit for 3-5 more years I wouldn't consider it out of the realm that he could be a deserving HOFer. He very well may surpass both Munson and Howard to become the 3rd greatest Yankee catcher (behind Berra and Dickey). Schang also spent some time with the Yankees, he could end up being about equal with him. Which would be a borderline case. His defense is working against him though.

[rockin500]

Posada is a really good hitter for a catcher, not great defensively but his offense still makes him a really, really good and valuable player. He's certainly not there yet, but if he can continue to hit for 3-5 more years I wouldn't consider it out of the realm that he could be a deserving HOFer. He very well may surpass both Munson and Howard to become the 3rd greatest Yankee catcher (behind Berra and Dickey). Schang also spent some time with the Yankees, he could end up being about equal with him. Which would be a borderline case. His defense is working against him though.

theres no way he is going to be a catcher 3-5 years. not unless teams are really stupid since he isnt good defensively anymore (not that he was ever anything above average) and all of his numbers are declining.

he has zero shot considering his age.

[Fuzzy Bear]

He's borderline, but Simmons, Munson, Javy Lopez, and some others are really ahead of him. Lance Parrish and Bill Freehan are ahead of him.

[Outta Here]

Sorry it's a NO from me for Jorge

[Fuzzy Bear]

I can't imagine Posada lasting long enough to attain 300 HRs as a catcher. That's what he'd really need to be a candidate.

Posada is more of a full-timer than Wally Schang, who I do NOT consider to be better than Posada, but not as much of a full-timer as the great catchers of his day (Piazza, I-Rod).

[redban]

I'd say no to Posada.

He's been a good player...but not great.

[rugbyfreak]

Posada is a really good hitter for a catcher, not great defensively but his offense still makes him a really, really good and valuable player. He's certainly not there yet, but if he can continue to hit for 3-5 more years I wouldn't consider it out of the realm that he could be a deserving HOFer. He very well may surpass both Munson and Howard to become the 3rd greatest Yankee catcher (behind Berra and Dickey). Schang also spent some time with the Yankees, he could end up being about equal with him. Which would be a borderline case. His defense is working against him though.

I'm pretty much with you, Joe: Outside shot, but unlikely to happen. I've been telling Yankee fans for years (who for some reason rag him for, apparently, not being Munson) that when he's gone, they're gonna miss him more than they know. Durable, switch hitter, fine power, numbers that are elite among catchers, and basically, since '99, has given us that comfort you derive from an everyday player you never have to worry about, a real solid citizen. Plus underrated defense--or more accurately, over-maligned.

Ironically, the most legit knock on him--his poor post-season performance: just 8 HR, 29 RBI, .369 SLG in 21 total series--is one the fans gloss over completely, because the Yanks usually won. I blame Torre here, as he rides him so hard in the regular season (most games caught by anyone since 2000) that he always seems worn out come Oct. A surprising oversight from a former catcher.

Before Posada--or any other catcher--I'm solidly behind getting Simmons in the Hall. And the credentials of Schang, while solid, have all but faded with time (nearly 100 years since he broke in), never to return. I doubt there are more than a handful of guys left who even saw him play. He is a Rick Ferrell-type case, someone who needs that extra verbal push, and he certainly got it back in '84. I once read transcripts from peers speaking about him, and they were glowing, the most common being "one of the finest receivers I ever saw." Which is exactly what a quiet, unassuming catcher with equally quiet (but solid) numbers who played for lousy teams (no post-season) needs. One thing he has way over Schang: He hit his prime just as the All-Star game came into being, and his eight appearances speak to the high opinion held about him in his time.

[Blackout]

posada probably won't make it

but i wouldn't necessarily be opposed to him being elected. he's definetely one of the more consistant offensive catchers over the years, amazing discipline too.

i just don't see it happening.

[SABR Matt]

Not a good enough fielder to be HOF worthy at a skill position (C). Posada is a nice hitter and all, but he doesn't currently crack my top 30 catchers all time and his career is almost over.

[mtortolero]

I can not say NO to someone active with his numbers (121 OPS+ carrer for a catcher is a very good number ) and right now having other nice season (288 avg, 874 OPS, 42 rbi, 7 Hr in 59 games).
However his chances are in the time he can keep playing as catcher at the same level because he needs other four seasons (without the current) to have some HOF carrer figures. Nothing is imposible but with 35 years old in that position life can not be easy.

[SABR Matt]

You must be ready to enshrine Kenji Johjima then. He's got even more scintillating numbers this year and he's still adjusting to American baseball.

[mtortolero]

You must be ready to enshrine Kenji Johjima then. He's got even more scintillating numbers this year and he's still adjusting to American baseball.

My comentary about the season Posada is having this year is because someone in this thread post he was done. About Johjima, he is only seven seasons behind where Posada is right now only to start a similar thread, then I sppose we can waste that time talking about Posada.

[SABR Matt]

Johjima is only seven years behind if you give no credit whatsoever to his accomplishments in Japan.

And Johjima can actually field his position unlike Posada.

In any event, NEITHER player is a hall of famer. End of story.

[mtortolero]

Johjima is only seven years behind if you give no credit whatsoever to his accomplishments in Japan.

And Johjima can actually field his position unlike Posada.

In any event, NEITHER player is a hall of famer. End of story.

... not yet.

[Blackout]

Not a good enough fielder to be HOF worthy at a skill position (C). Posada is a nice hitter and all, but he doesn't currently crack my top 30 catchers all time and his career is almost over.

nearly over? his OPS this year is 30 points higher than his career average.

[SABR Matt]

That won't last...his statistical decline since 2002 is quite distinct.

[ichiro262]

Posada is done. He's been good for the Yankees -- he's a nice player -- but he's done. His OBP will decline when the Yankees get some of their hitters back. It will probably decline anyway, that's what his history would tell us.

[538280]

That won't last...his statistical decline since 2002 is quite distinct.

Maybe defensively, but it's hard to see how Posada has been declining so distinctly since 2002. OPS+ by year:

2000: 134
2001: 119
2002: 123
2003: 146
2004: 133
2005: 105

Somewhat of a decline, but he had been at about the same OPS+ level until last year. Considering the way he's hitting so far this year it is conceivable that could just be an off year. I agree with his defensive ability he's not likely to last all that long, but it is conceivable that he could. A move to 1B might be possible as well, with Giambi there and Williams almost done at DH.

[SABR Matt]

That shuold have read 2003. *sigh* CHECK YOUR POSTS, MATT...LOL

And I'm looking mostly at more predictive type statistics like HR/XBH (you can tell a batter is in decline when his XBH start being all or nothing HR and no XBH kinda deal...his HR/XBH have been climbing), BB Rate (when your swing slows down, you start having trouble being as selective as you'd like - this is also in decline) and the like. You can't infer too much from a straight OPS line because there's a large component of luck involved when it comes to your BA on balls in play. Remember, the year before Dan Wilson vanished offensively, he miraculously hit .295...he didn't become a better hitter...he just got more lucky singles. So when I'm projecting a player I don't pay too much attention to BA and its' derivativies and children (including OPS).

Posada's decline started in '04, though it was subtle. The fact that both his K and BB rates are dropping precipitously leads me to believe he's swinging at more pitches early in the count because he's becoming a "guess hitter"...this is pretty common for players his age...especially catchers.

[SABR Matt]

Also note carefully that in 2006, Posada is batting fourth or fifth a lot with key players out, so pitchers aren't giving him anything to hit...that's why his OBP jumped back up this year.

[Fuzzy Bear]

That won't last...his statistical decline since 2002 is quite distinct.

Well, he's having quite a year, and if he fades a bit, this year may still, statistically, be a career season.

This year is out of context with the rest of his career, but lots of HOFers have such years.

I still think Posada needs 300 HRs to make the HOF. A few more All-Star selections would help as well. Posada doesn't have a good glove rep, and he doesn't have any Gold Gloves, so his offense will have to be his ticket if he's to be inducted into the HOF. The year he's having certainly has the possibility of boosting his chances significantly, though.