The Bitter Rivals Thread

**KenFougere** · 06-07-2003, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by Mattingly
Joe Torre blew Clemens' 300th opportunity by bringing in Juan Acevedo. The man couldn't pitch to save his life, and promptly gave up a 2-run HR on his first pitch.

Now that the Yanks are down 4-1, I'm going into a tiny room and sulk somewhere! Boy, this is pathetic.

Clemens should be SOOOOOO pissed-off at Torre. 80-something pitches? For Clemens? That's nothing for him... One pitch-...-gone!
...

**Sandman** · 06-07-2003, 02:53 PM

They said at the end of the game he was having Respiratory Problems.

**Mattingly** · 06-07-2003, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by KenFougere
Clemens should be SOOOOOO pissed-off at Torre. 80-something pitches? For Clemens? That's nothing for him... One pitch-...-gone!
...

Torre's excuse was about Acevedo was that "he's in the pen". I mean, slap someone silly, but if 90 year old Grandma Mable is in the pen, does she go out also?

Osuna, Weaver, Hitchcock, someone like that who's usually reliable, that's who goes out. All they needed was 5 outs before they get to Mo Rivera, but by then, Posada's solo HR in the 9th didn't matter.

Ugly game. I mean beyond ugly!

For the pitch count, I don't know about from his Boston days, but I've seen him pitch 125 games in an 8 inning win before handing the ball to Mo Rivera at home. He seemed to be uncomfortable and losing effectiveness, but it's still a funky call.

**YankeeMan** · 06-07-2003, 06:16 PM

I questioned Torre pulling Roger the instant it happened. My wife (Cubs fan) was glad to see him go.

**Atlanta Braves Freak** · 06-07-2003, 06:28 PM

Joe Torre must have been out of his mind to pull Roger. Just think if he would have stayed in maybe the Yanks would have scored and won.

**Biggerin** · 06-07-2003, 08:08 PM

I was about to go sulk in my room tonight as the sox were down 10-4 in the 6th.

Then meuller hit a pinch hit home run, and I went back to the "Even Stevens" marathon on the disney channel. Yes, that was more entertaining than this game.

Then, keven millar hit a pinch hit grand slam to make it 10-9

Then, trot nixon hit a solo shot to tie the game in the top of the ninth.

Then, jason varitek hit a solo shot to make it 11-10 red sox.

Then, mike timlin closes it out, game over...

Ahh, it's good to be a sox fan sometimes

**KenFougere** · 06-07-2003, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by Mattingly
For the pitch count, I don't know about from his Boston days, but I've seen him pitch 125 games in an 8 inning win before handing the ball to Mo Rivera at home. He seemed to be uncomfortable and losing effectiveness, but it's still a funky call. [/B]

Clemens is a work-horse. He'll have no problem going 125-140 / 9innings

**Mattingly** · 06-07-2003, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by KenFougere
Clemens is a work-horse. He'll have no problem going 125-140 / 9innings

The 125 pitches was from about last August at Yankee Stadium. He'd just turned 40 then and didn't have 300 looming so close. He'd gotten behind a few hitters, allowed 1 or 2 baserunners, but runs didn't score much, had about 13 Ks.

We need to score more runs, since a 1-0 game is too close when there are 2+ innings to go, including who to use in the pen.

Hopefully, whatever bothers Clemens, be it the pressure, his cold, his super pent up energy, I hope he's OK next Friday. At least he could join Seaver in winning #300 at Ruth's house.

I'd like him to do about 110 and 6-7 innings, then someone like Osuna, Hitchcock or Weaver can go through the 8th, then Mo picks it up. Hopefully, that script will be followed and we'll finally win against the Cards.

**KenFougere** · 06-08-2003, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by Mattingly
The 125 pitches was from about last August at Yankee Stadium. He'd just turned 40 then and didn't have 300 looming so close. He'd gotten behind a few hitters, allowed 1 or 2 baserunners, but runs didn't score much, had about 13 Ks.

We need to score more runs, since a 1-0 game is too close when there are 2+ innings to go, including who to use in the pen.

Hopefully, whatever bothers Clemens, be it the pressure, his cold, his super pent up energy, I hope he's OK next Friday. At least he could join Seaver in winning #300 at Ruth's house.

I'd like him to do about 110 and 6-7 innings, then someone like Osuna, Hitchcock or Weaver can go through the 8th, then Mo picks it up. Hopefully, that script will be followed and we'll finally win against the Cards.

I keep forgetting he's alot older now . . .
The only time Clemens would need 140 pitches, is a night he didn't have his good stuff and was struggling. I really am pulling for him to reach both 4000th K & 300th Win in the same night . . .

**baseballwise** · 06-08-2003, 09:33 PM

YankeeMan...please tell your wife, one Cub fan to another from me, that I was VERY disappointed to see Rocket leave the game. After the Choi incident, his loss took the wind out of the game's sails....until the Cubs won, of course.

Torre said Clemens had an upper respiratory infection which caused his retreat and he did a lot of coughing in the dugout during tonight's game.

All's well that ends well.....so I'm happy the Cubs were able to help put the Red Sox a half game into first place as we took two games. Also great to see Sam get hit # 2,000!

**KenFougere** · 06-08-2003, 11:55 PM

[list=1]
Both teams better beware of incoming Cardinals!

[*]Boston Red Sox .......35 - 26
[*]New York Yankees....35 - 27 ½ [/list=1]

*{ Gee...tough weekend in Wrigley huh... }

**brewcrew82** · 06-09-2003, 12:18 AM

Originally posted by KenFougere
[list=1]
Both teams better beware of incoming Cardinals!

[*]Boston Red Sox .......35 - 26
[*]New York Yankees....35 - 27 ½ [/list=1]

*{ Gee...tough weekend in Wrigley huh... }

But come on you played the Brewers...You were lucky to get 2 of 3 from us!

**NickG** · 06-09-2003, 12:25 AM

Originally posted by YankeeMan
I questioned Torre pulling Roger the instant it happened. My wife (Cubs fan) was glad to see him go.

I questioned it too -- a Cubs fan and a Yankee hater was happy to see him go... strange how these things work out, huh?

**KenFougere** · 06-09-2003, 01:06 AM

Originally posted by brewcrew82
But come on you played the Brewers...You were lucky to get 2 of 3 from us!

That late-inning comeback from 6 runs down Saturday was heroic,

not lucky... Sunday's 9-1 win was due to a solid outing by Lowe

and your guy pitching batting practice to the Sox . . . . . .

{Please make sure to thank him for us!..

}

**brewcrew82** · 06-09-2003, 01:13 AM

I'm not taking away from todays 9-1 win...I KNEW you guys would take that one, you had Lowe...we had Glendon Rusch (1-9 this year, with his lone win vs. Pitt).

If we had a decent bullpen, the second game may have turned out a touch different!

**brewcrew82** · 06-09-2003, 01:14 AM

As for thanking him...YOU CAN HAVE HIM!!!!!

**KenFougere** · 06-09-2003, 01:25 AM

Originally posted by brewcrew82
If we had a decent bullpen, the second game may have turned out a touch different!

Believe me, boy, do I know that! Homeruns were flying out for us that night just when we needed them ...
Again, our heartfelt thanks to the Brewers staff! . . . .

**KenFougere** · 06-09-2003, 01:42 AM

Originally posted by baseballwise

All's well that ends well.....
so I'm happy the Cubs were able to help put the Red Sox a half game into first place
as we took two games. Also great to see Sam get hit #2,000!

. . Baseballwise,
Congratulations on a very successful weekend! . . .

**Mattingly** · 06-09-2003, 08:50 AM

[quoted by Ken]

I keep forgetting he's alot older now . . .
The only time Clemens would need 140 pitches, is a night he didn't have his good stuff and was struggling. I really am pulling for him to reach both 4000th K & 300th Win in the same night . . .

Normally with Clemens, a high pitch count indicates he's gotten behind a lot of batters and has needed to work harder than necessary. He guts it out and makes the 2-out 2-runner strikeout or ground that he needs, but more laborous than necessary.

He should get 300/4,000, since he's now at 299/3,996. We'll see how fiesty St Louis is this weekend. Hopefully Saturday, since I'm not sure how Clemens feels about Friday the 13th.

**KenFougere** · 06-09-2003, 07:41 PM

The silence is {a welcome change} but deafening ...

It's been awfully quite down there in Mudville...
Is the reality a bit disheartening that his superYman team is vulnerable this season?

**Mattingly** · 06-09-2003, 08:11 PM

Quoted by Ken:

"The silence is {a welcome change} but deafening ...

It's been awfully quite down there in Mudville...
Is the reality a bit disheartening that his superYman team is vulnerable this season?"

I'm curious, why do you use quotes when posting?

Every team's vulnerable. Of course, if a team picks it up and has a good series, that always puts a smile on my face.

My next test is to see who has a better series against St Louis. Boston or the Yanks.

**YankeeMan** · 06-09-2003, 08:50 PM

Sorry I've been MIA but I was at Wrigley!

**aroundthehorn** · 06-09-2003, 09:00 PM

Hope you had fun at Wrigley, watching the very healthy future of pitching in baseball: Wood and Prior

mow 'em down 21 times.

How long they stay with the Cubs is anyone's guess ?
But as long as they are in contention, now is the time to get Mike Lowell at 3B to solidify the run for the NL crown.

**KenFougere** · 06-09-2003, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by YankeeMan
Sorry I've been MIA but I was at Wrigley!

Have a good time, buddy?

**KenFougere** · 06-09-2003, 09:13 PM

Originally posted by Mattingly
Quoted by Ken:

"The silence is {a welcome change} but deafening ...

It's been awfully quite down there in Mudville...
Is the reality a bit disheartening that his superYman team is vulnerable this season?"

I'm curious, why do you use quotes when posting?

Every team's vulnerable. Of course, if a team picks it up and has a good series, that always puts a smile on my face.

My next test is to see who has a better series against St Louis. Boston or the Yanks.

St. Louis will be a very tough series for both Boston and New York. They look like a powerful offensive team . . . . . .