Secondly, have you even been to any games where there were females playing, and if so, how many games and what type of experience do they have?
Remember, your corner of the world is not the only corner that exists. Just because you may not have witnessed it doesn't mean it's not true and hasn't happened in another corner of the world... even if you haven't heard about it.
"Anna Makes #1 State Team
WBL Sparks player, Anna Kimbrell, just made the #1 12U boys’ baseball team in South Carolina. Anna was invited to try out for this team after being scouted at Cooperstown Dreams Park while playing for the Sparks. Another Anna story…last season she smashed a home run by hitting the flagpole and threw a no-hitter in the same game. Congratulations Anna!"
Talent is not gender-biased. Strength is, though. So given, a male and female blessed with equal talent, equally intent and dedicated to harnessing and developing that talent, the male is going to throw the ball harder and hit the ball further - all things being equal. But, again, that is not talent.
The other thing to consider is that females are often discouraged from developing natural athletic talents, or pressured to divert their attempts to hone their skills from baseball to softball. It's not really a level playing field, because female athletes have to overcome more than male athletes. For females to even be competitive with men, it is a great accomplishment because of the obstacles in the face of that accomplishment. But, yet again, direct male-female competition need not be the standard by which we judge female athletes or athletics.
THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT COME WITH A SCORECARD
In the avy: AZ - Doe or Die
Women can learn to hit a 95+ mph fastball, hit curveballs, change-ups, etc. That doesn't require the highest level of strength or even much strength for that matter. It requires seeing the ball, being able to time the ball, and enough skill to be able to hit the ball, and success of hitting depends on how effectively one hits the ball. None of those require strength, and women are not inferior to men at being able to hit such pitches. Most of it takes focus of mind along with the physical skills. Some people are lucky and don't have to focus on focusing their minds and can be successful by just doing. This isn't gender-biased.
Can women ever get to the point of throwing 90+ mph? Who knows, but I never say anything is impossible. Right now, there are several women who are playing hardball who can throw in the 70's and that pool continues to grow, and the elite of women pitchers right now are throwing in the 80's. Can this be improved upon? It's very highly likely.
Can women hit homeruns? Of course they can. I've seen women hit balls 300+ feet, and that's off pitchers throwing in the mid-60's. Just think of how much further the ball would go if a woman was hitting a 90+ mph pitch.
Anyway, like digglahhh said, direct male-female competition shouldn't be the standard for women's athletics and athletes. The mind that focuses on power and on comparing everything one group does to what another group does is focusing on nothing but external power rather than skill, ability, talent, focus, work ethic, mental toughness, believing in one's self, etc.
Would anyone compare men's collegiate baseball to MLB? Of course not. Why? Because it's its own entity, just like high school baseball is and minor league baseball is. So, why would anyone continue to compare women's baseball to MLB, especially when all women have right now are amateur baseball leagues and teams and a U.S. women's national team that has been in existence for just 3 years?
As far as women being equal to men in sports I'll paraphrase what Mia Hamm said a few years ago after the Women's Soccer tem won the World Cup.
Hamm was asked if she was interested in playing in the MLS. Her response was the reporter didn't understand the difference in men's and women's sports and athletic ability. She said her team that just won the world championship had trouble playing against U19 state championship boys soccer teams in their pre World Cup game schedule.
Now where does a state level U19 team fit in the overall ranking of teams in the world ? It's light years below the MLS. Most of the players will never be good enough to play in the MLS. The MLS is light years below European soccer.
In terms of strength, yes, men have the advantage. In terms of talent, skills, and ability, they don't.
You are saying that timing doesn't mean much. WHAT? Timing is everything when it comes to hitting a baseball. If you can't adjust to varying speeds very well, you probably won't connect with the ball much. After seeing the ball, connecting with it is the next step. Bat speed determines how much power/energy from the snap of the wrists is added to the swing. One can still connect with the ball even if they don't have a lot of bat speed but have good timing. The ball may not go as far as someone who has more bat speed, but they still can connect with the ball if their timing is on.
Mechanics will affect timing, batspeed, the quality of a hit, power, etc.
"Batspeed is the number one factor, after squaring the ball up of course." Interesting that you say that after saying timing doesn't help much. What do you think "squaring the ball up" is?
There are many factors that influence the power/velocity of a hit and connecting with the ball... not just one or two. First, as I already mentioned, you have to see the ball. Then, you have to be able to react to its velocity at the right moment (timing), then you have to be able to connect with it (timing and mechanics). You may have really good timing and really good bat speed, but if your mechanics are really bad, you probably won't do well. You can have really good mechanics and really good bat speed, but if your timing is way off, you probably won't connect with the ball. You can have really good timing and mechanics and slower bat speed, but you can still connect with the ball and have a good swing, but the ball may not go as far with less bat speed. So, in essence, bat speed is not what determines whether one is able to hit a 90+ mph pitch. It certanily influences it, but it doesn't determine it all by itself, and bat speed isn't determined from strength.
Other factors are just as important. For example, if one holds the bat tightly rather than loosely, it will affect not only the mechanics of one's swing but will also affect one's bat speed. This has nothing to do with strength.
Having quick wrists, however, doesn't equate to being really strong. Learning to use the proper mechanics... having loose, quick wrists and letting your them fly and "throwing" your hands at the ball properly when swinging rather than having tight, inhibiting wrists that don't snap... has way more to do with bat speed than anything does.
As far as velocity of a pitch is concerned, it does influence how far a ball will go... more than you think. Of course, it's not the only determining factor. All the other things I mentioned above also influence that. It's a case of pure physics. If more energy is coming at you when you hit the ball, the ball will jump off the bat with more energy. It's not too hard to figure out.
As far as the MLB home run derby goes, the balls are obviously juiced. If you can't see that, then you are blind. If a guy can hit a home run much farther during the home run derby when the velocity of the pitches is 55-60, why can't he do the same during games? That actually goes against your argument rather than being in favor of it. If bat speed is the number one factor and none of the rest matters that much, then MLB players should be able to hit regular-game home runs the same distance that they hit home-run-derby home runs.
Newton's laws of motion...
Newton's laws of motion are three physical laws which provide relationships between the forces acting on a body and the motion of the body. They were first compiled by Sir Isaac Newton in his work Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica (1687). The laws form the basis for classical mechanics and Newton himself used them to explain many results concerning the motion of physical objects. In the third volume of the text, he showed that these laws of motion, combined with his law of universal gravitation, explained Kepler's laws of planetary motion.
Briefly stated, the three laws are:
An object will remain at rest, or continue to move at a constant velocity, unless a resultant force acts on it.
The rate of change of momentum of an object is directly proportional to the resultant force acting on it.
For every force acting on an object, the object will exert an equal, yet opposite, force on its cause.
The net force on an object is the vector sum of all the forces acting on the object. Newton's first law says that if this sum is zero, the state of motion of the object does not change. Essentially, it makes the following two points:
An object that is not moving will not move until a net force acts upon it.
An object that is in motion will not change its velocity (accelerate) until a net force acts upon it.
This insight leads to Newton's First Law—no force means no acceleration, and hence the body will maintain its velocity.
Common sense tells us that if an object is traveling at a higher velocity than another object and both objects are hit with the same amount of force and speed and under the same conditions (bat speed, how the ball is hit... on the bat and the ball, humidity, etc.), that the ball traveling at the higher initial velocity is going to accelerate at a higher rate than the object traveling at a lower initial velocity.
If that same person stands in the cage until they are able to connect with the ball going 80 mph, what are they doing? They are learning to TIME the moment of impact. Are they going to increase their bat speed while doing that? Maybe and maybe not, but increasing their bat speed is not crucial to whether they learn to and are able to connect with the ball or not. If their bat speed is slower, then they will have to start their swing sooner in order to connect with it compared to someone who has higher bat speed.
Also, did that same person have to increase their strength in order to learn to and be able to impact the ball with the bat? No.
Women could learn to hit a 90+ fastball if they worked on it and trained to do so, since it's not a strength issue.
More and more women who are sprouting up to play baseball can throw in the 70's. Finding those women is becoming more common. The elite of women pitchers, at the present moment, can throw in the 80's. I just played with a woman at the Women's National Championship who easily throws in the 70's, there's one on my current team who can, I've had 3 others on my team in the past who can, and I've seen several others do it. It's not so uncommon. As I said, finding the ones who can do it and who have the talent and skills to play baseball is becoming more common. The more women's baseball develops, the more those women will be found. A 14 year-old girl on one of the teams at the Women's National Championship is said to throw in the 80's.
Nothing is impossible.
Last edited by NotAboutEgo; 10-31-2007 at 03:40 PM.
Last edited by FindAGap12; 11-01-2007 at 11:41 AM.
OK, you googled newton's law and cut and pasted it. The farthest HR in MLB this year was 476 feet, by Chris Young The farthest home run in the 2007 Home Run Derby was 504 feet, by Vladimir Guerrero. Can you explain how Guerrero is able to hit the ball 504 feet against a pitch traveling approximatley 60 MPH, yet no one can take a 90+ fastball that far during the 10.000 plus pitches thrown in MLB this year? What do you think it's a linear relationship? That a 300 fot fly ball against a 60 MPH pitch could be a 450 bomb against 90?
I am all for female athletics. I also believe that woman should play Baseball over fastpitch. But you insulting the level of play in professional baseball. If Ila Borders was a male, she would have been laughed at by going to a pro tryout with a 78 MPH fastball. Every HS in America has at least 3 of those. There are thousands of players who are 85+ who are not good enough to play at that level.
Again, you don't need strength to time a ball. Power is NOT critical to being able to see a ball and focus on it and then time the moment of impact to put the bat on the ball.
If you think power is what is critical to being able to time a pitch, how do you explain bunting... because in bunting, you don't swing the bat at all and the bat barely moves, so how does power/strength factor into that? It's a matter of eye/brain/hand coordination and focus of the mind and believing in yourself to learn to do so. Power has absolutely NOTHING to do with making contact with a ball.
Again, one can learn to time pitches. If women had a reason to train to be able to hit a 90+ mph pitch, then they'd do it. Since there's no reason to do it now, other than to prove that we can do it or if something decides to throw some loot at us, why should we waste our time?
At that same facility, there was a curve ball cage. Those of us on the women's team at the time starting practicing in that cage, since we face curve balls in games. Some of us didn't do so hot at first, but we learned how to hit them.
I suppose you don't believe women can hit curve balls, either.
You shouldn't speculate on something you don't know about.
As I already stated, if deeper home runs can be hit during the homerun derby than can be hit during the regular MLB season, it says that something has changed to make that possible. Do guys hit record-shattering homers during BP? Rarely, if at all. I've seen enough of BP to know that. So, what do you think changes during the homerun derby to allow such deep homeruns? Juiced balls... maybe? Why do you think they have a homerun derby? It's all marketing so MLB can make even more money... and what sells the most? Homeruns. What you have said about the distances of such homeruns tells it all.
Also, I've never used specifics about exactly how much further a ball would travel if being hit off a 90+ mph pitch compared to a 60 mph pitch, because I don't know the answer, and other factors such as temperature, humidity, wind, etc influence that. Common sense tells anyone that it would be hit farther, though.
I'm not insulting pro ball. First of all, many of us who post here are talking about amateur baseball most of the time, yet people like you constantly have to jump to pro ball... constantly comparing women to MLB. Do you even read all of the posts?
Also, unless you've seen a number of women play baseball several times, don't judge anything about it.
About the 14 year-old girl who is said to throw 80, it is specualtion for me, only because I haven't actually witnessed it with my own eyes. But, I won't say it's ridiculous and impossible, because it's not.
Last edited by NotAboutEgo; 11-01-2007 at 12:22 PM.
There's a difference between "making contact" and being an effective hitter. An effective hitter will make hard contact on a consistent basis, not just make contact. It is a general rule of thumb that your batspeed must match the speed of the pitch to handle the Pitcher.