Wmlb?

[NotAboutEgo]

I see the ball marks on my black woodie plenty good already!
I thought the tape was too prevent the bat from cracking?

It does take more hand and arm strength to get a woodie going. I know that for sure.

They say to put tape on it so you can see how many times you hit off the sweet spot, and also, it helps you to focus on hitting the ball off that area of the bat. So, you learn to use eye/hand coordination more effectively, and your timing improves. You learn to hit with your eyes since you are focusing on hitting the ball off the bat where the tape is. It forces you to watch the ball come off the bat instead of swinging "blindly".

I used to swing "blindly" (as I call it), because when I'd swing, I didn't look at the ball. I saw the ball come out of the pitcher's hand/out of the machine, but I didn't follow the ball all the way in with my eyes. I'd simply swing and connect with the ball and hit it successfully, but I didn't see the bat make contact with the ball.

Then, one time while I was taking BP, I heard that voice in my mind ask, "How can you hit the ball? You aren't even watching it all the way in. You are swinging but are not looking where you are swinging." That's when I started focusing on watching the ball all the way in and learned to hit "with my eyes". It's something that sort of started happening naturally. I improved as a hitter when I started doing that. Now, I know where the ball is going before it even gets near the plate.

[digglahhh]

I find it easier to hit baseballs than softballs... Also experienced the same phenomena with metal vs wood... I find it easier to hit with wood than metal? Anyone want to explain why that is the case?

Not a case of easier, per se, but by hiting with metal you increase the likelihood of developing bad habits, or at least in inaccurate sense of your own success versus skill. You can miss the sweet spot with metal and still drive the ball a good ways.

When you're young, playing on a non-regulation field and hitting with metal against a pitcher with some velocity, popping the ball over the fence is not necessarily a good indication of hitting the ball really well. It's disillusioning to the young hitter though. In terms of habits and mechanics, I'm thankful, in retrospect, that I was a smallish kid who wasn't blessed with tons of power. While I bemoaned it when I was really young, the good habits I developed by not being tempted to swing for the fences paid dividends, while many of the kids who used physical strength and state-of-the-art bats to compensate for their mechanical shortcomings were exposed as naked emperors as the level of competition improved.

[NotAboutEgo]

Not a case of easier, per se, but by hiting with metal you increase the likelihood of developing bad habits, or at least in inaccurate sense of your own success versus skill. You can miss the sweet spot with metal and still drive the ball a good ways.

When you're young, playing on a non-regulation field and hitting with metal against a pitcher with some velocity, popping the ball over the fence is not necessarily a good indication of hitting the ball really well. It's disillusioning to the young hitter though. In terms of habits and mechanics, I'm thankful, in retrospect, that I was a smallish kid who wasn't blessed with tons of power. While I bemoaned it when I was really young, the good habits I developed by not being tempted to swing for the fences paid dividends, while many of the kids who used physical strength and state-of-the-art bats to compensate for their mechanical shortcomings were exposed as naked emperors as the level of competition improved.

I agree 100%.

[Imgran]

"Little League, Inc. is now considering creating a separate girls' baseball division (stemming from a huge amount of pressure from women's baseball advocates and organizers) to help the growth of girls' baseball. Once this happens, it's going to be a snowball effect. Girls' leagues will grow, and then girls' high school baseball and women's college baseball will be born."

This is already creating discussions about whether or not girls belong on boy's LL baseball teams. I think LL Inc. my have to adjust league boundaries since 200 to 400 girls may not all join baseball teams at once and forget about softball. My local LL would likely field 2 or 3 girls baseball teams per age level and they would play against the nearest LL's.

Whenever you upset the apple cart remember that the attacks are not directed at you personally but on the position you have taken.

Isn't a separate league a step backwards in a way? Separation can equal segregation. It's a decent temporary solution but it can be used to divert the drive for real reform of the real problems. I know there's still a lot of people who don't take the WNBA seriously and it's the best known professional women's league. It doesn't seem to me that a "just for women" league is the right answer to male-only major leagues. It smells like sideways progress to me.

Wouldn't a better way to go be to try talking the Indy leagues into hiring talented women ballplayers? I know MLB scouts the Indy leagues. No one from a major league scouts professional women's sports. They consider it a waste of time (rightly or wrongly). But half of the Indy leagues would do anything for money and to draw fans, and if they thought that women could play well enough to survive in the league surely some of them would be tempted. Someone will eventually bite.

[TonyK]

Isn't a separate league a step backwards in a way? Separation can equal segregation. It's a decent temporary solution but it can be used to divert the drive for real reform of the real problems. I know there's still a lot of people who don't take the WNBA seriously and it's the best known professional women's league. It doesn't seem to me that a "just for women" league is the right answer to male-only major leagues. It smells like sideways progress to me.

Wouldn't a better way to go be to try talking the Indy leagues into hiring talented women ballplayers? I know MLB scouts the Indy leagues. No one from a major league scouts professional women's sports. They consider it a waste of time (rightly or wrongly). But half of the Indy leagues would do anything for money and to draw fans, and if they thought that women could play well enough to survive in the league surely some of them would be tempted. Someone will eventually bite.

You have to find the best way to fill the pipeline if you want WMLB to succeed over the long term. Right now 98% to 99% of the most talented younger girls begin playing both baseball and softball. They switch to softball once middle school arrives.

These girls don't recruit other girls to play on their LL teams. I doubt if many even consider trying out for their middle school baseball team made up of all boys.

Little League has to realize that 200 girls are not going to sign up to play baseball since softball season conflicts with it. But maybe 10 to 20 girls will want to do it once they know the team will be all girls. So those girls can form a team and play against another town's girls. The next step would be for a group of girls and their families to ask their school board for permission to organize a club baseball team.

It can happen if enough girls want to make it happen. I read about the girls high school, travel, and college ice hockey team's seasons every night in my local newspaper. Twenty years ago I doubt if many people would have predicted that Little Janie with the cute pigtails would someday earn a full ride to play ice hockey at a Division 1 school.

[TG Coach]

I know there's still a lot of people who don't take the WNBA seriously and it's the best known professional women's league.

It's because they couldn't beat a good high school boys team. That's the disparity between men's and women's sports.

Wouldn't a better way to go be to try talking the Indy leagues into hiring talented women ballplayers? I know MLB scouts the Indy leagues. No one from a major league scouts professional women's sports. They consider it a waste of time (rightly or wrongly).

Rightly

[Imgran]

You have to find the best way to fill the pipeline if you want WMLB to succeed over the long term. Right now 98% to 99% of the most talented younger girls begin playing both baseball and softball. They switch to softball once middle school arrives.

These girls don't recruit other girls to play on their LL teams. I doubt if many even consider trying out for their middle school baseball team made up of all boys.

Little League has to realize that 200 girls are not going to sign up to play baseball since softball season conflicts with it. But maybe 10 to 20 girls will want to do it once they know the team will be all girls. So those girls can form a team and play against another town's girls. The next step would be for a group of girls and their families to ask their school board for permission to organize a club baseball team.

It can happen if enough girls want to make it happen. I read about the girls high school, travel, and college ice hockey team's seasons every night in my local newspaper. Twenty years ago I doubt if many people would have predicted that Little Janie with the cute pigtails would someday earn a full ride to play ice hockey at a Division 1 school.

I don't want WMLB to succeed. It's just another form of segregation. I want any woman with enough talent to perform at the major league level to have the privellege to do so. Let's draw talented female baseball players right out into the same field as the men. Surely there's at least a handful who can handle it, especially in a sport like baseball where you can survive by being quick and smart even if you're not all that strong.

The best way to crack into that would be for talented female atheletes to tear up the independent leagues before the disbelieving eyes of the scouts that keep tabs on them looking for major league longshots and UDFA's. Sooner or later one would come along with a level of talent that not even the most hidebound scout could ignore.

[captlid]

How do you propose said girls develop their talents? Considering most would refuse to be the only girl on a guy's team.

So far the highest level a few girls have gotten to is div 3 relief pitcher. And one lady who got her butt handed to her in the Indies..

[Macker]

Surely there's at least a handful who can handle it, especially in a sport like baseball where you can survive by being quick and smart even if you're not all that strong.

This is the problem talented women have. I have no doubt there are a lot of women who are not all that strong, but they are quick and smart. However, there are also a lot of men who are not all that strong who are quick and smart. Those men can't make it either, because there are simply too many talented players who are quick, smart and strong.

[Imgran]

This is the problem talented women have. I have no doubt there are a lot of women who are not all that strong, but they are quick and smart. However, there are also a lot of men who are not all that strong who are quick and smart. Those men can't make it either, because there are simply too many talented players who are quick, smart and strong.

Just because men tend to be stronger on average doesn't mean there aren't plenty of women who could be at least strong enough to be a Chone Figgins or Jacoby Ellsbury type -- and power is often as much about bat speed as it is about hugely proportioned muscles. I have my doubts that NO woman could survive at the MLB level.

As for developing talent -- I'm holding up an ideal. Not a logistically feasible goal. However I went to a high school that had 8 men on their baseball team. I rather suspect that given the option of bringing in a few talented girls who were decent softball players the coach would have gone for it. There's a number of small, marginal high schools that could start creating a precedent, especially in rural areas. The real "problem" is the rival charm of softball, not the lack of available roster spots, somewhere, on some baseball team, for talented girls.

[captlid]

I wanted to know if you had some suggestions on player development for us gals...

[NotAboutEgo]

Just because men tend to be stronger on average doesn't mean there aren't plenty of women who could be at least strong enough to be a Chone Figgins or Jacoby Ellsbury type -- and power is often as much about bat speed as it is about hugely proportioned muscles. I have my doubts that NO woman could survive at the MLB level.

As for developing talent -- I'm holding up an ideal. Not a logistically feasible goal. However I went to a high school that had 8 men on their baseball team. I rather suspect that given the option of bringing in a few talented girls who were decent softball players the coach would have gone for it. There's a number of small, marginal high schools that could start creating a precedent, especially in rural areas. The real "problem" is the rival charm of softball, not the lack of available roster spots, somewhere, on some baseball team, for talented girls.

There are actually thousands of girls around the U.S. who are playing baseball on their high school teams, and the numbers are growing. Many of these girls are getting the opportunity to play because of organizations like the Women's Sports Foundation that is legally fighting the battle of schools denying girls the opportunities to just try out for their school baseball teams.

It would be very easy for females to develop in baseball if we were given the same opportunities and development as guys have. That's a no brainer. The problem is that, since organized baseball began, society has been fighting girls and women who want to play baseball and other sports. The problem in baseball stems from 1830 and still continues today. Women being denied the same opportunities to play other sports stems as far back as the ancient Olympics, and probably even before that.

So, it has always been easy for boys and men (in the U.S., it's always been easy for white Christian boys and men) to participate in sports without being harassed and denied opportunities. However, others, including girls and women, have had to fight since the beginning of time.

I agree with what you are saying, but before any women would be ready to participate in the minors and MLB, a lot more development needs to happen. We need to have the OPEN (meaning, without any form of harassment, without being denied opportunities, etc.) opportunities to play youth baseball, high school baseball, collegiate baseball, Olympic baseball for that to be possible... that, along with MLB rescinding its ban on women playing in its league.

Unfortunately, the gender bias of the past still exists today, especially when it comes to baseball. Stagmnant ideas, attitudes, prejudices, etc. die hard for the most part, and the effects of those last for a long time.

[NotAboutEgo]

I don't want WMLB to succeed. It's just another form of segregation. I want any woman with enough talent to perform at the major league level to have the privellege to do so. Let's draw talented female baseball players right out into the same field as the men. Surely there's at least a handful who can handle it, especially in a sport like baseball where you can survive by being quick and smart even if you're not all that strong.

The best way to crack into that would be for talented female atheletes to tear up the independent leagues before the disbelieving eyes of the scouts that keep tabs on them looking for major league longshots and UDFA's. Sooner or later one would come along with a level of talent that not even the most hidebound scout could ignore.

It's interesting the see how some people think that separate gender leagues and teams is a form of discrimination... when it has to do with women-only and girls-only leagues... but, when men and boys have their own teams and leagues, it's hard for some people to see it as discrimination and segregation.

While I agree that MLB should open its doors to women, at least until there's a women's pro baseball league, I disagree with you that a WMLB would be another form of segregation. Even if MLB opened its doors to women (and that's a HUGE if), it would take quite a while for any woman to train and develop, given the same opportunities that all other MLB players have had, to play at that level. Also, by not having a WMLB, it would be denying a lot more women the opportunity to play pro baseball.

And, most women would prefer playing pro baseball with other women, so are you going to be the one to tell us we can't have a WMLB or something similar, because it would be another form of segregation?

[NotAboutEgo]

Separation is segregation ONLY when certain people, who should be given an opportunity to participate, are denied the opportunity to participate, based on superficial, judgmental means... such as color, spirituality, gender, accent, hair color, the way they dress, the way they talk, etc.

Since there is a size and strength difference, on average, between males and females once they reach a certain age, gender separation of sports at the highest levels, such as in pro sports, makes sense... when size and strength are important factors in a sport... such as in football, hockey, basketball, etc. However, gender separation of sports at levels below pro sports and when size and strength are not much of a factor doesn't make sense. There's no reason for it. Whoever can compete should be able to compete... if making the team is based on tryouts. But, when teams and leagues are rec teams and leagues or aren't based on tryouts, anyone should be able to participate. It's then up to each individual team to find the best talent they can find, if that's what their goal is.

As far as youth baseball goes, I know that most girls prefer to play baseball with other girls. When kids are young, they prefer to socialize and participate in activities with their same gender... and they shouldn't be denied those opportunities. That's part of growing, learning, and experiencing life.

A WMLB would not be denying ANYONE the opportunity to play pro baseball. Men already have their own leagues, so why would it be seen as segregation if women had their own pro leagues? Who would a WMLB be denying?

[NotAboutEgo]

Dictionary.com's definitions of separation and of segregation... different definitions...

Separation
sep·a·ra·tion /ˌsɛpəˈreɪʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sep-uh-rey-shuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. an act or instance of separating or the state of being separated.
2. a place, line, or point of parting.
3. a gap, hole, rent, or the like.
4. something that separates or divides.
5. Law. a. cessation of conjugal cohabitation, as by mutual consent.
b. judicial separation.

6. Aerospace. the time or act of releasing a burned-out stage of a rocket or missile from the remainder.
7. Photography. separation negative.

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[Origin: 1375–1425; late ME < L séparātiōn- (s. of séparātiō), equiv. to séparāt(us) separate + -iōn- -ion]



Segregation
seg·re·ga·tion /ˌsɛgrɪˈgeɪʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[seg-ri-gey-shuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. the act or practice of segregating.
2. the state or condition of being segregated: the segregation of private clubs.
3. something segregated.
4. Genetics. the separation of allelic genes into different gametes during meiosis.

Compare law of segregation.

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[Origin: 1545–55; < LL ségregātiōn- (s. of ségregātiō), equiv. to ségregāt(us) (see segregate) + -iōn- -ion]

—Related forms
seg·re·ga·tion·al, adjective
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This seg·re·ga·tion (sěg'rĭ-gā'shən) Pronunciation Key
n.
The act or process of segregating or the condition of being segregated.
The policy or practice of separating people of different races, classes, or ethnic groups, as in schools, housing, and public or commercial facilities, especially as a form of discrimination.

Genetics The separation of paired alleles or homologous chromosomes, especially during meiosis, so that the members of each pair appear in different gametes.

segregation

noun
1. (genetics) the separation of paired alleles during meiosis so that members of each pair of alleles appear in different gametes
2. a social system that provides separate facilities for minority groups
3. the act of segregating or sequestering; "sequestration of the jury" [ant: desegregation]

WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.

__________________________________________________ ________________________

Segregation is wrong when it's used as discrimination.

[TonyK]

The average Japanese male is only 1 to 4 inches taller than the average US female. Japanese ballplayers do succeed in MLB despite size disadvantages.

I would prefer to watch a WMLB game over a women's pro softball game. But I have never watched two good women's baseball teams play one another. I'm like most baseball fans who saw the movie starring Geena Davis about the All American Baseball League. That is all I have to go by.

Would women and girls support a WMLB league?

If those ballplayers could endure scrapes and bruises from having to play in short skirts, then I'm sure today's women ballplayers could handle a 162 game season.

[NotAboutEgo]

The average Japanese male is only 1 to 4 inches taller than the average US female. Japanese ballplayers do succeed in MLB despite size disadvantages.

I would prefer to watch a WMLB game over a women's pro softball game. But I have never watched two good women's baseball teams play one another. I'm like most baseball fans who saw the movie starring Geena Davis about the All American Baseball League. That is all I have to go by.

Would women and girls support a WMLB league?

If those ballplayers could endure scrapes and bruises from having to play in short skirts, then I'm sure today's women ballplayers could handle a 162 game season.

Good comments, Tony. Of course, any movie is not going to be 100% accurate... and it is a movie. I've met and talked with close to 100 of the women who played in the AAGPBL. I played for one of them in a women's baseball tournament in Denver in 2003. They said that a lot of "A League of Their Own" is inaccurate and made up... as is the case with a lot of movies based on true facts.

The women who played in the AAGPBL are just as passionate and tough as anyone else out there. They're very fiesty and have great stories to tell. Many of them have leg and hip problems today because of having to wear skirts while playing baseball. They said most of the time they had bruises, cuts, scrapes, and all kinds of wounds and battle scars from it. They had to get up early in the morning to play and either played 2 games in one day or played and practiced in the same day (can't remember exactly), and therefore, they were out on the field late at night and then had to get up early the next day. Whatever the details are, they said they had a busy, tough schedule... far busier and tougher than the typical MLB schedule. It wasn't a walk through the park.

I know women and girls would support a WMLB. It also takes marketing to support anything... as in TV promotion, magazine and newspaper promotion, merchandise promotion, Internet promotion, etc. Before TV, the average attendance at MLB games was around 5,000 a game... which is what minor league games now draw. Now, the average MLB attendance is probably in the 20,000s per game with some teams averaging in the 30,000s and 40,000s when they are doing well. A while back, I paralleled the rise in attendance at MLB games to the rise in the amount of TVs in American homes. It is obvious to see that the rise in the number of TVs in homes has contributed hugely to the rise in popularity of MLB games... as is the case with most anything. The more something is exposed, the more popular it will become. How did Texas Hold 'Em become popular? Fox Sports and other channels started broadcasting poker competitions.

[captlid]

I think its a big mistake to depend on girls and women to support a league. Just look at the NPF. Guys are still the biggest consumers of sports. Maybe that will change when humankind evolves but I am not holding my breath for it to happen.

[NotAboutEgo]

I think its a big mistake to depend on girls and women to support a league. Just look at the NPF. Guys are still the biggest consumers of sports. Maybe that will change when humankind evolves but I am not holding my breath for it to happen.

I don't know if Tony was actually stating that a WMLB would rely on only girls and women to support it. He asked if girls and women would support it. I took it to mean "would enough girls and women be interested in supporting a women's pro league" but not necessarily meaning solely relying on girls and women to support it. That would be like depending on boys and guys solely to support MLB or any other pro sport. That would take away a huge part of the fan base and would hurt MLB. I heard an MLB coach recently say that women make up 40-some percent of MLB fans. There are a lot of female fans for other pro sports as well.

The biggest reason why men make up the majority of sports fans, if they are even that much of a majority anymore, is because of the effects of the attitudes of our society that have been in existence for so long. Women were still told, up until maybe the 1980's, that sports are not for them, and that women are to be feminine and weak in character. Women in the 1960's had to fight to play any sports. The majority of women who wanted to play sports before the 1980's were denied the opportunity to do so. Collegiate athletic scholarships weren't available for women until the last 20 years or so. Even in the 1970's, sports opportunities for women were limited, and it still wasn't completely accepted by society for women to be sports fans.

During the time when it wasn't socially acceptable for women to play sports, the rebels who didn't listen and participated anyway were bashed and labeled as lesbians. That stigma still exists today... maybe to a lesser degree... but it still exists. When I played ice hockey in the early to mid 1990's when I was in college, me and my teammates were labeled as lesbians... and guys were the ones who were labeling us as such... like they were jealous and couldn't handle the fact that we, as women, were playing ice hockey.

Now, more girls than ever participate in sports in school and non-school programs. It has become more accepted for girls and women to be sports fans and for girls and women to participate in sports. Things are changing, but things still are far from being equal.

I agree. People as a whole need to evolve so that girls and women and others aren't denied opportunities to play baseball or to do whatever else it is that they enjoy doing.

[NotAboutEgo]

I think its a big mistake to depend on girls and women to support a league. Just look at the NPF. Guys are still the biggest consumers of sports. Maybe that will change when humankind evolves but I am not holding my breath for it to happen.

I don't know if Tony was actually stating that a WMLB would rely only on girls and women to support it. He asked if girls and women would support it. I took it to mean "would enough girls and women be interested in supporting a women's pro league" but not necessarily meaning solely relying on girls and women to support it. That would be like depending on boys and guys solely to support MLB or any other pro sport. That would take away a huge part of the fan base and would hurt MLB. I heard an MLB coach recently say that women make up 40-some percent of MLB fans. There are a lot of female fans for other pro sports as well.

The biggest reason why men make up the majority of sports fans, if they are even that much of a majority anymore, is because of the effects of the attitudes of our society that have been in existence for so long. Women were still told, up until maybe the 1980's, that sports are not for them, and that women are to be feminine and weak in character. Women in the 1960's had to fight to play any sports. The majority of women who wanted to play sports before the 1980's were denied the opportunity to do so. Collegiate athletic scholarships weren't available for women until the last 20 years or so. Even in the 1970's, sports opportunities for women were limited, and it still wasn't completely accepted by society for women to be sports fans.

During the time when it wasn't socially acceptable for women to play sports, the rebels who didn't listen and participated anyway were bashed and labeled as lesbians. That stigma still exists today... maybe to a lesser degree... but it still exists. When I played ice hockey in the early to mid 1990's when I was in college, me and my teammates were labeled as lesbians... and guys were the ones who were labeling us as such... like they were jealous and couldn't handle the fact that we, as women, were playing ice hockey.

Now, more girls than ever participate in sports in school and non-school programs. It has become more accepted for girls and women to be sports fans and for girls and women to participate in sports. Things are changing, but things still are far from being equal.

I agree. People as a whole need to evolve so that girls and women and others aren't denied opportunities to play baseball or to do whatever else it is that they enjoy doing.

[TG Coach]

The biggest reason why men make up the majority of sports fans, if they are even that much of a majority anymore, is because of the effects of the attitudes of our society that have been in existence for so long. Women were still told, up until maybe the 1980's, that sports are not for them, and that women are to be feminine and weak in character.

What a bunch of hogwash. You need to check the stats. You make it look like a lot of women aren't sports fans. It's closer to 50/50 than you think. The problem with women's pro sports is how much poorer the level of play is compared to men's teams. I went to our high school girl's basketball game last night. They're in first place. It was hard to watch. My son's middle school team from last year would have beaten them. Why? The 8th grade boys are bigger, faster and stronger which lends itself to better skills.

For an WMLB to have any chance of success they would need to acquiree the largest market base the WNBA has, which is lesbians. At lot of WNBA marketing in done to the gay market. However, if the NBA pulled it's subsidy the WNBA would crash and burn tomorrow.

The "women were taught sports aren't feminine" is a bunch of bull. For the past fifteen years the youth girls sports market has exploded. My daughter is a college softball player. You couldn't drag her to a NPF game (I have access to free tickets). But she'll go to MLB games. You couldn't drag her to a WNBA game. But she'll go to NBA games. And she loves pro football. Why is this? She wants to see the best compete. She'll watch the best college teams play softball because that's her game. But there's no interest in watching pros play.

[NotAboutEgo]

What a bunch of hogwash. You need to check the stats. You make it look like a lot of women aren't sports fans. It's closer to 50/50 than you think. The problem with women's pro sports is how much poorer the level of play is compared to men's teams. I went to our high school girl's basketball game last night. They're in first place. It was hard to watch. My son's middle school team from last year would have beaten them. Why? The 8th grade boys are bigger, faster and stronger which lends itself to better skills.

For an WMLB to have any chance of success they would need to acquiree the largest market base the WNBA has, which is lesbians. At lot of WNBA marketing in done to the gay market. However, if the NBA pulled it's subsidy the WNBA would crash and burn tomorrow.

The "women were taught sports aren't feminine" is a bunch of bull. For the past fifteen years the youth girls sports market has exploded. My daughter is a college softball player. You couldn't drag her to a NPF game (I have access to free tickets). But she'll go to MLB games. You couldn't drag her to a WNBA game. But she'll go to NBA games. And she loves pro football. Why is this? She wants to see the best compete. She'll watch the best college teams play softball because that's her game. But there's no interest in watching pros play.

Did I say that a lot of women aren't sports fans? Did you even read what I wrote... or much less, comprehend what I wrote? Apparently not. I said, if men still are the majority of sports fans... of which I don't know the percentages, because I haven't checked... it's because of our society's view of women throughout history. I didn't mention any numbers at all except for the fact that I heard from an MLB coach that women make up 40% of MLB fans. I then said things have changed, but things aren't equal... meaning sports opportunities for girls and women still aren't equal... also meaning that there were less female sports fans in the past, and that was due to the attitudes of our society which influenced the roles of women.

Furthermore, I never mentioned anything about women's sports compared to men's sports or anything like that. I was talking about women being sports fans and how the limited sports opportunities that women and girls have had throughout history has greatly affected the numbers of female sports fans during that time. In my original post, I said there are a lot more girls and women participating in school and non-school and collegiate sports now compared to before, and that influences the increase in female sports fans.

Your comment about a WMLB having to market to lesbians to be successful is crap. If it was marketed right, it would attract fans from all walks of life. Your point of view comes from pure prejudice and stereotypes.

Girls and women were NOT allowed to participate in many sports before the 1980's and didn't have that many sports programs available to them back then. Go check some data on that, because you are sure to find it. Again, I talked about that in my original post... the 1980's were 20 years ago... give or take a year or two... depending on what year you're talking about. Girls and women in the 1960's and before virutally have no sports opportunities and were DISCOURAGED from being athletic and playing sports. Again, do some research. This even lasted into the 1970's.

That's fine if your daughter prefers those sports over women's pro sports. That's her choice, but not every person on this planet is exactly like your daughter. Many people enjoy sports of all kinds from many differene avenues.

You should learn to comprehend what you read.

[Knick9]

What a bunch of hogwash. You need to check the stats. You make it look like a lot of women aren't sports fans. It's closer to 50/50 than you think. The problem with women's pro sports is how much poorer the level of play is compared to men's teams. I went to our high school girl's basketball game last night. They're in first place. It was hard to watch. My son's middle school team from last year would have beaten them. Why? The 8th grade boys are bigger, faster and stronger which lends itself to better skills.

For an WMLB to have any chance of success they would need to acquiree the largest market base the WNBA has, which is lesbians. At lot of WNBA marketing in done to the gay market. However, if the NBA pulled it's subsidy the WNBA would crash and burn tomorrow.

The "women were taught sports aren't feminine" is a bunch of bull. For the past fifteen years the youth girls sports market has exploded. My daughter is a college softball player. You couldn't drag her to a NPF game (I have access to free tickets). But she'll go to MLB games. You couldn't drag her to a WNBA game. But she'll go to NBA games. And she loves pro football. Why is this? She wants to see the best compete. She'll watch the best college teams play softball because that's her game. But there's no interest in watching pros play.

This post is absolutely full of crap. Plain and simple.

[NotAboutEgo]

The 8th grade boys are bigger, faster and stronger which lends itself to better skills.

Bigger, faster, and stronger DON'T equate to better skills. Skills are another component, separate of being bigger, faster, and stronger. You are completely wrong here.

[TG Coach]

meaning sports opportunities for girls and women still aren't equal

Have you heard of Title IX?

Your comment about a WMLB having to market to lesbians to be successful is crap. If it was marketed right, it would attract fans from all walks of life. Your point of view comes from pure prejudice and stereotypes.

It's a commonly accepted fact in the sports world. I read the information in a pro sports business journal. Besides, the WNBA is not successful. It would crash to the ground tomorrow without it's NBA subsidy (another known fact).

Girls and women were NOT allowed to participate in many sports before the 1980's and didn't have that many sports programs available to them back then.

Get off your dinosaur and quit griping. It's 2007, not 1980. Hello! It's twenty-seven years later. There's Title IX. There's also been women's pro sports leagues. They've all failed without subsidies. It's called the market approach. If there was a market for pro women's baseball someone would make a buck off it. There isn't even a market for pro womens's fastpitch. That league has re-orged three times and it's failing again. They have trouble giving away tickets for our local team. I showed an investment prospectus to my accountant. He said it looked like a great way to lose 250K.

You should learn to comprehend what you read.

I understand everything you say. It's the same gripe over and over and over and over and over and over ...... It's the song that never ends.