Wmlb?

[NotAboutEgo]

Where are they mostly located in the usa and how much do they approximately charge to rent out? I know how much brooklyn cyclones charge and its expensive.

Taking notes

Accomodate for extra innings, bluezebra



NAE: Do they play in the evenings or during the day? And are the players paid money or just their expenses covered?

I don't know what time of the day they play. My friend is paid and her expenses are covered. I don't know many more details, but I can find out.

I don't see week day games being very feasible, since most people work during the day and kids are in school during the day during the school year.

I don't know how open people in areas where siestas occur would be to going to baseball games during siesta time. Siestas are usually 2-3 hours long and are used for lunch and then a period of rest. I know this, because my ex-husband is from Mexico. Not everyone in these areas take siestas, either.

The focus of a U.S. pro women's league needs to stay in the U.S. a pro women's league isn't impossible. It takes planning, money, and marketing... like anything else.

I agree with the idea of upgrading fields, whether they be high school, collegiate, or other fields. They don't have to be fancy... just functional with really good fields. I've played on some that are great fields with bleacher-type seating built into grassy hills surrounding the fields and with men's and women's bathrooms and a small concession area. There aren't locker room facilities. Central Michigan University has this type of facility, and I played in one in Denver. Even though they are pretty basic, they are very nice and are functional. If money is that much of an issue, the facilities could be basic in the beginning and could grow with demand. It's not necessary to build an expensive stadium unless the demand is there.

[NotAboutEgo]

I would think there are many small stadiums around this country where games could be played.

Or limit the expense by paying to upgrade the seating at some of the better maintained high school fields. Don't pour start up money needed for so many other things into stadiums.

I agree 100%. After Tiger Stadium is torn down, the field will remain (from what I understand, they will leave a portion of the stands and will have a baseball museum there). Women's games could be played there and at other fields that are in great shape.

[NotAboutEgo]

If I ever have any daughters, and they wanted to play ball, then I would support them all the way, I would even maybe coach her team. I only have a son so far, but you never know, it may bea daughter who plays ball, and my son prefers something else!!

Hats off to you!

[SABR Steve]

Then why did you say this?



And if they have stronger legs then why do male soccer players kick harder and farther?

It is a general statement. Obviously boys have stronger legs if they are involved in sport.

[RightEGirl]

Hi all!

What an interesting thread, imbued with great passion throughout. I think we should be grateful for such passionate discussion on such an important topic. I have been following this thread for several months, and although I don't often have enough time to post in here (or in Baseball Fever, in general), I have been thinking in great depth about how a true WMLB league could be started, and I have a few ideas. Not being a MLB insider, however, some of my ideas or assumptions may be a bit naive or unworkable, but perhaps we can use this post as a jumping off point for further discussion and/or development?

First, a little background. As has been stated in this thread already, really to make a league work, you obviously need money, and the two logical sources seem to be: 1) From some cooperative agreement with MLB and/or 2) from advertising revenue and licensing agreements generated via television coverage. Now for the purposes of my post, let's assume that MLB would consider a cooperative effort, but will pony up no actual money (I'll get to this later). So, for the sake of discussion, let's assume that we need advertising revenue derived primarily from television coverage. Okay, allow me to digress for a moment: I asked my roommate, a former college Fastpitch player, an Atlanta Braves fan, and a viewer of both NCAA Softball games and MLB games if she would watch a WMLB game if it were televised. Her answer? Not if it conflicted with a televised Fastpitch Softball game. Now that got me to thinking about avoiding competition and creating cooperation. It also led me to wonder why Arena Football is reasonably popular on TV. The answer? I think it's clear that it provides an outlet in the "off-season" of the NFL for football "junkies." It's also interesting, because it's a little different game than regular NFL ball. Okay, sorry this is long, but follow with me:
What if instead of competing for television space against MLB, we become the OFFSEASON alternative??? I know, I live in a snowy place too, but here are my ideas:
1) We develop the league in the Southern tier states where it's warm enough to play baseball in the winter...California, Arizona, Florida, etc. At least initially until the league could grow into spring/summer/fall league and hold its own (if possible). This doesn't mean that only "Southern" players could make the team, but just that you would be based in the South during the season. Another advantage to this is the wealth of talent both in baseball and in fastpitch softball players (who are converting to baseball) to draw upon in California, Arizona, and Florida. Increasingly Texas is coming to the forefront as well. Hey, it may not always be 70 or 80 degrees, but if we want this to work, we may have to play in 55 or 65 degress...or maybe less.
2) We make a cooperative agreement with MLB to use their "Spring Training" ball parks and facilites...they donate the use and upkeep for advertising. Most of the parks are nice and seat enough fans for a good start in the league, without paying for a huge venue that is disheartening to see all the empty seats.
3) We COOPERATE with (rather than compete against) MLB, by starting our season as the MLB World Series is finishing up (and get promotional commercials, appearances at ball parks etc.), and we end our season about the time of Spring Training with our own World Series that draws on Spring Training crowds. Maybe the MLB teams work out in the morning and we have a game in the afternoon or vice versa. Maybe we can even tie in to existing Cactus League or Instructional League attendance. It would be great if we could get MLB to introduce us at games, etc. Put players in attendance up on the big screen, roll a few clips, etc.
4) I could envision 6 to 8 teams for start-up, all southern cities to begin with. Small enough not to break the bank, but large enough to hold interest and develop a city or regional fan base.
5) Announcers/Commentators might be easier to come by than we'd imagine...if we sell our league as an opportunity for "rookie" broadcasters from ESPN, Fox Sports, NBC, etc. to be a proving or training ground for their up and comers.
6) As I understand it, umpires must also spend a certain amount of time in each level in the Minors to work their way up to the Bigs. Perhaps with an agreement with MLB, our WMLB (or whatever is marketable for a name) would allow them credit for AAA or AA or whatever level they think is appropriate. Naturally, as the league develops, we will have big name commentators and Major League umps, but we have to start somewhere. My grandfather used to say, "You can't steer a canoe that isn't moving." A wise man, I think. Let's see if we can get the canoe moving.
Some other ideas:
A) Have an International Series with teams from Australia. Their summer is our winter, after all, and the Aussies would be in the height of their season when we're at the height of ours (February).
B) Generate development interest by filming a new "League of their Own", Women's Baseball Renaissance film.
C) Associate (if possible) with Major League clubs and affiliates wherever possible... for example, if we used the Twins' facilities in Fort Myers, FL (site of some of the 2007 WWS games), there might be a natural tie-in.
D) Perhaps by starting a league that is in the MLB Off-season, maybe some players, assistant coaches, trainers, etc. might be interested in taking an active role in the WMLB? As community service? Good PR? Or?

Okay...now these are just some of the ideas...of course, the number one problem is payroll for players. I don't think many of us would be so greedy that we wouldn't just take enough of a salary to survive, especially to get everything started. I honestly don't know where the payroll money would come from. It has been a continuing problem in the NPF (National Pro Fastpitch League), but several teams do continue to struggle along on sponsorships, gate receipts, promotions and some website advertising. Ideally, MLB clubs/Minor teams would bankroll the equivalent of a AA salary for 6 or 8 women's teams, recouping investment off future earning, television spots, etc. It's an investment of $$$ with (I think) a decent prospect of good return...as long as we are the "off-season" alternative. I deeply believe we have the opportunity to be far more successful financially than the NPF, though, if we market ourselves in the off-season. I don't know about any of you, but I've been VERY much wanting to see ANYTHING baseball related lately! In other words, I think A LOT of baseball fans would watch WMLB during October to February. Our target audiences would be:
1) Baseball Fans of both genders
2) Softball fans and players
3) Women sports enthusiasts
4) Women in General
5) Non-Football watchers (perhaps)

Okay...I'm out of ideas for now. Thanks for your patience in reading this really long post! I look forward to your thoughtful and constructive replies and discussions.

Best to all,

Tiffany J. Brooks

[NotAboutEgo]

Hi all!

What an interesting thread, imbued with great passion throughout. I think we should be grateful for such passionate discussion on such an important topic. I have been following this thread for several months, and although I don't often have enough time to post in here (or in Baseball Fever, in general), I have been thinking in great depth about how a true WMLB league could be started, and I have a few ideas. Not being a MLB insider, however, some of my ideas or assumptions may be a bit naive or unworkable, but perhaps we can use this post as a jumping off point for further discussion and/or development?

First, a little background. As has been stated in this thread already, really to make a league work, you obviously need money, and the two logical sources seem to be: 1) From some cooperative agreement with MLB and/or 2) from advertising revenue and licensing agreements generated via television coverage. Now for the purposes of my post, let's assume that MLB would consider a cooperative effort, but will pony up no actual money (I'll get to this later). So, for the sake of discussion, let's assume that we need advertising revenue derived primarily from television coverage. Okay, allow me to digress for a moment: I asked my roommate, a former college Fastpitch player, an Atlanta Braves fan, and a viewer of both NCAA Softball games and MLB games if she would watch a WMLB game if it were televised. Her answer? Not if it conflicted with a televised Fastpitch Softball game. Now that got me to thinking about avoiding competition and creating cooperation. It also led me to wonder why Arena Football is reasonably popular on TV. The answer? I think it's clear that it provides an outlet in the "off-season" of the NFL for football "junkies." It's also interesting, because it's a little different game than regular NFL ball. Okay, sorry this is long, but follow with me:
What if instead of competing for television space against MLB, we become the OFFSEASON alternative??? I know, I live in a snowy place too, but here are my ideas:
1) We develop the league in the Southern tier states where it's warm enough to play baseball in the winter...California, Arizona, Florida, etc. At least initially until the league could grow into spring/summer/fall league and hold its own (if possible). This doesn't mean that only "Southern" players could make the team, but just that you would be based in the South during the season. Another advantage to this is the wealth of talent both in baseball and in fastpitch softball players (who are converting to baseball) to draw upon in California, Arizona, and Florida. Increasingly Texas is coming to the forefront as well. Hey, it may not always be 70 or 80 degrees, but if we want this to work, we may have to play in 55 or 65 degress...or maybe less.
2) We make a cooperative agreement with MLB to use their "Spring Training" ball parks and facilites...they donate the use and upkeep for advertising. Most of the parks are nice and seat enough fans for a good start in the league, without paying for a huge venue that is disheartening to see all the empty seats.
3) We COOPERATE with (rather than compete against) MLB, by starting our season as the MLB World Series is finishing up (and get promotional commercials, appearances at ball parks etc.), and we end our season about the time of Spring Training with our own World Series that draws on Spring Training crowds. Maybe the MLB teams work out in the morning and we have a game in the afternoon or vice versa. Maybe we can even tie in to existing Cactus League or Instructional League attendance. It would be great if we could get MLB to introduce us at games, etc. Put players in attendance up on the big screen, roll a few clips, etc.
4) I could envision 6 to 8 teams for start-up, all southern cities to begin with. Small enough not to break the bank, but large enough to hold interest and develop a city or regional fan base.
5) Announcers/Commentators might be easier to come by than we'd imagine...if we sell our league as an opportunity for "rookie" broadcasters from ESPN, Fox Sports, NBC, etc. to be a proving or training ground for their up and comers.
6) As I understand it, umpires must also spend a certain amount of time in each level in the Minors to work their way up to the Bigs. Perhaps with an agreement with MLB, our WMLB (or whatever is marketable for a name) would allow them credit for AAA or AA or whatever level they think is appropriate. Naturally, as the league develops, we will have big name commentators and Major League umps, but we have to start somewhere. My grandfather used to say, "You can't steer a canoe that isn't moving." A wise man, I think. Let's see if we can get the canoe moving.
Some other ideas:
A) Have an International Series with teams from Australia. Their summer is our winter, after all, and the Aussies would be in the height of their season when we're at the height of ours (February).
B) Generate development interest by filming a new "League of their Own", Women's Baseball Renaissance film.
C) Associate (if possible) with Major League clubs and affiliates wherever possible... for example, if we used the Twins' facilities in Fort Myers, FL (site of some of the 2007 WWS games), there might be a natural tie-in.
D) Perhaps by starting a league that is in the MLB Off-season, maybe some players, assistant coaches, trainers, etc. might be interested in taking an active role in the WMLB? As community service? Good PR? Or?

Okay...now these are just some of the ideas...of course, the number one problem is payroll for players. I don't think many of us would be so greedy that we wouldn't just take enough of a salary to survive, especially to get everything started. I honestly don't know where the payroll money would come from. It has been a continuing problem in the NPF (National Pro Fastpitch League), but several teams do continue to struggle along on sponsorships, gate receipts, promotions and some website advertising. Ideally, MLB clubs/Minor teams would bankroll the equivalent of a AA salary for 6 or 8 women's teams, recouping investment off future earning, television spots, etc. It's an investment of $$$ with (I think) a decent prospect of good return...as long as we are the "off-season" alternative. I deeply believe we have the opportunity to be far more successful financially than the NPF, though, if we market ourselves in the off-season. I don't know about any of you, but I've been VERY much wanting to see ANYTHING baseball related lately! In other words, I think A LOT of baseball fans would watch WMLB during October to February. Our target audiences would be:
1) Baseball Fans of both genders
2) Softball fans and players
3) Women sports enthusiasts
4) Women in General
5) Non-Football watchers (perhaps)

Okay...I'm out of ideas for now. Thanks for your patience in reading this really long post! I look forward to your thoughtful and constructive replies and discussions.

Best to all,

Tiffany J. Brooks

Hey Tiff,

I like a lot of your ideas. The one thing I see as a potential snaffoo is not losing one's job while playing baseball in the South. Love the idea of this, but those of us who have good jobs would need to be able to return to those jobs or would have to make enough playing ball and doing whatever other job(s) in the off season.

[NotAboutEgo]

History tells us that women baseball players/women's baseball can draw a good number of fans. Umpteen women made a living playing pro baseball in the past (not just in the AAGPBL, either), even putting themselves through college, so why have we gone so far back in time? It's time to change the tides.


From Baseball Historian... http://www.baseballhistorian.com/wom...l.cfm?hero=892

Alta Weiss

She routinely drew upwards of 3,000 people to watch her pitch... born in Ragersville, Ohio

A daughter of a doctor, Alta Weiss was one of the biggest box-office draws in the Midwest during the early 1900s. The talk-of-the-nation, she made her professional debut in a men's semi-pro league at age 16 in 1907 and drew 1,200 fans for the Vermilion Independents of the State of Ohio. And, yielded just four hits and one run in five innings. By the middle of that season, special trains were run from Cleveland whenever Alta Weiss was slated to pitch in the Cleveland Naps (Indians) ballpark, routinely drawing over 3,000. The Loran Times Herald wrote in 1907: - 'Miss Alta Weiss can easily lay claim to being the only one who can handle the ball from the pitcher's box in such style that some of the best semi-pros are made to fan the atmosphere.' Throwing a natural sinking fastball, Alta Weiss used her intelligence and changed her pitching-speed to baffle even the best of men hitters. She was paid handsomely and made enough to put her through medical school, and, even after she was a practicing physician she continued to pitch in men's leagues well into the decade of the 1920s. About her uniform, Alta Weiss told reporters, 'I found out that you can't play in skirts... I tried. I wore a skirt over my bloomers and nearly broke my neck. Finally, I was forced to discard it, and now always wear bloomers, but made wide enough that the fullness gives a skirt-like effect.' baseballhistorian.com- Archives - Women Baseball Players

[digglahhh]

Great post, Tiff.

I think you raise a lot of very good ideas.

The idea about cross-promotion with a new League of Their Own is great. A documentary released around the time of the launch of the league would be a great promotional tool. It is something that could be financed independently, at least to a degree. Normally, I'm very critical of the media for things like this, but the truth is you'd have to offer support to some extent in order to be able to exercise some level of editorial control.

You'd really need some compelling figures to make this work. I said it before, but the players would have to be incredibly accessible, and basically the antithesis of the spoiled modern athlete stereotype. There's a Jackie Robinson-esque element of needs that go beyond just baseball skills for the inaugural class of the league.

I also think you might be able to get a broadcast contract by thinking outside of the sports box. Perhaps a channel like WE would want to broadcast some of the games. I'm thinking that such an opportunity would represent a good chance for them to expand their viewership as well.

I'm guessing that NAE doesn't watch a whole lot of WE. But, I'm sure they'd love her to. The draw of this venture, from an investment standpoint would be the market synergy capabilities.

A lot of modern fans bemoan the state of the game, the PED scandals, the power dominated game... Would they turn to women's baseball for a return to "purity?" I dunno. The same same types of complaints about the modern day echo about the NBA, but not many fans turn to the WNBA for an alternative. But, men's NCAA basketball is a huge market, and many who dislike the pro game become huge college B-ball fans. That alternative doesn't really exist on a largely available level for most people when it comes to pro baseball, maybe they would be willing to check out some women's professional baseball.

I'm a dude, so I can't try to play or anything. But, I'll definitely be pressuring my friends to join a fantasy league. They'll do it too, we're all junkies...

[NotAboutEgo]

Great post, Tiff.

I think you raise a lot of very good ideas.

The idea about cross-promotion with a new League of Their Own is great. A documentary released around the time of the launch of the league would be a great promotional tool. It is something that could be financed independently, at least to a degree. Normally, I'm very critical of the media for things like this, but the truth is you'd have to offer support to some extent in order to be able to exercise some level of editorial control.

You'd really need some compelling figures to make this work. I said it before, but the players would have to be incredibly accessible, and basically the antithesis of the spoiled modern athlete stereotype. There's a Jackie Robinson-esque element of needs that go beyond just baseball skills for the inaugural class of the league.

I also think you might be able to get a broadcast contract by thinking outside of the sports box. Perhaps a channel like WE would want to broadcast some of the games. I'm thinking that such an opportunity would represent a good chance for them to expand their viewership as well.

I'm guessing that NAE doesn't watch a whole lot of WE. But, I'm sure they'd love her to. The draw of this venture, from an investment standpoint would be the market synergy capabilities.

A lot of modern fans bemoan the state of the game, the PED scandals, the power dominated game... Would they turn to women's baseball for a return to "purity?" I dunno. The same same types of complaints about the modern day echo about the NBA, but not many fans turn to the WNBA for an alternative. But, men's NCAA basketball is a huge market, and many who dislike the pro game become huge college B-ball fans. That alternative doesn't really exist on a largely available level for most people when it comes to pro baseball, maybe they would be willing to check out some women's professional baseball.

I'm a dude, so I can't try to play or anything. But, I'll definitely be pressuring my friends to join a fantasy league. They'll do it too, we're all junkies...

No, I don't watch a lot of WE, but I don't watch a lot of much of anything besides movies, the Tigers, and HGTV. I'm busy most of the time, either working, working out, going to Tiger games during the season, and playing baseball and soccer... and when I have any time to relax, I usually watch movies. I've watched WE and Oxygen on occasion, though. I definitely would watch more if they were to broadcast women's pro baseball. The WNBA used to be broadcast on Oxygen, I think... and now it's made it to FoxSports... finally.

But, now that you've mentioned it, I'm going to check those channels out regularly to see what's on them.

[NotAboutEgo]

Hi all!

What an interesting thread, imbued with great passion throughout. I think we should be grateful for such passionate discussion on such an important topic. I have been following this thread for several months, and although I don't often have enough time to post in here (or in Baseball Fever, in general), I have been thinking in great depth about how a true WMLB league could be started, and I have a few ideas. Not being a MLB insider, however, some of my ideas or assumptions may be a bit naive or unworkable, but perhaps we can use this post as a jumping off point for further discussion and/or development?

First, a little background. As has been stated in this thread already, really to make a league work, you obviously need money, and the two logical sources seem to be: 1) From some cooperative agreement with MLB and/or 2) from advertising revenue and licensing agreements generated via television coverage. Now for the purposes of my post, let's assume that MLB would consider a cooperative effort, but will pony up no actual money (I'll get to this later). So, for the sake of discussion, let's assume that we need advertising revenue derived primarily from television coverage. Okay, allow me to digress for a moment: I asked my roommate, a former college Fastpitch player, an Atlanta Braves fan, and a viewer of both NCAA Softball games and MLB games if she would watch a WMLB game if it were televised. Her answer? Not if it conflicted with a televised Fastpitch Softball game. Now that got me to thinking about avoiding competition and creating cooperation. It also led me to wonder why Arena Football is reasonably popular on TV. The answer? I think it's clear that it provides an outlet in the "off-season" of the NFL for football "junkies." It's also interesting, because it's a little different game than regular NFL ball. Okay, sorry this is long, but follow with me:
What if instead of competing for television space against MLB, we become the OFFSEASON alternative??? I know, I live in a snowy place too, but here are my ideas:
1) We develop the league in the Southern tier states where it's warm enough to play baseball in the winter...California, Arizona, Florida, etc. At least initially until the league could grow into spring/summer/fall league and hold its own (if possible). This doesn't mean that only "Southern" players could make the team, but just that you would be based in the South during the season. Another advantage to this is the wealth of talent both in baseball and in fastpitch softball players (who are converting to baseball) to draw upon in California, Arizona, and Florida. Increasingly Texas is coming to the forefront as well. Hey, it may not always be 70 or 80 degrees, but if we want this to work, we may have to play in 55 or 65 degress...or maybe less.
2) We make a cooperative agreement with MLB to use their "Spring Training" ball parks and facilites...they donate the use and upkeep for advertising. Most of the parks are nice and seat enough fans for a good start in the league, without paying for a huge venue that is disheartening to see all the empty seats.
3) We COOPERATE with (rather than compete against) MLB, by starting our season as the MLB World Series is finishing up (and get promotional commercials, appearances at ball parks etc.), and we end our season about the time of Spring Training with our own World Series that draws on Spring Training crowds. Maybe the MLB teams work out in the morning and we have a game in the afternoon or vice versa. Maybe we can even tie in to existing Cactus League or Instructional League attendance. It would be great if we could get MLB to introduce us at games, etc. Put players in attendance up on the big screen, roll a few clips, etc.
4) I could envision 6 to 8 teams for start-up, all southern cities to begin with. Small enough not to break the bank, but large enough to hold interest and develop a city or regional fan base.
5) Announcers/Commentators might be easier to come by than we'd imagine...if we sell our league as an opportunity for "rookie" broadcasters from ESPN, Fox Sports, NBC, etc. to be a proving or training ground for their up and comers.
6) As I understand it, umpires must also spend a certain amount of time in each level in the Minors to work their way up to the Bigs. Perhaps with an agreement with MLB, our WMLB (or whatever is marketable for a name) would allow them credit for AAA or AA or whatever level they think is appropriate. Naturally, as the league develops, we will have big name commentators and Major League umps, but we have to start somewhere. My grandfather used to say, "You can't steer a canoe that isn't moving." A wise man, I think. Let's see if we can get the canoe moving.
Some other ideas:
A) Have an International Series with teams from Australia. Their summer is our winter, after all, and the Aussies would be in the height of their season when we're at the height of ours (February).
B) Generate development interest by filming a new "League of their Own", Women's Baseball Renaissance film.
C) Associate (if possible) with Major League clubs and affiliates wherever possible... for example, if we used the Twins' facilities in Fort Myers, FL (site of some of the 2007 WWS games), there might be a natural tie-in.
D) Perhaps by starting a league that is in the MLB Off-season, maybe some players, assistant coaches, trainers, etc. might be interested in taking an active role in the WMLB? As community service? Good PR? Or?

Okay...now these are just some of the ideas...of course, the number one problem is payroll for players. I don't think many of us would be so greedy that we wouldn't just take enough of a salary to survive, especially to get everything started. I honestly don't know where the payroll money would come from. It has been a continuing problem in the NPF (National Pro Fastpitch League), but several teams do continue to struggle along on sponsorships, gate receipts, promotions and some website advertising. Ideally, MLB clubs/Minor teams would bankroll the equivalent of a AA salary for 6 or 8 women's teams, recouping investment off future earning, television spots, etc. It's an investment of $$$ with (I think) a decent prospect of good return...as long as we are the "off-season" alternative. I deeply believe we have the opportunity to be far more successful financially than the NPF, though, if we market ourselves in the off-season. I don't know about any of you, but I've been VERY much wanting to see ANYTHING baseball related lately! In other words, I think A LOT of baseball fans would watch WMLB during October to February. Our target audiences would be:
1) Baseball Fans of both genders
2) Softball fans and players
3) Women sports enthusiasts
4) Women in General
5) Non-Football watchers (perhaps)

Okay...I'm out of ideas for now. Thanks for your patience in reading this really long post! I look forward to your thoughtful and constructive replies and discussions.

Best to all,

Tiffany J. Brooks

Now that I've been back for 3 weeks from playing baseball for a week in the South and not having to do anything else (except for hang out with friends and have a great time), I'm willing to give up my good day job to play pro baseball in the South during the winter. I've had it with the corporate world and would love to live out my dream on the baseball field. I can find things to do in the off season to supplement my baseball income... no problem with that. I've recently let go of the *need* for the comforts of my benefits and income to be able to do something I want to do above all. I'd give up my current career and would sign the dotted line for a pro baseball contract in a heartbeat.

[NotAboutEgo]

Could you provide any evidence to back that up? Men's world record distances are greater than women's.

From what I could find ski jump has not been included because few countries would be able to send competitors. It's not a widespread sport. I do see that women's ski jump will be added to other international competitions over the next couple of years.

Found this bit of info today...

http://www.wsj2010.com/

On January 5, 2008, at the Whistler Olympic ski jumps, a woman set the overall normal hill record.

[NotAboutEgo]

http://www.wsj2010.com/

WHEREAS ski jumping is the only activity in the Olympic Winter Games that does not allow women to compete, and
WHEREAS women from all over the world currently compete in an international women's tour (FIS Continental Cup) comprised of competitions in Asia, Europe, and North America on regulation Olympic ski jumps, and

WHEREAS the International Federation for ski jumping, the FIS, overwhelmingly voted to add women's ski jumping to the FIS World Championships and request the International Olympic Committee include a women's ski jumping event in the 2010 Olympic Winter Games, and

WHEREAS events for women have been added to the Olympic program in recent years which have had less participating athletes, nations, and universality in competitions than women's ski jumping, and

WHEREAS women's ski jumping is unique from all other candidate new entrant events as it is only requesting a women's event be added to the already existing Olympic event of ski jumping, and

WHEREAS the Olympic Charter specifically states as a mission and role of the IOC "to encourage and support the promotion of women in sport at all levels and in all structures with a view to implementing the principle of equality of men and women", and

WHEREAS the Olympic Charter also specifically states "Any form of discrimination with regard to a country or a person on grounds of race, religion, politics, gender or otherwise is incompatible with belonging to the Olympic Movement" as a fundamental principle of Olympism

[NotAboutEgo]

Here's a post from a guy who signed the petition for Olympic women's ski jumping. Notice how he said his wife jumped in first place... against men... many times when she ski jumped. The things he writes also apply to women's and girls' baseball... when they are told they can't do something.

Feb 27, 2008, Thomas, Jr. Olsen , Michigan
Hi, I am married to the first woman ever to jump a 90-meter event in competition, in the world. Her name is Therese Altobelli. In fact, there is a trophy in the Midwest in her honor, which is given to the outstanding junior female jumper each year. I have watched Therese over the last 7 years, and have listened to her stories. Her first competitive jump in 1978 was at Pine Mountain in Iron Mountain MI. Her dream back then was to jump in the Olympics. At that time the IOC not only banned her from participating in the Olympics but also wouldn't even allow her to jump as a forerunner before the grand ski jumping event. Therese competed against the men for years. She took many first place trophies and many ribbons back in those days. That was when woman's lib was in the limelight; men struggled to be defeated by a woman. Therese was mocked and made fun of over and over at all the tournaments she went to, but she persevered because she loved the sport. Her ultimate dream; to Ski Jump in the Olympics was never realized. But she still lives the dream in her mind, hoping that one-day a woman's event or that women can compete with the men in ski jumping at the Olympics. Recently, a very emotional time for Therese, she spent time with Karla Keck, a woman jumper from Minnesota, they exchanged many of the same emotions that one another felt as each of these girls went through some very jubilant but disappointing times in their jumping days. Please don't continue to hurt todays woman jumpers. Create a new event!! The days of woman's lib have long been over. We have a woman running for president of the United States for God's sake. Why would you NOT allow a young person the opportunity to do something they love to do!! Something that is so much in their hearts, something that lives on in their hearts for years and years. Instead of, in pain for years, help them live in joy for years!! This just might give some young lady an opportunity to touch the rest of the world and help make a difference. When the United States and its allies around the world ousted Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq, we helped the Iraqis become a democratic society, and helped woman gain equality there. I think it is time to give woman equality in ski jumping and other sports on an international level as well.

[metfan13]

Found this bit of info today...

http://www.wsj2010.com/

On January 5, 2008, at the Whistler Olympic ski jumps, a woman set the overall normal hill record.

That was 3 weeks after the place first opened. Let's see how it goes once there is a men's competition there.

[metfan13]

Oh and by the way, I signed the petition. No reason women shouldn't have a ski jump competition in the Olympics.

[NotAboutEgo]

Oh and by the way, I signed the petition. No reason women shouldn't have a ski jump competition in the Olympics.

Good for you.

[nerfan]

Women simply do not have the core strength required to throw 90+. Let me put it this way. In high school, I was the #2 pitcher with a 76 MPH fastball and a really sharp hammer curve. Our #1 that year was Mike Lloynd, who eventually made the major leagues. My 76 MPH fastball, with control, and my curve could easily make a second-tier women's team. Now the fastest pitch I ever threw was 80 MPH. I threw it off a really high (non-regulation) mound. I never even sniffed college ball simply because I wasn't good enough. If a women ever makes it to the majors, it will be as a finesse pitcher, perhaps in the mold of Jamie Moyer. Now these women on the top teams you say are throwing 75. Our third best pitcher threw 75.

[NotAboutEgo]

Women simply do not have the core strength required to throw 90+. Let me put it this way. In high school, I was the #2 pitcher with a 76 MPH fastball and a really sharp hammer curve. Our #1 that year was Mike Lloynd, who eventually made the major leagues. My 76 MPH fastball, with control, and my curve could easily make a second-tier women's team. Now the fastest pitch I ever threw was 80 MPH. I threw it off a really high (non-regulation) mound. I never even sniffed college ball simply because I wasn't good enough. If a women ever makes it to the majors, it will be as a finesse pitcher, perhaps in the mold of Jamie Moyer. Now these women on the top teams you say are throwing 75. Our third best pitcher threw 75.

I agree with what you're saying about any women pitching in the majors being finesse pitchers. Again, you have to remember that women haven't had the change to develop and play as much as men... such as in high school and higher. Boys being able to play in high school and beyond gives them a lot more opportunity to develop than the women who are playing today have had. Out of the women who are pitching in women's leagues today, 99.99% didn't play youth baseball, high school baseball, or beyond. So, when all girls have the open opportunity to play baseball in youth leagues, in high school, college, etc., then the average velocity for women would increase. How much would it increase? Who knows, but it would improve given opportunities to develop and gain a lot more experience.

[NotAboutEgo]

So, most of the women pitching today didn't start pitching until they started playing in adult leagues... as adults.

[nerfan]

So, most of the women pitching today didn't start pitching until they started playing in adult leagues... as adults.

That's very true. I could definitely see a Jamie Moyer-esque woman making it to the big leagues someday. Women's baseball should definitely be encouraged.

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

Whew,

For those of you who don't know, I haven't been on BBF for aboiut six months, so I haven't followed this or many other threads. I never thought I would start a thread that could give so many insightful and well-opinionated posts (especially the recent one by Tiff).

I think women should be allowed in the minors for a little bit. If that works out (which it probably would) then arrangements could be made for women in the MLB. It would be very interesting to see inter-gender (is that a word?) play. I belive there are some women who are quite capable of AA or AAA, maybe even the majors.

[NotAboutEgo]

I agree with you and Nerfan. There's no reason why women should be banned from playing in the minors and majors. If they are good enough and can develop their talents, skills, and abilities, there's no reason they shouldn't be allowed to compete at the same levels.

It's ridiculous. Whoever is good enough should have a chance, and everyone who is good enough should have an equal opportunity to play at all levels and develop further. It's time for the iron fist of the male to come to an end... the belief that men rule, and therefore, women should have limited or no opportunities.

It would be interesting to see how people, especially those who are not in favor of equality for all, would react to an MLB player who has a physical handicap (more so than that of Jim Abbott) and who can compete successfully at the MLB level. I bet that person would receive all kinds of grief and ridicule from those who are too insecure to handle anyone "different" playing at the MLB level.

[metfan13]

I agree with you and Nerfan. There's no reason why women should be banned from playing in the minors and majors. If they are good enough and can develop their talents, skills, and abilities, there's no reason they shouldn't be allowed to compete at the same levels.

It's ridiculous. Whoever is good enough should have a chance, and everyone who is good enough should have an equal opportunity to play at all levels and develop further. It's time for the iron fist of the male to come to an end... the belief that men rule, and therefore, women should have limited or no opportunities.

It would be interesting to see how people, especially those who are not in favor of equality for all, would react to an MLB player who has a physical handicap (more so than that of Jim Abbott) and who can compete successfully at the MLB level. I bet that person would receive all kinds of grief and ridicule from those who are too insecure to handle anyone "different" playing at the MLB level.

Do you realize HOW good you have to play at the ML level? How exactly would someone wth MORE of a handicap than Jim Abbott (who was amazing) be able to compete at that level?

Is there a specific rule that prohibits women from playing in the majors? Is it actually written into the bylaws that MLB is a men only league?

[NotAboutEgo]

Do you realize HOW good you have to play at the ML level? How exactly would someone wth MORE of a handicap than Jim Abbott (who was amazing) be able to compete at that level?

Is there a specific rule that prohibits women from playing in the majors? Is it actually written into the bylaws that MLB is a men only league?

Have you ever heard of Aimee Mullins? If not... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aimee_Mullins

Aimee Mullins

Mullins was born with fibular hemimelia (missing fibula bones) and had both of her legs amputated below the knee when she was just a year old. She is a graduate of Parkland High School in Allentown and Georgetown University in Washington, D.C.

While attending Georgetown University she competed against able-bodied athletes in NCAA Division I track and field events and set Paralympic records in 1996 in Atlanta in the 100-meter dash and the long jump. Her personal bests are: 15.77 seconds for the 100-meter dash, 34.60 seconds for the 200 meter, and 3.5 meters for the long-jump.

Also while at Georgetown, Mullins won a place on the Foreign Affairs internship program, working at The Pentagon. She also makes appearances as a motivational speaker.


Yes, there is a formal ban on women playing in MLB that has been in place since 1952. As far as I know, it never has been lifted. I believe there also is a formal ban on women playing in the MLB-affiliated minors that still stands.

[NotAboutEgo]

Do you realize HOW good you have to play at the ML level? How exactly would someone wth MORE of a handicap than Jim Abbott (who was amazing) be able to compete at that level?

Is there a specific rule that prohibits women from playing in the majors? Is it actually written into the bylaws that MLB is a men only league?

If Jim Abbott was amazing, why can't others be? You'd be surprised what people can do with physical limits/disabilities.