Babe Herman

[Jackaroo Dave]

I always get Babe Herman confused with this guy:

Why would you confuse him with Pee Wee Reese?

The fact that for a while there was a serious discussion about Babe Herman's HOF qualifications shows how statistics outlast images. I can recall reading a lot about Herman as a kid in the fifties, and each piece would mention the Fresco Thompson quote, Babe's fielding a fly ball with his head (or shoulder), and his role in the 3 men on 3rd. They also talked about his awesome hitting, but it was like part of the act. You couldn't seriously mention him as a candidate, because you couldn't mention him seriously.

So even if he'd hit .400, I don't think he'd've had a following like Maris or Wilson.

[Dude Paskert]

I always get Babe Herman confused with this guy:

I get him confused with Babe Didriksen Zaharias!

babe.jpg

[Cowtipper]

Don't worry about it. The search engine here ain't so hot. I'm pretty sure CT is aware of this...

Yeah, I wasn't being critical or trying to "get" him, I was just pointing it out so the threads could be combined.

[Freakshow]

OF similar to Herman. Within 12 WAR, 10 OPS+ and 850 PA of the little Babe since 1885.

Rk              Player WAR/pos OPS+   PA Rfield From   To
1          Elmer Flick    50.2  149 6414     30 1898 1910 H
2           Larry Doby    47.0  136 6299     14 1947 1959 H
3          Ralph Kiner    46.2  149 6256    -40 1946 1955 H
4         Sam Thompson    42.1  147 6525     11 1885 1906 H
5         Mike Tiernan    40.0  138 6732      2 1887 1899
6       Bill Nicholson    39.9  132 6418     14 1936 1953
7         Wally Berger    39.8  138 5665     20 1930 1940
8           Tony Oliva    39.7  131 6880     55 1962 1976
9         Ken Williams    39.5  138 5624     21 1915 1929
10   Darryl Strawberry    39.2  138 6326     -8 1983 1999
11         Babe Herman    38.3  141 6228    -31 1926 1945
12         Hack Wilson    37.3  144 5556    -33 1923 1934 H
13        Albert Belle    36.9  144 6676    -63 1989 2000
14          Jeff Heath    34.0  139 5561      7 1936 1949
15       Tommy Henrich    33.6  132 5410     26 1937 1950
16      Pedro Guerrero    31.7  137 6115    -73 1978 1992
17          Rico Carty    29.8  132 6318     -1 1963 1979

[PVNICK]

Seeing this thread reminds me how times have changed. I remember as a kid there reading an article(s) in Baseball Digest about how maybe Herman or Riggs Stephenson should have been in the Hall because of their high career batting averages. At the time they might have had the highest career averages among eligible batters with over 5000(?) AB who were not in.

[Dude Paskert]

I can't remember where I read this, but I love it...Herman is wearing a snazzy light-colored summer suit while leaving his hotel on a blistering day and an attractive lady behind the desk says, "My, you look cool in your suit, Mr. Herman."
Babe likes the look of her and sidles up with a come-hither look on his face..."You don't look so hot, yourself."

(and then a fly ball hit him in the head)

[SamtheBravesFan]

Seeing this thread reminds me how times have changed. I remember as a kid there reading an article(s) in Baseball Digest about how maybe Herman or Riggs Stephenson should have been in the Hall because of their high career batting averages. At the time they might have had the highest career averages among eligible batters with over 5000(?) AB who were not in.

Stephenson still does have the largest average with a 5000 PA minimum (5134 PA): .336. Then Babe Herman (6628 PA) with a .324 average.

[Jackaroo Dave]

Seeing this thread reminds me how times have changed. I remember as a kid there reading an article(s) in Baseball Digest about how maybe Herman or Riggs Stephenson should have been in the Hall because of their high career batting averages. At the time they might have had the highest career averages among eligible batters with over 5000(?) AB who were not in.

I think maybe I remember that article, too. But if so I remember it as a contrarian piece debunking the Herman cartoon. (Or maybe it was the first shot fired from the 'let's take Babe statistically seriously' side.)

[Freakshow]

Stephenson still does have the largest average with a 5000 PA minimum (5134 PA): .336. Then Babe Herman (6628 PA) with a .324 average.

Highest career BA, retired players, non-HOF, 1000+ G:

Player                   BA OPS+    G From   To   Age   PA
Shoeless Joe Jackson   .356  169 1332 1908 1920 20-32 5692
Pete Browning          .341  163 1183 1882 1894 21-33 5315
Riggs Stephenson       .336  129 1309 1921 1934 23-36 5134
Mike Donlin            .333  144 1049 1899 1914 21-36 4282
Tip ONeill             .326  144 1052 1883 1892 25-34 4712
Bob Fothergill         .325  115 1105 1922 1933 24-35 3581
Babe Herman            .324  141 1553 1926 1945 23-42 6228
Ken Williams           .319  138 1398 1915 1929 25-39 5624
George Van Haltren     .316  122 1990 1887 1903 21-37 9017
Cecil Travis           .314  108 1328 1933 1947 19-33 5416
Bibb Falk              .314  113 1354 1920 1931 21-32 5265
Nomar Garciaparra      .313  124 1434 1996 2009 22-35 6116
Larry Walker           .313  141 1988 1989 2005 22-38 8030
Jack Fournier          .313  142 1530 1912 1927 22-37 6033
Edgar Martinez         .312  147 2055 1987 2004 24-41 8674
Dale Mitchell          .312  114 1127 1946 1956 24-34 4358
Barney McCosky         .312  111 1170 1939 1953 22-36 4760
Deacon White           .312  127 1560 1871 1890 23-42 6973

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

Herman's productivity for a corner OF whoc career was primarily in the 1920's and 1930's is not that impressive as his OPS+ of 112 attests. Good, but not special.

I wonder if the people who voted for Babe Herman aren't confusing him with Billy Herman.

Herman's OPS+ is 141. Guilty!

As a small Hall guy, my answer is "no" but he was a good player.

[ol' aches and pains]

I can't remember where I read this, but I love it...Herman is wearing a snazzy light-colored summer suit while leaving his hotel on a blistering day and an attractive lady behind the desk says, "My, you look cool in your suit, Mr. Herman."
Babe likes the look of her and sidles up with a come-hither look on his face..."You don't look so hot, yourself."

(and then a fly ball hit him in the head)

I've always seen that anecdote attributed to Yogi Berra.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I think you could ask the same question about O'Doul who hit .398 in 1929, one hit away from .400.

Just remember hitting .400 didn't help Tuck Turner.

Had O'Doul and Herman hit .400, BOTH have them would have made the HOF.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Seeing this thread reminds me how times have changed. I remember as a kid there reading an article(s) in Baseball Digest about how maybe Herman or Riggs Stephenson should have been in the Hall because of their high career batting averages. At the time they might have had the highest career averages among eligible batters with over 5000(?) AB who were not in.

I remember the artlcle. Riggs Stephenson has nowhere near the case as does Herman, given the fact that Stepherson was a part-time player most of his career. Herman may, or may not, be unfairly maligned for his defense, but he was a full-time player in ways that Stephenson never was.

[TomBodet]

Bill James actually lightened up on this guy, sez he's Pedro Guerrero or Danny Tartabull. That sounds more like it, real good DH but short of being a Hof.

[Nimrod]

Even in death Babe had some humorHerman.Babe.Grave1.jpg

[Fuzzy Bear]

Bill James actually lightened up on this guy, sez he's Pedro Guerrero or Danny Tartabull. That sounds more like it, real good DH but short of being a Hof.

Guerrerro is kind of a Dick Allen Lite; he's got a .686 OWP for his career. He's borderline at minimum, and he's better than a whole slew of HOFers (albeit most of them undeserving).

[dgarza]

A few years ago, I voted YES, but now he's on my MAYBE list. Possibly could have been a War call up, but played in the Pacific Coast League instead.

[Freakshow]

Five years ago in The Ultimate Quest for Candidates project Herman was named the 9th best HOF candidate among MLB players from the 1930's. The top ten:

Wes Ferrell
Wally Berger
Tommy Bridges
Bob Johnson
Buddy Myer
Dick Bartell
Lefty O'Doul
Lon Warneke
Babe Herman
Dolph Camilli

Herman was also left off the list of the top 100 HOF candidates.

[Fuzzy Bear]

A legitimate knock on Herman is that he comes from an era that is already over-honored in the HOF.