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Thread: Yankee Stadium [I] (1923 - 1973)

  1. #1981
    Quote Originally Posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    You must be aware there was no DH in 1948, pitchers actually batted back then.
    Must he?

    Hey, at least he knew Feller was a pitcher, so all old-time baseball lore has not been lost! Seriously though, that is why I have become so addicted to this site. There is some great historical information woven into these threads.
    Last edited by monkeypants; 11-19-2008 at 09:05 PM.

  2. #1982
    Ban Johnson was the founder of the American League.

    The DH was introduced in the AL in 1973 to reward incompetence. Pitchers who could handle the bat and sluggers who worked on their fielding gave their teams way too much of an advantage.

  3. #1983
    Quote Originally Posted by tugger View Post
    Ban Johnson was the founder of the American League.

    The DH was introduced in the AL in 1973 to reward incompetence. Pitchers who could handle the bat and sluggers who worked on their fielding gave their teams way too much of an advantage.
    I, personally, love spending $70 on tickets to see a pitcher stand at the back corner of the box to take 3 straight strikes.

  4. #1984
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean O View Post
    I, personally, love spending $70 on tickets to see a pitcher stand at the back corner of the box to take 3 straight strikes.
    Heck of a lot more action for your buck at Ultimate Fighting.

  5. #1985
    Quote Originally Posted by tugger View Post
    Heck of a lot more action for your buck at Ultimate Fighting.
    I'm just saying, the essence of baseball is pitcher vs. hitter. Pitcher versus someone who has zero ability as a hitter isn't interesting. You may as well randomly decide that some guy in the stands gets to take swings.

    If pitchers could, as a whole, hit at least .200 I'd feel differently. But last year there were 10 pitchers with at least 50 ABs (or, slightly fewer than 2 per start) with a .200 or higher BA.

    No DH = worse baseball. Instead of the best vs. the best, you have crappy matchups, every 9 spots, and a greater chance of the 12th guy in the bullpen trying to win the game. Scintillating.

  6. #1986
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean O View Post
    I, personally, love spending $70 on tickets to see a pitcher stand at the back corner of the box to take 3 straight strikes.
    Cause or effect? Pitchers, while never good hitters (usually) have become much worse because of the adoption of the DH at nearly every level of nearly every league. Eliminate the DH and the hitting ability of pitchers would improve overall.

  7. #1987
    Quote Originally Posted by monkeypants View Post
    Cause or effect? Pitchers, while never good hitters (usually) have become much worse because of the adoption of the DH at nearly every level of nearly every league. Eliminate the DH and the hitting ability of pitchers would improve overall.
    Show me the stats that pre-DH pitchers hit better, please.

  8. #1988
    Start the DH in 1900 and Babe never takes a swing.

  9. #1989
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean O View Post
    Show me the stats that pre-DH pitchers hit better, please.
    Ask and ye shall receive. I only calculated the last five years for post-DH, and I only report the aves for 1956-1972 (the only stats available on Baseball-reference.com). I also included the batting averages for 1B as a comparison, to take into account (roughly) the offensive environment for the league. The numbers *seem* to show that pitchers now bat somewhat worse than they did in the pre-DH days, and about 16 points worse (average 1956-1972 v. 2004-2008)) relative than the average 1B.

    So, I would conclude that pitchers were always bad, but that they have gotten relative worse worse as hitters since the DH. It's too bad that I cannot access the stats for before 1956, since they may indicate a longer term decline in pitcher hitting, which may indicate that such a decline in batting skill is partially independent of the DH rule.

    The numbers:

    Year Bat Ave (P) Bat Ave (1B) difference
    2008 0.139 0.272 0.133
    2007 0.146 0.276 0.130
    2006 0.131 0.285 0.154 Average P 0.141
    2005 0.148 0.276 0.128 Average 1B 0.277
    2004 0.143 0.274 0.131 Average Dif 0.135

    1972 0.146 0.264 0.118
    1971 0.148 0.266 0.118
    1970 0.146 0.268 0.122
    1969 0.140 0.268 0.128
    1968 0.133 0.253 0.120
    1967 0.137 0.258 0.121
    1966 0.149 0.262 0.113
    1965 0.133 0.259 0.126
    1964 0.138 0.264 0.126
    1963 0.141 0.254 0.113
    1962 0.150 0.273 0.123
    1961 0.159 0.278 0.119
    1960 0.155 0.277 0.122
    1959 0.154 0.272 0.118
    1958 0.164 0.274 0.110 Average P 0.148
    1957 0.158 0.278 0.120 Average 1B 0.267
    1956 0.172 0.277 0.105 Average Dif 0.119

  10. #1990
    Sorry--that chart is hard to read, but if you squint you can see that pitchers' BAs have dropped about 7 points from 1956-72 to 2004-08, while the 1Bs' BAs have are about 10 points higher 2004-08 v. 1956-72, suggesting that pitchers have become somewhat worse hitters since the adoption of the DH.

  11. #1991
    Interesting article which suggests, somewhat contrary to my argument above, that pitchers have been getting worse as hitters since the 1800s, as they became more specialized at their primary skill (pitching).:

    http://www.slate.com/id/2099612/

    Still, the Dh rule would only serve to accelerate this process.

  12. #1992
    More pics from LIFE

    George Weiss


    Choir for PVI


    Joe D actually smiling!


    Babe in 48


    Lou fan


    Standing for Babe


    PVI


    J Witnesses


    Steel grey skys

  13. #1993
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    5,432
    Quote Originally Posted by tugger View Post
    Steel grey skys
    What's with the stretch marks

  14. #1994
    Moisture in the cracks.

  15. #1995
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Green Bay, WI
    Posts
    277
    You'd think a REAL Yankee fan would have remembered that Ron Blomberg was the first designated hitter...
    "Shake it off. That's part of the game, you know. Baseball, hotdogs, apple pie and a shot in the mask." - Bob Uecker.

  16. #1996
    Life Magazine pics of Yankee Stadium found here:

    http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...=Search+Images

  17. #1997
    Quote Originally Posted by piedmontphilly View Post
    Life Magazine pics of Yankee Stadium found here:

    http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...=Search+Images
    great source for pics of OYS in high resolution. thanks for posting.

  18. #1998
    Quote Originally Posted by yankees82 View Post
    great source for pics of OYS in high resolution. thanks for posting.
    Some of them have people in a pool. Was there a pool in the old old stadium?

  19. #1999
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Section 538, Row 1
    Posts
    7,725
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyjimjimz View Post
    Some of them have people in a pool. Was there a pool in the old old stadium?
    No. The caption to those photos read: Jehovah's Witnesses At Yankee Stadium & Mass Baptism At Riverside Cascade Swimming Pool, NYC.

    The photos you're referring to show the mass baptism at the Riverside Cascade swimming pool.

    X
    Archie Bunker: All I can tell you, Edith, is I'm surprised at you! Dragging me off to a moving picture like that! It was absolutely disgusting!
    Edith Bunker: Well, I'm sorry, Archie, how was I to know? I thought it was a religious picture, "Cardinal Knowledge!"

  20. #2000

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