All-Time Draft Rematch

[brett]

I'd appreciate it if you guys would list your all time top 20 on this thread.

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=72334

I will rank players using a point system this time. Some players will be placed, and others will move to the second round depending on point totals and how many ballots they are listed on.

[ChrisLDuncan]

here we go...



Walter Johnson, 1911-15

The Draft is in a different thread too, in the DRAFT thread.

[leecemark]

--I undid all the stickies from the old project so the current thread scould rise to the top. Hope that is okay with everyone. I think it will make it easier to keep up with whats going on.

[Wade8813]

I'm glad you did.

Do we even need this thread any more?

[The Splendid Splinter]

I'm glad you did.

Do we even need this thread any more?

yeah we need a discussion, draft, and roster thread. we got all three right now.

[ChrisLDuncan]

The discussion was in "Anyone Interested in a Rematch" thread...we could merge the two?

[brett]

I liked the pick of Speaker at spot 13. Centerfielders are running out!

There are 2 other BIG name, all time national leaguers out there, but I'm not sure I would take either one if they are there for my next pick.

[Minstrel]

Love the pick of Alex Rodriguez. He was definitely next on my list, so ouch.

[ChrisLDuncan]

What about the pick of Alexander? I was teeteing between him and others, I figured I need an ace and over the five year peak I selected he had a WARP3 in the 60s so I figured he'd probably be the best selection. Although he's very underrated.

[Wee Willie]

Pete was a definitely a good pick. His run in that stretch is quite impressive.

[brett]

Love the pick of Alex Rodriguez. He was definitely next on my list, so ouch.

For clarification, am I right that A-Rod does not qualify to play at third base based on those season selected? I think it was stated that they needed 162 at a position during the 5 year stretch.

I know that WARP is not the end-all, but I think A-Rod only has the 4th or 5th best 5 year WARP for a shortstop. If he could have played third, he would have been maybe #5 or #6 in 5 year WARP there too, giving some flexibility. On the other hand, its nice to be able to plug in a SS with 50 home runs in the cleanup spot. And with Schmidt, you don't need A-Rod to play 3B.

Schmidt is a great choice, though interestignly because of a livelier ball introduced starting in '77, his best relative years may have been '74-'78. They may not be perceived as such though, but third base drops off real quickly at certain points.

[ChrisLDuncan]

For clarification, am I right that A-Rod does not qualify to play at third base based on those season selected? I think it was stated that they needed 162 at a position during the 5 year stretch.

Since he has enough games at third, if Mark wanted to pick A-Rod from 1996-2000 he could play third. They just need 162 games career to be eligible to play a certain position.

[brett]

What about the pick of Alexander? I was teeteing between him and others, I figured I need an ace and over the five year peak I selected he had a WARP3 in the 60s so I figured he'd probably be the best selection. Although he's very underrated.

Was the other choice you wrestled with a pitcher as well?

I think that if you have to choose between a pitcher with 350 innings and one with 270 who have fairly close WARP scores, the lower inning guy is going to give you more concentrated value on a great team. Still, Pete could "cut back" to 270 and throw more of his best stuff.

Just remember that there are a lot more pitchers who had dominant short stretches, but who didn't have hall of fame careers out there. Something like 20 of the top 100 pitching seasons in history probably were produced by non hall of famers while only maybe 5 of the top 100 hitting seasons did.

I will just say that pitchers are very very hard for me to place in this draft after Walter Johnson, but Alexander was, at the moment, #1 on my list of pitchers based on stamina, having real live ball stuff, having consistency from year to year. He may have been the MVP in the major leagues during that stretch.

[ChrisLDuncan]

Pete was a definitely a good pick. His run in that stretch is quite impressive.

There were just so many aces to chose from. So I decided flip a coin.

[ChrisLDuncan]

Was the other choice you wrestled with a pitcher as well?

Yes...and I doubt he'll still be there.

I think that if you have to choose between a pitcher with 350 innings and one with 270 who have fairly close WARP scores, the lower inning guy is going to give you more concentrated value on a great team. Still, Pete could "cut back" to 270 and throw more of his best stuff.

That's the way I was thinking too...however, after watching a bullpen blow games over the past few seasons I'm taking the horse

Just remember that there are a lot more pitchers who had dominant short stretches, but who didn't have hall of fame careers out there. Something like 20 of the top 100 pitching seasons in history probably were produced by non hall of famers while only maybe 5 of the top 100 hitting seasons did.

Yeah I wanted it to take peak into account, but not let guys who had lucky BABIP seasons be better than Hall of Famers. So I figure a five year stretch should be long enough to cut the riff raff.

I will just say that pitchers are very very hard for me to place in this draft after Walter Johnson, but Alexander was, at the moment, #1 on my list of pitchers based on stamina, having real live ball stuff, having consistency from year to year. He may have been the MVP in the major leagues during that stretch.

Yeah, that's the way I was thinking too. Hopefully no one takes the other guy I wanted, but I doubt it...

[brett]

Since he has enough games at third, if Mark wanted to pick A-Rod from 1996-2000 he could play third. They just need 162 games career to be eligible to play a certain position.

So Bonds can play centerfield but get credit for his 2000-2004 hitting numbers. I'll keep the rule in mind, but I think someone should have to have played there at least some during the 5 years, say 50 games. If not, that's fine though.

[Wade8813]

Well, it seems to me that the way things are right now, he can play CF, but you still have his stats as a poor fielding corner outfielder. You're still using his stats from those 5 years, so he'd be a really crappy fielder.

[brett]

When you use a simulator, does it adjust for the offensive environment that the player played in or do anything for league quality?

[Erik Bedard]

The DB I use does. Not sure about Lahman, which is the more mainstream version.

[Erik Bedard]

There were just so many aces to chose from. So I decided flip a coin.

That's basically what I did when I was deciding between Maddux and Pedro. Except I didn't actually flip the coin. I basically went with Maddux because some voters might take off too much credit for Pedro missing half a season.

[ElHalo]

Sam ready to draft? Minstrel? When do the windows expire? I have a laser beam site on one player, and I don't really know what I'll do if he isn't there.

[Wade8813]

Well then, instead of being so impatient, you should figure out a backup plan...

[brett]

Sam ready to draft? Minstrel? When do the windows expire? I have a laser beam site on one player, and I don't really know what I'll do if he isn't there.

I PMed him right after the last vote, but he has until 1 pm central time tomorrow, technically, to make a pick.

[ElHalo]

I PMed him right after the last vote, but he has until 1 pm central time tomorrow, technically, to make a pick.

How? Doesn't his clock expire the second the overnight tolling period ends?

[leecemark]

So Bonds can play centerfield but get credit for his 2000-2004 hitting numbers. I'll keep the rule in mind, but I think someone should have to have played there at least some during the 5 years, say 50 games. If not, that's fine though.

--My thinking is that since we are specifying a 5 year period the player ought to qualify there during that period. I'd prefer the full 162 game requirement (adjusted if the 5 year period was one of shorter seasons).
--As for A-Rod, I'd be wasting alot of his value by using him at 3B. Being as I drafted Schmidt immediately ahead of him I think his position on my ballclub is obviously going to be SS anyway.