Is the guy possibly underrated? 126 OPS+ as a historic 3B glove, great peak, etc. I think if he stretches out 3-4 more solid seasons, he should without question be in consideration for top 6-7 third basemen.
Registered User
Is the guy possibly underrated? 126 OPS+ as a historic 3B glove, great peak, etc. I think if he stretches out 3-4 more solid seasons, he should without question be in consideration for top 6-7 third basemen.
Power Users
Scott's Relative Stats:
----Relative BA-----Rel.Slg.-------Rel.Onbase----Rel.ISO-------OPS+
---------1.04----------1.17------------1.08-------------------126 (206th)
Home/Away--BA----Slg.----onbase----HR----D-----T-----RBI------AB------BB
Home:-----.286---.503------.380-----119---193---20----536-----2,719----383
Away:-----.281---.510------.364-----142---187---12-----476-----2,779----335
Scott Rolan, Cardinals' 3B, October 6, 2006-------------------Phillies' 3B, 1996-02-------BB Reference
-------------------------------------
How Scott fared in our 3 rounds of Greatest Position Players Poll/Surveys:
leecemark; November 12, 2004, 07:44 AM
The Final Tally
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Mike Schmidt 183
2. George Brett 162
3. Eddie Mathews 152
4. Wade Boggs 133
5. Ron Santo 87
6. Frank Baker 79
7. Brooks Robinson 77
8. Pie Traynor 63
9. Ken Boyer 23
10. Darrell Evans 17
--Schmidt was a run away winner, which I'm sure is no surprise to most of us. There were alot of people getting votes and the 9th and 10th place winners were each actually mentioned by less than 1/3 of voters each with quite a few players having higher finishes on somebody's ballot than either Boyer or Evans.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
538280; 11-16-2005, 12:18 PM
The results are now in. It wasn't particularly close, Mike Schmidt ran away with this one. These are the final results:
Mike Schmidt-177 (14)
Eddie Mathews-122
George Brett-122
Wade Boggs-98 (1)
Ron Santo-87
Frank Baker-50
Brooks Robinson-47
Pie Traynor-28
Ken Boyer-20
Paul Molitor-17
Jimmy Collins-17
Darrell Evans-17
Ray Dandridge-12
No one else received more than 10 points.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Burgess; May 9, 2007, 03:41 PM
Here are the results of our 3Base poll, with the revised totals included from AG2004's ballot.
3Base:
1. Mike Schmidt - 154
2. George Brett - 136
3. Eddie Matthews - 117
4. Wade Boggs - 102
5. Ron Santo - 69
6. Frank Baker - 60
7. Brooks Robinson - 42
8. Paul Molitor - 40
9. Jimmy Collins - 31
10. Pie Traynor - 21
11. Chipper Jones - 17
12. Pete Rose - 10
13. John McGraw - 6
13. Scott Rolen - 6
13. Ray Dandridge - 6
16. Clete Boyer - 4
16. Edgar Martinez - 4
18. Stan Hack - 2
18. Harmon Killebrew - 2
18. Darrell Evans - 2
21. Judy Johnson - 1
Last edited by Bill Burgess; 05-14-2009 at 02:28 PM.
Power Users
Does anyone know his Relative Stats, or his home/away breakdown splits?
St. Louis Cardinals Fan
I said something to that effect a few months back and was met with a bunch of "your stupid" posts... so don't be shocked if you get the same response. However, I agree totally. Rolen has been very good offensively and he's uncanny defensively. And he's not that bad on the bases, either. I mean, that's a great combination at a position that historically isn't that deep.Originally Posted by DiMag4Life
Bleeding Cardinal Red since 1985
In the stands for every home playoff game since then -- 2006 and 2011 were well worth the wait!
Registered User
Home/Road splits:
Home: .286/.380/.503, 119 HR, 536 RBI, 193 2B, 20 3B, 455 Runs
Away: .281/.364/.510, 142 HR, 476 RBI, 187 2B, 12 3B, 499 Runs.
Hmm, no big fluctuation.
rock star
I like Rolen a lot, and always have, but he'd either have to have some far-and away-stellar seasons like Schmidt, Mathews, McGraw, or Brett, or else have the longevity to keep up his average till he gets 3,000 hits, or (again) else have another three or four verging-on-the-stellar years like 2004 to really be historically memorable to the casual fan (that includes the Hall of Fame-talk about casual fans...), and more than just a fond and talented memory to the rest of us.
Power Users
Thanks, JoeD. Do you have his at-bats, walks?
Are they stored somewhere online?
Bill
Registered User
Rolen's reputaion has been mared by injuries (in which he was abnmormaly slow to recover from) and a perception as not being a clubhouse player. I don't know how much of this is true, but he has been run out of town twice because he couldn't get along with ownership/management. A a poster has previously mentioed, he has never had a "huge" year, at least in the ilk of Brett, Schmidt, etc. and he has not had the durability/longevity to pile up numbers. That being said, I have no problem with him being in the same breath now as the Ceys, Nettles, Bandos, Elliots. I think he needs a couple of rebound years in Toronto to achieve HOF status.
As far as pluses that haven't been mentioned: He should have been the '06 WS MVP.
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CAWS Career Gauge
I think Scott Rolen would have to have a few VERY BIG seasons before he would move into the top ten third basemen of the century.
The NEWS HOF Gauge (based on win shares) has Rolen as only the #17 best third baseman.
1. Mike Schmidt 370
2. Eddie Mathews 362
3. George Brett 330
4. Wade Boggs 317
5. Ron Santo 287
6. Frank Baker 285
7. Chipper Jones 284
8. Darrell Evans 281
9. Brooks Robinson 274
10. Stan Hack 271
11. Sal Bando 259
12. Jimmy Collins 250
13. Heinie Groh 250
14. Bob Elliott 249
15. Graig Nettles 248
16. Ken Boyer 246
17. Scott Rolen 241
18. Pie Traynor 240
19. Ron Cey 237
20. Buddy Bell 233
If Ron Santo, Darrell Evans and Stan Hack are not in the Hall of Fame, there is no way that Scott Rolen deserves to be there.
Author of BASEBALL'S BEST: The TRUE Hall of Famers
Registered User
Sorry for leaving that out. His plate appearances home/road are 3189/3191, AB's 2719 home, 2779 road, 383 BB's at home, 335 on the road.
They can be found on BBRef, just above his seasonal stats where it says "splits", at least for post-1957 seasons.
Power Users
But don't you agree with the almost universal concensus that it is a gross injustice for Ron Santo to not be in the Hall of Fame?
Registered User
That's fine of course, but realize that Santo has 287 in 2243 games, which is 0.128 a game career, Rolen has 246 in 1505 games, 0.163 a game. Sure there's the decline possibility (it may have started already), but he's still 33, room for at least a few more solid years. Do you have their season-by-season Win Shares?
Last edited by DiMag4Life; 01-13-2008 at 02:52 PM.
Registered User
It's as much of a mystery as it is an injustice. If being the best bat/glove combo for a 3B of your day and the best in the game period for a few years won't do it, what will?
Remember, this is before Schmidte or Mullet came along.
Last edited by DiMag4Life; 01-13-2008 at 02:53 PM.
CAWS Career Gauge
Absolutely. According to the NEWS HOF Gauge, the ONLY position players who have obvious HOF numbers, have been eligible and are not in the Hall are:
36. Dick Allen 314
48. Tim Raines 304
56. Mark McGwire 298
62. Sherry Magee 293
71. Ron Santo 287
72. Bill Dahlen 286
77. Will Clark 285
83. Darrell Evans 281
As you can see, only Sherry Magee and Bill Dahlen have been passed over longer than Ron Santo.
Author of BASEBALL'S BEST: The TRUE Hall of Famers
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