Suburbs of Cooperstown Discussion Thread

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  • leecemark
    Registered User
    • Apr 2004
    • 20010

    #91
    --Paul, I agree Torre would be wasted at 3B. He hits well enough to be a first teamer, but his defense would be less than optimal. H e is a much better fit at C.
    --Allen and Perez is another story. They did play more 1B than 3B, but many of their best years came as thirdbasemen. They are not good defenders at 3B, but you may want to live with below average defense to get an extra bat in. Allen is arguably the best candidate at either first or third.
    --Evans and/or Leach can play regularly at third. Playing time would not be pro-rated by percent of real life playing time. Either of those 2 would be a good candidate to start at 3B, but probably not at their 2nd positions of 1B/CF.

    Comment

    • Chickazoola
      The Allentown Wonder
      • Aug 2007
      • 465

      #92
      I like the 12 hour clock with a reverse snake format.

      I want my team to be the Patent Leather Pants.

      I would also be ok with 10 teams. But I am concerned about the amount of pitching spots. I think it should be between 7-8, rather than 9-11. I just don't think there is enough depth.
      "It's good to be young and a Giant." - Larry Doyle

      Comment

      • Paul Wendt
        Registered User
        • Nov 2007
        • 5679

        #93
        So in keeping with the rules, a team may have Dick Allen and Pedro Guerrero and no primary thirdbaseman?
        Or even Allen and no one else on the roster who ever played thirdbase? (eg, two pure SS and two pure 2B to fill the infield slots; no C, 1B, or OF with time at 3B)

        If the answer is no, Allen may not be the only person on the roster with 3B experience. May he be the one listed as starting 3B? You mentioned special interest in the starting teams, who compose the roughly ten best players outside the Hall of Fame at every fielding position

        Comment

        • Paul Wendt
          Registered User
          • Nov 2007
          • 5679

          #94
          I see from these team names that you are all much too smart for me.

          Comment

          • J W
            Buck Showalter fanboy
            • Jan 2000
            • 5598

            #95
            Since we're going off of Diamond Mind, Allen will likely have a 3B rating same as Torre. I can tell you Allen will be a below-average to putrid defensive 3Bman based on our Classic Keeper League, which is near the end of the 1960s at the moment. Torre will probably be average to below-average... but that won't matter, his most valuable position will be catcher I'm sure.

            No player is set at any one position in Diamond Mind. You can even play people is places where they have no defensive rating whatsoever... but you do so at your own risk. (Frank Howard at second base? )
            http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploa...-showalter.gif

            Comment

            • J W
              Buck Showalter fanboy
              • Jan 2000
              • 5598

              #96
              Originally posted by Paul Wendt View Post
              As a historian rather than simulator, it seems to me that 3B has more deserving and borderline players than any other. Here are a dozen in chronological order:
              Sutton, Nash, Cross, Leach, Groh, Hack, Elliott, Boyer, Santo, Nettles, Evans, Bell
              I've been saying this for years. Third base is the scarcest position in the HOF. I think too much expectation is put on the position... people expect them to hit like first basemen and field the hot corner all the same. As we see from hitters like Allen and Perez, many times you can't have both.

              So, I completely agree Paul.
              http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploa...-showalter.gif

              Comment

              • J W
                Buck Showalter fanboy
                • Jan 2000
                • 5598

                #97
                Originally posted by Chickazoola View Post
                I like the 12 hour clock with a reverse snake format.

                I want my team to be the Patent Leather Pants.

                I would also be ok with 10 teams. But I am concerned about the amount of pitching spots. I think it should be between 7-8, rather than 9-11. I just don't think there is enough depth.
                12 hour, reverse snake is fine for a one-time draft I think.

                There will be enough depth for pitching... but seriously, this is where the Cooperstowners could run all over us. Especially in the pen. But our goal is to see how many of us can beat the Cronies and Good Ol' Boys, right? That's my goal anyways. (edit - I see the main goal is to identify the players... but I'm more interested in seeing how many teams finish ahead of the Cooperstowners than who precisely wins the league)

                Which is why I suggest we mandate three relievers:

                - Lefty
                - Righty
                - Closer (L/R)

                ...that will keep with the program setup. Even though it may end up better to plug starters in your relief roles, I say this is the way to go. We'd pretty much have the pick of the litter too, with only five relievers in the HOF. I think we can come up with 30 names beyond Eck, Fingers, Gossage, Sutter, and Wilhelm.

                And that's 30 less starting pitchers that need drafting. I suggest eight starting pitchers per team for a total of 11. That should carry through one season with no problem. It's also the same number that is on the Cronies & GOBs.

                Say Mark, is Cooperstown / Elysian Field doable? 100 park factor across the board? Would we need to make one for every team?
                Last edited by J W; 02-14-2008, 04:50 PM.
                http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploa...-showalter.gif

                Comment

                • J W
                  Buck Showalter fanboy
                  • Jan 2000
                  • 5598

                  #98
                  Originally posted by Freakshow View Post
                  The moniker, “Suburbs of Cooperstown” is great. Taking that a step further, you might consider naming the eight franchises after some of Cooperstown’s actual neighbors. These are the nearest towns I found in the vicinity, Cooperstown’s “suburbs”:
                  Taking a quick look at Google Earth I found some additional names. I'll put them in alphabetical order and name the ones that are taken:


                  Bowerstown
                  Brighton
                  Cattown - Grays
                  Chase
                  Cherry Valley
                  Clintonville
                  Deowongo Island
                  Elk Creek
                  Field Crossing
                  Five Points
                  Fly Creek - Appleseeds
                  Hartwick
                  Hyde Park
                  Index
                  Lentsville
                  Lidell Corners
                  Maple Valley - Cronies
                  Middlefield
                  Milford
                  Oaksville
                  Pail Shop Corners
                  Patent - Leather Pants
                  Phoenix Mills
                  Pierstown
                  Richfield Springs
                  Roseboom
                  Schuyler Lake
                  Scotch Hill - Tumblers
                  Snowdon
                  Springfield Center
                  Sunken Island - Treasure
                  Taylortown
                  Toddsville
                  Westford
                  Westville
                  Whig Corners - Good Old Boys
                  Wileytown
                  Also note we changed our name to the Sunken Island Treasure. It fits so well
                  Last edited by J W; 02-15-2008, 06:20 AM.
                  http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploa...-showalter.gif

                  Comment

                  • jalbright
                    Researcher/advocate/mod
                    • Mar 2005
                    • 23264

                    #99
                    Originally posted by J W View Post
                    12 hour, reverse snake is fine for a one-time draft I think.

                    There will be enough depth for pitching... but seriously, this is where the Cooperstowners could run all over us. Especially in the pen. But our goal is to see how many of us can beat the Cronies and Good Ol' Boys, right? That's my goal anyways. (edit - I see the main goal is to identify the players... but I'm more interested in seeing how many teams finish ahead of the Cooperstowners than who precisely wins the league)

                    Which is why I suggest we mandate three relievers:

                    - Lefty
                    - Righty
                    - Closer (L/R)

                    ...that will keep with the program setup. Even though it may end up better to plug starters in your relief roles, I say this is the way to go. We'd pretty much have the pick of the litter too, with only five relievers in the HOF. I think we can come up with 30 names beyond Eck, Fingers, Gossage, Sutter, and Wilhelm.

                    And that's 30 less starting pitchers that need drafting. I suggest eight starting pitchers per team for a total of 11. That should carry through one season with no problem. It's also the same number that is on the Cronies & GOBs.

                    Say Mark, is Cooperstown / Elysian Field doable? 100 park factor across the board? Would we need to make one for every team?
                    I don't like having a mandate to come up with 30 relievers. That goes way too deep IMO. Ten guys who finished games, absolutely. I'd also like the flexibility to go with as few as 9 pitchers if we choose. If we go to 11, in this setup we'll be picking guys who aren't likely to play unless a team has a rash of pitching injuries.
                    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                    Comment

                    • Chadwick
                      Chasing Cooperstown
                      • Sep 2002
                      • 16797

                      The Scotch Hill Tumblers for me, please.
                      "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                      "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                      "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                      "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                      Comment

                      • Freakshow
                        Registered User
                        • Jan 2000
                        • 7708

                        Originally posted by jalbright View Post
                        I don't like having a mandate to come up with 30 relievers. That goes way too deep IMO. Ten guys who finished games, absolutely. I'd also like the flexibility to go with as few as 9 pitchers if we choose. If we go to 11, in this setup we'll be picking guys who aren't likely to play unless a team has a rash of pitching injuries.
                        I agree, 11 pitchers is too many; 7 or 8 would be ideal. However, I believe Mark said we need at least 9 for the simulation to function correctly. If this is the case, we should mandate that every team have 9 pitchers, with an option for a 10th.

                        I also agree that 3 relievers is too many; we should mandate that every team have 1, with an option for a second one.
                        Si quaeris peninsulam amoenam, circumspice.

                        Comprehensive Reform for the Veterans Committee -- Fixing the Hall continued.

                        Comment

                        • leecemark
                          Registered User
                          • Apr 2004
                          • 20010

                          --Here is a possible alternative. How about we draft 200 players - 20 per team under the guideline of "best eligible players outside Cooperstown. Pick up your 14 position players, 5 starting pitchers and closer with those 20 picks. The extra 5 pitchers (or whatever combination of players you choose to use your extra 5 on) would not be considered residents of the Suburbs. They would just be roster filler for the purposes of playing the sim(s).

                          Comment

                          • leecemark
                            Registered User
                            • Apr 2004
                            • 20010

                            --I can put all the teams in a nuetral setting and call them whatever you like.

                            Comment

                            • Chadwick
                              Chasing Cooperstown
                              • Sep 2002
                              • 16797

                              Originally posted by leecemark View Post
                              --Only players currently eligible for the Hall of Fame will be eligible for this draft. Active players, players not yet retired for 5 years and banned players are not eligible.
                              Just so I understand, any player who is not enshrined in Cooperstown and is not on Organized Baseball's Ineligible List, but who last played no later than the 2002 season is eligible for the draft, right? Are negro leaguers included in this?
                              "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                              "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                              "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                              "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                              Comment

                              • leecemark
                                Registered User
                                • Apr 2004
                                • 20010

                                --That is correct and yes they are.

                                Comment

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