Mets sign Tony Armas Jr.

**NJMetfan4life** · 02-11-2008, 04:15 PM

http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/news/pre...=.jsp&c_id=nym

your thoughts?

**Dalkowski110** · 02-11-2008, 04:57 PM

Just another arm for AAA.

**Silver Blaze** · 02-11-2008, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by Dalkowski110

Just another arm for AAA.

We hope. He stunk it up for Pittsburgh, so I want no part of him wearing a Mets uniform any time during the season.

**Dalkowski110** · 02-11-2008, 05:06 PM

If I had to guess, you'll see Mike Pelfrey, Jason Vargas, Adam Bostick, and Nelson Figueroa before you see this guy.

**Ralph Zig Tyko** · 02-11-2008, 05:52 PM

Tony was so highly regarded, not all that long ago. He had some success for a while and there's a lot to be said for having a guy who knows what it takes.
GOOD SIGNING!

**Rotoprofessor** · 02-11-2008, 07:10 PM

I like the signing myself. He's a better pitcher then someone like Jose Lima, who the Mets have used recently as a spot starter. Do I want to see him in the rotation full-time? Absolutely not. Still, he has shown potential and maybe they can get lucky and catch lightning in a bottle. Omar has shown the ability to find guys in the past, like Darren Oliver, who people thought were washed up. Maybe Armas fills the same type of role and is the long man out of the pen. Only time will tell.

You can never have enough capable arms, so even if he is just used in AAA, it's worth having him around.

**Ralph Zig Tyko** · 02-11-2008, 10:14 PM

Terrific site, Rotoprofessor. I love that you rate my roto league catchers, Soto and Salty, so high.

**moebarguy** · 02-12-2008, 04:49 AM

I actually like the signing. Granted, Armas is no longer the same pitcher who was going to replace Pedro Martinez in the Expos rotation, but for a 30 year-old who can still throw in the low 90’s, he’s worth a flier. I also think he's better than our third-in-line replacement starters in the past (Jose Lima, Geremi Gonzalez, Brian Lawrence, etc...). But as Dalkowski said, it merely gives the Mets someone to eat innings at AAA.

Another interesting thing to look at his Armas’ stint as a reliever for the Pirates last season. Before you write him off by looking at his 5.06 ERA as a reliever, he also posted a 1.16 WHIP, a 2.02 Ctl (the league average is 3.3), and a 7.42 K/9 IP in 26.6 IP. I smell a Rick Peterson project…

**moebarguy** · 02-12-2008, 04:56 AM

Originally Posted by Ralph Zig Tyko

Terrific site, Rotoprofessor. I love that you rate my roto league catchers, Soto and Salty, so high.

Maybe a little too high. I think Salty is the real deal, but Soto really just had an uncharacteristically power-filled season in 2007 (25 total HR from 2001 to 2006, yet hit 29 between Triple-A and MLB in 2007). Michael Barrett should be on that list somewhere and Mike Napoli should get a little more respect than being on the "just missed list" (he has a nice HR ceiling, and had an intriguingly high OBP despite a dismal BA in 2007)...

**Mex4Prez** · 02-12-2008, 07:26 AM

If added to the 40-man roster, Armas would get a one-year contract paying $1 million while in the majors and $90,000 in the minors. He also could make $350,000 in performance bonuses if used as a reliever and $650,000 based on innings, starting with 130.

Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press

Looks as if they want to take a long hard look at him for the long man spot. A lot of people seem to have given that to Sosa by default, but the team feels he is better suited only facing the lineup once, which would make him a 1-2 inning MR.

In my opinion it looks as if Armas may be the favorite to win the long man job as of right now. With Sosa and Wise leading the pack to fill out the last MR spot(Mota's old innings). It could turn out that they both make the team if Duaner isn't ready to go.

A lot is being made that our bullpen is our teams "weak spot". I don't see how this is true. The main reason our pen was bad last year is that the starters couldn't give innings and it wore out the pen early. So much that at different points during the season, Feliciano/Wagner/Schoe all had to be shut down for a week at a time draining the rest of the pen even more. If Sanchez is healthy and pitches like he did in 06 then we may have one of the best pens in baseball. Even if not, we are still above average(not bad for a teams weakest spot).

**whoisonit** · 02-12-2008, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by NJMetfan4life

your thoughts?

I haven't been this excited since they signed Jose Lima.

**moebarguy** · 02-12-2008, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Mex4Prez

The main reason our pen was bad last year is that the starters couldn't give innings and it wore out the pen early. So much that at different points during the season, Feliciano/Wagner/Schoe all had to be shut down for a week at a time draining the rest of the pen even more.

I would put Heilman in there instead of Schoeneweis. But yes, since Wagner, Feliciano, and Heilman were over used, the Mets were forced to put Mota and Schoenweis into situations they should not have been in -- with Mota, it was men on base, and with Schoeneweis, it was against righties.

**whoisonit** · 02-12-2008, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by moebarguy

the Mets were forced to put Mota and Schoenweis into situations they should not have been in -- with Mota, it was men on base

No, with Mota, it was as a roster member.

**moebarguy** · 02-12-2008, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by whoisonit

No, with Mota, it was as a roster member.

Yes, that too...

**Dalkowski110** · 02-12-2008, 11:35 AM

"In my opinion it looks as if Armas may be the favorite to win the long man job as of right now. With Sosa and Wise leading the pack to fill out the last MR spot(Mota's old innings). It could turn out that they both make the team if Duaner isn't ready to go."

Nope. Both Wise and Sosa are signed to Major League contracts. Therefore, they automatically both make the team regardless (with Wise taking the Mota role and Sosa being the favorite for long reliever), barring a horrendous ST for one or both of them. Also, unless Sanchez isn't ready to come back, he's automatically guaranteed a Major League contract, too. The bullpen at the beginning of next year will look something like this...

LRP Jorge Sosa
LOOGY/MRP Scott Schoeneweis
MRP Matt Wise
MRP Duaner Sanchez
MRP Pedro Feliciano
SU Aaron Heilman
CL Billy Wagner

**Mex4Prez** · 02-12-2008, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Dalkowski110

Nope. Both Wise and Sosa are signed to Major League contracts. Therefore, they automatically both make the team regardless (with Wise taking the Mota role and Sosa being the favorite for long reliever), barring a horrendous ST for one or both of them. Also, unless Sanchez isn't ready to come back, he's automatically guaranteed a Major League contract, too. The bullpen at the beginning of next year will look something like this...

LRP Jorge Sosa
LOOGY/MRP Scott Schoeneweis
MRP Matt Wise
MRP Duaner Sanchez
MRP Pedro Feliciano
SU Aaron Heilman
CL Billy Wagner

Just for the record Tike Redman was traded for in 2005, didn't make the 2006 team and was released before opening day. Also Matt Wise has a clause written in his contract that states he only gets paid 750k if he gets released before opening day. That would make me think he is fighting for a job. He is far from automatic as you suggested.

**Dalkowski110** · 02-12-2008, 04:07 PM

"Just for the record Tike Redman was traded for in 2005, didn't make the 2006 team and was released before opening day."

Exactly. WE didn't sign Tike Redman to a Major League contract. He came with one. However, we signed Wise to an MLB contract on our own volition. Ditto to Sosa and Sanchez.

Unless Wise has a terrible ST, I'd consider him a veritable lock for the bullpen.

**Mex4Prez** · 02-12-2008, 04:15 PM

^Yup, just like Chan Ho Park was last year when we signed him to a ML contract to fill out the rotation

**Dalkowski110** · 02-12-2008, 04:16 PM

Did you even read this???

"Unless Wise has a terrible ST, I'd consider him a veritable lock for the bullpen."

You can't say with a straight face that Park had a good ST.

**Mex4Prez** · 02-12-2008, 05:05 PM

yes, and I also read this too....

Both Wise and Sosa are signed to Major League contracts. Therefore, they automatically both make the team regardless (with Wise taking the Mota role and Sosa being the favorite for long reliever), barring a horrendous ST for one or both of them.

The fact that Wise has it written in his contract that he will only make 750k if his is cut before opening day is a sure sign of a short leash. While I agree that both he and Sosa are favorites to make the team, I do not see it as being automatic like you. The Mets will pay the 750k if it means fielding the best team. It doesn't mean that Wise has to be THAT much worse then his competition.

It doesn't matter if Tike Redman was traded for or Chan Ho Park had a terrible spring. Your statement was that since Wise has a guaranteed contract that he would automatically be given a bullpen job. I gave you examples in recent history that disproved that theory. Those were 2 players who had guaranteed roster spots and played a combine 1 game for the team.

This is all I have to say, if you want to have the final statement then that is fine. I just know from your posting history where the topic goes after the "did you even read what I said" line. Not saying there is anything wrong with that, just not what I'm here to read. You can twist it any way you want, but Wise isn't a sure thing to make the team, even if he has only a poor, but not horrendous spring.

**The_Leff_Fielder** · 02-12-2008, 05:25 PM

I think this is a smart move by the Mets. As great as the Santana trade was, the one downside is it left the Mets without a lot of depth in their pitching staff. Pedro and El Duque are injury prone; what happens when they get hurt? There are options, but they're few and far between. Armas isn't going to put the Mets over the top for the National League, but it'll give them another option.

Besides, let's not forget another player who originally had high promise, was mishandled, didn't do well at first, then came to the Mets and was rejuvenated. His name is Oliver Perez. (Not to say that Armas will become Ollie, but you see what I'm saying.)

**JerseySoxFan19** · 02-12-2008, 05:28 PM

i'm a redsox fan, but with the success of guys like perez and maine, it's not crazy to think that New York's pitching coaches can help this guy to become a decent reliever or occasional starter

**Dalkowski110** · 02-12-2008, 06:24 PM

"Therefore, they automatically both make the team regardless (with Wise taking the Mota role and Sosa being the favorite for long reliever), barring a horrendous ST for one or both of them. "

Yes, you did read that, but I think you MISREAD it. Take out the parenthesis for a moment, since they're not relevant to the point of my sentence...now what does it say?

"Therefore, they automatically both make the team regardless, barring a horrendous ST for one or both of them."

Or, with emphasis added...

"Therefore, they automatically both make the team regardless, barring a horrendous ST for one or both of them."

I frankly don't think either of them will have a bad ST, considering Wise's problems are mental and not mechanical in nature and Sosa developed a third pitch (sorta...a two-seam fastball to augment his four-seamer and slider...if you watched the Caribbean Series where Sosa relieved for Tigres del Licey, you could see he was throwing it when behind in the count to generate some grounders). The only other pitcher who was given a guaranteed Major League contract was Duaner Sanchez, whose injury problems may give him a month or so in AAA while the Mets experiment with Armas, Joe Smith, Steve Register, Willie Collazo, Carlos Muniz, etc. (although Sanchez has gotten a lot of his lost velocity back and has movement on both his slider and changeup). But that's not the point.

My point was that that was basically exactly what I said in a subsequent post.

As for this...

"Those were 2 players who had guaranteed roster spots"

Redman's contract was inherited from another team and thus not guaranteed. The only way to get Park to sign at all was to give him an MLB contract that had more incentives than bugs in the average backyard, though few thought he'd make it.

**metssincekindergarten** · 02-13-2008, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by moebarguy

I smell a Rick Peterson project…

My thoughts exactly. If El Duque gets injured, either Pelfrey or Armas get the callup. Armas will probably get with The Jacket in ST, and get a tweak or two in his delivery . . .