Negro League Stats Encyclopedia

[Mischa]

For Negro Leaguers in Cuba:
Cuban Baseball: A Statistical History by Jorge Figueredo

Also see Gary Ashwill's research on some Cuban seasons at agatetype.typepad.com


For Mexico:
The Mexican League: Comprehensive Player Statistics by Pedro Luis Cisneros

I don't know where Puerto Rican stats are available

[jalbright]

There's also Who's Who in Cuban Baseball, also by Figueredo. As for Puerto Rico, I have a 1997 book published in Puerto Rico by Jose A. Crescioni Benitez, El Beisbol Profesional Boricua. Mischa's other two cites are spot on.

[KJOK]

Well, there's Cuba, Puerto Rico, Mexico, the California Winter League, and the Florida Hotels League. There's a decent resource for all but the last, though the one I've found for Puerto Rico is in Spanish. I'm guessing that these stats won't be reflected in the Negro Leagues Encyclopedia.

I'm almost certain it is only 'league' games, and will not include any of these, nor any 'interleague' games between top teams.

But that just means someone else can compile and publish those!

[Brian McKenna]

Sure, but limiting the book to numbers recorded in the top couple "strict" leagues is the same standard used for "white baseball" encyclopedias, right?

I'd say the problem isn't the definition, it's the actual gathering/verifying of the numbers that meet the definition.

There is no doubt verification and gathering are major problems. Any way things are defined or categorized we only get a limited picture. The forthcoming stats are important but they will only represent a fraction of the story. I will not be able to open the page to any one player - look at the listing and get a good understanding of his career. The transcient nature of black baseball is as yet unquantifiable and unqualifiable.

[Paul Wendt]

This concerns the prehistory of the so-called Stats Encyclopedia among other things.

: http://web.archive.org/web/200010300...2000_07_20.htm - NBHOFM pr retrieved from the Internet Archive
Press Release — July 20, 2000
Baseball Hall of Fame to Receive Funds from Major League Baseball to Implement African-American Baseball History Study

: http://web.archive.org/web/200106181...2001_02_19.htm - NBHOFM pr retrieved from the Internet Archive
Press Release — February 14, 2001
National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum Selects Research Team to Complete African-American Baseball History Study


NBHOFM Chairman Jane Forbes Clark described the fruit of the research project in a 2006 press conference about the election of 17 new members from the Negro Leagues.

: http://web.archive.org/web/200602281...06/060227b.htm - retrieved from the Internet Archive
Transcript of press conference — February 27, 2006
"Transcript of Negro Leagues, Pre-Negro leagues Special Election Results Announcement"

[White Knight]

So will it be out by Summer?

[KJOK]

So will it be out by Summer?

Sounds like that project is still held up, but competing project is coming online soon:

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...o-up-to-date/1

[White Knight]

Any yearly update? I really want this book.

[KJOK]

The data has been sent to baseball-reference.com, but apparently there are technical difficulties getting it online.

There's also still a potential encyclopedia deal, but nothing firm.

So we're still waiting.....

[jerseygary]

Regarding stats, in a month me and my co-author Scott Simkus will be releasing the second issue of our baseball journal called "21" and the issue is all on the 1933 Pittsburgh Crawfords. Scott's research is the absolute most comprehensive ever done on the Crawfords and I'm lucky to be part of something so groundbreaking. As you know Negro League records are tough, but with diligence and a lot of hard work, we can really get what is a real good record of their stats. Scott really does a great job putting the statistics he finds in perspective - vs minor league teams, vs top line black teams, vs semi-pros, etc. Most of the published Negro League stats bunch all this stuff together, giving outrageous numbers because the stats are not divided up by level of compitition. I have seen some of the recent "official" stats and I fear they fall into that category. Anyway, I hope someday a real good blackball stat book comes out, but I ain't holding my breath.

[TonyK]

Gary,

Looking forward to seeing your research. I group amatuer and semipro teams together for 1890's research simply because I don't know if a team was one or the other in some cases. I hope to compile how black players fared against major league teams in the 1800's.

Good Luck!


Tony

[jerseygary]

Tony, thanks but the research is all Scott's. While I wrote all the stories in the premier issue, in issue 2 I'm responsible for all the original illustrations of 18 of the players and the design of the book.

So you know first hand the problem of gauging the semi-pro and amateur competition levels. When you throw in a semi-pro team like the Bushwicks of Brooklyn you really have a quandry because many of those Bushwick teams were of major league quality despite their classification as semi-pro.

[Brian McKenna]

The distinction between amateur, semi-pro and pro can be a blur. Forget the fact that we don't know how they were compensated for the most part. Semi-pro clubs span a wide range - to as good or less than amateur teams to being able to compete on many levels with league-based professional clubs. And this can swing greatly by year. I just did a project on the Mountain Athletic Club, baseballhistoryblog.com. In 1900, they could compete with anyone on the field - defeated the Cincinnati Reds even. Beat the All-Nations and the Cuban Giants. To a lesser extent, they were tough in 1899. Other years, not so much. Another example is the 100s of clubs in Chicago during the first two decades of the 20th century - Logan Squares and others.

What is the distinction between semi-pro and pro clubs anyway? When does a semi-pro club become designated as pro - based on its record or # of future/past pro players? Are semi-pro club simply designated that way because they were not on a league in Organized Baseball, or other significant independent league? What about the black clubs outside the formal leagues, pro or semi-pro? My point is the destinction can be minimal and arbitrary.

[KJOK]

Someone already started a new thread, but let me finish this one and celebrate that:

IT'S HERE! (at least the beginning of it)


http://www.seamheads.com/NegroLgs/index.php