09 WBC venues, pools, and rules changes announced

[Rally Monkey]

I know the domincans named Alou as their manager, venezuela is deciding between luis sojo and alfredo perique, cuba higno velez is now the head of cuban baseball federation so I dont know if he will continue to manage the team directly.

I read today that Venezuela will pick Luis Sojo or Alfredo Perique as the team's field manager on July 31.

[quinnystar27]

i heard a rumor that south florida and maybe puerto rico might host the 2nd round and the semi/finals will be in california. Again this is not a news source but merely a rumor among people in the baseball industry

[SDL]

i heard a rumor that south florida and maybe puerto rico might host the 2nd round and the semi/finals will be in california. Again this is not a news source but merely a rumor among people in the baseball industry

I doubt S Florida will get any games because of the political situation between the USA & Cuba.

[Rally Monkey]

I doubt S Florida will get any games because of the political situation between the USA & Cuba.

Yeah, I'm sure the WBC wouldn't want Cuba to play in Miami in the second round. Too much political distraction. But that would only happen if South Florida hosts Pool 1 in the quarterfinals, and if Cuba advances from Pool B in the the opening round to Pool 1 in the next. And that wouldn't make any sense, since the other teams in Pool 1 will include the top two finishers from Pool A, the Asia pool located in Tokyo. Flying from Tokyo to Miami is asking a lot of these guys.

But that doesn't mean that Miami couldn't host the top four teams from Pool C and Pool D (likely to be the United States, Venezuela, Puerto Rico, and the Dominican Republic). Why would the political situation between the US and Cuba matter for those teams?

So, in short, I think you're wrong. If Miami doesn't get any games, politics won't be the reason why.

[Rally Monkey]

My money for the second round is on Petco Park in San Diego and (ahem) Dolphin Stadium in Miami (or wherever it is). But who knows?

Someone give me a prize. According to the LA Times, Dodger Stadium will host the semi-finals and finals of the 2009 WBC. And (as predicted here), San Diego and, yes, Miami have gotten the nod to host the second round games.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-...,7138708.story

The official announcement will come July 31.

[ShawnC]

QUOTE=Rally Monkey;1250857]Someone give me a prize. According to the LA Times, Dodger Stadium will host the semi-finals and finals of the 2009 WBC. And (as predicted here), San Diego and, yes, Miami have gotten the nod to host the second round games.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-...,7138708.story

The official announcement will come July 31.[/QUOTE]

How about a for a prize?

[Rally Monkey]

How about a for a prize?

I'll take whatever I can get.

Here's a link to an article at MLB.com that recaps the news. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Seems to me this pretty much confirms that San Diego and Miami (Dolphin Stadium) are the sites for the second round. It also adds that the second round will be a week before the semis- and finals. (No surprise there.) The article's worth a look for a pretty good round up of WBC news.

For anyone interested in my analysis of why it makes sense to hold part of the second round in Miami, see my earlier post here:

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showpo...0&postcount=61

I'd add to that the obvious fact that Florida is teeming with itinerant baseball fans that time of year who're checking out Grapefruit League action. So I'm sure there was a push from MLB owners to have at least some of the WBC games take place near spring training sites. That's what they did last time when opening rounds took place in Phoenix and Orlando. And a lot of the fans who saw those games were in town for spring training. Expect the same for Miami in 2009.

[USA09]

What does everyone expect to be covered during the press conference on the 31st? Obviously, they will be announcing venue information, but does anyone think they may announce the First Round match-ups? I know they have annouced the groups, but I'm hoping that they announce who is actually playing who to start the double elimintion mini-tournaments off.

[Rally Monkey]

What does everyone expect to be covered during the press conference on the 31st? Obviously, they will be announcing venue information, but does anyone think they may announce the First Round match-ups? I know they have annouced the groups, but I'm hoping that they announce who is actually playing who to start the double elimintion mini-tournaments off.

I have no idea when they'll announce the specific match-ups. But maybe not this month, when the attention will be on the new venues.

Having said that, I think I can predict the match-ups: I bet they'll seed Cuba, Japan, USA, and D.R. as the top four seeds. And it's easy to figure out the bottom seeds: China, Panama, Italy, and South Africa. I expect the top seeds will play the bottom seeds first in the first round, like this:

Pool A: Japan v. China; Korea v. Taiwan
Pool B: Cuba v. South Africa; Mexico v. Australia
Pool C: USA v. Italy; Venezuela v. Canada
Pool D: DR v. Panama; PR v. Netherlands

Assuming no upsets, this means that the bottom two teams in each pool will face elimination against the other in their second game of the tournament. And the top two teams will also face each other. The winner of the former game would go on to face the loser of the latter in another elimination match.

There will be a lot at stake in this format.

[ShawnC]

I have no idea when they'll announce the specific match-ups. But maybe not this month, when the attention will be on the new venues.

Having said that, I think I can predict the match-ups: I bet they'll seed Cuba, Japan, USA, and D.R. as the top four seeds. And it's easy to figure out the bottom seeds: China, Panama, Italy, and South Africa. I expect the top seeds will play the bottom seeds first in the first round, like this:

Pool A: Japan v. China; Korea v. Taiwan
Pool B: Cuba v. South Africa; Mexico v. Australia
Pool C: USA v. Italy; Venezuela v. Canada
Pool D: DR v. Panama; PR v. Netherlands

Assuming no upsets, this means that the bottom two teams in each pool will face elimination against the other in their second game of the tournament. And the top two teams will also face each other. The winner of the former game would go on to face the loser of the latter in another elimination match.

There will be a lot at stake in this format.

If that's the case then in all likelyhood Japan, Cuba and the DR will probably top their Pools. The USA, Canada or Venezeula may top Pool C (that should be an interesting pool) and Korea (with Taiwan having an outside chance), Mexico and PR should come out of their respective pools. Since the second round pools appear to have the same format as last time (Pool 1 would have winners and runners-up from Pools A and B while Pool 2 would have winners and runners-up from Pools C and D) then the Second round pools should look something like this, no? (assuming no major upsets):

Pool 1
Japan
Korea
Cuba
Mexico

Pool 2
Dominican Republic
Puerto Rico
USA/Canada/Venezuela (any 2 of the 3).

That's a shame in my opinion, as a crossing over from the First Round would have provided more varied match-ups. But at least the Semi-finals will be cross-overs.

[Rally Monkey]

That's a shame in my opinion, as a crossing over from the First Round would have provided more varied match-ups. But at least the Semi-finals will be cross-overs.

Your analysis seems right to me. With Venezuela, USA, and Canada all plausibly in the mix, Pool C comes pretty close to being a Pool of Death. No one can say that the WBC organizers have made it easy for Team USA. (On the other hand, they HAVE made it easy for Team Cuba.)

I disagree that cross-overs in the Second Round are necessary. As you'll recall, a Pool Championship game will be held for each of the opening round pools. That means that a first place and second place team will emerge from each pool. And that propbably means that each will be matched up with its opposite number in the first games of the Second Round pool. Assuming that your prediction above is correct, and that Japan and Cuba win Pools A and B, that would mean that Japan plays Mexico in their first game of the Second Round, and Cuba plays Korea. And if the first place teams win those games (which isn't unreasonable to predict), then Korea and Mexico would drop to the loser bracket and play the first elimination game. Cuba and Japan would stay in the winners bracket and play each other. Note that the match-ups so far have been these: Cuba v. Korea; Japan v. Mexico; and Mexico v. Korea. None of these teams have played each other before in the tournament.

Now here's where there can be some repeat matchups: The loser of the Japan-Cuba game would play the loser of the Korea-Mexico game. And that of course means that Japan could play Korea or Mexico play Cuba. But this would be different than the 2006 tournament because it would be an elimination game. Imagine the intensity of the Japan-Korea second round game in 2006. And now double it, because the loser goes home this time--not on to the semi-finals for a re-match, as before.

Cuba would play the winner of this game in a non-elimination Pool Championship game. If that winner is Korea, then this is another new match-up for the tournament. If it's Japan, then that'd be the second time they play in the pool. This redundancy in pool play, I admit, is the worst feature of the WBC's double elimination format.

An equally likely outcome would see Japan lose the winners bracket game and Mexico win the losers bracket game. Then there'd be a Japan-Mexico face-off for elimination (another new match-up for the tournament), and Cuba would meet the winner of that game in the Pool Championship game. Under this scenario, Cuba will automatically play a team it's played once before. Again, this redundant outcome is a flaw with the entire format.

Cross-overs for the second round would, indeed, make for more varied match-ups. But we'd lose the drama of possibly seeing first round rivals square off in elimination matches. And, moreover, there are pretty good odds that the match-ups in the Second Round of the tournament as it's now planned would be nearly as varied as a Second Round with cross-overs.

So I guess I don't think it's a real shame that the teams won't be crossing over in Round 2.

[ShawnC]

Your analysis seems right to me. With Venezuela, USA, and Canada all plausibly in the mix, Pool C comes pretty close to being a Pool of Death. No one can say that the WBC organizers have made it easy for Team USA. (On the other hand, they HAVE made it easy for Team Cuba.)

I disagree that cross-overs in the Second Round are necessary. As you'll recall, a Pool Championship game will be held for each of the opening round pools. That means that a first place and second place team will emerge from each pool. And that propbably means that each will be matched up with its opposite number in the first games of the Second Round pool. Assuming that your prediction above is correct, and that Japan and Cuba win Pools A and B, that would mean that Japan plays Mexico in their first game of the Second Round, and Cuba plays Korea. And if the first place teams win those games (which isn't unreasonable to predict), then Korea and Mexico would drop to the loser bracket and play the first elimination game. Cuba and Japan would stay in the winners bracket and play each other. Note that the match-ups so far have been these: Cuba v. Korea; Japan v. Mexico; and Mexico v. Korea. None of these teams have played each other before in the tournament.

Now here's where there can be some repeat matchups: The loser of the Japan-Cuba game would play the loser of the Korea-Mexico game. And that of course means that Japan could play Korea or Mexico play Cuba. But this would be different than the 2006 tournament because it would be an elimination game. Imagine the intensity of the Japan-Korea second round game in 2006. And now double it, because the loser goes home this time--not on to the semi-finals for a re-match, as before.

Cuba would play the winner of this game in a non-elimination Pool Championship game. If that winner is Korea, then this is another new match-up for the tournament. If it's Japan, then that'd be the second time they play in the pool. This redundancy in pool play, I admit, is the worst feature of the WBC's double elimination format.

An equally likely outcome would see Japan lose the winners bracket game and Mexico win the losers bracket game. Then there'd be a Japan-Mexico face-off for elimination (another new match-up for the tournament), and Cuba would meet the winner of that game in the Pool Championship game. Under this scenario, Cuba will automatically play a team it's played once before. Again, this redundant outcome is a flaw with the entire format.

Cross-overs for the second round would, indeed, make for more varied match-ups. But we'd lose the drama of possibly seeing first round rivals square off in elimination matches. And, moreover, there are pretty good odds that the match-ups in the Second Round of the tournament as it's now planned would be nearly as varied as a Second Round with cross-overs.

So I guess I don't think it's a real shame that the teams won't be crossing over in Round 2.

Good points. Since it isn't round-robin then rematches don't have to happen (or happen too often) as you demonstrated. And the intensity of a rematch that was also an elimination match would surely be off the scale.

By the way, if Cuba played Korea after Korea won the Japan-Korea elimination re-match then it wouldn't be a new match up (see sections in bold).

[Rally Monkey]

By the way, if Cuba played Korea after Korea won the Japan-Korea elimination re-match then it wouldn't be a new match up (see sections in bold).

Right. My bad. I can't believe anyone studied what I wrote close enough to pick up that error. But I'm glad that I managed to be somewhat persuasive.

I think I'm going to start a new thread for WBC predictions.

[ShawnC]

Right. My bad. I can't believe anyone studied what I wrote close enough to pick up that error. But I'm glad that I managed to be somewhat persuasive.

I think I'm going to start a new thread for WBC predictions.

Yes, well you managed to be persuasive because I studied what you wrote closely and visualized the games - then I noticed a rematch

[Unit312J]

When I get back from Beijing I will turn my focus to the WBC. I need to get some tickets for Mexico City, and then the rest will be in my back yard being that I live in San Diego. I wish the games were in Anaheim, home of my rocking and rolling beloved Angels, instead of San Diego or LA, but San Diego will sure allow me to save on gas money. There is also a potential to be in the dugout for a game or two if I decide to work O.T. instead of going to the game . I can't wait for these to start, but first things first...Let's get some Olympic baseball in, and there is also the Caribbean World Series in Mexicali too.

Have they released ticket information yet anywhere? I've not found it.

[Rally Monkey]

Today's article confirming what was reported here earlier: Dodger Stadium will host the semi-finals and finals, and PETCO Park and Dolphin Stadium get the second round games:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...=.jsp&c_id=mlb

The other news is that the second round has been scheduled for March 14-19.

For those of you disappointed that Dolphin Stadium got the nod, consider this: The Marlins spokesman in the story said that the team is looking forward "to becoming a regular World Baseball Classic destination once we move into our new ballpark in Miami." As you know, funding for the new ballpark is on hold pending the outcome of a lawsuit. Could it be that MLB is putting the WBC there next year so everyone around the world will notice how terrible Dolphin Stadium is--and that this will embarrass the hold-outs in South Florida to support the new stadium?

Just my conspiracy theory du jour. Enjoy the Olympics.

UPDATE: Here's more grist for my conspiracy theory: http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...=.jsp&c_id=mlb.

[cutchemist42]

Today's article confirming what was reported here earlier: Dodger Stadium will host the semi-finals and finals, and PETCO Park and Dolphin Stadium get the second round games:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...=.jsp&c_id=mlb

The other news is that the second round has been scheduled for March 14-19.

For those of you disappointed that Dolphin Stadium got the nod, consider this: The Marlins spokesman in the story said that the team is looking forward "to becoming a regular World Baseball Classic destination once we move into our new ballpark in Miami." As you know, funding for the new ballpark is on hold pending the outcome of a lawsuit. Could it be that MLB is putting the WBC there next year so everyone around the world will notice how terrible Dolphin Stadium is--and that this will embarrass the hold-outs in South Florida to support the new stadium?

Just my conspiracy theory du jour. Enjoy the Olympics.

UPDATE: Here's more grist for my conspiracy theory: http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...=.jsp&c_id=mlb.

I'm thinking you may be right....

This also disapoints because I would like to see more variation of where this tourney is held.

[Richard]

Well, at least I'll attend a game or two because I live just minutes from Dolphin Stadium.

[Rally Monkey]

This also disapoints because I would like to see more variation of where this tourney is held.

I should be clear: I think it's great that Miami's hosting a round. I just think Dolphin Stadium stinks. And I don't think much of Marlins fans.

Compared to its peer tournaments, I think the WBC has the most varied venues. The World Cups of soccer, rugby, and cricket are all held in one (or two) countries. The WBC is, of course, much more ambitious, with five host countries this time hosting games in seven different venues. And only one of those venues--Petco Park in San Diego--hosted games in 2006.

I think that's what makes this one of the most exciting international tournaments: lots of variety in venues, lots of diversity in the fans. And I hope WBC doesn't end up following the model of the other major tourneys and putting all of the games in one or two countries.

[SDL]

I should be clear: I think it's great that Miami's hosting a round. I just think Dolphin Stadium stinks. And I don't think much of Marlins fans.

Compared to its peer tournaments, I think the WBC has the most varied venues. The World Cups of soccer, rugby, and cricket are all held in one (or two) countries. The WBC is, of course, much more ambitious, with five host countries this time hosting games in seven different venues. And only one of those venues--Petco Park in San Diego--hosted games in 2006.

I think that's what makes this one of the most exciting international tournaments: lots of variety in venues, lots of diversity in the fans. And I hope WBC doesn't end up following the model of the other major tourneys and putting all of the games in one or two countries.

That is so not true!

I used to live in Ft. Lauderdale and I know for a fact that the Marlins have NO fans

[NewEnglandAmazins]

Does anyone think that the WBC final should be a Best of Three series?

[cutchemist42]

I should be clear: I think it's great that Miami's hosting a round. I just think Dolphin Stadium stinks. And I don't think much of Marlins fans.

Compared to its peer tournaments, I think the WBC has the most varied venues. The World Cups of soccer, rugby, and cricket are all held in one (or two) countries. The WBC is, of course, much more ambitious, with five host countries this time hosting games in seven different venues. And only one of those venues--Petco Park in San Diego--hosted games in 2006.

I think that's what makes this one of the most exciting international tournaments: lots of variety in venues, lots of diversity in the fans. And I hope WBC doesn't end up following the model of the other major tourneys and putting all of the games in one or two countries.

I'm just saying for say someone like me, a student, I might just barely be able to afford to fly to Toronto for the games. Then if Canada advanced I could easily say I wouldn't follow due to travel costs. I'm sure there might be Japanese/Koreans/Taiwanese that must feel the same way about flying from their countries to North America.

But maybe I'm feeling this way because I'm a poor student for the time being haha.

[Rally Monkey]

Uh oh. Looks like there's trouble on Team Venezuela:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseb...ubnt07.article

Maybe you should start forgetting about spending any of your savings on a plane ticket to Toronto...

By the way, the article mentions--and I've read elsewhere--that Venezuela has picked Luis Sojo to manage the 2009 team. According to the Sun-Times, Venezuelan major leaguers are mad that they weren't consulted. On the other hand, Sojo was quoted in Venezuelan newspapers that he expects all Venezuelan major leaguers to be on the team. I suppose we'll have to wait to see what happens next.

If Zambrano and Santana effectively boycott the tournament, it would be very bad.

[Pere]

And only one of those venues--Petco Park in San Diego--hosted games in 2006.

Aren't the Japan and Puerto Rico venues also the same?

[Pere]

If Zambrano and Santana effectively boycott the tournament, it would be very bad.

It would be bad for Venezuelan fans, sure, but I don't think it would really hurt the tournament. The 2006 event was a pretty smashing success despite the non-participation of many elite players; even with a "boycott" among a handful of Venezuelans, I am certain that the total talent level of the 2009 event (overall) will be higher still. Players who sit it out because of petty piques will probably regret that decision.