This pops up every year on my Yankee board. With some of us it seems a matter of semantics. But with the start he has had this year, I don't think there really is any question anymore. At least until Hughes comes around, he is our ace.
Registered User
This pops up every year on my Yankee board. With some of us it seems a matter of semantics. But with the start he has had this year, I don't think there really is any question anymore. At least until Hughes comes around, he is our ace.
Welcome back ARod. Hope you are a Yankee forever.
Phil Rizzuto-a Yankee forever.
Holy Cow
If there was any doubt, he has proven so far in this season that he is.
He is not a strike out pitcher, but does an ace need to be one?
Registered User
Some people seem to think so. But I agree with you.Originally Posted by Yankeebiscuitfan
Welcome back ARod. Hope you are a Yankee forever.
Phil Rizzuto-a Yankee forever.
Holy Cow
Moose!/Diehard Yankee fan
An absolutely thrilling start for Wang this year at 3-0 so I guess it is definitely safe to say he is the ace of the New York Yankees.
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You have my HOF vote and good luck in the future now that you have retired. Thanks for the wins you gave the Yanks from 2001-2008. Have an enjoyable retirement.
WIN METHOD supporter
Wang is not only the regular season ACE for the Yankees, Wang is the regular season ACE in all of baseball. No pitcher in MLB has won more games in the regular season over the past three plus years than Wang. Winning is what determines the best and the greatest. That, right now is Wang.
Just a Fool
A pitcher's record is not all telling as it is very team dependant. If Wang played on the Royals, do you think he'd have 38 wins in the past two years? Almost certainly not because he wouldn't get nearly as much run support.
Anyway, as I said in the season thread, Wang is the ace of the Yankees, but I still don't believe he's among the very elite in the game. His dreadful postseason is still very alive in my memory and this season is still very young, so I'm not getting too excited. If last night's game was played in most any other park, he may have give up 3 consecutive homeruns. So Fenway's generous right-center gap may have been the difference last night between a so-so performance and the perception of a great performance.
Wang is incorporating more offspeed pitches this year though, which I've said for a long time should help him get to a higher level by mixing things up and keep hitters more off balanced (rather than sitting on his low 90s sinker).
Registered User
A Yankee's Ace? Of course. But the best pitcher in all of baseball? absolutely not.
Registered User
He may be the best pitcher in baseball right now at the start of the season. But it is a small sample size and I do not claim that there are not others I would rather have. Halladay, Peavy, and Santana come to mind immediately.
The question is whether he is an ace. It seems that people here are saying yes.
Welcome back ARod. Hope you are a Yankee forever.
Phil Rizzuto-a Yankee forever.
Holy Cow
Registered User
So Sabathia's not an ace either then? That's like saying A-rod isn't a great hitter becuase of his poor post-seasons.
It seems to me like you're looking at the glass half-empty rather than half full. He didn't pitch in another park last night, he pitched in Fenway and threw a 2-hit gem. I don't see how Wang, who has been one of the most consistent pitchers in the MLB the past three seasons, can't be considered an ace, regardless of what team he pitches for.
Joba Rules
No, as long as he has low SO totals he can't be counted on. His dependancy on GB's result in dependancy on luck more than most pitchers. Yes, he is the best pitcher on the Yankees but ideally he would be a #2 pitcher. He has tried K'ing more guys this year (and last year more than the previous year) which is an excellent sign though and could take him to a new level.
Wins are team dependant. You can't win unless the team scores runs. Its obvious to anyone who`s watched a game of baseball.
Registered User
I have no idea how you got that from what DoubleX said. You must have assumed WAY too much.
Please, everyone, ignore the lunacy of the above post.
This is what happens when a lack of understanding of the game clouds judgments. His dependency on ground balls and the fact that he gets a lot of them proves he is very successful at what he does. As long as he is getting ground balls when he wants to and getting some Ks here and there, he is the ace of this Yankee rotation.
There have been players throughout history that did not K a lot of people and were still successful. If he keeps on getting those GBs and keeping his BB total low, expect long term success -- which will drive stat people that think they can explain everything (like they predicted Wang to have a bad 2007) nuts.
Just a Fool
How's the fact then that he has yet to finish higher than 8th in ERA+ (2006) and he wasn't in the top 10 in the AL last year, nor has he yet to finish in the top 10 in WHIP in his career. Wang is a very good and consistent pitcher, the ace of the Yankees to be sure, but he's not on among the elite and his high win totals are a product of being consistent and having the high powered Yankees offense behind him. If he pitched similarly but was on the Royals, he would not have won as much, perhaps not nearly as much. Take Gil Meche for example - Meche had a better ERA+, a better K:BB ratio, and almost identical WHIP to Wang last year, yet his record was just 9-13.
WIN METHOD supporter
All meaningless hogwash in my opinion. Pitchers get paid to win and Wang has won more games than any other pitcher in baseball over the past two plus years. Pitchers get into the HOF with wins or saves, no matter what their meaningless ERA or WHIP is, or who or where they played.
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WIN METHOD supporter
Great response in defense of your views. That is more fact, which trumps sarcasm yet again.
More than a cool name!
I don't want to have fourm that is dominated by an argument about WINMETHOD again! I like Wang he is doing good this year, but I dont have to be saved by the religion of WINMETHOD so I now responed to you with smiles
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History Mod
1) Wang is the Yankees ace
2) Having Wang as your ace is not an optimal way to go about winning a championship.
--Wang is a fine pitcher and would be an assett to any staff. He is going to win alot of games with the Yankees offense behind him. However, very few teams have won in the postseason without an ace better than Wang.
He the best Yankee pitcher.(so far)
You must pick battles that are small enough to win, but large enough to matter
Registered User
"His dreadful postseason is still very alive in my memory"
All I'm saying is that one or two appeareances should have no bearing on the decision... So, no, I don't think I assumed WAY too much.
Registered User
I don't think anyone would've won much with the Royals the past few years. You could also say that if another infield was behind him, his WHIP and ERA would be lower because of the extra groundballs that would get snagged. But he pitches where he does, and he does it extremely well.
The guy wins 19 games 2 years in a row (38-13 total over last 2 years), a career ERA+ of 121, has yet to lose a game this season, and we're debating if he's an ace?
No, he doesn't strike out a ton of hitters, but he is doing what a starting pitcher should be doing, he's winning a lot and losing few. He has yet to even lose 10 games in a season. What more do you want from him?
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WIN METHOD supporter
No where nor anyone in this thread brought up the WIN METHOD (the greatest tool in the world defining baseball talent) but you.I don't want to have fourm that is dominated by an argument about WINMETHOD again! I like Wang he is doing good this year, but I dont have to be saved by the religion of WINMETHOD so I now responed to you with smiles
WIN METHOD supporter
Amen to that sir. No doubt in the world that winning is what you want from your pitching staff. And winning the most makes you the best.
Registered User
This is the kind of discussion we get on my Yankee board. What is an ace? I think that is the key question in this discussion. I have come to the conclusion that different people have different opinions of what constitutes an ace. Personally, I agree with those who say yes.
Welcome back ARod. Hope you are a Yankee forever.
Phil Rizzuto-a Yankee forever.
Holy Cow
WIN METHOD supporter
You are right. Each individual will believe and follow what they wish to trust. But I try to look at things logically. No matter what a pitcher or pitching staffs individual or team stats are, what determines who wins the games is the W. The more W's the better you are.
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