Cookie-Cutter Thread

[Chevy114]

I grew up watching the Big Red Machine, at Riverfront Stadium, in the 70's. I never had a bad experience watching a game there. In fact, I loved going to games there, even after my dad moved our family to Indianapolis in the mid-80's. I have a fondness for cookie-cutters, because they were innovative and served a purpose, being multi-purpose (Which actually turned me on to stadium design, when I was a kid). I wouldn't say folks were "excited" about them though.



I think what the deal is there, is that massive amounts of tax dollars are being wasted. If people are going to foot the majority of a bill for a multi-million dollar facility, then it's more than reasonable to expect that facility to last more than a decade. The Pyramid Arena in Memphis was built in 1991 and only got about 13 years of good use, until the Tigers and Grizzlies moved to the FedEx Forum, in 2004. The Pyramid has been sitting empty ever since and the last I heard, they were considering turning it into a Bass Pro Shop.

Good to know people liked those cookie cutters! I agree with the tax money situation, even worse the bucs are still getting tax money for a stadium we opened 10 years ago. They built a beautiful practice facility with it, but I am not sure what else they are doing with that half cent sales tax money they still get.

[MontanaJim74]

Good to know people liked those cookie cutters! I agree with the tax money situation, even worse the bucs are still getting tax money for a stadium we opened 10 years ago. They built a beautiful practice facility with it, but I am not sure what else they are doing with that half cent sales tax money they still get.

add my name to the list of those who support cookie cutters. id gladly take watching a game in one of them in the 80's over todays ballparks which are filled with too many ads and gimmicks. and i really hate that stupid electronic ribbon that they have on the facing of the upper deck of every stadium today.

[Kentonio]

I have been to the Vet, Three Rivers, and RFK. Only Three Rivers I felt was nice..well taken care of, bright and cheery, and very enjoyable. I felt the Vet and RFK were dumps. Still happy I went and experienced all three.

[Cool Papa B.]

I grew in the 70's- a time when the cookie-cutter stadium was in style. My team-the yankees- didn't play in a cookie cutter stadium so I've never experienced watching a game in one. The biggest criticism that I've heard is that because the goal was to have at least two different sports using the facility, some sections of seating would be good for one sport and bad for the other. Is that true? I read somewhere that the Astrodome actually had a college basketball game there (UCLA vs. U. of Houston). I can't imagine watching a basketball game there.

And also, they all look so much alike. The nice thing about these new ballparks is that they all are different and stand out (at least most of them do)

[Cool Papa B.]

Would the MetroDome be considered a Cookie-Cutter stadium?

[Pelt]

I don't consider it a cookie-cutter. Just a different multi-purpose style.

[Kentonio]

The current stadiums, while all generally beautiful with awesome amenites and design, are all beginning to look the same to me. How much different is, say, Comerica (Tigers) than Citizens Bank (Phillies)?

[Cool Papa B.]

The current stadiums, while all generally beautiful with awesome amenites and design, are all beginning to look the same to me. How much different is, say, Comerica (Tigers) than Citizens Bank (Phillies)?

I agree some of the new ballparks are beginning to look alike thanks to the HOK monopoly on stadium design, but so many of them are unique and have a lot of character. Like New Yankee Stadium, Camden Yards, New Twins Ballpark. Also the new parks are so much more closer to the stadium and the players compared to the cookie cutters of yesteryear. Everyone is going back to the pre- 1970 ball parks. smaller, intimate and closer to the action.

[BombersRock]

The current stadiums, while all generally beautiful with awesome amenites and design, are all beginning to look the same to me. How much different is, say, Comerica (Tigers) than Citizens Bank (Phillies)?

Well, for one thing, Comerica is much more spread out than CBP. But I see your point, too many stadiums (New Yankee Stadium not included) are starting to look like the same HOK product.

[Kentonio]

Well, for one thing, Comerica is much more spread out than CBP. But I see your point, too many stadiums (New Yankee Stadium not included) are starting to look like the same HOK product.

Exactly.. thats what I meant.

[Dougman59]

I grew in the 70's- a time when the cookie-cutter stadium was in style. My team-the yankees- didn't play in a cookie cutter stadium so I've never experienced watching a game in one. The biggest criticism that I've heard is that because the goal was to have at least two different sports using the facility, some sections of seating would be good for one sport and bad for the other. Is that true? I read somewhere that the Astrodome actually had a college basketball game there (UCLA vs. U. of Houston). I can't imagine watching a basketball game there.

And also, they all look so much alike. The nice thing about these new ballparks is that they all are different and stand out (at least most of them do)

Yes the astrodome did have a basketball game. It was a very significant game at the time and I beleive it was nationally televisived during primetime hours. Good footage can be found on a HBO documentary about the UCLA
dynasty. Image however "courtside seats" about 100-150 feet away!

[Chevy114]

HOK builds stadiums the same because no one asks for anything different. The casual fan just ohhhh pretty I want one. We say nooooooo think of something original. The Rays wanted a cool stadium from HOK that didn't look HOKish, but funding fell through. So Im sure if your paying 500 million on a stadium your getting everything you want, the way you want.

[Chevy114]

Yes the astrodome did have a basketball game. It was a very significant game at the time and I beleive it was nationally televisived during primetime hours. Good footage can be found on a HBO documentary about the UCLA
dynasty. Image however "courtside seats" about 100-150 feet away!

I love how the crowd was so far away in that game that the players litterally couldn't hear the crowd until 5 seconds after the play had already happened. I think that was the first time people realized they needed temp. bleachers and a closer court.

[Cool Papa B.]

I was searching the internet, and I ran across the encyclopedic definition of the cookie cutter stadium. What do you guys think of this:

Cookie cutter stadiums are stadiums built primarily in the 1960s and 1970s in the United States, designed for use by multiple teams playing baseball, American football, and soccer. They have also been called "concrete donuts". Robert F. Kennedy Memorial Stadium, informally known as RFK Stadium (or just RFK), is a professional sports stadium in the United States. ... The 1960s decade refers to the years from January 1, 1960 to December 31, 1969, inclusive. ... The 1970s decade refers to the years from 1970 to 1979, inclusive. ... A view of the playing field at Busch Stadium II St. ... United States simply as football, is a competitive team sport that is both fast-paced and strategic. ... Look up Football in Wiktionary, the free dictionary. ... A chocolate-glazed doughnut A doughnut, or donut, is a deep-fried piece of dough or batter. ...


Most of these stadiums were open-air, but some were domed. Nearly all, at one time, had Astroturf playing surfaces. And they had a reputation for looking pretty much identical, like cookies from a cookie cutter. All exhibited a round (or rounded-square) grandstand design and similar field layouts. From the spectator standpoint, their circular nature made them ideal for none of the sports contained within them, due to having so many seats so far away from the action. It is fair to say that they "seemed like a good idea at the time", as most public comments about them were neutral at worst. It was a few years later, as their newness wore off, that the criticisms began to mount. During the 1990s and 2000s, they have been demolished one by one and replaced with "retro" style ballparks, which themselves have been criticized[1] for being clones of the original "retro" park, Camden Yards in Baltimore.

[Chevy114]

My issue with that defination is that cookie cutters don't seem like a good place to watch either football or baseball. At least the retro parks although simliar are a great place to watch baseball.

[Dodgeboy]

To me, a cookie-cutter would be a round(ish) stadium that was designed from the start for baseball and football. Moveable field-level seating, Jack-of all-trades, master of none.

"Classic" Cookie Cutters: RKF, Shea, Three Rivers, The Vet, The Murph, Riverfront, Fulton County, and Busch II, along with their domed brothers Astrodome, Kingdome, and Skydome.

Oakland Coliseum, Cleveland, and Baltimore weren't "true" cookie cutters, but were very large stadiums with enough room for any size/shape of sports field. In some ways they're worse, since even the field level seats had bad sightlines and were far from the action.

Baseball Stadiums modified/expanded for football: Angels Stadium and Candlestick Park. These were decent ballparks designed first and foremost for baseball, just enclosed and "beatin' with an ugly stick" for football. The Met sort of fits in here too.

Football Stadiums modified for baseball: Metrodome, Dolphin Stadium, and Mile High. These are designed first and foremost as good football stadiums, with the lower level seats on one sideline folding up to make room for the baseball outfield. The upper deck seats are closer to the field, but at a worse angle toward the infield, since they look straight ahead at the outfield.

[Cool Papa B.]

I hope one or two cookie-cutter stadiums are preserved and kept in use. Sort of the way some old style ballparks are still in use like Wrigley and Fenway. They can become a reminder of yesteryear; how the game was watch way back when.

[mrakbaseball]

.
Football Stadiums modified for baseball: Metrodome, Dolphin Stadium, and Mile High. These are designed first and foremost as good football stadiums, with the lower level seats on one sideline folding up to make room for the baseball outfield. The upper deck seats are closer to the field, but at a worse angle toward the infield, since they look straight ahead at the outfield.

Mile High Stadium began life in 1948 as minor league ballpark Bears Stadium.

[buckeyejim]

I remember that when the circular multi-purposed stadiums were opening up in the late '60's and early '70's, I thought that teams such as the Cubs, White Sox, Red Sox, Tigers and Orioles would eventually build stadiums similar to the ones in Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, St Louis and Philadelphia to become home to the baseball teams as well as the Bears, Patriots, Lions and Colts. The Lions moved into the Pontiac Silverdome in 1975.

I'm glad that the Cubs and Red Sox have decided to stay in their old parks so the young people who go to Wrigley Field and Fenway Park can see what the parks that have been torn down were like.

[RfkFedEx]

I'm glad that the Cubs and Red Sox have decided to stay in their old parks so the young people who go to Wrigley Field and Fenway Park can see what the parks that have been torn down were like.

I'm glad RFK is still standing so kids can go to soccer games and imagine what baseball and football were like in the cookie cutters.

[Pelt]

RFK was actually a pretty good baseball venue. I enjoyed every game that I attended.

[elpablo302]

I guess the Coliseum in Oakland somewhat qualifies as a cookie cutter...

[SvobodaIT]

It's sad how they ruined a good thing.

[Jorge]

I'd say Mount Davis ruined a so-so thing. The A's and their fans lost the view of the mountains and the bleacher section. Regardless, with or without Mount Davis, the sightlines for baseball at Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum were and are horrible. The lower tier infield seats are miles from the action and many face the wrong way. The seats on the upper levels are even worse. In a strange way, Mount Davis was a good thing for the A's. Hard as it has been for them to get support for a new ballpark, at least that football grandstand kills any arguments that the Coliseum is still a suitable Major League park when without it people might argue otherwise.

[threeyoda]

This is set up in NAME (TEAM, STATUS, REPLACEMENT BASEBALL and REPLACEMENT FOOTBALL) setup:

So the cookie cutter multipurpose stadiums are-

Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium (Braves, demo'd, Turner Field and Georgia Dome)
Busch Stadium (Cardinals, demo'd, Busch Stadium and Edward Jones Dome)
RFK Stadium (Nationals, closed for baseball, Nationals Park and FedEx Field)
Riverfront Stadium (Reds, demo'd, Great American Ballpark and Paul Brown Stadium)
Three Rivers Stadium (Pirates, demo'd, PNC Park and Heinz Field)
Shea Stadium (Mets, demo'd, Citi Field and Giants Stadium)
Veterans Stadium (Phillies, demo'd, Citizen's Bank Park and Lincoln Financial Field)
Oakland-Almeada County Coliseum (A's, open)

Dome mulitipurpose-

Astrodome (Astros, closed for baseball, Minute Maid Park and Reliant Stadium)
Kingdome (Mariners, demo'd, Safeco Field and Qwest Field)

Retractable Roof multipurpose-

Skydome (Blue Jays, open)

Football then baseball-

Qualcomm Stadium (Padres, closed for baseball, Petco Park)
Sun Life Stadium (Marlins, open until 2012, Marlins Ballpark)
Metrodome (Twins, closed for baseball, Target Field)
Exhibition Stadium (Blue Jays, demo'd, Skydome)

Baseball then football-

Anaheim Stadium (Angels, open)
Candlestick Stadium (Giants, closed for baseball, AT&T Park)
Mile High Stadium (Rockies, demo'd, Coors Field and Invesco Field at Mile High)

Only ones still open are for baseball are Anaheim Stadium, the Skydome, and Oakland Coliseum. Qualcomm, Candlestick, and the Metrodome are still used for football but not used in baseball. RFK is only used for soccer. The Astrodome is the only one not used for anything.