Should I or Shouldn't I? (Change his swing)

[Bryton]

Ok everyone. Here is the dilemma I am in with my son. And I guess it's not really a dilemma. I have been doing a lot of reading on here about rotational hitting, and that is the new style of hitting. First let me give you a little run down about my son. He is playing 12U travel. He just turned 13. He didn't start playing baseball till he was 11. This is his second year of travel ball. He is a really good hitter. He is currenlty hitting .493 in about 30 games with over 75 at bats. He had a 12 game hitting streak, and has hit safely in 17 of his last 18 games. I think of the 30 or so games he has only not had a hit in about 5. He has hit home runs, triples, doubles, etc.... He has only struck out 5 times so far. He has 23 walks, his on base percentage is well over .619, and his slugging % is .740 (I only know all this because I found a website that computes it all for you). Anyway, you can see where I'm going with this. So, again, I have done a lot of research lately on this rotational hitting and looked at a lot of videos, and see the difference with the tilt, and the drag of the back foot, and how the angle of the bat is different. Anyway, I am really afraid to change his swing at all with how well he has been hitting. I'm not saying he has a great swing by know means. I couldn't tell if he does or not, but he gets the job done none the less. I trust his coaches and they say his swing looks pretty good and he makes really good contact on a consistant basis. They believe in not striding so much, and they do kinda teach squishing the bug. I don't pretend to be a coach or hitting instructor, so please take a look at his swing and tell me if you think after the season I should look to change his swing to the rotational style. I know this was a long post, but I really appreciate all the expertise I can get on this. Please feel free to critique his swing. Thats the only way I can make him an even better hitter then he is now. Thanks.

P.S. Please take a look at his swing and let me know what you see. What corrections should I make? Should I look to change him to rotational hitting? Don't mind my little comment lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7cOli10nQ4

[Baseball gLove]

rotational is not new. He looks good to me. I saw a game clip in your other videos. If that was him, he needs to let the ball get deeper (closer) to him. He slowed down his swing because he was early. Keep hands inside and on top of the ball. I tell my kids short to it, long through it.

[Jake Patterson]

Ok everyone. Here is the dilemma I am in with my son. And I guess it's not really a dilemma. I have been doing a lot of reading on here about rotational hitting, and that is the new style of hitting.

Rotational hitting is not new. It's been around the game forever. We talk about it more as our understanding of the swing through high speed film and applying kinesiological principles gets better.

First let me give you a little run down about my son. He is playing 12U travel. He just turned 13. He didn't start playing baseball till he was 11. This is his second year of travel ball. He is a really good hitter. He is currently hitting .493 in about 30 games with over 75 at bats. He had a 12 game hitting streak, and has hit safely in 17 of his last 18 games. I think of the 30 or so games he has only not had a hit in about 5. He has hit home runs, triples, doubles, etc.... He has only struck out 5 times so far. He has 23 walks, his on base percentage is well over .619, and his slugging % is .740 (I only know all this because I found a website that computes it all for you). Anyway, you can see where I'm going with this. So, again, I have done a lot of research lately on this rotational hitting and looked at a lot of videos, and see the difference with the tilt, and the drag of the back foot, and how the angle of the bat is different. Anyway, I am really afraid to change his swing at all with how well he has been hitting. I'm not saying he has a great swing by know means. I couldn't tell if he does or not, but he gets the job done none the less. I trust his coaches and they say his swing looks pretty good and he makes really good contact on a consistent basis. They believe in not striding so much, and they do kinda teach squishing the bug. I don't pretend to be a coach or hitting instructor, so please take a look at his swing and tell me if you think after the season I should look to change his swing to the rotational style. I know this was a long post, but I really appreciate all the expertise I can get on this. Please feel free to critique his swing. That's the only way I can make him an even better hitter then he is now. Thanks.

If you search here at BBF you will find that many here agree success at one level does not always translate into success at the next. I would also offer that many dads and coaches are fooled by early success and do not take into account the differences between field sizes, bat types, and pitching capabilities. Many are flabbergasted when Jr. who hit .750 at 12 can't hit the proverbial broad side of the barn when they hit school ball. Teaching him proper mechanics at the expense of short-term numbers is the right thing to do if he hopes to play to HS and beyond.

P.S. Please take a look at his swing and let me know what you see. What corrections should I make? Should I look to change him to rotational hitting? Don't mind my little comment lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7cOli10nQ4

I see many of the same things we often talk about here when discussing the transitional hitters. Weight back, squish the bug, flat swing, etc., etc. His swing overall is very good for his age - his numbers support that. If you want him to be successful in HS+ however, I would suggest Steve's material if you and he are serious about making the transition. IMHO he will not have the same success at the next level if he does not change.

[Bryton]

Jake, I agree with everything you are saying. I am not blinded by his current numbers. And I was looking for what you said about him not having the same success at the next level. That is why I am seeking the advice now. I have already started him with the drop 3 bat, and just want to give him the best opportunity to succeed. I have no problem with honesty and constructive criticism of my son.
So Jake, what changes should I look to make to his swing? I have no idea on what or how to make those changes. I have no idea what to look for or what I am looking for. I am just a dad looking to try and make my son the best baseball player he wants to be. Should I wait until after the season to institute these changes? I need help with what changes I need to make? Please tell me what I need to do, or point me in the right direction please. Thanks for you comment. I appreciate it.

P.S, what is Steve's material and where do I find it?

[DerekD]

P.S, what is Steve's material and where do I find it?

Steve Englishbey

This is the Steve he's talking about. I was you a couple of months ago. I bought Steve's materials about a month ago and will start with my son after the season. Good luck.

[Bryton]

What materials of his did you buy? where do I get his material? Does it break the swing down from steps to incorporate to your hitter so that you yourself understand how to translate it to your hitter.

[TG Coach]

Your son looks like a fairly good size kid for a 12U player. He's also an older 12U player. In past years he would already be 13U. Some of his success may be due to his size and strength on the smaller field. If this is the case it's important for him to optimize his skills along the way. Otherwise other kids will catch up when they become bigger and stronger. Many younger age travel coaches don't look at the player's future. They don't want to mess with what works for the team now. Don't allow the coaches to let you fall into this trap.

[Bryton]

Yeah, he's not real tall for his age 5'2 and weighs 121. His home field is not on a smaller softball diamond that most teams play on. We play on a actuall all dirt size high school diamond. He hit's the ball pretty solid, but like the "traditional" swing, he does hit a lot of ground balls, as to where with the "rotational" swing, you try to hit it over the infield. My only problem, is I have no idea how to teach this swing to him except for maybe looking at video. But I am looking for something that is going to break down the "rotational" swing for me to show him and teach it to him. If anyone has or can point me in that direction, I would greatly appreciate it. I am looking for the material needed to work on this swing.

[Swing Coach]

Bryton,

I admire your interest in your son's hitting, especially since he is so successful right now. He is good...but is he good enough? I have analyzed hundreds of high school, college and minor league swings and he will have to make adjustments to be as successful when he reaches college. In summer ball and hs ball, he will get by with his nice relaxation, balance and hip rotation...all three great pieces to his swing. But if you notice in the clip that he hits a lot of wiffels on the ground and when a low ball comes in, he misses it. I bet you would agree that most of his outs are ground balls and that he has trouble in games with knee-high pitching. Right now, I am guessing he gets enough balls mid-up in the zone to blast. He has a really nice swing...but, he will have to learn how to get his bat to match the plane of the pitch much earlier. And the only way you do this is to keep reading and look for good drills. Teach him how to turn that back knee and drop the right shoulder to get the barrel on plane. The main Epstein (numbers or torque??) drill teaches this. He will start with the bat against his back shoulder pointing down, lean back and swing up through the ball. This is the middle part of a swing and once he has that down...he can move his hands to a normal position and his feet to a stride to balance and then an explosive rotation. With proper instruction, it would not take him long to learn this. If you have a mini dv tape of his game swings, you can send it to me and I will look it over and analyze it with mlb swings. PM me if you want this type of help

[Bryton]

Yes I have noticed that he does hit a lot of ground balls, and yes those are his primary outs, which leads me to the rotational hitting, which from everything I have seen and read and researched, is supposed to take the infield out play as much as possible. But I am here and there trying to figure out what is going to be best for my son, and this is where I am running into issues I guess. Everyone has an opinion, and how as a dad am I supposed to know which one to take and run with for my son. I guess in the end, only I can figure that out, but I have to go with what appears to be very successful at the next level, and after looking at a lot of video of MLB players, it appears that they seem to have a rotational type swing. But then again. Who am I but a dad lol. Again, I just need to figure out what is going to help him get to where he wants to go, because his dream is to go to the University of Texas to play ball. Whether he has the talent or ability to make it, I don't know, but I need to do everything I can to help him try and reach his dreams. Thanks for everyones help.

[Ursa Major]

This is an excellent core swing for this age level. The suggestions I would have are really around the edges -- more of a pre-load, a little more tilt, not straightening the front leg so soon, etc -- but it's hard to say because he's not using a real bat. And, has been noted, we haven't seen him try to hit lower pitches.

While I wouldn't try to make significant changes during the season if he's hitting as well as you say, I think that you can tinker with some issues without hurting him one whit because it can only help increase his power and get the bathead into the strike zone more quickly.

Steve's materials are available at Englishbey Hitting. Given where he is and your knowledgeability and desire to learn, I think his DVDs would be a good match.

[Chris O'Leary]

P.S. Please take a look at his swing and let me know what you see. What corrections should I make? Should I look to change him to rotational hitting? Don't mind my little comment lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7cOli10nQ4

I think his swing is solid, and mostly consistent with the major league pattern.

P.S. Be careful with rapid fire drills (which the video is on the edge of). I have seen them encourage top-down, arm-y swings. I want my guys to to take fewer, better-prepared swings rather than a ton of poor, top-down swings.

[Bryton]

Thanks Ursa, I appreciate yours and everyone elses. Comments.

We are heading to Cooperstown tomorrow for the 12 year old tournament there, and I am going to try and get a lot of game video of him, and when I get back, I will post it and let you guys analyze it for me lol. Thanks again, Sam

[Bryton]

Yeah Chris, I agree. The coaches are just trying to get swings in with all the boys before the games. They also do live pitching to them after the soft toss drill too. But I totally understand where you are coming from with that. That's why him and I work hard on our own with them drills to make sure his swing is the best that we can get it, and god knows I'm not a coach, so I'm just going with the flow.

[Rufus67]

Bryton
My only caution to you is to be careful with the "just a dad" comment. I think I'm in the same boat as you are (not much baseball playing experience, not much coaching experience) yet we want to give our kids the best instruction and information available. Your son is already more successful at the plate than mine is (11 years old) which was part of my motivation to helping him learn to swing correctly (along with his desire to hit better). You are perfectly capable of learning what you need to know and helping to instruct your son on how to hit rotationally. The guys here have given you a good resource with Steve Englishbey, while I went with Mike Epstein (trust me, you can search on either name and get loads spirited debate on the pros/cons of both).

The important thing isn't that you want to help your son hit like Albert Pujols. That's great, and fun to see happen, but it's better that you're doing something together with your son and working toward a goal. The best part about is with the proven techniques taught by Steve or Mike you'll see results as well. After you've done some research and instructing you'll find that you know more about hitting than the majority of coaches currently out there.

Enjoy the time together and realize that, even if you're not an expert like the regular posters here, you can learn and instruct the fundamentals of a rotational swing. The guys here are great and will help you with whatever question you may have regarding the instruction process.

[Bryton]

Rufus, I totally agree with what your saying about the dad thing. I was a pretty good baseball player in my younger days. The difference between today and yester year was, the the instruction I got was pretty slim and none. What I accomplished at the plate and in the field, was all my own doing. I know the game pretty well, but not the real intricacies of the swing. I know I can teach him, I'm not worried about that, I'm just trying to figure out what best to teach him, and that is where Im at a cross roads I guess. But we will figure it out together and with the help of the people on this forum which I greatly appreciate. Thanks to everyone. Sam

By the way, my son's name is "Bryton" which I use for the screen name. lol.

[hiddengem]

If you want him to be successful in HS+ however, I would suggest Steve's material if you and he are serious about making the transition. IMHO he will not have the same success at the next level if he does not change.

Common Jake..I think you can give a better effort than that.

[Jake Patterson]

Common Jake..I think you can give a better effort than that.

Effort? In what respect?

[callyjr]

Effort? In what respect?

meaning Steves material is not worknig at the next level. How about instead of endorsing a guru we just share drill ideas and offer help that way.

[Jake Patterson]

meaning Steve's material is not working at the next level. How about instead of endorsing a guru we just share drill ideas and offer help that way.

Cally, you and I have discussed this before and I have made it very clear to youth coaches coming here and those dads trying to help their sons get to the next level. I believe if coaches start with PCR and build from there hitters can be successful in HS. I feel the material Steve teaches and the drills Steve use are especially helpful to coaches trying to teach younger hitters. I feel all - Mankin, Yeager, Epstein, Williams, Dixon, etc. have a great deal to give, but Steve provides a learning model that allows allows coaches to view his material and then load their success on his site for reasonable comments from those who teach hitting. Others provide the same service, I have looked at them all...

After a bunch of years coaching school ball I wished I had a nickle for every dad who was dismayed with their son's performance at the school level and who cannot understand why their son's small field swing using high performance bats doesn't directly translate to success at 60/90. Those of us who have been around for awhile have heard this story over and over again. For the reason stated in above posts I feel this young man may be heading for the same disappointment. If you disagree, so be it, Recommend to Bryton what you feel would help.

Lastly, I do not consider what HG does for a living as "the next level" when trying to help dad's of 12/13 y/o's. It would be presumptuous of most of us to think we could help HG at his craft at his level.

[callyjr]

Cally, you and I have discussed this before and I have made it very clear to youth coaches coming here and those dads trying to help their sons get to the next level. I believe if coaches start with PCR and build from there hitters can be successful in HS. I feel the material Steve teaches and the drills Steve use are especially helpful to coaches trying to teach younger hitters. I feel all - Mankin, Yeager, Epstein, Williams, Dixon, etc. have a great deal to give, but Steve provides a learning model that allows allows coaches to view his material and then load their success on his site for reasonable comments from those who teach hitting. Others provide the same service, I have looked at them all...

After a bunch of years coaching school ball I wished I had a nickle for every dad who was dismayed with their son's performance at the school level and who cannot understand why their son's small field swing using high performance bats doesn't directly translate to success at 60/90. Those of us who have been around for awhile have heard this story over and over again. For the reason stated in above posts I feel this young man may be heading for the same disappointment. If you disagree so be it. Recommend to Bryton what you feel would help.

Lastly, I do not consider what HG does for a living as "the next level" when trying to help dad's of 12/13 y/o's. It would be presumptuous of most of us to think we could help HG at his craft at his level.

Thats not me talking Jake, its a pro saying it, he just didn't finish the sentence out of respect for you. I have the same respect, just simply wishing we could all just make suggestions without a guru attached to them. that away there is no need to discuss the gurus and then we simply continue to get better as a forum.

Cally

[Jake Patterson]

Thats not me talking Jake, its a pro saying it, he just didn't finish the sentence out of respect for you. I have the same respect, just simply wishing we could all just make suggestions without a guru attached to them. that away there is no need to discuss the gurus and then we simply continue to get better as a forum.

Cally

I don't disagree...

The problem we have in baseball is there is no clear understanding or definition of the terms we use to explain techniques, especially here where our ability to demonstrate is limited. Using a standard of sorts is the best way to communicate. When we speak of Marshall's pitching technique for instance, there is an accepted understanding of his techniques as their is a point of reference when we talk about Doc and his methods. Recommending a hitting instructor is no different.

Also, If you were to look at the swing as if we were starting from scratch with no knowledge of where to begin, I feel many of the current guru's teach basically the same concepts, with minor adjustments based on what they perceive to be happening, or needs to be happening at the highest levels. If you accept this (and I understand and accept that many don't) then it really becomes a matter of the mode in which we teach (or learn) and not the material. After exploring various modes I only recommend what seems to work best for me and for those I have advised in the past. I have never had anyone come back to me and said my advice wrt an overall hitting direction was wrong. They may be out there, if so, I have not heard from any.

I avoid the detail of many hitting discussions because many of the discussions become more about who knows more versus who can provide the help requested by those at the field struggling. We can bore the new coaches with our vast knowledge of the Major League pattern swing or set them on a path toward success, one that can help them help their players.

Giving them a direction that can truly help versus the minutia that only confuses seems to be what works best for those I teach. Just my very humble opinion.

[phantom]

i'd really like to hear the basics of a good swing for the next level.

i dont think i'd be bored.

thanks

[Jake Patterson]

i'd really like to hear the basics of a good swing for the next level.

i dont think i'd be bored.

thanks

This is where we get into trouble... What is your definition of the next level? It seems to be different for everyone here.

If you are really interested in the minutia search BBF ... there are thousands of posts that discuss the details.

[phantom]

In your opinion, do you think the mlb swing can be taught to a 12 year old? If it can, then there wont be any next level. He can just use that same swing as he gets older.

If it can't, then the search for the perfect swing continues.

I've yet to see anyone put down in basic terms and in stages from 1 to whenever, what takes place in mlb swing.

Thats my wish.