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Thread: Trade deadline

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigers527 View Post
    What's with this obsession with Clete? He has 9 RBI in 116 AB, and 2 of those 9 RBI's came with bases loaded walks. I could practically put a card board cut out of a batter in the box and get those 2 BB RBI. Yes, the average is nice, but the production is not good.

    Why keep Renteria? He's a club option FA in 2009 for 12M with a 3M buyout, I know it is pizza Mike's money therefore it is easy to spend. True he's been swinging the stick a little better lately, but I know I do not want him for 12M next year or have to pay 3M to be rid of him next year. To be fair, I think the Red Sox are on the line for some of that money?

    How many more games does keeping Pudge win us this season? If you answered more than 2, I guess keep him. That said, Pudge is a FA next season and the Tigers only tradable commodity (that wont hurt the current team much), so unless Pudge wants to sign an (slightly under valued) extension now, MOVE HIM.
    What is with you and your obsession with stats? Clete batted leadoff for a majority of his time with Detroit, so he won't have a lot of chances for RBIs. Also, he does have a good average and on-base percentage. Marcus Thames does not, yes he hits home runs, what is it 1 per every ten atbats? Of course, those other 9 are strike outs. I like Marcus but Clete is a 5 tool player.

    I think Renteria just won't get traded, I'm not saying I am for or against keeping him, I just don't think it will happen. Why? Nobody will want him. Boston has had him before, he didn't work out then, why would they want him now?

    If Pudge leaves who will be backing up Inge? Sardinha? No, Max St. Pierre? No. Skelton? I don't think so, not now anyways. I think Pudge with his defense is very valuable to the Tigers right now.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inge15 View Post
    What is with you and your obsession with stats? Clete batted leadoff for a majority of his time with Detroit, so he won't have a lot of chances for RBIs. Also, he does have a good average and on-base percentage. Marcus Thames does not, yes he hits home runs, what is it 1 per every ten atbats? Of course, those other 9 are strike outs. I like Marcus but Clete is a 5 tool player.
    First you only bat leadoff ONCE in a game, and yes maybe those guys before you in the line up don't give you much of a shot for RBI being all 7-9 and all, but you would think that means you should have more R than 7 having all the "studs" batting behind you. The RBI (9) and the R(7) are what I mean about production. How much of that BA is 2 out singles/doubles with empty bases, and how many of those outs were with RISP? Oh .190 with RISP overall...ahh that explains it.

    BTW why do you complain about my "obsession with stats" and then point to his AVG and OBP????

    Quote Originally Posted by Inge15
    I think Renteria just won't get traded, I'm not saying I am for or against keeping him, I just don't think it will happen. Why? Nobody will want him. Boston has had him before, he didn't work out then, why would they want him now?
    St Louis has looked at bringing him back..... Boston was only brought up as still POSSIBLY having to pay part of his salary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inge15
    If Pudge leaves who will be backing up Inge? Sardinha? No, Max St. Pierre? No. Skelton? I don't think so, not now anyways. I think Pudge with his defense is very valuable to the Tigers right now.
    You are right on that one, back up catcher has a huge drop off, so the team receiving Pudge not only gives up a MLB close to ready prospect but also a back up catcher, its a deal.
    Last edited by tigers527; 07-29-2008 at 10:03 PM.

  3. #28
    The thought of trading away still more young prospects leaves a bad taste -- either stand pat or trade Pudge and others to the Marlins for that lefty pitcher currently on the DL -- what's his name, Miller somebody?

  4. #29
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    Clete isn't exactly a "five-tool player", not even close. His AVG isn't that great (yet), he doesn't have much power at all, and he's not exactly a speed-burner on the basepaths. He had 30+ steals in Erie (AA ball), but was thrown out by those fantastic Double-A catchers 11 times. Five-tool guys usually have more success than that. Clete is a decent ballplayer, but will never be all that special and certainly will never be a five-tool guy. Granderson is the only one of those currently on the roster.
    "It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!" - Friedrich Nietzsche

    "I played the game long enough to know, and it is impossible for players - I don't care who they are - to hit 70 home runs. It just does not happen." - Hank Aaron

  5. #30
    The obvious thing about Clete is that he's loaded with intangibles; i.e., he knows how to play the game and what needs to be done in a situation. He will never hurt you and will more often help you win. Has he yet to make a bonehead play with the Tigers? There was one time I remember when he booted a ball in LF to allow a run -- that's it!

    Despite his "tools" or minor league stats, he's got a spot on my team any day.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by moldyoldie View Post
    The thought of trading away still more young prospects leaves a bad taste -- either stand pat or trade Pudge and others to the Marlins for that lefty pitcher currently on the DL -- what's his name, Miller somebody?
    Miller still can't throw a strike to save his life, and when he has it has been hit. I originally liked Miller, but I don't think he is very good. Face it, he has been getting killed by the national league.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by r@cosun View Post
    Clete isn't exactly a "five-tool player", not even close. His AVG isn't that great (yet), he doesn't have much power at all, and he's not exactly a speed-burner on the basepaths. He had 30+ steals in Erie (AA ball), but was thrown out by those fantastic Double-A catchers 11 times. Five-tool guys usually have more success than that. Clete is a decent ballplayer, but will never be all that special and certainly will never be a five-tool guy. Granderson is the only one of those currently on the roster.
    The reason he hasn't hit a lot of homeruns is because he would rather take a base hit to left than hit for power. He basically takes the same approach as Joe Mauer in Minnesota, I like that. However, they are trying to get him to hit for power in 2-0, 3-1 counts and stuff. He has power.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inge15 View Post
    The reason he hasn't hit a lot of homeruns is because he would rather take a base hit to left than hit for power. He basically takes the same approach as Joe Mauer in Minnesota, I like that. However, they are trying to get him to hit for power in 2-0, 3-1 counts and stuff. He has power.
    While I do like the intangibles that Clete Thomas brings to a ballclub, I just don't see him having an overly productive career at the big league level. He plays solid defense, which is why Leyland brought him from Lakeland to Detroit this spring. He's a hustle-type guy, which is good for any team, and he's a very hard worker. If he does indeed have power, it's very well hidden. He's never hit for power or much of an average at any level he's played at. Comparing him to Joe Mauer is not fair to either player. Yeah, perhaps Mauer could sock 30-40 homers if he gave up 20 to 30 points on his batting average, but that would still leave him around a .290 to .300 hitter. If Clete decided to go for power over average, he'd possibly have 20-25 homers with a .250 to at most .270 average. It would thus be more reasonable to compare Clete to your buddy, Brandon Inge.
    "It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!" - Friedrich Nietzsche

    "I played the game long enough to know, and it is impossible for players - I don't care who they are - to hit 70 home runs. It just does not happen." - Hank Aaron

  9. #34
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    Getting back to the trade deadline, the Tigers have been looking into the RP market, which was already a well-known fact. Some of the names that they have been rumored to be interested in are Baltimore's George Sherrill, the Rangers' Eddie Guardado, and the Mets' Scott Schoeneweis. However, with the state of bullpens across MLB and the numerous teams looking to add to them, the price of RP's is pretty high, and possibly too high for the Tigers.

    Sherrill reminds me of Kyle Farnsworth or Fernando Rodney. There's some heat there, but also too much inconsistency. Guardado is old and well-used, kind of similar to a Jose Mesa. We don't need another one of those.
    Last edited by r@cosun; 07-30-2008 at 10:58 AM.
    "It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!" - Friedrich Nietzsche

    "I played the game long enough to know, and it is impossible for players - I don't care who they are - to hit 70 home runs. It just does not happen." - Hank Aaron

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by r@cosun View Post
    Getting back to the trade deadline, the Tigers have been looking into the RP market, which was already a well-known fact. Some of the names that they have been rumored to be interested in are Baltimore's George Sherrill, the Rangers' Eddie Guardado, and the Mets' Scott Schoeneweis. However, with the state of bullpens across MLB and the numerous teams looking to add to them, the price of RP's is pretty high, and possibly too high for the Tigers.

    Sherrill reminds me of Kyle Farnsworth or Fernando Rodney. There's some heat there, but also too much inconsistency. Guardado is old and well-used, kind of similar to a Jose Mesa. We don't need another one of those.
    I have heard that they are looking into a lefty from San Francisco. Forgot his name, but he has alright numbers.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inge15 View Post
    I have heard that they are looking into a lefty from San Francisco. Forgot his name, but he has alright numbers.
    I think you are refering to Jack Taschner. He is a pretty decent lefty reliever.

    Stats: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/player...?playerId=6314

  12. #37
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    Taschner, from what I've read, is being priced pretty high by the Giants. Alot of teams have already inquired about him, but left empty-handed after scoffing at the return demands.
    "It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!" - Friedrich Nietzsche

    "I played the game long enough to know, and it is impossible for players - I don't care who they are - to hit 70 home runs. It just does not happen." - Hank Aaron

  13. #38
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    The next move, Tigers pick up Chad Moeller or Jose Molina which ever one is released to be back up catcher?

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigers527 View Post
    The next move, Tigers pick up Chad Moeller or Jose Molina which ever one is released to be back up catcher?
    I wouldn't think so, probably Sardinha or St. Pierre.

    I miss Rabello.

  15. #40
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    Of course that moron Mike Valenti is getting a tip drip at the thought of trading Maggs next on 97.1 right now. I swear to god he's almost as bad as Rob Parker when it comes to the Tigers.

    If I were Jones, Thames, Maggs or Renterķa right now I wouldn't get too comfortable for the next 24 hours.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    .If I were Jones, Thames, Maggs or Renterķa right now I wouldn't get too comfortable for the next 24 hours.
    Maggs aint going anywhere, but Jones better get his bags packed (possibly for good).

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigers527 View Post
    Maggs aint going anywhere, but Jones better get his bags packed (possibly for good).
    I would have agreed with you five hours ago, but now I'm not so sure. Dombrowski is throwing in the towel and who knows how he'll blow up this team by 3 pm tomorrow.


  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    I would have agreed with you five hours ago, but now I'm not so sure. Dombrowski is throwing in the towel and who knows how he'll blow up this team by 3 pm tomorrow.

    If Dombrowski is "throwing in the towel" he would have traded Pudge for minor league talent, not a potential closer that can actually MISS players bats (I wonder what it's like to root for a team with a closer like that?).

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    I would have agreed with you five hours ago, but now I'm not so sure. Dombrowski is throwing in the towel and who knows how he'll blow up this team by 3 pm tomorrow.

    Is this really that bad of a trade for the Tigers? Pudge was going to be gone after this season anyway. I dislike Farnsworth, but he will improve the bullpen.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigers527 View Post
    If Dombrowski is "throwing in the towel" he would have traded Pudge for minor league talent, not a potential closer that can actually MISS players bats (I wonder what it's like to root for a team with a closer like that?).
    I don't understand how you could see this trade any other way than basically giving up on this season. And as far as getting prospects for him, what team was offering any? Have we ever heard about what the Marlins were willing to offer for Pudge? I'm willing to bet this is the best they could get for him.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    I don't understand how you could see this trade any other way than basically giving up on this season. And as far as getting prospects for him, what team was offering any? Have we ever heard about what the Marlins were willing to offer for Pudge? I'm willing to bet this is the best they could get for him.
    How is losing Pudge really going to hurt the Tigers' chances this season? Sure he is hitting .295, but he only has 32 RBI. He is a singles hitter. As for "handling the pitching staff well" does Inge not do this? He has handled pitchers well, remember that Armando near perfect game?

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by slugger33 View Post
    How is losing Pudge really going to hurt the Tigers' chances this season? Sure he is hitting .295, but he only has 32 RBI. He is a singles hitter. As for "handling the pitching staff well" does Inge not do this? He has handled pitchers well, remember that Armando near perfect game?
    And the only complete game on the season for Detroit pitching.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by slugger33 View Post
    Is this really that bad of a trade for the Tigers? Pudge was going to be gone after this season anyway. I dislike Farnsworth, but he will improve the bullpen.
    What I don't understand is Inge wasn't good enough to be our #1 catcher when we signed Pudge, but now all of a sudden he is? What has changed, besides the fact that the Tigers are in third and can't seem to get above .500 for more than a few games?

    They can spin this however they want but this reeks of giving up without admitting it. Christ, look at the post game interview with one of the Indians players a few nights ago. He said "you never know, we could get back in it". Really? If they won't admit it's over for them this season why would the Tigers?

    I would have resigned Pudge and moved someone like Thames while his value is fairly high. Didn't the Tigers learn anything from Monroe and the '06-'07 offseason? They should have moved him them and got all they could while his stock was at it's peak.

    But hey, I understand why people would be happy with this trade. I don't see it that way myself, but that's just me.


  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by slugger33 View Post
    How is losing Pudge really going to hurt the Tigers' chances this season? Sure he is hitting .295, but he only has 32 RBI. He is a singles hitter. As for "handling the pitching staff well" does Inge not do this? He has handled pitchers well, remember that Armando near perfect game?
    If you are honestly telling me you'd rather go into a playoff race with Inge as your #1 catcher rather than Pudge I can't understand that. And yeah I remember the Armando game, same as I remember the no hitter Pudge caught last year.

    Look, bottom line is he's gone. I'm just venting because I don't agree with the trade and I really don't care for Farnsworth. The only time he ever pitched up to his potential was for half a season with us, the rest of the time he's been on the verge of being a gas can.

    But hey, if someone from KC rushes the mound at least we know he can handle himself.


  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    What I don't understand is Inge wasn't good enough to be our #1 catcher when we signed Pudge, but now all of a sudden he is? What has changed, besides the fact that the Tigers are in third and can't seem to get above .500 for more than a few games?
    Really, you really don't know "what has changed"? How about IT'S 5 YEARS LATER and Pudge stopped doing the roids and got 5 years older. If we were talking about 2004 Pudge there is no way he gets traded or at least not for just Farnsworth.

    I am not thrilled with the trade but I understand it. I would have liked getting Jesus Montero and David Robertson from the Yankees for Pudge. But that would not help the team very much this season, Farnsworth will help the Tigers this season.

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