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Thread: Virtual Olympic Congress

  1. #1
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    Virtual Olympic Congress

    A few months ago the IBAF website invited all baseball fans to submit a pro-baseball contribution(s) to the Virtual Olympic Congress. It’s time to contribute some of those great ideas. The more folks like us submit our ideas; the more likely baseball will be mentioned at this event. Baseball-Fever’s International forum is the perfect place to get good representation. The deadline is December 31, 2008.

    Register at: http://www.2009congress.olympic.org/...s/default.aspx

    Over the last 10 years, the digital revolution has radically transformed access to information and methods of communication. New technology has enabled many people to circulate their ideas more freely and easily.
    This is the vocation of the virtual Olympic Congress, the first stage of a process leading us to the Olympic Congress, which will be held in Copenhagen from 3 to 5 October 2009.

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    I have had a request to make this thread sticky until year's end. Is there any support beyond the person making the request for this to be done? Please let me know here or by PM. Thank you.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  3. #3
    Trying to talk sense into IOC people is probably futile, but what the hell ... I'll second the request.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Agente Libre View Post
    Trying to talk sense into IOC people is probably futile, but what the hell ... I'll second the request.
    Agreed....and Agreed.

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    I'll give it another day, but if there's no opposition, this will be good enough for me to honor the request. Speak now, or don't complain that it's stickied later.

    That said, if there aren't some posts other than about the stickying request in the next week or so, I might not keep it stickied.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  6. #6
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    My bad, I found the invite on the IBAF website, but it was Mister Baseball that took the initiative.

    http://www.ibaf.tv/index.php?option=...=125&Itemid=72
    The popular European baseball site, Mister Baseball, has encouraged baseball fans to use the opportunity to write to the Committee and ask for the reinstatement of baseball and softball at future Olympics Summer Games. The two sports are slated to be dropped after the 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing.

    According to the Virtual Olympic Congress site, the general public are invited to contribute from now until 31 December 2008. The aim of the virtual Olympic Congress is to collect a maximum of contributions from the Olympic family. All written contributions will be read by the Congress Editorial Committee, which will determine the main tendencies coming from the contributions. The principal recommendations will then be discussed at the Olympic Congress in Copenhagen.

    To participate, members of the public must register through a link on Virtual Congress home page. Once a registration is validated, an individual can submit two contributions, which will be taken into account in 2009 in the framework of statistical trend analyses after the contribution collection phase. The main trends in the texts coming from the general public will be communicated on the IOC web site in 2009, on a date to be confirmed.

    The Congress Secretariat recommends that contributors read the Congress Regulations, the Call for Contributions and the Extranet General Conditions of Use attentively.

  7. #7
    So this is the place to put suggestions for getting BB and SB back in the Olympic Games for 2016 and beyond?

    Well if so, I would suggest that the ridiculous rules implemented by the IBAF for over time (as detailed in the "reason why the IBAF is a joke" thread) should be scrapped in favour of extra innings or simply ties. If extra innings make the individual games too long, then perhaps they should start out with abbreviated innings (6 possibly) to begin with.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ShawnC View Post
    So this is the place to put suggestions for getting BB and SB back in the Olympic Games for 2016 and beyond?

    Well if so, I would suggest that the ridiculous rules implemented by the IBAF for over time (as detailed in the "reason why the IBAF is a joke" thread) should be scrapped in favour of extra innings or simply ties. If extra innings make the individual games too long, then perhaps they should start out with abbreviated innings (6 possibly) to begin with.
    Olympic team sport tournaments finish with some knockout rounds, 2 to 8 teams afaik.
    Where a winner is necessary, the most extreme position against "non-baseball" resolution I can imagine is that a 9-inning tie goes to the last team to hold the lead after a full inning. That could be implemented after 10 or any greater number of innings.
    In other words, a team that trails in late innings must take the lead in 9 or some set number of innings.

    Unfortunately even that radical resolution will not resolve all ties. In highest-level softball as women recently play it, 0-0 is not even a rare event.

  9. #9
    Next door there is some discussion of baseball-softball federation.
    That is mainly in page 4 of ". . . MLB players in Olympics". For a little more, go back to page 3, #71.

    Federation is likely to be more help than hurt, given the "reality" (how real is it?) that men compete at baseball, women at softball.

    In the USA women's baseball is growing again, for this generation, schoolgirls in the 1990s and 2000s. If competitive women's baseball is significant in numerous Olympic nations, that will be a great obstacle; maybe even the re-growth here in the USA will be an insurmountable obstacle. Because women's baseball and women's softball are rival games and institutions.

    Ideally, it is easy for an outsider to say, there should be one federation covering baseball and softball, period, which would internally make the decision whether to hold Olympic-level competition in which varieties. Just as the track and field sports authorities decide internally whether to have 3000-km steeplechase for men, 3000-km flat race on the track for women. (I don't know how much that is loosely regulated at a higher level.)

    Practically there will be obstacles and baseball-softball federation may even be impossible. But federation should be explored. In my opinion the exploration of baseball-softball federation should be a high priority.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Wendt View Post
    Next door there is some discussion of baseball-softball federation.
    That is mainly in page 4 of ". . . MLB players in Olympics". For a little more, go back to page 3, #71.

    Federation is likely to be more help than hurt, given the "reality" (how real is it?) that men compete at baseball, women at softball.

    In the USA women's baseball is growing again, for this generation, schoolgirls in the 1990s and 2000s. If competitive women's baseball is significant in numerous Olympic nations, that will be a great obstacle; maybe even the re-growth here in the USA will be an insurmountable obstacle. Because women's baseball and women's softball are rival games and institutions.

    Ideally, it is easy for an outsider to say, there should be one federation covering baseball and softball, period, which would internally make the decision whether to hold Olympic-level competition in which varieties. Just as the track and field sports authorities decide internally whether to have 3000-km steeplechase for men, 3000-km flat race on the track for women. (I don't know how much that is loosely regulated at a higher level.)

    Practically there will be obstacles and baseball-softball federation may even be impossible. But federation should be explored. In my opinion the exploration of baseball-softball federation should be a high priority.
    Going to the extreme they could always do away with softball (since the original purpose of "indoor baseball" is no longer necessary) and incorporate some of it's rules into baseball - for instance underarm pitching. Wonder how that would affect pitchers and batters, if pitchers can choose to pitch overarm or underarm?

    Unlikely to happen and not sure if I would agree with it, but it was just a more extreme thought.

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    Baseball still hopeful of spot at London 2012


  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by NewEnglandAmazins View Post
    March 16, evidently soon after
    IBAF President Harvey "Schiller was in Beijing for the first major league games to be played in China at the weekend"
    >>
    Schiller said the IBAF was campaigning hard for the sport to be restored to the Olympics when the schedule for the 2016 Games was considered next year and, if successful, would lobby hard for a place in London too.
    <<
    --probably as a non-medal sport subsidized by the baseballists

    Squash (racquets) is also hopeful for 2016. Maybe for public consumption every contender is hopeful.

    Squash has softball and hardball siblings. Racketball is a cousin.
    Internationally there may be more latent support for "indoor racket sports" than for any one alone but . . .
    some of the obstacles replicate baseball & softball, some not

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    What the heck...I gunned for the 2012 games. What's the worst that can happen? Here are some highlights from my presentation.

    International Baseball should not be punished because MLB refuses to interrupt its season for the Olympic Games. That is no different than AC Milan denying Kaká (2007 FIFA Player of the Year) permission to play for Brazil in the 2008 Beijing Olympics Football tournament.
    An Alternative:
    Proposal for revising the Olympic Baseball Tournament:

    Set an Age Limit:
    • Follow the Olympic Football model and make the event Under 23 years of age plus three older players. The additional three players would help underdeveloped baseball programs keep older players on their rosters. MLB would be more likely to interrupt its Minor Leagues for the Olympics and the Tournament can be promoted as a premier event for young star players.

    Venue:

    • Build a temporary baseball field (Example: Wukesong Baseball Field in Beijing 2008)
    • Temporarily convert a Football pitch or a Cricket field for baseball.
    • The British Baseball Federation 2007 champions are the London Mets, maybe their field can be upgraded.
    • Hold the tournament outside of London preferably in England, much like the Equestrian competitions will not actually be held at the Beijing Games (they will be held in Hong Kong).
    Inspiration from the 2009 WBC format
    Change Tournament Format:

    The current format has eight teams competing in 32 games; my proposed format also has eight teams, but they will only compete in 16 games. Below is a Double Elimination format with a seventh Place game to guarantee at least three games for every team. A fifth place game is optional.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by NewEnglandAmazins; 08-15-2008 at 11:20 AM.

  14. #14
    Nice proposal Amazins.

    Although I must say that Kaká not being released for the Olympics is not really comparable to the MLB not releasing major players. Kaká is over 23 and so would be 1 of just 3 players eligible to play for Brazil in that capacity, if he doesn't play there would surely be many other Brazilians over the age of 23 available.

    By the way, in your proposal you have "IBAF ranked #1 v. 8" and so on. Would this be ranking in terms of Olympic qualification or overall IBAF ranking? Does the IBAF have an overall ranking? I've never found any if it does exist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShawnC View Post
    Nice proposal Amazins.

    Although I must say that Kaká not being released for the Olympics is not really comparable to the MLB not releasing major players. Kaká is over 23 and so would be 1 of just 3 players eligible to play for Brazil in that capacity, if he doesn't play there would surely be many other Brazilians over the age of 23 available.

    By the way, in your proposal you have "IBAF ranked #1 v. 8" and so on. Would this be ranking in terms of Olympic qualification or overall IBAF ranking? Does the IBAF have an overall ranking? I've never found any if it does exist.
    Thanks. I cited the Kaká situation, because it was the most prominent. Brazil really wanted him to be a part of the Olympic team for their run at the Gold. As for the rankings, they are in terms of qualification, but as far as I know there aren't any IBAF rankings at this time.

  16. #16
    > Game 13 (winners of games 10 & 11)

    Game 13 (winners of games 9 & 10)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Wendt View Post
    > Game 13 (winners of games 10 & 11)

    Game 13 (winners of games 9 & 10)
    Thanks, I corrected it.

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    This thread is comatose. If there's no further posts this weekend, it will be unstickied.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalbright View Post
    This thread is comatose. If there's no further posts this weekend, it will be unstickied.
    Pardon me, but I didn’t expect this thread would have a high volume of posts. My request to sticky it was to:

    1) Maximize the VCO’s exposure on this forum.
    2) Provide an option to folks that want to actively contribute to International baseball.

  20. #20
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    I didn't expect a huge volume of posts, but IMO it doesn't merit being stickied if there's absolutely no activity for six weeks or more. And it won't be if there's not more substantial participation very soon, because I don't want the forum cluttered with stickies that have outlived their usefulness. I'm not saying the thread is useless, I'm just saying I don't see that the value in continuing to keep it stickied is high enough to continue to give it that status.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

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    IBAF reps Lausanne for Friday’s meeting w/ the IOC Programme Commission

    Curtis Granderson will be part of the six member delegation.

    (LAUSANNE, Switzerland) The International Baseball Federation (IBAF) will present its case for reinstatement in the 2016 Olympic Games this week in Lausanne. In a Friday morning meeting with the International Olympic Committee Programme Commission, the IBAF will have one hour to offer reasons as to why it should be one of the two sports added to the 2016 Olympic Programme when the vote is held in Copenhagen, Denmark in October 2009. The IBAF will be the first of seven federations to present on Friday, with its meeting scheduled to run from 8-9:00 a.m. (local).

    Source:http://www.ibaf.org/archives/news/452

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    Win a trip to Copenhagen

    I just got this email:
    WIN A TRIP TO COPENHAGEN!

    ONLY 1 MONTH TO GO!

    HAVE YOU MADE YOUR CONTRIBUTION TOTHE VIRTUAL OLYMPIC CONGRESS?
    IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY, CONTRIBUTE TODAY FOR YOURCHANCE TO WIN A TRIP TO COPENHAGEN!
    http://www.2009congress.olympic.org/...s/default.aspx
    PLEASE NOTE THAT THE DEADLINE FOR CONTRIBUTIONS IS 31 DECEMBER 2008
    The 2009 Congress Secretariat INTERNATIONAL OLYMPIC CONGRESSChâteau de Vidy1007 Lausanne, SwitzerlandTel: + 41 21 621 6111Email: 2009congress@olympic.org

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    A new deadline

    New email says:
    IN RESPONSE TO A NUMBER OF REQUESTS AND TO CONTINUE TO ENCOURAGE THE FLOW OF CONTRIBUTIONS, WE ARE PLEASED TO ANNOUNCED THAT THE IOC HAS DECIDED TO EXTEND THE DEADLINE FOR SUBMISSIONS TO THE VIRTUAL OLYMPIC CONGRESS.
    PLEASE NOTE THAT THE NEW DEADLINE FOR CONTRIBUTIONS IS THE 28 OF FEBRUARY 2009

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Wendt View Post
    Next door there is some discussion of baseball-softball federation.
    That is mainly in page 4 of ". . . MLB players in Olympics". For a little more, go back to page 3, #71.

    Federation is likely to be more help than hurt, given the "reality" (how real is it?) that men compete at baseball, women at softball.

    In the USA women's baseball is growing again, for this generation, schoolgirls in the 1990s and 2000s. If competitive women's baseball is significant in numerous Olympic nations, that will be a great obstacle; maybe even the re-growth here in the USA will be an insurmountable obstacle. Because women's baseball and women's softball are rival games and institutions.

    Ideally, it is easy for an outsider to say, there should be one federation covering baseball and softball, period, which would internally make the decision whether to hold Olympic-level competition in which varieties. Just as the track and field sports authorities decide internally whether to have 3000-km steeplechase for men, 3000-km flat race on the track for women. (I don't know how much that is loosely regulated at a higher level.)

    Practically there will be obstacles and baseball-softball federation may even be impossible. But federation should be explored. In my opinion the exploration of baseball-softball federation should be a high priority.
    Okay, this may be the thread for Olympic suggestions, but it's occurred to me that perhaps this idea that we had discussed earlier (about baseball-softball cooperation/federation) could be showcased before the 2016 Olympics in order to really sell the concept and make it easier for baseball and softball to get back in:

    Why not have this baseball-softball federation done for the WBC? I read somewhere that the next cricket twenty20 world championships (in England) is supposed to have a men's and women's tournament occurring at the same time, so why couldn't the same be done for the WBC? Have a parallel tournament (WSC) with the women's softball teams from the same 16 countries (or maybe less depending on how good or bad those teams are). From what I understand, that cricket tournament in England is supposed to have separate venues for the men's and women's group stages but the semi-finals and final for both the men and the women will be at the same venues (different times obviously). So what do people think of this? Perhaps for the 2013 WBC they could stage this with a view to replicating the concept for 2016 (hopefully in Chicago or Tokyo).

    Maybe I should post this as a separate thread...

  25. #25
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    Actually this is a good idea. I mentioned in a other thread that BB/Sb would higher their chances to get back in the O Programm if they work together and become one sport played be men and woman. At the moment both count as an extra sport.

    BUT

    at the moment there are majors problems.
    We have two governing bodys -IBAF and ISF
    ISF will go his way apart of IBAF and is asking BB/SB Federations to split from BB
    BB is also played by woman SB also by men - both are not big enough to force a good tournament. IOC is looking for sports played be men and woman at least on 3/4 of the world. They want to have pros playing etc.
    BB men - ok
    BB woman - no
    SB men - no
    SB woman - ok

    Also the WBC is (in my opinion) not an official tournament/title in the world of BB like WC, Continental Championships etc because it is an inivitational tournament with merchandising goals. MLB is not a federation. Their goal is not to develope BB or spread it to the world.
    The only thing you know is you never know and that you know for sure!

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